?re: changing a convertible seat to a booster - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-10-2007, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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my 3 year old is in a cosco alpha omega convertible seat.

The booklet says
"when your child is over 40 lbs. or 40" and over and over 1 year old, you must remove the harness and the base and use this seat as a belt-positioning booster."

Ds is just under 40 lbs. and is about 41", but the harness still fits him just fine. His shoulders are level with the holes the the harness comes through. Is there a reason why I should take the harness out just because he's over 40", even though it still fits him? It seems safer to me.
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Old 08-10-2007, 06:37 PM
 
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If he is under 40# and his shoulders are under the 4th set of slots (PLEASE check the back of your seat to see), then he is fine in the harness. If he's using the 5th set of slots, it needs to be a booster ASAP.

Jennifer, LPN and nursing student, Doula, CPST, and VBAC mama x3 to
AJ (5/03), Evan (12/04), Ilana (11/06), Olivia (2/09), and Unity (8/2012)

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Old 08-10-2007, 07:21 PM
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A three year old child is in no way, shape or form old enough to be using a belt positioning booster.

If you are using the top slots of your AOE in harness mode, you need to buy a new harnessed seat ASAP. You will be needing to buy one anyway, as your boy is nearly 40 lbs.
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Old 08-10-2007, 07:39 PM
 
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Why did I think he was 5? Oops!

Jennifer, LPN and nursing student, Doula, CPST, and VBAC mama x3 to
AJ (5/03), Evan (12/04), Ilana (11/06), Olivia (2/09), and Unity (8/2012)

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Old 08-10-2007, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
A three year old child is in no way, shape or form old enough to be using a belt positioning booster.

If you are using the top slots of your AOE in harness mode, you need to buy a new harnessed seat ASAP. You will be needing to buy one anyway, as your boy is nearly 40 lbs.
It's not on the top slots, that position is only for booster use. It's on the one below that.

So are you basically saying that this seat is dangerous in its intended use? Ds is kind of a big kid but well within normal and according to the makers of this seat, will be in belt-positioning booster territory when he's 3.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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So are you basically saying that this seat is dangerous in its intended use? Ds is kind of a big kid but well within normal and according to the makers of this seat, will be in belt-positioning booster territory when he's 3.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes! Cosco has a history of selling dangerous seats. (Case in point:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/servic...ck=1&cset=true )
That's why my Alpha Omega got trashed a long time ago.
A child needs to be at least four years old to be safe in a booster. The Alpha Omega makes a terrible booster anyway; it has funny belt guides that don't keep the belt snug against the child, posing a risk of ejection in the event of a crash.
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes! Cosco has a history of selling dangerous seats. (Case in point:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/servic...ck=1&cset=true )
That's why my Alpha Omega got trashed a long time ago.
A child needs to be at least four years old to be safe in a booster. The Alpha Omega makes a terrible booster anyway; it has funny belt guides that don't keep the belt snug against the child, posing a risk of ejection in the event of a crash.
Do you know why 4 years old?

Also, does anyone know of sites with safety comparisons of different seats? I see that one sticky in this forum, but that looks like it is just rating ease of use?
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:59 PM
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It's not on the top slots, that position is only for booster use. It's on the one below that.

So are you basically saying that this seat is dangerous in its intended use? Ds is kind of a big kid but well within normal and according to the makers of this seat, will be in belt-positioning booster territory when he's 3.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Four years and forty pounds is the bare minimum for transferring from a five point harness to a belt positioning then, and even so, most car seat safety enthusiasts wouldn't even consider a bpb as an option before the fifth birthday.

The AOE is a notably bad carseat in this regard.
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:23 AM
 
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I would never never never put an under 4 yr old kid in a booster. I personally wouldn't be comfortable with a 4 yr old in anything but a harnessed seat.

Going from a harnessed seat to a booster is a HUGE step down in safety for a number of reasons. Most simply though is the difference in a crash of how a 3pt seat belt fits vs. a 5pt. harness.

-Angela
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Four years and forty pounds is the bare minimum for transferring from a five point harness to a belt positioning then, and even so, most car seat safety enthusiasts wouldn't even consider a bpb as an option before the fifth birthday.

The AOE is a notably bad carseat in this regard.
Hmm, well I'm glad I asked. Maybe I'm naive, but if four years is the bare minimum for a booster, why is a seat allowed to be sold that is sized for a normal sized three year old to be in a booster? Where is the four year old rule written down?
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:44 AM
 
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Hmm, well I'm glad I asked. Maybe I'm naive, but if four years is the bare minimum for a booster, why is a seat allowed to be sold that is sized for a normal sized three year old to be in a booster? Where is the four year old rule written down?
Why is it allowed to be sold? Because it makes money.

-Angela
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Why is it allowed to be sold? Because it makes money.

