Air travel Q's (gate check carseat on American)? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 50 Old 09-11-2011, 01:13 PM
 
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I would think that the person that wouldn't check a carseat also wouldn't fly with a lap baby. They would buy the baby a ticket and use the carseat on the plane.
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#32 of 50 Old 09-11-2011, 08:43 PM
 
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I would think that the person that wouldn't check a carseat also wouldn't fly with a lap baby. They would buy the baby a ticket and use the carseat on the plane.


If you are travelling with a lap baby and don't want to check a carseat, you could try and borrow one from a trusted person at your destination.  Personally, I would check it, and just inspect for visible damage.

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#33 of 50 Old 09-12-2011, 08:33 PM
 
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Those of us who won't check a carseat either buy a seat for all family members (including babies) or take other forms of transportation (car, bus, train).  If I can't afford to buy my child a seat, I can't afford to fly.


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#34 of 50 Old 09-12-2011, 08:51 PM
 
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well i still feel perfectly fine flying with my twins as lap babies and gate checking my carseats i on the other hand would not feel good about using rental car child seats.

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#35 of 50 Old 09-12-2011, 10:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocelyndale View Post

Those of us who won't check a carseat either buy a seat for all family members (including babies) or take other forms of transportation (car, bus, train).  If I can't afford to buy my child a seat, I can't afford to fly.



Traveling via car, especially long distances, with your baby in your pristine, never-been-gate-checked carseat is putting your baby at MUCH greater risk of injury and death than flying with that baby on your lap. 

 

This whole "If you can't afford a seat for your baby you can't afford to fly" bit has been beaten to death around here. rolleyes.gif And each time someone brings it up, it's just as patronizing and judge-y as the first time. 

 

Seriously...life happens and we all can't always do THE IDEAL THING.

 

The economy sucks. People with degrees are out of work for years.  More people in this country are on food stamps than ever before. Air travel is expensive and people sometimes live far away from friends and family. Relatives across the country die. Parents get sick. Sisters get injured and need help. Sometimes you have to travel with a baby (especially last minute) and CAN'T afford to buy a ticket.  

 

 

 

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#36 of 50 Old 09-13-2011, 04:21 AM
 
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That argument doesn't make sense because once the baby turns 2, you have to buy them a seat. So there goes the "affordability" question. Lap babies aren't an option after that point. So if anyone in the family gets sick or a parent has to travel in a hurry, they're going to have to buy their child a seat on the plane. End of story. 

 

Don't judge people who wont make the same decision you would. If they wont fly with their baby in their lap, it's their right. I don't always buy organic food for my children but I congratulate those who do and still think it's better. I've also flown with my baby in my lap but only a limited number of times and only because either my car seat wasn't allowed on a foreign airline or once, as a FTM, I didn't make the reservation. My baby ended up without a car seat on a long drive, which was stupid of me and while my son is fine today, I don't want others to take the risk if they can avoid it.

 

It's valid to let parents, some who might be new to this game, know that flying with a lap baby is not safe. It's like the breast vs. formula debate. It's not being "judge-y" to say that something safe is better. Parent can assess the risks for themselves. Commercial air travel is very safe so the risks of something going wrong are very minimal, much less than formula or going anywhere by car or a million other things.  But it's only fair that people know that yes, having your child on your lap a safety compromise. 

 

If you are flying with a lap baby and need your car seat at your destination NEVER CHECK IT AS LUGGAGE. By all means BRING IT TO THE GATE. There are two advantages to this. First, if the flight isn't full, perhaps you can get a free seat next to you and bring your car seat on board. Best of both worlds! Your child is much safer and you didn't pay a penny!!

 

Gate-checking a car seat is no guarantee and definitely a compromise but there are fewer risks. By taking the seat to the gate, you're not letting the airline handle the car seat for as long, so less risk of it being sent to another city. At the gate, the gate-checked stuff is loaded directly on to the aircraft. They're usually the last items put on board so less chance of their being crushed by 10,000 suitcases. Wheelchairs are gate-checked.

