Bummed with breech. Update & request #21 - Mothering Forums
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June 2008 > Bummed with breech. Update & request #21
Nimbus's Avatar Nimbus 02:06 AM 06-06-2008
Please bear with me in my sob story. I'm really feeling sorry for myself right now...

So we found out on Monday that, yes, that is baby's head right up against my ribs and her bum settled on my lower left side. I've suspected this for over a month and have been doing yoga positions and the inclined ironing board trick, with no change. I had acupuncture and moxibustion yesterday, will continue moxibustion at home daily, and will repeat acupuncture again Monday.

I had my 37wk visit w/ my mw today and she encouraged scheduling a c-section for 38 or 39 weeks. I asked if there was anything else I could be doing and she said we could try a version first. I didn't want to resort to that, but feel like I need to try everything I can to get my little girl here via vaginal birth. So, we're scheduling a version for Thursday, 6/12 at 38w2d.

I cried like three times during the appointment and several times afterwards. This is not at all how I envisioned things. I had my ds naturally in 3 hours 45 minutes from start to finish. I envisioned having my dd naturally as well but in water this time. I'm having a really difficult time not feeling heartbroken. I need to get to the point where I'm at peace with whatever happens. The most important thing is our little girl arrives safely and is healthy. I have to keep reminding myself of that...:

mandalin24kd's Avatar mandalin24kd 02:13 AM 06-06-2008
Will your hcp not do breech vaginally? That would suck!!!! My hb midwife has done several at home breech babies this year alone and I know you could do it!!!!

Either way, baby will come as she intends too!!
ollineeba's Avatar ollineeba 02:14 AM 06-06-2008
Not in your ddc, but didn't want to read and not respond..
I hope your little one turns for you on her own soon. Sending peaceful thoughts your way.
MamaHen2J&J's Avatar MamaHen2J&J 02:16 AM 06-06-2008
Vent away!!

Mama... I sure hope your baby turns on its own...otherwise I think its wise to try the version... Let us know how it goes...

You're in my thoughts!!
Synchro246's Avatar Synchro246 02:40 AM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimbus View Post
I had my 37wk visit w/ my mw today and she encouraged scheduling a c-section for 38 or 39 weeks.
What are your thoughts about a scheduled cesarean vs. a cesarean when labor starts?
I don't see why scheduling surgery for 38-39 weeks would be advantageous over waiting and seeing when there's a good 3-4 weeks of window for the baby to turn. What kind of breech position is baby in?
Kylahroo's Avatar Kylahroo 02:45 AM 06-06-2008
Is she transverse or is her butt settled in your pelvis? I wasn't sure from your post, but it sounds as if her butt's not quite in your pelvis. Can you find someone to support you through a vaginal breech birth?
saimeiyu's Avatar saimeiyu 02:52 AM 06-06-2008
Just found you via New Posts. Hope you don't mind.

Couple of things to consider:

Have you gone to a Chiropracter who can do the Webster Technique?
What about spinningbabies.com? Have you tried anything besides the ironing board and yoga stuff? How much swimming have you been doing? Any? Swimming can help a lot with baby's position.

It's still fairly early to be hard-core worrying about this, really, though, unless you have an unusually shaped uterus. Lots of babies flip days before labor, or even IN labor.

Why not try vag. breech delivery? Is your MW not OK with it? Not have experience?
What about finding a new HCP who is familiar and OK with vag. breech deliveries?
Are YOU afraid of it? How much research into it have you done? The most recent studies say that even with an unskilled attendant, vag breech delivery is nearly the same in terms of outcomes as c/s. If you have a skilled HCP, it's much safer to do a vag breech delivery with most types of breech.
The latest study from the cochrane review said that "At two years, there were no differences in the combined outcome 'death or neurodevelopmental delay'. Maternal outcomes at 2 years were also similar."
(even though at birth the group favored C/S. The ACOG recommends c/s for breech, based on the birth data). http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab000166.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/78352.php

Of course, if you plan on having more kids, there's a *really* good reason to avoid a c/s.

Also:
Why schedule the C/S early? Does your MW give you a reason for that or is it her standard procedure? Are you OK with waiting until labor starts, laboring for a while, and THEN going in for a C/S?

