The Certified Letter-Fired by OB - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 05:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Blu Razzberri View Post
Pardon?? The level of anger here towards one-another is TOTALLY uncalled for! I understand the issue itself is sensitive; but for the OP to get so upset because someone responded with what they knew (not even saying this was what always happens; or that the OP was doing anything to get fired); and then for you to pull the claws out on me for defending the reply; just totally unnecessary all around! Can we have some productive discussion instead of all getting mad at one-another??!!
im not exactly where you are getting anger toward anyone here. i am certainly not angry..actually i am on a path right now of reducing stress and focusing on the positive.....what i said was not out of anger. I believe you were the one who stated that the OP should refrain from making a statement...

no claws here at all.

the productive discussion was hopefully going to center around the fact that dr's are not losing their shirts. sure, some dr's are sued and some lose but the rate of suits against dr's is overwhelmingly on teh dr's sides..not the patients suing. it is very difficult to WIN a case against a dr. If anyone is to blame, its the dr's for not standing up to their risk management teams at hospitals and their malpractice insurance co's..b/c those ppl should not be making medical decisions for women. period.

as an attorney, i would love to see a documented case against a dr. that was WON where the patient stated they did not want the procedure but then sued b/c the procedure was done. it just does not happen.

again..kill all the lawyers. its only the lawyers who are protecting patients, and most states cap liability, etc. etc. so the lawyers cant do that most of the time.

its a horrible horrible BIRTH climate. and OB's have attempted to take over this industry. MW's are much better at birth...however, i fear they too are being put into the same position....scared all the time of what "may" happen instead of looking at birth as what it is..the most natural thing that humans do. If we always needed all these interventions, we wouldnt have survived as a human race, yk?

to the OP, again, i say FILE A COMPLAINT AGAINST THIS DR. what he did was not just immoral, it was unethical. You should have been told why he was dropping you...to your face...not by receipt of a cert'd letter.
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#32 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 05:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alicia9178 View Post
...I am not "upset"...
Excellent.

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Originally Posted by alicia9178 View Post
...you HAVE to watch the Buisness of Being Born...
I'm hoping my sister picks up a copy when she's at the movie store tonight! I told her about it yesterday; and am currently holding my breath... (note: I'm not mad, I'm oxygen deprived )

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...some people are sue-crazy...we ultimatly all pay for that...
Very true; and very sad.

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
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#33 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 05:43 PM
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the productive discussion was hopefully going to center around the fact that dr's are not losing their shirts. sure, some dr's are sued and some lose but the rate of suits against dr's is overwhelmingly on teh dr's sides..not the patients suing. it is very difficult to WIN a case against a dr. If anyone is to blame, its the dr's for not standing up to their risk management teams at hospitals and their malpractice insurance co's..b/c those ppl should not be making medical decisions for women. period.
You make it sound so easy. As an attorney, you probably know that "standard of care" is set on both a local and national level, and that individual doctors and even individual hospitals have very little effect on this in general. Certainly there is a problem, and things need to be changed, but unfortunately doctors continue to practice, and women continue to have babies in the very imperfect system we have NOW, and as a practical matter we all have to find individual ways to deal with that system.
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as an attorney, i would love to see a documented case against a dr. that was WON where the patient stated they did not want the procedure but then sued b/c the procedure was done. it just does not happen.
Also as an attorney, you should know that you have just described the tort of battery (the unauthorized or unwanted touching of one person by another) and possibly assault (placing someone in fear or apprehension of such touching). Doctors can and have been sued successfully for that--in fact, just such a blackletter case appeared in my law school torts textbook--Mohr v. Williams, 104 N.W. 12 (Minn. 1905). Regardless, that's not the situation that's being discussed here. What is being discussed is if a doctor goes against "standard of care" and/or their own best judgment to provide the care that the patient requests, and something goes wrong. I don't happen to have any cases off the top of my head for that, and considering that I have actual paid work to be doing at the moment, I'm not going to run a search for you. Suffice it to say, I have heard many anecdotal reports of this happening, and there's no legal reason why those reports shouldn't be true. It doesn't have to happen all the time to be a problem--it only has to happen once--to you.
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again..kill all the lawyers. its only the lawyers who are protecting patients, and most states cap liability, etc. etc. so the lawyers cant do that most of the time.
You're most definitely pitching this argument at the wrong person. As an attorney myself, I am often offended by the way lawyers are talked about in medical circles, by people who fail to recognize that there are good lawyers and bad lawyers just the same as there are for doctors, and who fail to see that lawyers (like doctors) are working within a system which they did not create, and which has many good points as well as bad points.

