Talk me out of turning dd forward facing! Small update - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-06-2011, 07:45 PM
 
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One of my 3 children hated rear-facing.  I believe he was carsick (as I was as a child), and turning him to face forward at 1 did fix the problem immediately.  I say try all of the suggestions, and if all else fails, turn her for a few days and see.

 

Sometimes I think people don't differentiate between a full-on hysterical child, vs one who is boo-hooing and fussing some.  It is easy to say that you would never turn your child at age 1, if every single minute of every single car ride hasn't been pure hell since that child was born.  Or some say their child did scream and they still didn't turn her; I'm just not able to block it out and drive safely like they can.  So happy that my third baby likes to ride rear-facing, and he'll stay that way until 3 or 4.


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Old 02-06-2011, 08:06 PM
 
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My child was hysterical and generally inconsolable in the car until he was two.  At two, he started tolerating rides up to 15 minutes and slowly grew to accept longer rides (the iPod Touch helped tremendously).  So we didn't drive if we didn't have to.  We took the bus.  We walked.  For grocery trips, one of us sat in back with him and held his hand and sang silly songs while he screamed.  For longer trips, we'd stop frequently and someone would sit in back and try to distract him with books, silly songs, toys, etc.  Turning him FF just wasn't an option.  The legal minimum is just that--a minimum.  And it was established when seats didn't or barely even met that standard for weight/height.  We have much better seats now, so we can protect our kids better.  Safety tests, real life situations, and various experts all show/agree that RF as long as possible (much longer than 12 mo) is significantly safer. 

 

If you don't have to drive, then don't.  Yes, you'll miss out on some things, but your child will eventually tolerate the car.  A cushier seat, a more upright seat, a seat with no headwings--those may all help.  A different position in the car may help. 

 

http://carseatblog.com/5168/why-rear-facing-is-better-your-rf-link-guide/  <--all the stats you need.  The last video there is an animation which shows the difference between RF and FF at this age.


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Old 02-07-2011, 12:57 PM
 
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Something else to consider- would you have been comfortable turning her at 6months?  8 months?  12 months?  What if the law was 2yrs?  Would you still consider turning before 2? All are of course less safe than rf.   I have not really seen much data to show how much more unsafe- but the fact of the matter is that ff is dangerously less safe in a wreck than rf.

 

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Old 02-08-2011, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Continued thanks for the additional pms I've gotten giving me support to be a less than perfect mom and turn dd if it will really bring peace and sanity. Not because I need permission to make whatever choice is best for our family but because I don't think us moms do enough to support one another in being non-judgmental about it all... I also appreciate the validation that driving with a screaming child can feel very unsafe!

Anyways, I caved and gave dd the darn iPhone yesterday with a baby app I tried for free. As a parent whose child has never watched tv (except for glimpses of adult tv in other people's home), this was a hard pill to swallow but wowzers, it sure did make for a quiet drive!!! I cannot believe I'm already at the stage of bargaining with special treats but if its the price to pay for safety, then so be it. Hopefully, this will work for awhile or at least until she's interested enough in solids to have a special snack or something else.

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions. This parenting business sure isn't for sissies!!! ;0)
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:28 PM
 
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I'm glad to hear you got some much-needed peace in the car :)  My son was a screamer until very recently (and he still screams if we are in the car for more than an hour).  Now his favorite form of entertainment is taking off his boots, removing his socks, putting them on his hands, and having his hands "talk" to each other.  Of course he normally has a sister or two next to him to keep him company as well.  The Cascadian Farms version of FrootLoops are a huge hit in a pinch.


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Old 02-08-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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Forgive me is someone has already posted something similar, as I didn't have time to read all the replies.

 

Everyone always assumes (as did I) that RF is always safer, but that's not always the case. Your child's weight and height are very important factors to which is safest. For example my DS has ALWAYS been off the charts (in the 100+ percentile for height and weight) and according to several articles I've read, I should have switched him to FF prior to his first birthday because he was too tall. Safety and FF/RF also depends on the type of car seat you have. A general rule of thumb (or so I've been told) is where your child's feet rest in the RF position. Do her heals rest past the edge of the car seat base? If so, she's too tall for that particular seat and could hurt her legs badly in the event of an accident.

 

Also, most (not all) car seats are meant to be reclined to a certain level in the RF position. My DS HATED being in that position and strained his neck in an effort to sit up straight. That's dangerous too. If your child's size and car seat are accommodating - by all means, keep them FF as long as possible. If not, you may need to decide which risks are riskier. Not an easy chore!

