If you must get baby somewhere and don't have a car seat? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 107 Old 07-14-2011, 05:38 AM
 
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AgaIn, personal attacks make you look foolish. You are of course welcome to ignore safety information, but name calling the person who provides it doesn't somehow make it safe to do something that isn't. I realize it's a defense mechanism so I'm choosing not to take it personally.

As for 'I haven't heard anything about that so it can't be true!'.....uh, ok? You are incorrect.


All children under 40 lbs should be restrained in an approved restraint when the fasten seatbelt light is on, same as everyone over 40 should be in a belt or appropriate restraint. Take off, landing, turbulence.

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#92 of 107 Old 07-14-2011, 05:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

Anyone who can get in a car is 'privileged'.  Anyone who can buy an airline ticket is privileged.   

 

I find the whole, "Oh, I can't afford to fly if I have to buy my baby a ticket" is completely disingenous.  If it was the law (as it will be within a few years, a lot of us are working very hard to get rid of the lap-baby loophole and the FAA is completely onboard), you'd find a way to pay for it if you're flying in the first place, as you will the moment your baby turns two.  

 

The number of people who stop flying when their child turns two, but flew anywhere and everywhere up to 23 months is pretty much non-existent.     My guess is, if you were legally required to, you would.  

 

You are, of course, completely welcome (for the time being, until the law changes) welcome to disregard my advice, but making personal attacks simply makes you look foolish. 

 

And if you can scrape up for X months to buy 1 or 2 tickets, you can scrape up for X number of more tickets to buy the third. 



What if  it's an emergency you don't have a lot of lead time to save the tickets? My husband's grandfather died last year and it was totally unexpected.We had actually JUST been out there to visit him two weeks prior and he was in great shape, two weeks later he was dead and we had to scrape together 1,000+ to fly out for the funeral. We checked the car seat at the gate and the baby flew on our laps.

 

 

 

Anyway last winter we had a huge blizzard. My sister in law got roped into closing at her store and had mother in law go and pick her up. They both got stranded in traffic and it took them close to 4 fours to to get home, what is normally a 20 minute drive. Since my husband and I live closest to our then 18 month old neice's daycare we ended up picking her up from daye care. Since we didn't have a car seat at the time husband just buckled the baby in the back seat of his two door and drove very very carefully. It wasn't an ideal situation (really it was a nerve-wracking one) but it's not a choice I'd agonize over. The day care was closing, we couldn't just camp out on the sidewalk.

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#93 of 107 Old 07-14-2011, 07:30 AM
 
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Airlines are already suffering financially. Several airlines have filed losses for the past several years. Its no secret that they are not doing well. If they add this new regulation, I can imagine that it will only negatively impact their financial gain. They are a company after all, what exactly do they have to gain from this?






I remember when my stepgrandpa died when I was little and we lived in Oklahoma. My parents flew back to Kentucky for a week to deal with it, and I had to stay with a friend of theirs. I thought it was SO unfair that my sister (under 2) got to go but I didnt. My parents could not afford to fly me there.

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#94 of 107 Old 07-14-2011, 09:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Maedze View Post




All children under 40 lbs should be restrained in an approved restraint when the fasten seatbelt light is on, same as everyone over 40 should be in a belt or appropriate restraint. Take off, landing, turbulence.


So how about on international carriers where car seats aren't allowed? 

 

And being  condescending is a defense mechanism so I won't take it personally!

 

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#95 of 107 Old 07-14-2011, 09:57 AM
 
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To the op, I think you did your best under the circumstances. Life is not perfect and there are risks in everything. I've had to put the car seats in a taxi when my car broke down and the driver looked at me like I was crazy!
On the plane discussion, I recently flew with my toddler so that my father could meet her for the first and last time and so I could say goodbye. It was a 30 hour journey each way with a total of 4 flights. On 2 I managed to get her a seat (I had a car seat), on 2 she was a lap baby. If I had bought her a ticket it would have been $2000. I know some people would have put the ticket on credit, others would have chosen not to go, but for me and my family, I think I made the best choice.
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#96 of 107 Old 07-14-2011, 10:51 AM
 
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Absolutley.  You can only do so m uch and what happened was out of your control.  I'm a carseat nerd with the best of them but you were literally stranded. 

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#97 of 107 Old 07-14-2011, 11:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by amberskyfire View Post

I really like the police idea. That is fab! Thank you! I honestly think the police would just tell me not to worry about getting in the shuttle the one time without a car seat, but it sounds like an awesome first option and it certainly can't hurt to ask. Or beg. :) I'll keep that in mind next time. At the very least, it would probably be safer to ride in the police vehicle than in the shuttle if they didn't happen to have a car seat they could provide. Hawaii towns are tiny and I don't know that they keep them for that kind of use or not.



Actually calling the police is literally the best option yet. The police are not ever going to tell you to get into a car without a carseat, because it's against the law (for good reason). They're never going to tell you to break the law. If you're stuck where you've been kicked out of the airport, can't stay on their grounds, and don't have a safe or legal way to transport your child, you should definitely call the police (not 911, just the police). It's possible that they DO have carseats, or they might be able to give you some advice as to get to where you need to go safely and legally.