Mom to sweet DD 8/08, and adorable DS 10/20/10
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#34 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 05:55 PM
 
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This thread has illustrated exactly why I chose to have a home birth.

Because birth is birth and it simply should not be this complicated!!!

Nik! Mama to Evelynn Rose 08/19/08 and Autumn Lily 11/02/10
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#35 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 06:14 PM
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This thread has illustrated exactly why I chose to have a home birth.

Because birth is birth and it simply should not be this complicated!!!
I don't blame you a bit! I very well may do that myself next time around, but I'm going to give this hospital thing a shot this time....

Mom to sweet DD 8/08, and adorable DS 10/20/10
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#36 of 41 Old 05-01-2008, 07:32 AM
 
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You make it sound so easy.
I certainly didnt intend to make it sound easy. Birth in the USA is one of the most complicated situations a well informed woman will find herself experiencing...its not easy, its not clear and its certainly not being presented by many dr's in a manner that is either clear or honest, in many situations.

I do not want to get into a legal debate...but when I see dr's defended here, its a bit of a slap in the face, as this is one resource that many women have to escape the "pro c/s, intervention heavy" culture of the current birth climate.

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As an attorney, you probably know that "standard of care" is set on both a local and national level, and that individual doctors and even individual hospitals have very little effect on this in general.
women keep trying to say NO to interventions...and NO to c/s's....and look what is happening to them? they get dropped....they are bascially abandoned....dr's refuse to take ppl who are "too high risk" (huh??? that just amazes me...dr's refuse to take women b/c they are inept to treat their medical conditions...just insane that they are allowed to risk out women from their care like that). dr's and hospitals are the ones who are profiting here..so IMHO they are the ones who need to change. Just as I would expect the pharmaceutical manufacturers to stop lying about vaccines....consumer groups et al can yell all they want but we need teh ppl who are profiting to stop lying to us.


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Originally Posted by hyz View Post
Also as an attorney, you should know that you have just described the tort of battery (the unauthorized or unwanted touching of one person by another) and possibly assault (placing someone in fear or apprehension of such touching). Doctors can and have been sued successfully for that--in fact, just such a blackletter case appeared in my law school torts textbook--Mohr v. Williams, 104 N.W. 12 (Minn. 1905).
Are you seriously citing a 1905 case here? Do you seriously believe that assaults and batteries do not exist in hospitals on a daily basis? Im a bit confused by this reference and the implication that you believe A&B is actionable against dr's and hospitals right now. I'm not going to go dig up the case (can if you ask...but really..i don't come to MDC to debate legal theory)....of a man who went to a hospital w/ an injury. they wanted to do a rectal examination and he did NOT want it. He screamed that he did NOT want it..they held him down and sedated him and gave him the rectal exam anyway (on the basis that they needed to rule out spinal injury - you would think the kicking and thrashing would have comforted them that his spine was ok). he sued. and LOST. That case, IMHO, pales in comparison to what happens to women on a day to day basis. And as far as I am concerned, informed consent is laughable in the birthing process. Dr's routinely tell women thigns that are just NOT true (e.g., 50% of VBAC babies die..thats a new one just revealed on the ICAN list).


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I don't happen to have any cases off the top of my head for that, and considering that I have actual paid work to be doing at the moment, I'm not going to run a search for you.
no need. i actually do not have a desire to read any law cases at this point, as I am currently in the process of focusing on my pregnancy and young children. I have been around the birthing community enough over the last several years to be firm in my convictions. But please....consider that perhaps you don't know all that you believe to be "true" simply from reading case law. Most of the trauma experienced by women in our current birthing climate is not going to end up in a law book.