 

FF is MUCH easier, and much more pleasant for my DS, so I understand the temptation. Maybe there are some cool toys and/or larger mirrors that you could attach to the backseat to keep her entertained a little longer? I use to bring my son's lacing beads with us, he'd hold one end of the string and I'd slide beads, toys and other goodies to him. He loved it.

 

Good luck!

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Old 02-08-2011, 03:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NaaNaa View Post

Forgive me is someone has already posted something similar, as I didn't have time to read all the replies.

 

Everyone always assumes that RF is always safer, but that's not always the case. Your child's weight and height are very important factors to which is safest. For example my DS has ALWAYS been off the charts (in the 120+ percentile for height and weight) and according to several articles I've read, I should have switched him to FF prior to his first birthday because he was too tall. Safety and FF/RF also depends on the type of car seat you have. A general rule of thumb is where your child's feet rest in the RF position. Do her heals rest past the edge of the car seat base? If so, she's too tall for RF and could hurt her legs badly in the event of an accident (you can always shop around for different car seats).

 

Also, most car seats are meant to be reclined to a certain level in the RF position. My DS HATED being in that position and strained his neck in an effort to sit up straight. That's dangerous too. If your child's size and car seat are accommodating - by all means, keep them FF as long as possible. If not, you may need to decide which risks are riskier. Not an easy chore!

 

FF is MUCH easier, and much more pleasant for my DS, so I understand the temptation. Maybe there are some cool toys and/or larger mirrors that you could attach to the backseat to keep her entertained a little longer? I use to bring my son's lacing beads with us, he'd hold one end of the string and I'd slide beads, toys and other goodies to him. He loved it.

 

Good luck!


I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not true. A child's height matters in rear facing only in terms of where their heads hit on the top of the seat and where the straps of the seat are in comparison to their shoulders, which will vary from seat to seat and child to child (depending upon if they are long or short waisted, two children of the same height could outgrow the same seat at different times. Even if it is true that a child is more likely to break their legs in an accident when their legs touch the back of the seat (and I'm not sure that has been established scientifically), they are more likely to endure spinal injuries when forward facing. I'd certainly prefer my child to break their legs than their spine.

OP, I'm glad you found something that will keep her facing rearward longer. Even though I would have supported a decision to turn her (as I said upthread, I got into an accident with a child who screamed int he car!), if you can keep her calm while rear-facing, that's just great. I hope it keeps helping!
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NaaNaa View Post

Forgive me is someone has already posted something similar, as I didn't have time to read all the replies.

 

Everyone always assumes that RF is always safer, but that's not always the case. Your child's weight and height are very important factors to which is safest. For example my DS has ALWAYS been off the charts (in the 120+ percentile for height and weight) and according to several articles I've read, I should have switched him to FF prior to his first birthday because he was too tall. Safety and FF/RF also depends on the type of car seat you have. A general rule of thumb is where your child's feet rest in the RF position. Do her heals rest past the edge of the car seat base? If so, she's too tall for RF and could hurt her legs badly in the event of an accident (you can always shop around for different car seats).

 

Also, most car seats are meant to be reclined to a certain level in the RF position. My DS HATED being in that position and strained his neck in an effort to sit up straight. That's dangerous too. If your child's size and car seat are accommodating - by all means, keep them FF as long as possible. If not, you may need to decide which risks are riskier. Not an easy chore!

 

FF is MUCH easier, and much more pleasant for my DS, so I understand the temptation. Maybe there are some cool toys and/or larger mirrors that you could attach to the backseat to keep her entertained a little longer? I use to bring my son's lacing beads with us, he'd hold one end of the string and I'd slide beads, toys and other goodies to him. He loved it.

 

Good luck!


I'm sorry, this is extremely inaccurate.  First, there is no such thing as being in the "120+th percentile".  That's just not even possible ;)  

 

Next, there are seats that can accommodate very tall children (40+inches).  The child's leg length has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on their ability to RF.  A child is more in danger of leg injuries being FF than they are being RF.  Also, all convertibles can be installed more upright than the newborn 45* angle.  


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Old 02-08-2011, 03:43 PM
 
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Actually, a child's legs are much more likely to be injured forward-facing.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17497521&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

Even children in the 120th percentile (which is statistically impossible) are safest RFing to the limits of their seats.  Larger children may reach those limits earlier, but there are very very few children who will max out a convertible before age two.

 

ETA:  cross-post and we made the same points!