 

I'm standing by my suggestion that if you're not going to buy your kid a seat, you should gate check your seat. Even a mishandled seat is better than holding a baby on your lap.


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#98 of 107 Old 07-14-2011, 12:42 PM
 
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sorry to be a serial poster, but I am just blown away by the insinuation that the op should have stood outside all night long with her baby.  WHy would someone suggest that??!



Because the shaming will somehow make her a better mother and help her make better decisions someday.

 

good grief.  I get so tired of the dogpiling.

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#99 of 107 Old 07-15-2011, 11:56 AM
 
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The last time we got stranded overnight because of a missed flight, we were surprised to learn that the airport had a big stash of disposable diapers for just that situation. We mentioned to the person who rescheduled our flight that we didn't have anything with us, and she sent us down to baggage claim where they gave us toiletry kits and several diapers. They had all different sizes, even.

 

OP, I would have done what you did. I would have been nervous, but the idea that you should have spent the night on a slab of concrete with nothing to eat or drink, no access to a toilet or handwashing facilities, and nothing to keep tropical insects away is completely ludicrous.


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#100 of 107 Old 07-15-2011, 04:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

AgaIn, personal attacks make you look foolish. You are of course welcome to ignore safety information, but name calling the person who provides it doesn't somehow make it safe to do something that isn't. I realize it's a defense mechanism so I'm choosing not to take it personally.

As for 'I haven't heard anything about that so it can't be true!'.....uh, ok? You are incorrect.


All children under 40 lbs should be restrained in an approved restraint when the fasten seatbelt light is on, same as everyone over 40 should be in a belt or appropriate restraint. Take off, landing, turbulence.


And your condescending tone doesn't make you look elitist?  Uh...ok?

 

I realize that it's merely a defense mechanism, so I'm choosing not to take it personally.  HTH!!

 

OP - I would have done the exact same thing you did.  Sometimes when you're a parent, you have to make the best of two not-so-great choices.

 

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#101 of 107 Old 07-15-2011, 05:08 PM
 
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Just curious about something. In the US do you have the little seatbelts for lap babies that attach to the parent's seatbelt? In Australia I've never seen a carseat on a plane. Not sure if it's not permitted or whether it's just never done. But everyone who has a child on their lap has to use the baby seatbelt whenever the seatbelt sign is illuminated.

 

There's a picture of what I'm talking about here

 

 

ETA - just had a look at the website of one of our major airlines. They do recommend carseats are used. Clearly no-one heeds that advice here.


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#102 of 107 Old 07-17-2011, 07:22 AM
 
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The website seems to favor buckling a toddler/young toddler into a regular seatbelt over wearing the child in a wrap and buckling yourself in.  After watching the video, it looks like the real problem with the wrap is that it just shreds on impact, sending the baby flying into the interior of the car, into the seatback, into the windshield.  So it's really no better than holding the baby on your lap.  I guess if the baby is buckled into a seatbelt, at least it helps somewhat to prevent the baby from being ejected from the car or hitting the interior of the car. 

 


 

 



Thanks yes I saw that.  but there seemed to be no info on least worst in a no seat situation for a baby.  The wrap did shred on impact but that was obviously no worse than holding in arms and it seems to me that you might be in a slower accident the wrap might not shred but a baby in arms might still be thrown out of arms.  only a guess but no-on seems to have least bad opotion data for an unrestrained baby, hopefully becuase it happens so rarley.

 


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#103 of 107 Old 07-17-2011, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Maedze View Post


I can understand why you would feel this way, but there's actually a significant difference in transport and treatment in the wholesale and retail world versus and airline.   

Firstly, almost all car seats come packaged in boxes, which, believe it or not, do an excellent job of protecting the restraints.  The design of a cardboard box is such that it absorbs forces quite well (ever seen a cardboard box with the corner dinged up, and the material almost accordioned in on itself?  Energy absorption!)     The Sceneras do come in plastic travel bags, but are boxed together for transport to the store.

 

And yes, shippers have a vested interest in getting an undamaged product to a store.  Shipments are handled relatively carefully.  If goods show up to a store regularly damaged, the shipping company stands to lose a LOT of money.  Meanwhile, baggage handlers, and airlines, do not care.   Ever had to deal with lost or damaged goods?  You're lucky if you can get someone to listen respectfully to you, and if you do, the chances of you getting financial recompensation are slim, and usually not at all the value of what was destroyed. 

 

End of story is that car seats should not be checked, they should be used on the plane, and lap babies are extremely dangerous to both themselves and everyone around them, and every major safety organization (the FAA included!) recommends that all children under 40 lbs be secured in a restraint on the plane.  

 

When parents come to our station with seats they've checked, we advise them that the seats need to be disposed of and replaced with new ones. 



 



ALL non-secured items on a plane are dangerous in the event of severe turbulence. I don't see any tethers on the hot coffee pots on the service cart...or mandatory velcro restraints on laptops, etc.

