How many people use boosters for their 7-9 year olds? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 99 Old 10-14-2010, 06:27 AM
 
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Son is 6.5 and sits FF in a hbb which he loves. Daughter is 4 years 2 months and sits RF, sometimes FF in a hbb.

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Cognitive ability associated with the necessary attention span to use a booster correctly does not even begin to develop until at least 4 years old.
This is obviously not correct. When using a high back booster it's important to have a good belt fit. Very small children might therefore not fit well at this age but it's unusual. Being 4 and sitting properly in a booster is not difficult.

Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.

I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.

We also know that high back boosters are just as safe as harnessed seats for older kids, 4 and older. The Swedes who are 30 years ahead in car seat safety actually recommend against using any harnessed seats ff for safety reasons. Researchers never focus on harness vs. hbb simply because they know safety is similar.

Swedes move 4-years olds from RF to FF hbb around age 4 and the safety record can only be described as unbelievable.

Personally, I think the law is far from relevant (often also way behind and confusing). One should of course follow the law but exceed it. Parents here could forward face at any age, even at 6 months according to the law. Instead they keep them RF until age 4 or longer.

The law is the absolute minimum and often offer very poor protection for children.

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#92 of 99 Old 10-14-2010, 09:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
This is obviously not correct. When using a high back booster it's important to have a good belt fit. Very small children might therefore not fit well at this age but it's unusual. Being 4 and sitting properly in a booster is not difficult...

...I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.
I have a very active 4.5 yr old son who sits properly in his harnessed seat (Britax Frontier) and probably would sit properly in a HBB except for when he wouldn't. Kids are kids and will bend down to pick up something they drop in the car, or will fall asleep or will wiggle or...or...or... They are children and aren't always going to sit absolutely properly all the time.

Keeping my son in his harness is for the one freak time when he is not sitting absolutely perfectly and we have a crash; his life is worth way more to me than...well, anything. If he's alive, we can work through potential teasing by his friends. If he's alive, we can have his bones mended. If he's alive, he can learn to sit properly in a HBB.

I think your assertion that this is poor parenting is offensive and a cop-out, to be frank. You will never convince me that a HBB is as safe as a harnessed seat; NEVER. There are just too many variables involved with a HBB that can be eliminated with a harness so why wouldn't you?
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#93 of 99 Old 10-14-2010, 10:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.

I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.
I find this very judgemental. I know of many children who are wonderfully parented and are wonderful to be around who just don't have the consistent impulse control to sit in a HBB at age 4. At 4, my children (intellectually gifted and calm and centered) were still falling asleep in the van. My daughter is 6 and finally hit 40 pounds. In almost any HBB (few exceptions), she would submarine under the seatbelt due to her size and shape.

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We also know that high back boosters are just as safe as harnessed seats for older kids, 4 and older. The Swedes who are 30 years ahead in car seat safety actually recommend against using any harnessed seats ff for safety reasons. Researchers never focus on harness vs. hbb simply because they know safety is similar.
Actually, we don't know this. There are not studies showing this. We don't know either way. Stating that researchers don't focus on something because they already know it is not true. That would be extremely poor science. Research is not conducted when it isn't funded. Again, I ask you to provide the study, evidence, something, and I will gladly read it and check out the science behind it.

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Swedes move 4-years olds from RF to FF hbb around age 4 and the safety record can only be described as unbelievable.
Correlation does not guarantee causation.

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Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
Personally, I think the law is far from relevant (often also way behind and confusing). One should of course follow the law but exceed it. Parents here could forward face at any age, even at 6 months according to the law. Instead they keep them RF until age 4 or longer.

The law is the absolute minimum and often offer very poor protection for children.
I agree with this. Best practice is much more important than legal minimums.

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#94 of 99 Old 10-14-2010, 12:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post

Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.

Look, this is just patently untrue. I have a 5 year old who still regularly falls asleep in the car - it's not a parenting issue that he might fall asleep and slump over and not be position correctly in a high back booster (also sort of irrelevant as he isn't 40 lbs yet and can't use most boosters based on that fact alone, but his height and weight isn't related to his ability to stay awake in the car). Are there some four year olds that can sit correctly in a booster most of the time? Sure - my daughter outgrew her harnessed seat by weight and height well before 4 years old (she was an still is a tall child, and we couldn't afford a higher weight harnessed seat) and we switched her to a high back booster. We've never had a problem with her sitting correctly in the seat. But saying a four year old who won't sit still in the car or unfastens their seatbelt or falls asleep or drops a toy and impulsively bends over to grab it does so because their parent has a problem with "basic parenting" is not only untrue, but insulting.
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#95 of 99 Old 10-14-2010, 12:47 PM
 
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My 7 yr old is in a 5 pt harness and will be for as long as I can afford to keep him in one regardless of his weight or height.

BUT Fwiw he isn't neurotypical
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#96 of 99 Old 10-14-2010, 01:31 PM
 
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My 20 year old sister still uses a booster to drive. She doesn't pass the 5 step in most vehicle seats. I don't think she rides in a booster because she's too embarrassed but she drives with one. I'm the most lax person I know WRT seatbelts/carseats, etc. My 6 yo dd and my 3.5 yo ds are in high back boosters. I'll agree that 3.5 is way young for most kids to be in a booster. When we will be in the car for trips longer than an hour I borrow a seat and harness him, but for trips less than that he sits 100%. The main reason I'd borrow that seat is because the only time we drive for more than an hour would be to go to the beach 4 hours away and we leave at night. He'll fall asleep. My 1 yo dd is still RF and will until she hits 35 lbs (she's 26 now, so we've got a ways). Once she out grows that, she'll be in a hbb. I'm 5'7 and can't get the seatbelt to properly position across my chest. I've got huge knockers.

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#97 of 99 Old 10-14-2010, 02:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat.
Wow, that's pretty judgmental. I have a 5 year old who cannot sit decently in a booster, and I can assure you I know how to install her harnessed seat (which, BTW, is RF, but I digress). I do not "let her" sit poorly in her booster. She is simply not mature enough to not wriggle around. I suspect she'll be ready by around 6, which is very average in terms of booster readiness. No child under four is ever ready for a booster, ever, regardless of height or weight or 'cognitive ability'.

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#98 of 99 Old 10-15-2010, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
Sometime after puberty. As I wrote upthread, developed (internal/skeletal, not external/curvy) hips help hold the lap belt where it needs to be during a crash. I would allow my child to ride without a booster a few years after puberty. Otherwise, I would let her use the funky zebra-striped or pink leopard backless after age 10 or so.

ETA: I realize some people will find this excessive. That's okay. THIS is my parenting hill-to-die-on. I let her buy school lunch when she wants (ours is better than many, but it's still not like what I'd make at home). She gets computer time nearly every day. But she *will* ride in a booster for years to come.
I really like this. I feel the same way and you just helped make it clear to me.
By the way, do backless booster expire as well?

:Mama to 2 :
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#99 of 99 Old 10-15-2010, 01:27 AM
 
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Ds rode in a booster until 8 1/2. At 8 1/2 he passed the 5 step test, even though he was only 4'7". His height is in his torso, and our car is on the small side so his feet hit the floor. He had outgrown the booster. He actually was a little sad because he liked how the booster let him see better.

Dd is only 6 1/2, but will be in a booster for a good number of years. She's only 4'1" and I can't see her hitting 4'9" in the next 2-3 years. She's long in the torso like her brother, but not as tall.

Actually, ds is in the 92% for height and he just hit 4'9" this month! So, if my tall 9 1/2 year old is just 4'9" that tells me that most 9-10 year olds should be riding in a booster.

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