 

Things can still go wrong. Some airports use chutes, which basically throw the gate-checked things down on to the tarmac. Also, someone could forget or run out of time and gate-checked items have been left behind on the jetway but that's rare. 

 

What you're trying to reduce is the chance of having to leave the airport in a car without the car seat. The risk of something going wrong on the flight are far, far less than having your child unrestrained in a car. 

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#37 of 50 Old 09-13-2011, 09:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl View Post

That argument doesn't make sense because once the baby turns 2, you have to buy them a seat. So there goes the "affordability" question. Lap babies aren't an option after that point. So if anyone in the family gets sick or a parent has to travel in a hurry, they're going to have to buy their child a seat on the plane. End of story. 

 

Don't judge people who wont make the same decision you would. If they wont fly with their baby in their lap, it's their right. I don't always buy organic food for my children but I congratulate those who do and still think it's better. I've also flown with my baby in my lap but only a limited number of times and only because either my car seat wasn't allowed on a foreign airline or once, as a FTM, I didn't make the reservation. My baby ended up without a car seat on a long drive, which was stupid of me and while my son is fine today, I don't want others to take the risk if they can avoid it.

 

It's valid to let parents, some who might be new to this game, know that flying with a lap baby is not safe. It's like the breast vs. formula debate. It's not being "judge-y" to say that something safe is better. Parent can assess the risks for themselves. Commercial air travel is very safe so the risks of something going wrong are very minimal, much less than formula or going anywhere by car or a million other things.  But it's only fair that people know that yes, having your child on your lap a safety compromise. 

 

If you are flying with a lap baby and need your car seat at your destination NEVER CHECK IT AS LUGGAGE. By all means BRING IT TO THE GATE. There are two advantages to this. First, if the flight isn't full, perhaps you can get a free seat next to you and bring your car seat on board. Best of both worlds! Your child is much safer and you didn't pay a penny!!

 

Gate-checking a car seat is no guarantee and definitely a compromise but there are fewer risks. By taking the seat to the gate, you're not letting the airline handle the car seat for as long, so less risk of it being sent to another city. At the gate, the gate-checked stuff is loaded directly on to the aircraft. They're usually the last items put on board so less chance of their being crushed by 10,000 suitcases. Wheelchairs are gate-checked.

 

Things can still go wrong. Some airports use chutes, which basically throw the gate-checked things down on to the tarmac. Also, someone could forget or run out of time and gate-checked items have been left behind on the jetway but that's rare. 

 

What you're trying to reduce is the chance of having to leave the airport in a car without the car seat. The risk of something going wrong on the flight are far, far less than having your child unrestrained in a car. 

 

Thanks for dismissing ALL possible scenarios where a parent or family needs to fly (with a child under 2) and the cost between 1 ticket vs. 2 or 3 tickets vs. 4 makes a difference as to whether or not they have enough money for the trip. 

 

And of course it is "their right" to do whatever they want with their child. It is NOT "their right" to tell every other parent in the world that they "can't afford to fly if they can't purchase a ticket for their baby."  

 

And please don't lecture me about how I am doing a disservice to the safety of children by minimizing the dangers of lap babies. What I clearly said was that traveling by car, which was suggested as a better choice than flying with a lap baby upthread, is in fact the much more dangerous option.

 


 

 

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#38 of 50 Old 09-13-2011, 02:36 PM
 
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As a projectile, a lapbaby is also a danger to other passengers.  I've had the lovely experience of enjoying multiple flights with severe turbulence.  I've seen items go flying--including babies.

 

True, air travel with a lapbaby is safer than car travel, but a lapbaby is significantly less safe than restrained passengers.  My son has travelled happily in his carseat on planes.  It meant we travelled less often as we needed to save up for safe seats for all family members, but that's part of life.

 

Back to the original question--I would not check a carseat unless it was in the original packaging or something very similar.  Corrugated cardboard is designed to take some of the stresses of travel and mishandling. 

