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#1 of 46 Old 01-03-2008, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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X Posted (mostly) in my tribal area

My son's dad has an Evenflo Triumph Advance Deluxe car seat for our son (http://www.evenflo.com/Homepage/Prod...d-cb460e254ea8). He's 21 lbs, 31 inches and 15 months old. The car seat rear faces from 5-35 lbs. I installed the seat rear facing in his car and told him to have it checked because he doesn't have bottom latches and I wanted to make sure it was installed with the seat belt right.
He called the Bourne, MA fire station (there is one person in Bourne who is a car seat tech) and got it in today. The guy told him that because of Andrew's size (that's our son's name) he is better off forward facing and he turned the seat around. According to the manual it is good for rear facing until 35 lbs, according to car seat safety sites and the AAP site, children are better rear facing as long as possible.
Am I missing something? Is there anything I can do (besides turning it around)

Monther of Riley (11), Andrew (4) and Victoria (7 months)
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#2 of 46 Old 01-03-2008, 08:47 PM
 
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Turn it back around, pointing out that the firestation person was giving wrong advice, perhaps he thought he was asking a different question? Show him the advice of the aap and whatever else if he needs the reassurance.
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#3 of 46 Old 01-03-2008, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That was my plan (turning it, showing him evidence). I already said that the guy was wrong but I'm pretty sure he thinks I am. He's one of those "but the authority says" kind of people. Makes a lot of my parenting choices difficult- co-sleeping, extended breastfeeding, circ, ect.
I meant is there anything I could do about this person telling people that forward facing is better for over 20 lb children? I'd hate for him to give that kind of "advice" to someone who isn't so snobby...er...informed :-)

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#4 of 46 Old 01-03-2008, 09:15 PM
 
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Turn the seat back around, and email the SafeKids coalition to let them know he's giving out bad info!

ETA: for some reason it linked to Ohio, but you can pick your state from the drop down menu. And good for you for questioning the tech!

CPST & mom

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#5 of 46 Old 01-04-2008, 10:07 AM
 
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If he wants to hear lots of techs tell him the guy was wrong, post on www.car-seat.org We have no problems telling people there are bad techs out there, like there are bad anything else. My son is still rfing at 3 (I'm a carseat tech) and it's the safest for him, especially at your son's age!

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#6 of 46 Old 01-04-2008, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much!
I'll check that site out. He wouldn't know what to do on a message board if his life depended on it, though LOL
I have sent him many links (including that youtube one that I found on this board with crash tests and quotes) we'll see if he actually looks.

Monther of Riley (11), Andrew (4) and Victoria (7 months)
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#7 of 46 Old 01-04-2008, 03:50 PM
 
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The AAP, Safe Kids, NHSTA, and every car seat manufacturer recommend rear-facing to the limits of the seat (since he tends to listen to 'authorities'. ) Safe Kids are the ones who trained that tech, and he's going against their recommenations, so be sure to point that out

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#8 of 46 Old 01-04-2008, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I did that today too... as I was changing the seat. His response? "Phil (the guy's name) said there's a new study. He said it's safer because of impact and legs..." I gave up and stopped listening.
The study must be so new that no one's heard of it.
I quoted all the real authorities, I sent him links to crash tests... I've done all that I can do. The seat will remain backwards though because otherwise there will be no car trips.
Thank you everyone

Monther of Riley (11), Andrew (4) and Victoria (7 months)
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#9 of 46 Old 01-04-2008, 10:42 PM
 
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Yeah, that guy is full of it. Please make sure you email the head of the safe kids coalition in that area, and report him. I'm glad you knew better, but I shutter to think of other parents not knowing better!

CPST & mom

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#10 of 46 Old 01-04-2008, 10:46 PM
 
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crap i didn't know about this!!! i thought you turn them around at 20 lbs at least one year of age. Interesting. More research for me to do. Wo, when is it safe to turn them?
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#11 of 46 Old 01-04-2008, 11:00 PM
 
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Carseat techs in our area pretty much said the same thing to me. One of them even went as far as saying that high weight harnesses and rear-facing are a fad and I was wasting my money buying a relatively more expensive carseat (we have Radians).
I was pretty miffed to say the least and contacted our local Safekids coordinator. I was assured that she (Safekids coordinator) was going to put a stop to this misinformation and re-educate the the CPST's in the area.
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#12 of 46 Old 01-04-2008, 11:48 PM
 