 

And you must live in the land of Trees 'O Money...first the "If you can't afford a baby ticket you can't afford to fly," then the "OHMYGOSH, your baby's seat was checked??? It's now a death trap! If you love your baby you have to buy a new one!!!" Ya know, like $200 bucks is no biggie. If you are going to dish out that sort of advice in today's economy, I suggest you also offer to buy the seat for them. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

Anyone who can get in a car is 'privileged'.  Anyone who can buy an airline ticket is privileged.   

 

I find the whole, "Oh, I can't afford to fly if I have to buy my baby a ticket" is completely disingenous.  If it was the law (as it will be within a few years, a lot of us are working very hard to get rid of the lap-baby loophole and the FAA is completely onboard), you'd find a way to pay for it if you're flying in the first place, as you will the moment your baby turns two.  

 

The number of people who stop flying when their child turns two, but flew anywhere and everywhere up to 23 months is pretty much non-existent.     My guess is, if you were legally required to, you would.  

 

You are, of course, completely welcome (for the time being, until the law changes) welcome to disregard my advice, but making personal attacks simply makes you look foolish. 

 

And if you can scrape up for X months to buy 1 or 2 tickets, you can scrape up for X number of more tickets to buy the third. 


wave.gif 

 

Well, now you can say there is at least ONE such person.  We flew with DS1 on six different trips between the ages of 6 weeks-2 years to visit family across country. We haven't been able to afford to fly since. So he hasn't seen his grandpa in over 2 years. 

 

And overall, you are just coming across as pretty mean and elitist to everyone on this thread. HTH!

 

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#104 of 107 Old 07-24-2011, 03:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

A car seat that has been gate checked needs to be treated as a car seat that you found on the side of the road or bought at a yardsale. 

 

Absolutely, unequivocally, NOT true.  People, please don't think you can't use your gate checked car seat.
 

 

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#105 of 107 Old 07-27-2011, 12:40 AM
 
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I probably would have done exactly what you did. Staying outside the airport was not an option because (trust me, Ive heard it happened) they would have called the police on you. I doubt it would have been good to have your baby at a police station either and then once again you would have been stuck in a situation of no carseat and a car ride.

 

I have been on airlines that don't allow car seats so even though I usually (all but once) buy my children their own tickets there are times I DON"T have a carseat when I get off the plane since I wasn't allowed to bring it on with me. I could see a similar situation happening if I didn't make one of my connections.

 

As for not traveling if you can't buy your baby a ticket. The decision to buy your child a ticket or not is a personal one. Not everyone can afford to buy their child their own ticket. Sometime early next year I'll most likely be traveling with my baby as a lap child because of the cost of a last minute ticket. I won't know until maybe a week out when Im going to be flying and Im not missing my husband getting back after 9 months overseas because I don't want to fly a very short flight with a lap child.

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#106 of 107 Old 07-27-2011, 02:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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In my opinion, the risk of flying with a lap baby is so low, that it's not something I consider if you really can't afford it. I do things that are much riskier every day, like get in my car or take DD swimming with me in the ocean with all the other mamas and their babies. Things happen, but if something has such a miniscule risk attached to it, I'm not going to put it above my child ever seeing their family again. If it was really that much of a risk, I wouldn't get on the plane in the first place. I'm a stickler for safety, but that's just so unlikely. We flew and I kept my daughter in the wrap the entire time where she slept tightly against me except when she needed a diaper change.

 

Getting into a car without a car seat, on the other hand, worries me. Next time, I'll call the police department and ask them to help me. I love that idea!

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#107 of 107 Old 07-29-2011, 01:12 AM
 
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DH and I are expecting DD in Nov... I never really thought about flying w/ her.  I grew up flying on commercial airlines ( my father worked for one.. so it was dirt cheap.  It was an amazing experiance as a child)  my father also has a private liscense.  So to say I haven't spent my fair share up in the air... well I really don't see where either side is wrong.. I've been on many a flight next to a very content baby in mom's arms, and tbh more flights where the child is screaming because it's well intentioned mother has it strapped into a seat.  imo the screaming child is the more at risk one in general ( I've heard of all sorts of horrible things to "quiet them" includeing OTC drugs.  when simply saying "Hold them if the seat-belt sign is on").  But.. haveing said that I also will not fly w/out a restraint devise for my child, I've been threw some bad turbulance.  It is best imo more often the not to "Have it, because if you don't you'll need it".  having said that... I honestly can't begrudge someone who feels differently. 

 

OP I think given the circumstances you deffinately did the right thing... Lesson learned... Always ALWAYS have a carry-on w/ needed things.  I always pack a small bag w/ the bare essentials in-case of a lay-over or something bad happens.  which I'm sure will become a larger "small bag"  And I can't think of many circumstances where I would willingly fly 'nore drive w/out a restraint devise in tow.  But I woulnd't freak out if I had reason not to.. I'de proballly be freaking out over whatever caused the instance to begin with.

 

I can not think of any circumstance where sitting outside all night w/ a small child is better then a short car-ride w/out a seat.  I'm actually very surprized the airline would leave you in such a state.  I've been put up more 'n once by them for a missed flight ( that was their fault not mine)

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