Well, anyhow. Just some thoughts. I hope your babe flips for ya! And that all goes well and you have a smooth labor, delivery, and recovery.
starparticle's Avatar starparticle 02:53 AM 06-06-2008
(crashing - sorry!)

I know there are providers that offer vaginal breech in our area...also wonder about allowing you to at least start labor on your own to make sure she has the right amount of cook time - unless there is an immediate concern for prolapse.

also, check this out:

http://www.ican-online.org/pregnancy/breech

Turn baby, turn! Hang in there!!

(edited to add: not trying to make you feel like you need to FIGHT FIGHT for your right at a vaginal birth - just if you are feeling really trapped there are still some options. Deciding on the c/s is a huge decision (i've been there!) and feeling disappointed is lame thing to go through)
JustVanessa's Avatar JustVanessa 03:02 AM 06-06-2008
mama
Lots of good advice from pp. Try to stay positive!
MamaHen2J&J's Avatar MamaHen2J&J 03:53 AM 06-06-2008
Good advice ladies!

I still think there's time... Keep us updated!!
BlueMoonBean's Avatar BlueMoonBean 10:38 AM 06-06-2008
Looks like great advice from the pp...

Sending you wishes for peace and for a babe that turns all on his/her own!
MamaDee4's Avatar MamaDee4 11:16 AM 06-06-2008
There are lots of tricks you can do to encourage baby to turn, too. If you haven't tried them already. There are different positions,etc. I remember playing soothing music "down there" while putting a frozen bag of peas up high to get my baby to turn--with my bum in the air, I think! LOL!

I was in the same boat. My Dr. would not attemp a breech, either. But he would do a version. That in itself was a blessing b/c alot of Dr.s don't even try that. So that's what we did. Not my best option, but better than a C-section. And it worked. Once the baby was turned, he stayed put.

I agree that there is lots of time for baby to turn, but if your Dr. will NOT agree to wait that long and you can't find someone who will, a version may be the next best thing.

Dee
Nimbus's Avatar Nimbus 11:50 AM 06-06-2008
Thanks for all the positive replies. My mw won't do a breech birth, so I'd need to switch if I wanted to go that route. Not sure how I'd feel about that right now. I'm going to talk to my mw's office this morning and see how long they'll wait. I think I can get them to hold off on scheduling the c/s until 41 weeks, if I push for that.

I'm going to try to get in a pool this evening and swim and dive for a bit. Right now my plan is to keep doing the yoga, acupuncture, moxibustion, add in swimming, and see about getting into a chiro for the Webster technique. I'll also go in for the version in a week and see what happens.

In the meantime, is it helpful to try natural induction techniques to get baby thinking that it's time to get in position? I have RRL, EPO, and I'm sure my dh is willing to provide as much natural prostoglandin as I'm willing to accept.
Suggestions? Or should I hold off on that and wait for baby to decide it's time? (I'm 37w3d.)
kltroy's Avatar kltroy 12:25 PM 06-06-2008
That sucks - I've BTDT, and if I had to do it all again this is what I'd suggest to you:
1. Wait and schedule the c/s for at least 39 weeks - later if they'll let you. Might as well give your baby as much time to cook as possible. I know - once you "give up" and make your peace with it you just want it to happen yesterday, but I would really wait until at least 39 weeks if you can.
2. Try an ECV. You've already had at least one baby so there's more space in your uterus for the baby to flip if he/she is so inclined.
3. Continue with the moxibustion, chiropractic, and swimming. You never know if your baby might change its mind.
4. Do a lot of talking to your baby, watch some wonderful birth videos if you can and explain to your baby that he/she has to turn head down so that she can be born.

You've got a "proven pelvis" so you might actually be able to find an HCP who would do a breech delivery for you if your baby is frank breech. Your MW may know someone (usually their experience would be in delivering twins where one is breech - really, there aren't that many breech babies so even experienced HCPs don't often have that much experience) or someone from your local ICAN group may be able to give you a name.

C-sections are not the end of the world, but they are no fun to recovery from, and I can't imagine how it would be with a toddler running around. Avoid it if you can. Plus, if you're thinking about having another child you'll be stuck with a VBAC, and that can impact your future choices (something I had not considered when I had a c/s with my first - not that I had a choice).