 


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#39 of 50 Old 09-13-2011, 03:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl View Post

That argument doesn't make sense because once the baby turns 2, you have to buy them a seat. So there goes the "affordability" question. Lap babies aren't an option after that point. So if anyone in the family gets sick or a parent has to travel in a hurry, they're going to have to buy their child a seat on the plane. End of story. 

 

Don't judge people who wont make the same decision you would. If they wont fly with their baby in their lap, it's their right. I don't always buy organic food for my children but I congratulate those who do and still think it's better. I've also flown with my baby in my lap but only a limited number of times and only because either my car seat wasn't allowed on a foreign airline or once, as a FTM, I didn't make the reservation. My baby ended up without a car seat on a long drive, which was stupid of me and while my son is fine today, I don't want others to take the risk if they can avoid it.

 

It's valid to let parents, some who might be new to this game, know that flying with a lap baby is not safe. It's like the breast vs. formula debate. It's not being "judge-y" to say that something safe is better. Parent can assess the risks for themselves. Commercial air travel is very safe so the risks of something going wrong are very minimal, much less than formula or going anywhere by car or a million other things.  But it's only fair that people know that yes, having your child on your lap a safety compromise. 

 

If you are flying with a lap baby and need your car seat at your destination NEVER CHECK IT AS LUGGAGE. By all means BRING IT TO THE GATE. There are two advantages to this. First, if the flight isn't full, perhaps you can get a free seat next to you and bring your car seat on board. Best of both worlds! Your child is much safer and you didn't pay a penny!!

 

Gate-checking a car seat is no guarantee and definitely a compromise but there are fewer risks. By taking the seat to the gate, you're not letting the airline handle the car seat for as long, so less risk of it being sent to another city. At the gate, the gate-checked stuff is loaded directly on to the aircraft. They're usually the last items put on board so less chance of their being crushed by 10,000 suitcases. Wheelchairs are gate-checked.

 

Things can still go wrong. Some airports use chutes, which basically throw the gate-checked things down on to the tarmac. Also, someone could forget or run out of time and gate-checked items have been left behind on the jetway but that's rare. 

 

What you're trying to reduce is the chance of having to leave the airport in a car without the car seat. The risk of something going wrong on the flight are far, far less than having your child unrestrained in a car. 




Your baby is safer as a lap baby in an airplane than she would be in a carseat on a long car trip. 

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#40 of 50 Old 09-14-2011, 01:44 AM
 
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I don't think you really read my post.

 

And of course it is "their right" to do whatever they want with their child. It is NOT "their right" to tell every other parent in the world that they "can't afford to fly if they can't purchase a ticket for their baby."  

 

They said that when they can't afford a seat for each member of their family, they can't afford to fly. That's completely their right to decide this. If they think we're (yes, I'm included, at least on a few flights) are wrong by flying with a lap baby, that's their right. Technically, they're right. Look at my organic food argument. I buy some for my kids but not all. If someone thinks I'm a bad parent for not buying nothing but organic food, then they have that right. They can make a case in their favor but it's not practical or affordable for us and it's just a compromise I'm willing to make. It's still "their right" to express an opinion and it's my "right" to take their advice or leave it! 

 

Just as a word of warning, this whole parenthood game involved a lot of "advice giving" and sometimes judging you. It's a good idea to develop somewhat of a thick skin because it wont stop; the schools you choose (or option to home school), the clothes they wear, computer, cell phone use, religious matters, etc. Some people want to sincerely offer you tips and information. Others seem to relish the opportunity to criticize (like the neighbor who was horrified that I sent my kids to public school while she never uses even seat belts with her own privately educated children). It can be hard to draw the line and sometimes it's a neighbor you see every day or your boss's wife...

 

And please don't lecture me about how I am doing a disservice to the safety of children by minimizing the dangers of lap babies. What I clearly said was that traveling by car, which was suggested as a better choice than flying with a lap baby upthread, is in fact the much more dangerous option.

