The Certified Letter-Fired by OB - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 41 Old 04-29-2008, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
alicia9178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So...I got home today and found a notice for a certified letter at my door. I literally got in my truck and tracked down the mail lady...the stalker side of me...lol. It was fro mmy OB...they have decided...without my input that I am to high risk to deliver at the same hospital I have had 4 of my 5 babies at and so they are discontinuing my care. I am sick. Being back in OH the ONLY thing that I felt ok with was being able to deliver at the same place I had been at so many times if necesary. I know what I can get away with there, and I know I can sign baby out AMA with out an issue.

So now I am stuck. It will be hard pressed to find a Dr who will look at my chart and history and really want to take me on as a client. I am planning a HBAC, but the reality is I have to also prepare that I could need a hospital...and where does that leave me???? I am feeling as though I live in the twilight zone with everything that has happened the past few months.

ALicia

 

 Get "101 Tips That Burn Belly Fat Daily
    For  Free thumb.gif , Visit Here 

 

 
alicia9178 is offline  
#2 of 41 Old 04-29-2008, 06:40 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 1,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


....

I don't know what to say... It just makes me so mad!!!! You're going to have your HBAC, you should tape it and strap them to chairs and force them to watch it. Like, really shove it in their face.

Too high risk? Did your uterus explode or something? That seems so outrageous to me, "we can't take care of you because the risk is too high." Risk of what? Risk of malpractice, that's what.

RAAAWRRR *rampage*


*heavy sigh*

Nik! Mama to Evelynn Rose 08/19/08 and Autumn Lily 11/02/10
holothuroidea is offline  
#3 of 41 Old 04-29-2008, 06:47 PM
 
MySunflowerBoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh no! What rotten news! I'm so sorry, hope you can find a better, more confident OB to back you up.

I'm Deborah, mama to Aidan, 11/02, Sean, 9/04 (my T21 SuperBoy), and Eleanor, 8/08.
MySunflowerBoys is offline  
#4 of 41 Old 04-29-2008, 07:40 PM
 
robertandenith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what? that's just bizarre!!!! I can't believe it, is there a reason to believe you are at high risk?

Latina Mama of 3 and Wife of a great man since 1997
: : : : : : :
robertandenith is offline  
#5 of 41 Old 04-29-2008, 07:44 PM
 
veganf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Framingham, MA
Posts: 8,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you just show up at the ER in active labor they can't turn you away. Not ideal, but if you do feel the need to birth at the hospital...

milk donation : mother to Ryan (6), AJ (5), Nate (2), Maia (1) all born at home, I have a kid-friendly food & bento blog, : :
veganf is offline  
#6 of 41 Old 04-29-2008, 08:10 PM
 
fyoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Keep planning on having your HBAC. Think positive!!! If you have to transfer, there is always the ER. But think positive in that you won't have to transfer I hate OBs for normal birth honestly, and will only see one if something absolutely *MAJOR* is going wrong (no longer normal birth).
fyoosh is offline  
#7 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
alicia9178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertandenith View Post
what? that's just bizarre!!!! I can't believe it, is there a reason to believe you are at high risk?

I have insulin resistance related to PCOS...my blood sugars have been perfect with oral medication, but they keep LABELING me GD. On top of that I am VBACing . Then there is the fact that this is my 6th birth..., you know you can hemorrhage if you have to many babies. Oh...and a history of pregnancy induced hypertension in 2 of my 5 previous pregnancies.

Ironically I have been healthier with this pregnancy then my previous 3 that this SAME office cared for 2 of those 3. It basically boils down to the fact that I am difficult...I ask questions, I challenge their protocols, I refuse to just bend over and take whatever they say without good reason....it all boils down to the fact that I am a "BAD" patient .

So now I am faced with either going to rest of the pregnancy with no prenatal care...or searching for some other S-OB to "care" for me.