No matter what happens, I would start thinking about a c-birth plan just in case. See what the policies are, think about what's important. Watch a video of a c-section (for breech even) - the National Library of Medicine has a bunch of surgery videos on their website and I found this to be helpful when preparing for my own a couple years ago. Hrm... just looked for the link and it appears to have been removed. Bummer, because it was a very good video.

As for your induction question, no I would not do anything to encourage labor at this point. I think it's probably better to give the baby as much time as possible to turn on its own.

Good luck - sending you lots of head-down baby vibes!!
starparticle's Avatar starparticle 12:51 PM 06-06-2008
About switching...don't be shy about this. She is a professional and I can guarantee she has been through it before. Also, either way she won't be doing your birth (unless she can do the c/s??). It might also encourage her to brush up on her breech skills for future births! I know that there was recently a midwives of washington meeting with a focus on breech and the tides are changing...

Also consider joining us ladies at ICAN - we've all been through this and have some wonderful resources for preparing to do a c/s (birth plans and recovery tips).
klink2's Avatar klink2 01:07 PM 06-06-2008
Does your midwife work with a backup OB? Someone she would call if she needed to do a transfer? Perhaps that person would be willing to do a breech delivery? Hey and don't forget the vibrator trick that was posted a couple of weeks ago. Vibrator or vibrating toothbrush on the baby's head, wasn't it?
Synchro246's Avatar Synchro246 01:16 PM 06-06-2008
Also, there's lots of great threads in the pregnancy & birth forums about babies who turned at the last moment. I know a couple that turned the morning of labor.
Good Luck mama
balancedmama's Avatar balancedmama 03:10 PM 06-06-2008
I just wanted to offer hugs, mama. This much be very hard. I also agree to get into a chiro ASAP. My good friend just went through this at almost 38 weeks and her LO turned in the 5 days between finding out about position and her scheduled version. She mostly did chiro and acupuncture.
Lizafava's Avatar Lizafava 06:45 PM 06-06-2008
Have you tried posting in the Finding your Tribe forum about a CP that does vaginal breech births? You would not even have to commit to transferring care, but just figure out what is possible, and maybe interview a couple people. It sounds like with your history, if baby is frank or even complete, there will be CPs who can help you.

I really hope your MW will help you find someone if you decide to explore that option. But if not, I'm sure some WA mamas here will.

Good luck!!
nfpmom's Avatar nfpmom 09:02 AM 06-07-2008
Do the version! Don't just sign up for a CS without trying it!
Some of our local homebirth midiwives do in-home versions, they are not this big scary thing that some folks make them out to be. Our local breech-friendly OB (who does do breech births in 1st time moms) does all of his versions in-office, without terbutaline, etc.
Don't schedule the CS early. Wait to go into labor at the very least.
And do the version ASAP. oftentimes breech babies come early,often times with your water breaking first.
Nimbus's Avatar Nimbus 03:04 PM 06-12-2008
38w3d Still breech.

For the last week, I've been doing breech tilts, yoga, Pulsatilla, swimming, moxibustion, acupuncture, chiropractics, meditation... and crying. My little one is still in exactly the same position. I'm scheduled for an external version on Saturday, but I think the statistical chances of that working are something like 30-40% lower than the chiropractics working, so I'm not holding that out as "the" solution. On the plus side, I think I've talked my mw into waiting to schedule a c-section for 42 weeks. That gives us a bit more time, but I'm pretty much obsessing about getting the baby head down. However, I'm still supposed to be working and I'm trying to make it to 2-3 baby related appointments daily. It's basically the entire focus of my life right now and I can't imagine this continuing for another 3 weeks.

I'd like to ask you all to send positive, spinning, head-down vibes to my little one. Help me encourage her to get her head down into position as soon as she's ready to join the family. We're eager to meet her and would love to welcome her into the world in the most natural way possible.
BirthFree's Avatar BirthFree 03:17 PM 06-12-2008
I have a good friend (who ended up being a VBAC doula client later) who went through the exact same thing you're talking about - she ended up at the hospital in labor at 8cm dilated... but still a breech... and here in my city, no one at all will do a breech birth (they'd rather lick the hospital floor clean)... so she had a cesarean.