 

"Lecture" is kind of extreme word to use here. Again, I don't think you read my post carefully enough before typing a response. This is a public forum where people come to get information. The point is for parents to know what are the safest options and then to make an informed decision based on what they've learned here and elsewhere. For some, doing the safest thing is not a big deal. For others, it might not work but at least they know. Not all parents make the same choices but just saying that X is safer than Y is not "lecturing" or "judging" anyone. 

 

Yes, driving is not as safe as flying. Millions of lap babies arrive at their destinations safely each year while riding in a car is the most dangerous thing a child will ever do in his or her childhood. But last I checked, there's no way I can drive from Europe to California, so it's not a choice for me anyway! 

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#41 of 50 Old 09-15-2011, 03:54 PM
 
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Haven't read all the responses yet, but she DID say that her kids have their own seats. That's not the issue with taking them onboard. The issue is that the seat has to be certified for an airplane, and even then it is at the airline's (actually, the flight attendant's) discretion whether they'll let you install it or not. My friend had purchased a car seat that was MADE for airplane travel (it also had a handle and foldout wheels to stroll around the airport (genius!)) and she was allowed to use it on a flight to her destination, but not back. No reason given.

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because depending on the age of your kids they may not have their own seat! but in my case i was traveling with 2 six month old twins and needed the car seats and a snap and go to get them to the gate, but clearly could not take said items on board with me.

 

i still dont see what kind of damage you both are referring to that is going to make my seat less crash worthy. specially if i make a point of wrapping it up so they cant grab the thing by any straps



 


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#42 of 50 Old 09-15-2011, 04:45 PM
 
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I'm sorry ahead of time because I am going to get flack for verbalizing this, but I really feel that the whole car seat thing has become some weird focal point of the 21st century mommy wars. The whole "family safety" section is absolutely covered in discussions of car seats. To say that one needs to purchase more car seats or replace them after checking them is RIDICULOUS. When I was little, we crawled all over the van floor and slept laying down in the backseat on car trips. Car seats didn't exist. In New York City where we live, only 2% of parents use a car seat in a cab. No one wants to lug that thing around and YES, they take a risk. We take a risk with our children daily in so many ways. Are car seats a great invention? YES! I have two for my son. One in our car, one at his grandparents' house. Have I flown with them? Yep. I checked them in at the gate, too. mischievous.gif Car seats have greatly reduced deaths and injuries when it comes to car accidents. That is AWESOME!!! But you know what? Childhood cancer is on the rise. Do you tell a mother who is feeding her child nonorganic food, or worse, McDonald's that she is being UNSAFE? Do you prosecute her? No? Why not? Isn't she raising the risk that her child will suffer from cancer?

 

As an urban parent, the car seat high horse know-it-all insults really get to me. I feel like suburban mothers who have the advantage of owning vehicles in the first place need to understand that parents all have different lifestyles and they are still good, "safe" parents even if they don't use a car seat in a cab, or check their car seat at the gate.

 

Show some respect to each other, mamas! 

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#43 of 50 Old 09-16-2011, 12:30 AM
 
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The issue is that the seat has to be certified for an airplane, and even then it is at the airline's (actually, the flight attendant's) discretion whether they'll let you install it or not. My friend had purchased a car seat that was MADE for airplane travel (it also had a handle and foldout wheels to stroll around the airport (genius!)) and she was allowed to use it on a flight to her destination, but not back. No reason given.

 


For the record, if she had been flying a U.S. company, the airline employees were breaking FAA rules by not allowing her to use it on board. If a parent purchases a seat and has a U.S. (or foreign) approval for aircraft use, the airline cannot refuse it. I hope she reported it both to the airline management and the FAA. 

 

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%20120-87B.pdf

 

 

 No aircraft operator may prohibit a child from using an approved CRS when the parent/guardian purchases a seat for the child.

 

Page 7 

 

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make in the second post. Your logic wasn't clear. In the days when we were little, many children died in accidents who would have survived today. The children who died are not here to make their case. We're the lucky ones. 

 

Also, far more children die in car accidents than of cancer. There is a clear link between car seat use and children surviving car crashes.