-Angela
Well, yeah, but I thought that car seat manufacturing was regulated to conform with certain standards. So I'm wondering about the four year minimum for a booster and where that comes from.
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Old 08-11-2007, 02:15 AM
 
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Well, yeah, but I thought that car seat manufacturing was regulated to conform with certain standards. So I'm wondering about the four year minimum for a booster and where that comes from.
The standards are very, very low.

The 4 year standard has to do with a number of factors- skeletal strength being one- just like turning from rf to ff.

Also to sit in a booster, a child must be able to sit perfectly correctly at all times every time (this includes not falling asleep) I've not known children who could do this before 4 at the earliest.

-Angela
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Old 08-11-2007, 02:30 PM
 
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Here is my favorite link on appropriate booster use:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2LFo8vVi04
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Old 08-11-2007, 02:34 PM
 
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And here are some others, kindly provided by someone on another forum:

mentions weight and maturity:
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/BoosterShop.aspx

2005 Data: Car crashes #2 cause of death for ages 1-3, and #1 cause of death ages 4-34:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...005/809831.pdf

High Back Booster seat crash test:
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_s...xicosirodi.mpg

5 point harness crash test:
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_s...cosipriori.mpg

The CHOP on child safety seats:
http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/div...c.jsp?id=77971

The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia on booster seats:
http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/div...74#when_should

Why We Use Booster Seats (on pg 2, point #3 it gives age and weight guidelines of ‘about’ age 4 & 40 lbs):
http://www.safe.state.mn.us/BoosterS...ove%20res).pdf

Here are the links to some crash tests of booster seats:
http://www.oeamtc.at/videobox/index....movie_kind=swf

http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_s...g_P3_vorne.mpg

I hope something in there helps you out! You won't find it written in stone anywhere that you can't put a three year old in a booster, because here in the US it is legal to do so. Like Angela said, the standards are very, very low. Just like it's legal to turn a 22 pound 13 month old forward facing. It's legal, it just isn't safe.
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all those links!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm going to get him weighed next week so I know exactly what weight I'm dealing with. And if he's 37 lbs. or so it really might take him a while to get up to 40, he's been gaining slowly since 2 or so. He really is pretty mature, calm, and non-wiggly, so it almost seems like he could be ready for a booster by the time he outgrows the harness, but I can definitely appreciate the thought that 3 or just barely 4 years old is just too young for a booster.

Does anyone know what the less expensive higher weight limit 5-pt. harness seats are, off the top of your head?
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:25 PM
 
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Does anyone know what the less expensive higher weight limit 5-pt. harness seats are, off the top of your head?
There's the Apex- if your car has head rests or a high seat back. There's the Fisher price seat (safe voyage?) that's a stripped down marathon.

Then you get into the radian, regent and new recaro price range.

-Angela
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:09 PM
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Thanks for all those links!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm going to get him weighed next week so I know exactly what weight I'm dealing with. And if he's 37 lbs. or so it really might take him a while to get up to 40, he's been gaining slowly since 2 or so. He really is pretty mature, calm, and non-wiggly, so it almost seems like he could be ready for a booster by the time he outgrows the harness, but I can definitely appreciate the thought that 3 or just barely 4 years old is just too young for a booster.

Does anyone know what the less expensive higher weight limit 5-pt. harness seats are, off the top of your head?
If he's just 37 lbs you may have 6 months or more before it's a worry, from a weight perspective anyway.

The answer as to why it's still being sold? Because it SELLS. People see it in the catalogue and think, "hey, a seat that will last me until my child is ready to be in a seat belt!" and they buy it. And since every child grows differently, Dorel can't be slapped under Truth in Advertising laws.

US standards for carseats are amazingly pathetic.

If you let us know your budget and your car, I can make some higher harnessing weight suggestions
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If he's just 37 lbs you may have 6 months or more before it's a worry, from a weight perspective anyway.

The answer as to why it's still being sold? Because it SELLS. People see it in the catalogue and think, "hey, a seat that will last me until my child is ready to be in a seat belt!" and they buy it. And since every child grows differently, Dorel can't be slapped under Truth in Advertising laws.

US standards for carseats are amazingly pathetic.

If you let us know your budget and your car, I can make some higher harnessing weight suggestions
Yeah, I'm just not sure EXACTLY how much he weighs. Our scale isn't very accurate, so I'll stop by the doctor's office in town next week. I actually think his height will be an issue before his weight. His shoulders are right at the level of the harness holes now.

We have a`'97 suburu outback station wagon - no LATCH. Budget is hard to pinpoint - I don't even know the range of pricing without checking ... I don't want to say something ridiculously low and be scoffed at . But really, we don't have expendable income, it would come out of savings. Is $50 ridiculously low?
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:13 PM
 
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US standards for carseats are amazingly pathetic.
:

Just worth repeating...