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Old 02-08-2011, 05:18 PM
 
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To the OP: I am the most anti-media-for-children person you're ever likely to meet. I am also generally opposed to bribes. But in cases of health and safety, where the child's opinion and what I know objectively is best come in conflict-- absolutely, I will sweeten the deal. Now, I also understand turning them when the situation becomes unbearable-- my DS has really extreme motion sickness issues while rear-facing. After cleaning vomit off him, three seats, and three kids (three across in one backseat) I finally turned him around, before he'd really outgrown his seat RFing. His twin stayed RFing a whole year longer. To me, the tradeoff was clear-- he was vomiting six or eight times a week, and that's dangerous. FFing, he now vomits only in stop-and-go traffic, or on very windy roads-- with some careful use of candied ginger and light snacks, we've got it down to twice a month or so. He was 23 months when I turned him.

But in the case of protest and crying (and I had a carseat screamer, and I KNOW how that is)-- I think I'd do everything I could think of, before turning the child. I'd install a DVD player, before I'd turn a child in the second year. I'd offer lollipops, every single day if necessary. Whatever it took, and I wouldn't turn the child until I'd exhausted the possibilities. (Well, within reason-- lest you go thinking I'm going to go offering wine and cigars! lol.gif). To me, the danger is just too big. Car wrecks aren't rare, and the research is so clear on rear-facing being so much safer.

Well, maybe not lollipops-- thinking about that, that's not a good idea, especially for a very little one. Choking, right? But you get the idea-- special snacks that ordinarily I don't offer.

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Old 02-08-2011, 05:21 PM
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Ok so I am not going to tell you to turn her or not. Totally your decision. Full disclosure DD is going to be 20 months in a few days and I do sometimes turn her forward facing and have been since she was about 17 months. DD hated the car seat from day 1. Screamed every time we put her in it and more than once I drove home with tears on my face from her hysterics.  I think it is really easy for people to sit and type that you should just deal with your kid screaming and learn to ignore, I actually read someone suggested wearing ear plugs?? Seriously? I would never ever do that. What if your DD started gagging or choking or something and you had no idea because you didn't hear it?

 

I know a lot of you mamas will understand what I mean when I say it is physically painful to hear your LO shrieking their heads off. I visit my mother often with DD and they live over 3 hours away. The car rides when she was around a year and still screaming her head off the entire drive were absolute torture for me and her as well. She was panicking and truly hysterical. 

 

Now that DD is older she is much much more happy in the car and she does most of the time ride RF. If we are having a really bad trip though and she is really miserable I will stop the car and turn her because for my part I am driving far more dangerously as I try to distract her when she is hysterical in the back. Forward Facing my DD is happy as a clam. She sits and watches the vehicles and buildings go by, not a grumpy peep out of her.

 

I will say though that when she was going forward facing one afternoon we were in the most minor of fender benders and the only thought I had was panic because she was forward facing (maybe 19 months old). I have cut down on the FF since that incident but I still do it if I have to.

 

We all know the stats but sometimes you just have to do what works best for your family. Good luck. Oh as a final note, I myself would not turn a 1 year old FF until they were a bit older but I certainly won't judge you for doing what you have to do!

 

 

 

 

 

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Old 02-08-2011, 10:01 PM
 
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I'm not claiming to be an expert... I agree RF is safer is MOST ways. I based my decision to switch to FF based on the strong suggestions of our ped and a friend who works for a major car seat manufacturer (both whom warned me about the position of their feet). That was news to me as well.

 

Oh and the 120 was a typo. That two should have been a 0 for 100+. My DS was always off the charts that my ped thought it would be fun to create an extended version based on her clients. My 12 month old surpassed every single one of her 24 month old patients in height and weight. If there could be a 120%, I'm sure he would qualify. :-)

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Old 02-08-2011, 10:47 PM
 
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That was misinformation on their part.  There is absolutely no reason to turn FF once the feet hit the back of the seat.  


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Old 02-09-2011, 08:11 AM
 
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That was misinformation on their part.  There is absolutely no reason to turn FF once the feet hit the back of the seat.  



Yeah that.  Statistically leg injuries are more likely ff.  So if you're truly concerned about leg injuries in a crash, turn the child back rf if they still fit.

 

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Old 02-09-2011, 09:33 AM
 
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Interesting thread. I knew RF was better, but didn't really know why. I went to youtube and watched a few videos. TBH, I could have done without the schlocky Sarah McLachlan music meant to (successfully) evoke a certain emotion in me and I definitely could have done without the scare tactics of pictures of real children with broken necks (OK, child), but the stats were there & I did appreciate the crash test dummies footage. I do get tired of the emotional manipulation though...why do people think we won't do what's right for our children unless they terrify us into it? I'm left feeling a little ill, but resolved that I will keep my LO RF. I was thinking about turning her when she turned one. 