Ironically I feel better not having to deal with them...last night I was cleaning the kitchen and just felt a release in a way.
Alicia

 

 Get "101 Tips That Burn Belly Fat Daily
    For  Free thumb.gif , Visit Here 

 

 
alicia9178 is offline  
#8 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 09:25 AM
 
westernskies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That is terrible I am sorry! I know you are planning a HBAC (GO YOU!!!) but if you were not, what in the world were you supposed to do? That is absurd that an OB can fire YOU. I have heard of people firing their OB, but the other way around is nuts. Are you seeing a midwife at all or are you planning a UC?
westernskies is offline  
#9 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
alicia9178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do have a midwife who will attending out HBAC hopefully. She is phenominal and very supportive. I am at the point now where we are saying that we will step in the hospital if there is a medical need...signs of PIH, complications during labor, etc. The good thing is that at that point I get to make the choice where I can go...and so I can then go to the hospital that I would have been at and have had all my babies at.
Alicia

 

 Get "101 Tips That Burn Belly Fat Daily
    For  Free thumb.gif , Visit Here 

 

 
alicia9178 is offline  
#10 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 10:45 AM
 
meredyth0315's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh Alicia, I'm so sorry! But you know this got me thinking...

OB's always make themselves out to be heroes, but by them saying you're too high risk just shows how inept they are. They should be doing everything they can for you, sending you to a peri and so forth, but to just drop you from their care, well that says what kind of "care" providers they are and you certainly don't need them!!! I would even be tempted to seek legal advice since their concerns are so many about your pg, but yet they don't want to deal with you. Just absolutely insane :

I'm glad to hear you have a mw that will be attending. You can always go to the hospital you're comfortable with *if* the need to transfer arises. I'm doing an HBA2C and don't see any need for interventions - keep thinking positive thoughts and you'll have your VBAC!!!!!

Meredyth partners.gif Travis, Mama to my boys J, L, E & my girl B
Bella Rose is here 07/29/10!
Always missing my angel1.gif
meredyth0315 is offline  
#11 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 10:52 AM
 
PassionateWriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicia9178 View Post
So...I got home today and found a notice for a certified letter at my door. I literally got in my truck and tracked down the mail lady...the stalker side of me...lol. It was fro mmy OB...they have decided...without my input that I am to high risk to deliver at the same hospital I have had 4 of my 5 babies at and so they are discontinuing my care. I am sick. Being back in OH the ONLY thing that I felt ok with was being able to deliver at the same place I had been at so many times if necesary. I know what I can get away with there, and I know I can sign baby out AMA with out an issue.

So now I am stuck. It will be hard pressed to find a Dr who will look at my chart and history and really want to take me on as a client. I am planning a HBAC, but the reality is I have to also prepare that I could need a hospital...and where does that leave me???? I am feeling as though I live in the twilight zone with everything that has happened the past few months.

ALicia
seriously, i konw this is going to be a hard pill to swallow but look at this as a blessing. you arent 38 weeks and having to search for a care provider....and now you know their attitude. nothing is preventing you from transferring to that hospital if you have to in an emergency.

i just had to fire my MW at 18 weeks. i literally feel sick w/ dread but yk, she wont be at my birth, hindering my progress, yk? that will be a good thing regardless.

on another note, i would seriously file a complaint w/ teh medical board. this should have been discussed with you. if they want to send a certified letter, fine. but that should not be your first notification that they didnt want to take you. thats just mean and wrong.

good luck in your search. i bet you find someone great (and this is coming from someone who lives in a state that prevents any MW from attending me....check out my other thread "looking for a hbac MW in NH"..not an easy thing to do).

you WILL find someone. and you WILL have a great birth. just keep repeating that to yourself and try to stay positive. stress hormones are NOT good, yk. s
PassionateWriter is offline  
#12 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 11:05 AM
 
Blu Razzberri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,748
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(I'm in Canada)
I'm shocked to learn that your doctor can just 'get rid of you'; especially this far into your pregnancy!! Aren't there laws to protect you or something??

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
Blu Razzberri is offline  
#13 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 11:42 AM
 
robertandenith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am sending you good vibes to you, that's just stupid. I totally agree with what meredyth0315 says, that's one of the reasons I have a midwife this time around. Then how come many years ago women used to birth more than 10 kids with no problem? There is always the emergency room, BUT I know you can do it on your own...