Is there anyone who will do a breech birth in your area? Are you comfortable laboring for a while to see if baby will turn in labor perhaps?

Either way, you have my admiration for all the effort (both mental and physical) that you are putting into this. It has to be some comfort that if you don't have your wee one vaginally that you DID put all that you possibly could into trying...

Blessings and thoughts!
Nimbus's Avatar Nimbus 03:29 PM 06-12-2008
I'm not sure yet if I'd feel okay doing a vaginal breech birth. At this point, baby's actually diagonal -- neither fully breech nor transverse, so she wouldn't make it out that way no matter how hard I tried.

I'm completely comfortable waiting to go into labor and seeing if she'll turn at the onset or during labor. My mw agreed to let me go into labor (if it happens before 42 weeks), but said I need to get to the hospital as soon as labor starts in case the baby is still breech/transverse and they need to do a c-section.

I can be at peace with that. If the baby stays in her current position and I end up having a c/s, I'll know I've done all I could to help her get head down.
beanmakes3's Avatar beanmakes3 05:41 PM 06-12-2008
, mama. I think you've totally given it your all. I'm sending you all the positive thoughts I can muster! You have your priorities straight IMHO, and I believe you will make the right call when necessary. Good Luck!
kltroy's Avatar kltroy 06:16 PM 06-12-2008
That stinks, Nimbus. I really hope your baby turns for you, but at least you'll have the peace of mind that you did everything possible to help your LO flip around. Sometimes babies just need to stay head up and we never know why I'll continue to think spinning baby thoughts for you. ...and you never know - the ECV may just work. It has a decent success rate on non-first-pregnancies. Either way, sending peaceful birth thoughts your way.
~*~MamaJava~*~'s Avatar ~*~MamaJava~*~ 06:32 PM 06-12-2008
hope things are improving! anecdotally swimming (breechbabies.com) and doing headstands has worked for two family members in the last 2 months - one transverse babe and one footling breech.
i am so glad you've managed to have your mw wait til 42 weeks for a section. lots of time!

hang in there - we feel for you!
bc1995's Avatar bc1995 06:36 PM 06-12-2008
I am sending tons of turning vibes your way!! Dd was breech until almost 39 weeks. I was a complete and total wreck worrying about it. I was out raking leaves when she finally turned.
3cuties's Avatar 3cuties 08:26 PM 06-12-2008
Wow, you have really done everything! You are amazing and should feel that you have done absolutely everything in your power. I will be thinking of you and hoping your baby turns.
neomia's Avatar neomia 08:34 PM 06-12-2008
You say swimming, but have you done deep diving? Worked for me, and the midwife that wrote about it said it has never failed for her. I was in a pool that went to 12 feet and went down twice. She said it can take 3 or 4 times I believe. Good luck mama.
mamaspirit's Avatar mamaspirit 09:30 PM 06-12-2008
I'm sorry you are having to go through this! My baby kept turning breech and I'd get her to turn and than she would flip again. I finally got her to stay down after I used a vibrator up by her head. Than during labor she flipped to transverse which can't be delivered vaginally and I ended up with a c-section. I wish she had flipped back to breech as my midwife would have been ok delivering her breech.

My point is sometimes little babies have a reason for not want to go head down and we may never understand why. I really think that my baby knew that it couldn't come out my vagina and thats why she flipped back.

I had the c-section at Tacoma General and they were great with us even though we were a home birth transfer. They allowed us to opt out of vitamin k shot and the eye ointment and were even very supportive of us cloth diapering and breastfeeding immediately. I breastfed my baby 30 minutes after she was born, as soon as I was in recovery. My husband held her right beside me while they stitched me up. Since we didn't know her gender they allowed my husband to tell me that she was a girl. All in all we had a positive experience despite needing a c-section. Is there a way you could go to Tacoma General?

I have heard of babies flipping head down halfway through labor (actually I did that when I was being born), I hope something like that happens for you! But remember that even if it doesn't happen you can still have a gentle, beautiful birth even with a c-section!

You are in my thoughts!
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