 

Sorry for the hijack. Just thought you fierce Mama Bears out there would like to know you have educated at least one mother. :) Thankfully, my LO is OK in the carseat & doesn't kick up too much of a fuss back there.

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Old 02-09-2011, 09:42 AM
 
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I hate all the tug-at-your-heartstrings stuff in those videos, too. But like you I really appreciated the chance to actually view the crash tests--- in the one where they show you the child forward and rear facing, it's so easy to see how much better a job a rear-facing seat does of protecting the spine and neck. To me, that was what was most convincing-- seeing it in action, for myself. I turned my DD1 at 16 months-- I didn't know any better, then, and the seats had much lower rear-facing limits than they do now. Even at 16 months, she was the oldest baby I knew who was still rear-facing. By the time my other two arrived, I'd learned a bit more.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting thread. I knew RF was better, but didn't really know why. I went to youtube and watched a few videos. TBH, I could have done without the schlocky Sarah McLachlan music meant to (successfully) evoke a certain emotion in me and I definitely could have done without the scare tactics of pictures of real children with broken necks (OK, child), but the stats were there & I did appreciate the crash test dummies footage. I do get tired of the emotional manipulation though...why do people think we won't do what's right for our children unless they terrify us into it? I'm left feeling a little ill, but resolved that I will keep my LO RF. I was thinking about turning her when she turned one. 



 



Sorry for the hijack. Just thought you fierce Mama Bears out there would like to know you have educated at least one mother. smile.gif Thankfully, my LO is OK in the carseat & doesn't kick up too much of a fuss back there.




 

not hijacking at all. I had no idea what a hot topic this was! I haven't watched that video because I cannot stand the emotional manipulation bit. Just give me the numbers and I'll make a well-informed decision that best suits my family. What I want to know is, if RFing is so much safer, why isn't there more info about in the mainstream parenting world? Where's the back-to-sleep-like campaign for RFing?!
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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My son (17 mo) is a screamer too- always has been- and he has quite the set of lungs.  His scream is piercing and makes me cringe.  But we've managed to keep him RFing by doing a few things.  First, I moved his seat from the center position to next to the window.  He can see out the window and is a little happier.  I also bought a DVD player (a Sylvania one at Costco) that comes with velcro straps to secure it to the headrest.  That works in a pinch.  I also keep a stack of his favorite books next to his seat in the car.

 

Personally, I would do pretty much anything before turning him FFing.  I know how it feels to dread car rides because you know your LO will scream.  I know what it's like to have to wrestle him into the seat (we call it his alligator roll).  We're pretty much just trying to limp to age 2 around here.   

 

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Old 02-09-2011, 07:44 PM
 
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not hijacking at all. I had no idea what a hot topic this was! I haven't watched that video because I cannot stand the emotional manipulation bit. Just give me the numbers and I'll make a well-informed decision that best suits my family. What I want to know is, if RFing is so much safer, why isn't there more info about in the mainstream parenting world? Where's the back-to-sleep-like campaign for RFing?!


I'm starting to see the campaign. At least 3 if not more of my 16 MO's well baby visits included a talk on how much safer they are RFing and they recommend a minimum of 2 years. This was more than one doc (we go to a large practice), and I was happy to see that they are up to date and really making sure all the parents know.


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Old 02-10-2011, 12:10 AM
 
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not hijacking at all. I had no idea what a hot topic this was! I haven't watched that video because I cannot stand the emotional manipulation bit. Just give me the numbers and I'll make a well-informed decision that best suits my family. What I want to know is, if RFing is so much safer, why isn't there more info about in the mainstream parenting world? Where's the back-to-sleep-like campaign for RFing?!


I think it's starting. the AAP changed their recommendation not too long ago to RFing longer, but it really wasn't that long ago that we started keeping babies RFing longer than 6 months (sometime in between 16 and 19 years ago), there are still people who can't get the idea of over 1 and over 20lbs. it's going to be a gradual battle. (there are still people who disagree with back-to-sleep, and that campaign was started a long time ago)


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Old 02-10-2011, 07:10 AM
 
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not hijacking at all. I had no idea what a hot topic this was! I haven't watched that video because I cannot stand the emotional manipulation bit. Just give me the numbers and I'll make a well-informed decision that best suits my family. What I want to know is, if RFing is so much safer, why isn't there more info about in the mainstream parenting world? Where's the back-to-sleep-like campaign for RFing?!