-Angela
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:29 PM
 
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Unfortunately I think the cheapest you are going to find is the Apex, and the best price I've seen on it is $100.
This is why the 3 in 1 pisses me off so much. They sell for about $150. But a parent can buy a Cosco Scenera for $40, and then later an Apex for $100, their kids will be a lot safer and they'll be money ahead. It's aggravating the way Cosco suckers parents into wasting money on this seat by advertising it as "the only seat you'll ever need". It's really unfair to people with limited budgets.
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:31 PM
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We have a`'97 suburu outback station wagon - no LATCH. Budget is hard to pinpoint - I don't even know the range of pricing without checking ... I don't want to say something ridiculously low and be scoffed at . But really, we don't have expendable income, it would come out of savings. Is $50 ridiculously low?

I've got bad news for you I'm not scoffing

There are combination seats in the fifty dollar range, but all of them max out at 40 lbs for the harness, which doesn't do you any good.

The CHEAPEST seat that has a nice tall harness (17 inches) and a greater-than-40 weight limit (65 lbs) is the Cosco/Safety First Apex/Biltmore which runs between 90-130 depending on cover/sales. It converts to a booster up to 100 lbs. It's a great niche seat, but you MUST HAVE HEADRESTS to use it. If you don't have headrests, it's not an option, unfortunately.

Do you have headrests?
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Old 08-11-2007, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Do you have headrests?
yes, on the side seats, not the middle, which is where I've had him, with dd rear-facing on the side. But I guess he could sit on the side, that would be an ok trade-off.
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Old 08-12-2007, 10:51 PM
 
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If you have headrests you can get the Apex. I had to do that with my dc. My dd was 40lbs at 3years and now my 2.5 year old is fast approaching 40lbs. As long as it will work with your vehicle the apex would be a good buy for you.

I got mine on albee for $100

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Old 08-12-2007, 10:53 PM
 
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Unfortunately I think the cheapest you are going to find is the Apex, and the best price I've seen on it is $100.
This is why the 3 in 1 pisses me off so much. They sell for about $150. But a parent can buy a Cosco Scenera for $40, and then later an Apex for $100, their kids will be a lot safer and they'll be money ahead. It's aggravating the way Cosco suckers parents into wasting money on this seat by advertising it as "the only seat you'll ever need". It's really unfair to people with limited budgets.

: It is WRONG!

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Old 08-12-2007, 11:01 PM
 
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I would so love to know what you would do if you had a 50lbs child who's only 3yrs old. Plus you have no $$ to spend for a better carseat that has the 5pt harness for over 50lbs. They have no choice to be in a booster. This is what happen to my friend. She had no choice to put her child in a booster seat at this age. She didn't want to but there was/is no other carseat here that she could have bought.

There is no rule about putting a child under or even over 4yrs old in a booster. It goes with the weightand/or height.

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Old 08-12-2007, 11:02 PM
 
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If he is under 40# and his shoulders are under the 4th set of slots (PLEASE check the back of your seat to see), then he is fine in the harness. If he's using the 5th set of slots, it needs to be a booster ASAP.
My ds is using the 5th slot on the Eddie Bauer High Back Booster? He is just under 40lbs and is almost 2.5. I was waiting until 40lbs to move him to the apex b/c dd is in it right now. What is the reason that he can't be using the 5th slot?

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Old 08-12-2007, 11:07 PM
 
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I would so love to know what you would do if you had a 50lbs child who's only 3yrs old. Plus you have no $$ to spend for a better carseat that has the 5pt harness for over 50lbs. They have no choice to be in a booster. This is what happen to my friend. She had no choice to put her child in a booster seat at this age. She didn't want to but there was/is no other carseat here that she could have bought.

There is no rule about putting a child under or even over 4yrs old in a booster. It goes with the weightand/or height.

I would have spent the cheapest amount I could have which is $100 dollars and gotten a carseat that harnesses to 65lbs.

Not having the money isn't an excuse for me, I would have saved up, borrowed from friends whatever it takes.

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Old 08-13-2007, 01:22 AM
 
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I would so love to know what you would do if you had a 50lbs child who's only 3yrs old. Plus you have no $$ to spend for a better carseat that has the 5pt harness for over 50lbs. They have no choice to be in a booster. This is what happen to my friend. She had no choice to put her child in a booster seat at this age. She didn't want to but there was/is no other carseat here that she could have bought.
The Kyle David ****** Foundation provides HWL seats to low income people in need.
http://www.kyledavidmiller.org/pages...y_for_Help.htm
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:23 PM
 
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I would have spent the cheapest amount I could have which is $100 dollars and gotten a carseat that harnesses to 65lbs.

Not having the money isn't an excuse for me, I would have saved up, borrowed from friends whatever it takes.
I never saw any seat in Canada that had harnesses to 65lbs. To 47lbs was the max i ever saw. Please don't say that Britax do make seats up to 65lbs with harnesses because we can't get them up here.

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The Kyle David ****** Foundation provides HWL seats to low income people in need.
http://www.kyledavidmiller.org/pages...y_for_Help.htm
That's looks like a great site but it's not available for canadians.

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