 

I used a car seat when I lived in a big city. I avoided taxis with my child, taking the tram or bus instead. No big deal. I didn't feel that the moms in the 'burbs with the minivans were judging me. When we moved out, we did get a better car and a better car seat though, just because we were in the car more!

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#44 of 50 Old 09-16-2011, 06:20 AM
 
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You were the minority if you used a car seat in the big city. In New York, mothers who take cabs (not everyone takes the tram or bus instead) don't drag car seats all over the city. I would like to see current statistics that show that more children die in CAR accidents. More children die of ACCIDENTS, but that includes accidents that don't involve cars. Here is an NYC report: http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-childfatality-book.pdf. It shows clearly that not only is the average of 1.3 (per 100,000) motor vehicle accidents significantly lower than the national average of 3.8, that non-motor vehicle accidents account for a significantly higher death rate. You could argue that is because more people in NYC use public transportation (with no car seats!!), and that's partially true, but there is also a much lower (almost nonexistent) rate of car seat use in rented and hired cars, as well as one of the highest rates of traffic in the country.  Yes, car seats have GREATLY reduced death and injury rates in car accidents. I mentioned that in my post and it's great! I don't advocate not using a car seat. I just understand that not everyone owns a car and I don't think they are being "unsafe" by not using a car seat onboard the airplane and checking it instead. The chances of injury are so miniscule that to read that someone was concerned about a child being a "projectile" actually made me laugh. I have seen children turn into "projectiles" on buses, in the subway, on every form of public transport. That's just part of traveling with children. SHort of putting them into a bubble, there's just nothing these parents can do but use these forms of transportation without a car seat. Like I said, when I drive, I use a car seat. Cancer is the #1 disease killer of children. I thought my point was pretty clear. To tell a parent that she is being unsafe because she checks a car seat in at the gate is judgmental and ridiculous. If you're going to be car seat police, you might as well police what food parents feed their kids, what cleaners they use, and what lotions they slather onto their kids. A LOT of people check their car seats in on the plane and continue to use them afterwards. A lot of parents live a lifestyle in which they don't purchase a car seat. They're as good of a parent as you. 
 

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I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make in the second post. Your logic wasn't clear. In the days when we were little, many children died in accidents who would have survived today. The children who died are not here to make their case. We're the lucky ones. 

 

Also, far more children die in car accidents than of cancer. There is a clear link between car seat use and children surviving car crashes.

 

I used a car seat when I lived in a big city. I avoided taxis with my child, taking the tram or bus instead. No big deal. I didn't feel that the moms in the 'burbs with the minivans were judging me. When we moved out, we did get a better car and a better car seat though, just because we were in the car more!



 

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#45 of 50 Old 09-16-2011, 06:35 AM
 
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Yes, it was a cross country flight, and she was definitely told not to use it. I don't know the reason, but no, she didn't report them. She just put her little girl in the regular seat and they flew happily and stress-free and arrived safe and sound. I don't think she was up for the battle, and it made no difference in the end. I'll be leaving the thread now and must apologize to the OP that her thread got derailed. 
 

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For the record, if she had been flying a U.S. company, the airline employees were breaking FAA rules by not allowing her to use it on board. If a parent purchases a seat and has a U.S. (or foreign) approval for aircraft use, the airline cannot refuse it. I hope she reported it both to the airline management and the FAA. 

 



 


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#46 of 50 Old 09-18-2011, 03:22 AM
 
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Yes, it was a cross country flight, and she was definitely told not to use it. I don't know the reason, but no, she didn't report them. She just put her little girl in the regular seat and they flew happily and stress-free and arrived safe and sound. I don't think she was up for the battle, and it made no difference in the end. I'll be leaving the thread now and must apologize to the OP that her thread got derailed. 
 



 

The reason that her dd arrived safely was because nothing went wrong on the flight. If parents don't report these incidents. They'll continue to happen. 

 

Again, don't confuse issues by mixing subjects which aren't related. No one was judging anyone. That was your imagination. The OP came here for information and you're bringing up cancer, etc. 
 