I watched the video with the sound on mute.  That way I was able to see the slides with the numbers, and watch the crash dummies without the sappy music.

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Old 02-10-2011, 09:16 AM
 
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I actually read someone suggested wearing ear plugs?? Seriously? I would never ever do that. What if your DD started gagging or choking or something and you had no idea because you didn't hear it?


smile.gif  You would be able to hear that.  Ear plugs simply turn down the volume some, they don't make you deaf.  And as I said, I was just throwing that out there as a possibility.  Brainstorming and all that.


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Old 02-10-2011, 06:40 PM
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I actually read someone suggested wearing ear plugs?? Seriously? I would never ever do that. What if your DD started gagging or choking or something and you had no idea because you didn't hear it?


smile.gif  You would be able to hear that.  Ear plugs simply turn down the volume some, they don't make you deaf.  And as I said, I was just throwing that out there as a possibility.  Brainstorming and all that.



ok we use professional grade ear muffs and plugs in this household because we go to a lot of concerts and while I know that they tone down the volume and buffer sounds for your ears I'm going to have to disagree. If someone is choking exactly how much sound are they making? Isn't it in fact a pronounced lack of sound, so no I don't think wearing ear plugs would ever be safe in the car to drown out a kids screaming. My kid used to be a terrible car screamer and I still never considered ear plugs.

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Old 02-11-2011, 08:58 AM
 
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not hijacking at all. I had no idea what a hot topic this was! I haven't watched that video because I cannot stand the emotional manipulation bit. Just give me the numbers and I'll make a well-informed decision that best suits my family. What I want to know is, if RFing is so much safer, why isn't there more info about in the mainstream parenting world? Where's the back-to-sleep-like campaign for RFing?!


1. because we are still trying to get parents to rearface to a minimum of a 1 and 20, there are still too many people saying "they are 10months old, close enough" or " well my 6month old is 22lbs already"....

2. we ARE making improvements to suggest kids rearface longer - we now have seats in the U.S. that rearface to 40lbs and 45lbs, these were not around just a short time ago.  

3.  Many many parents base their carseat use on what their pediatrician says.  But pediatricians have ZERO carseat training, and arent updated on changes (rearface to the limits) so often make totally false recomondations.   

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Old 02-12-2011, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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3.  Many many parents base their carseat use on what their pediatrician says.  But pediatricians have ZERO carseat training, and arent updated on changes (rearface to the limits) so often make totally false recomondations.   



 


Just like how pediatricians have no education in lactation! Yet we our culture continues to regard them as experts in all things child...
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I actually read someone suggested wearing ear plugs?? Seriously? I would never ever do that. What if your DD started gagging or choking or something and you had no idea because you didn't hear it?


smile.gif  You would be able to hear that.  Ear plugs simply turn down the volume some, they don't make you deaf.  And as I said, I was just throwing that out there as a possibility.  Brainstorming and all that.



ok we use professional grade ear muffs and plugs in this household because we go to a lot of concerts and while I know that they tone down the volume and buffer sounds for your ears I'm going to have to disagree. If someone is choking exactly how much sound are they making? Isn't it in fact a pronounced lack of sound, so no I don't think wearing ear plugs would ever be safe in the car to drown out a kids screaming. My kid used to be a terrible car screamer and I still never considered ear plugs.


Not much!!  Choking can definitely be a silent thing!!  I'm with you LDavis.

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Old 02-12-2011, 04:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post

I actually read someone suggested wearing ear plugs?? Seriously? I would never ever do that. What if your DD started gagging or choking or something and you had no idea because you didn't hear it?


smile.gif  You would be able to hear that.  Ear plugs simply turn down the volume some, they don't make you deaf.  And as I said, I was just throwing that out there as a possibility.  Brainstorming and all that.



ok we use professional grade ear muffs and plugs in this household because we go to a lot of concerts and while I know that they tone down the volume and buffer sounds for your ears I'm going to have to disagree. If someone is choking exactly how much sound are they making? Isn't it in fact a pronounced lack of sound, so no I don't think wearing ear plugs would ever be safe in the car to drown out a kids screaming. My kid used to be a terrible car screamer and I still never considered ear plugs.


Not much!!  Choking can definitely be a silent thing!!  I'm with you LDavis.


Quiet baby in the car = no need for earplugs, yes?


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Quiet baby in the car = no need for earplugs, yes?



Yeah, quiet baby, no earplugs.  But even with a loud baby, or screaming baby, I wouldn't recommend wearing earplugs.

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