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crap i didn't know about this!!! i thought you turn them around at 20 lbs at least one year of age. Interesting. More research for me to do. Wo, when is it safe to turn them?
They should remain rearfacing to the limits of their carseat, 30-35lbs depending on the seat and at least 2 if possible.
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#13 of 46 Old 01-05-2008, 01:13 AM
 
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: sigh.
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#14 of 46 Old 01-05-2008, 01:04 PM
 
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crap i didn't know about this!!! i thought you turn them around at 20 lbs at least one year of age. Interesting. More research for me to do. Wo, when is it safe to turn them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psmUWg7QrC8 It gets safer after 2, but the longer they stay rfing the better. All seats in the US rf to 30-35# and as long as they are under that and under the top of their seat, they are safe rfing. Like I mentioned earlier, my 26# 3yo is still rfing.

Jennifer, LPN and nursing student, Doula, CPST, and VBAC mama x3 to
AJ (5/03), Evan (12/04), Ilana (11/06), Olivia (2/09), and Unity (8/2012)

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#15 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 03:06 PM
 
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I'm surpised at the car seat techs here at MDC automatically assuming the tech in this case was wrong without seeing the child, the seat and the car. My husband is a SafeKids car seat instructor near this tech and we have heard the other side. The tech did nothing wrong.

There are differing opinions on both sides of the rear facing issue after 12 months of age. There are a number of factors to be considered, including the parental decision - my understanding of this case was that the technician informed the parent of the option to either have the seat forward or rear facing (totally appropriate according to the guidelines and this child's size and age) and the father made the decision to have the seat turned around after discussion of both sides of the issue.

Great for nature studies! http://www.pleinairkids.com
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#16 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 03:45 PM
 
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I'm surpised at the car seat techs here at MDC automatically assuming the tech in this case was wrong without seeing the child, the seat and the car. My husband is a SafeKids car seat instructor near this tech and we have heard the other side. The tech did nothing wrong.

There are differing opinions on both sides of the rear facing issue after 12 months of age. There are a number of factors to be considered, including the parental decision - my understanding of this case was that the technician informed the parent of the option to either have the seat forward or rear facing (totally appropriate according to the guidelines and this child's size and age) and the father made the decision to have the seat turned around after discussion of both sides of the issue.
I have never heard a single safety advantage of turning a child FF.

In this case my understanding is the inspector did NOT see the child.

And no, just because the MINIMUM standard to turn ff is a year, does not mean it's an appropriate choice if the child can otherwise remain RF.

All sources I've ever seen say RF to the limits of the seat is safest.

Do you have information explaining otherwise?

-Angela
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#17 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 04:49 PM
 
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Actually the tech did see the child from what I understand, it was a safety inspection station.

There are newer research reports that state that if the child's feet are hitting the back of the seat they should be turned. You can actually find research on both sides of the issue.

Great for nature studies! http://www.pleinairkids.com
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#18 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 05:26 PM
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He was grossly incorrect. There is no information, NONE AT ALL, suggesting that forward facing such a tiny baby is correct.

Your tech was wrong and furthermore should be ashamed of himself.
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#19 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mandynee22 View Post
I did that today too... as I was changing the seat. His response? "Phil (the guy's name) said there's a new study. He said it's safer because of impact and legs..." I gave up and stopped listening.
The study must be so new that no one's heard of it.
I quoted all the real authorities, I sent him links to crash tests... I've done all that I can do. The seat will remain backwards though because otherwise there will be no car trips.
Thank you everyone


There is no new study. If Phil said so, he's lying through his teeth. That, or your husband is....
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#20 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 05:33 PM
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There are newer research reports that state that if the child's feet are hitting the back of the seat they should be turned. You can actually find research on both sides of the issue.
Uh, no, there are not.
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#21 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm surpised at the car seat techs here at MDC automatically assuming the tech in this case was wrong without seeing the child, the seat and the car. My husband is a SafeKids car seat instructor near this tech and we have heard the other side. The tech did nothing wrong.

There are differing opinions on both sides of the rear facing issue after 12 months of age. There are a number of factors to be considered, including the parental decision - my understanding of this case was that the technician informed the parent of the option to either have the seat forward or rear facing (totally appropriate according to the guidelines and this child's size and age) and the father made the decision to have the seat turned around after discussion of both sides of the issue.
He didn't inform him of the option, he told him he was better off being FF. He told him there were new studies. (Studies I still haven't been able to find and niether has anyone I've talked to but you're welcome to inform me of them)

(to answer other stuff)

No, Andrew wasn't there. The tech was told his age and size.
He isn't my husband, not that it matters- just clearing it up.
I know that the tech did say it. Richie (Andrew's dad) thought RF was best (since that's what I told him) up until that time

The seat has been turned back to rear facing :-)

Monther of Riley (11), Andrew (4) and Victoria (7 months)
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#22 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Actually the tech did see the child from what I understand, it was a safety inspection station.