 

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I know this wasn't your post, but this is what I was responding to. This attitude right here. If you don't understand the concept of an analogy, there's little I can do to help you understand. shrug.gif

My friend's daughter arrived safely because nothing happened on the flight....Ummm, yes. The point some PPs were making is that flying with a child in your lap is significantly safer than driving, even with the car seat. Plane accidents are significantly more rare than almost any other accident. I posted statistics on childhood accidents and deaths for you, so you can double check. The fear mongering is really not helping the OP or anyone else keep their child safe. And yes, her thread was completely derailed, starting with the point at which she was told to not check her car seat, because "something could happen to it"....
 

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Unfortunately, they were not safe.  Car seats tend to be handled very poorly as luggage, gate checked or otherwise.   They can be thrown, jumped on, tossed onto the tarmac.  I have personally examined seats that were damaged when gate checked.   

 

The 'bag' does not provide protection against structural damage.  I would never use a seat for my own children that had been checked on an aircraft, and I would advise anyone who has one to discontinue use and replace it with a new seat.   



 

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#48 of 50 Old 09-03-2012, 01:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl View Post

That argument doesn't make sense because once the baby turns 2, you have to buy them a seat. So there goes the "affordability" question. Lap babies aren't an option after that point. So if anyone in the family gets sick or a parent has to travel in a hurry, they're going to have to buy their child a seat on the plane. End of story. 

 

Don't judge people who wont make the same decision you would. If they wont fly with their baby in their lap, it's their right. I don't always buy organic food for my children but I congratulate those who do and still think it's better. I've also flown with my baby in my lap but only a limited number of times and only because either my car seat wasn't allowed on a foreign airline or once, as a FTM, I didn't make the reservation. My baby ended up without a car seat on a long drive, which was stupid of me and while my son is fine today, I don't want others to take the risk if they can avoid it.

 

It's valid to let parents, some who might be new to this game, know that flying with a lap baby is not safe. It's like the breast vs. formula debate. It's not being "judge-y" to say that something safe is better. Parent can assess the risks for themselves. Commercial air travel is very safe so the risks of something going wrong are very minimal, much less than formula or going anywhere by car or a million other things.  But it's only fair that people know that yes, having your child on your lap a safety compromise. 

 

If you are flying with a lap baby and need your car seat at your destination NEVER CHECK IT AS LUGGAGE. By all means BRING IT TO THE GATE. There are two advantages to this. First, if the flight isn't full, perhaps you can get a free seat next to you and bring your car seat on board. Best of both worlds! Your child is much safer and you didn't pay a penny!!

 

Gate-checking a car seat is no guarantee and definitely a compromise but there are fewer risks. By taking the seat to the gate, you're not letting the airline handle the car seat for as long, so less risk of it being sent to another city. At the gate, the gate-checked stuff is loaded directly on to the aircraft. They're usually the last items put on board so less chance of their being crushed by 10,000 suitcases. Wheelchairs are gate-checked.

 

Things can still go wrong. Some airports use chutes, which basically throw the gate-checked things down on to the tarmac. Also, someone could forget or run out of time and gate-checked items have been left behind on the jetway but that's rare. 

 

What you're trying to reduce is the chance of having to leave the airport in a car without the car seat. The risk of something going wrong on the flight are far, far less than having your child unrestrained in a car. 

actually - it's not the end of story.  I for instance am able to leave my two year old over night with his dad, so I could go to help my mom, if she needed it.  But my 1 year old?  Or a 3 month old  No, I would need to bring him with, and I would not be able to afford a second ticket.  so yes, the affordability argument does make sense, for some people.

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#49 of 50 Old 09-03-2012, 07:22 AM
 
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Did you seriously just bump a thread that is A YEAR OLD in order to argue with and insult people?   Lady, you need a hobby. 

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#50 of 50 Old 09-04-2012, 12:44 AM
 
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Yes, it's the end of the story. Please don't drudge up old threads. Thank you! 

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