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You're most definitely pitching this argument at the wrong person. As an attorney myself, I am often offended by the way lawyers are talked about in medical circles, by people who fail to recognize that there are good lawyers and bad lawyers just the same as there are for doctors, and who fail to see that lawyers (like doctors) are working within a system which they did not create, and which has many good points as well as bad points.
I am not pitching this argument to you...I simply responded w/ my beliefs in this thread re: the horrible treatment that many women receive at the hands of OBs. If I had my way in teh world, we would eliminate OB's from the business of birth and reserve them as the surgeons they are....which would assist many women and children in this country. They are not trained in natural child birth and should not be touting themselves as experienced as such.

sorry but I don't see the good points in the current environment, absent an emergency birth.
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#37 of 41 Old 05-01-2008, 07:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by holothuroidea View Post
This thread has illustrated exactly why I chose to have a home birth.

Because birth is birth and it simply should not be this complicated!!!
exactly!!!! you should not have to sign all kinds of waivers for this and that, etc. etc. etc...fighting the battle from your first visit w/ the OB until you hopefully take your baby home....my birth with my MW was night and day compared to my births with the OB's. I would never have believed how different unless i had experienced it.
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#38 of 41 Old 05-01-2008, 12:09 PM
 
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(I'm in Canada)
I'm shocked to learn that your doctor can just 'get rid of you'; especially this far into your pregnancy!! Aren't there laws to protect you or something??
What she said, except I'm not in Canada.

That just really blows. Why didn't they let you know earlier???? Especially since this has been your healthiest pregnancy.
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#39 of 41 Old 05-01-2008, 02:09 PM
 
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I think that you can have a great homebirth with your midwife. However, I do think I'd clear some things up with this doctor, possibly for your own peace of mind, possibly so that maybe he'll stop and think differently the next time he encounters this situation. You may call and schedule a time to sit and talk with him. I'd bring someone along and ask for his nurse to be present. I'd personally want to know why he was "firing" you, what his concerns are, why didn't he discuss them with you prior to the letter (I believe that he has to send the letter for his own records), I'd also ask him what is it that he thinks you should do for care (he is supposed to transfer care, not terminate). I'd tell him what your feelings are here in a calm but firm way and how you believe he could have handled it better. Then, I'd move on. Good luck. I hope it all works out just the way you want it and you can leave this behind you.

Jessica, mama to Emma, 7, Mattie, 5.5 and Lilly, 3 and someone new this Halloween-ish.

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#40 of 41 Old 05-01-2008, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I actually for my peace of mind am getting my records from the office. They tried to tell me I would have to pay 0.20 per page, but I kindly reminded them since they discontinued care with me, not vice versa that I would not be paying and expect my records by the end of the week. So those will be insightful.
Alicia

 

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#41 of 41 Old 05-01-2008, 08:02 PM
 
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I was dropped by an ob/gyn... BEFORE I WAS EVEN PREGNANT.

I was seeing this doctor for gynecology, NOT obstetrics. He knew I was going to be a surrogate for my best friend, and he was supposed to remove my IUD for me the week after I got my period. While I was in for an appointment, he started talking obstetrics, and I stopped him, saying I had a home birth with my son, and I was planning the same thing with the future surrobabe. He fired me right then and there, saying homebirth midwives had NO TRAINING, and that they just paid the state for their licenses. He told me that if I were to go the homebirth route, he would still remove my IUD for me since he already promised to do that, but he would never see me again. I said, "even afterward, just for gynecology??" He said, "NEVER". I said that was fine, and on my way home, made an appointment at Planned Parenthood to have my IUD removed. I wasn't going back to that jerk.

Since then, I decided to have this babe unassisted. I think it will be a hoot to send him a birth announcement saying that I took his advice and didn't go with a midwife... because I DID IT MYSELF
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