There are newer research reports that state that if the child's feet are hitting the back of the seat they should be turned. You can actually find research on both sides of the issue.
It was a fire station with a tech.
Andrew was not there.
Where is this research? I would genuinly like to see it.

Monther of Riley (11), Andrew (4) and Victoria (7 months)
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#23 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 05:51 PM
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Where is this research? I would genuinly like to see it.
It doesn't exist
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#24 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 05:52 PM
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Oh, and sorry I called him your husband

And good for you for turning the seat back the way it ought to be
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#25 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 06:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HelloKitty View Post
I'm surpised at the car seat techs here at MDC automatically assuming the tech in this case was wrong without seeing the child, the seat and the car. My husband is a SafeKids car seat instructor near this tech and we have heard the other side. The tech did nothing wrong.

There are differing opinions on both sides of the rear facing issue after 12 months of age. There are a number of factors to be considered, including the parental decision - my understanding of this case was that the technician informed the parent of the option to either have the seat forward or rear facing (totally appropriate according to the guidelines and this child's size and age) and the father made the decision to have the seat turned around after discussion of both sides of the issue.
Where's the info backing up the other side?

Megan, momma to Colin and Ainsley
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#26 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 06:09 PM
 
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It doesn't exist
Of course it doesn't! Quite frankly, I'd rather have some broken legs over a broken neck.. but hey, that's jmo.

Megan, momma to Colin and Ainsley
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#27 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 06:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HelloKitty View Post
I'm surpised at the car seat techs here at MDC automatically assuming the tech in this case was wrong without seeing the child, the seat and the car. My husband is a SafeKids car seat instructor near this tech and we have heard the other side. The tech did nothing wrong.

There are differing opinions on both sides of the rear facing issue after 12 months of age. There are a number of factors to be considered, including the parental decision - my understanding of this case was that the technician informed the parent of the option to either have the seat forward or rear facing (totally appropriate according to the guidelines and this child's size and age) and the father made the decision to have the seat turned around after discussion of both sides of the issue.
In no circumstance is FF an option for a 22 pound 15 month old child, if there is ANY alternative. In this case, it most definitely not an option.

There are techs out there who give out "bad" information. It sounds like this tech was one. If your husband is an instructor and believes that it is acceptable to encourage or even suggest that FF is appropriate for a 22 pound child who comes in RF and has parents that are supportive to ERF, I cringe at the fact that he is teaching new techs.

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#28 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 07:19 PM
 
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I just have to say that I our techs here on MDC.

Thank you ladies!

-Angela
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#29 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 09:21 PM
 
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I am a SK coordinator and I can tell you that no new information on turning kids forward facing sooner to protect their legs has come my way! I'll let you know if I hear it, but I don't think that will be happening anytime soon

sleepytime.gifC.- WOHM, CPST Instructor, and all around busy Mama to  blowkiss.gifA.- 02/04, bouncy.gif I. 01/07,babyf.gifE. 09/10 and

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#30 of 46 Old 03-30-2008, 10:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HelloKitty View Post
I'm surpised at the car seat techs here at MDC automatically assuming the tech in this case was wrong without seeing the child, the seat and the car. My husband is a SafeKids car seat instructor near this tech and we have heard the other side. The tech did nothing wrong.

There are differing opinions on both sides of the rear facing issue after 12 months of age.
Opinions are one thing; research, crash tests, outcomes of actual accidents are another. I'm more interested in what actually HAPPENS, not what someone's opinion is.

Quote:
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There are a number of factors to be considered, including the parental decision
Which in this case was to have the child rear-facing to the limits of the seat, but to have the *installation* of the seat checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloKitty View Post
my understanding of this case was that the technician informed the parent of the option to either have the seat forward or rear facing (totally appropriate according to the guidelines and this child's size and age) and the father made the decision to have the seat turned around after discussion of both sides of the issue.
The *guidelines* (from AAP, NTHSA, SafeKids, etc.) say to keep kids rear-facing as long as they are under the height and weight limits of the seat they are using. The LAW says it's ok to turn them forward-facing after they have reached both 12 months of age and 20 pounds of weight. One is a minimum, the other is a recommendation based on safety studies.
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