Latina Mama of 3 and Wife of a great man since 1997
: : : : : : :
robertandenith is offline  
#14 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 12:14 PM
hyz
 
hyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 682
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Razzberri View Post
(I'm in Canada)
I'm shocked to learn that your doctor can just 'get rid of you'; especially this far into your pregnancy!! Aren't there laws to protect you or something??
My DH is a medical resident, and as far as he's seen, patients are "fired" when they will not follow the doctor's advice in ways that the doctor believes will lead to high risk and possibly bad outcomes. The reality for doctors is that they know they can be sued for tons of money if something goes wrong, even if it went wrong because the patient wouldn't follow the doctor's recommendations. They can lose their homes, their life savings, and their licenses. Patients can and do claim that "the risks were never fully explained to them" and "they didn't understand" and "it's the doctor's job to give me the care I need--they went to medical school, not me"--even when the doctor repeatedly tried to make the risks of the patients preferences very clear, and documented those conversations.

It basically sucks on both sides, for patients and doctors. There is a legally established "standard of care", which isn't always good for patients, and which many doctors disagree with for lots of reasons. "Standard of care" can involve many unnecessary tests, procedures, etc.--all of which CAN be harmful to patients. However, if doctors don't follow this standard, they are extremely vulnerable to suit if something goes wrong. Doctors are more often sued for NOT doing something than for doing something (i.e. no monitoring vs. monitoring, no c-section vs. unnecessary c-section...). My DH's advice to me in this birthing process was to stay home as long as possible--as long as you are at home, they can't tell you what to do (i.e. no eating, IV hookups, constant fetal monitoring, limiting labor time, etc.), and you can't sue them. After that, try to be sure that you have a doctor whose philosphy is as similar to yours as possible--someone with a record of low surgical intervention, etc.--basically, someone who is willing to accept the personal risk associated with not following "standard of care" to the letter.

I don't know the situation in the OP's case--I'm sure some doctors are quicker to fire patients than others, and that can be really obnoxious--but I've never heard of a doctor firing a patient just because of their pure medical risk. If the doctor simply believes s/he is not equipped to handle that level of medical complication, they will generally refer to a more specialized physician. I suspect this is based more on the OP "challenging their protocols"--even if she was entirely reasonable (from our perspective) in doing so. I hope she will be able to find a doctor who's a better fit--this could be a real blessing in disguise.

Mom to sweet DD 8/08, and adorable DS 10/20/10
hyz is offline  
#15 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 12:51 PM
 
~Megan~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 15,310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well your chances of needing to transfer are quite low so it probably won't ever come up.

If you are using a midwife she probably has a hospital or set of doctors that she feels comfortable transferring to if needed.

I'm sorry they are mistreating you so much but in the end it will all be okay!

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
~Megan~ is offline  
#16 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 12:57 PM
 
Blu Razzberri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,748
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you 'hyz' for taking the time to clarify! That sounds like a seriously sucky situation for both the patient and the doctor at times! I feel bad for the OP given the timing!

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
Blu Razzberri is offline  
#17 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
alicia9178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyz View Post
My DH is a medical resident, and as far as he's seen, patients are "fired" when they will not follow the doctor's advice in ways that the doctor believes will lead to high risk and possibly bad outcomes. The reality for doctors is that they know they can be sued for tons of money if something goes wrong, even if it went wrong because the patient wouldn't follow the doctor's recommendations. They can lose their homes, their life savings, and their licenses. Patients can and do claim that "the risks were never fully explained to them" and "they didn't understand" and "it's the doctor's job to give me the care I need--they went to medical school, not me"--even when the doctor repeatedly tried to make the risks of the patients preferences very clear, and documented those conversations.

I don't know the situation in the OP's case--I'm sure some doctors are quicker to fire patients than others, and that can be really obnoxious--but I've never heard of a doctor firing a patient just because of their pure medical risk. If the doctor simply believes s/he is not equipped to handle that level of medical complication, they will generally refer to a more specialized physician. I suspect this is based more on the OP "challenging their protocols"--even if she was entirely reasonable (from our perspective) in doing so. I hope she will be able to find a doctor who's a better fit--this could be a real blessing in disguise.

First off...I did not go against anything the Dr recommended. I monitored blood sugars, had ultrasounds, saw the perinatologist, etc. I followed their requests. What I would not "agree" to was a scheduled C-section, which ultimatly was for the MDs convenience. I NEVER said I would refuse this or refuse that..I expressed my concerns with some procedures, but NEVER refused anything except an unnecessary C-section. I am a VERY educated person. I have worked L&D as a RN, and in the ER. The reality is that Dr's do not like to be challenged. The notion that a Dr will not fire someone for no reason is true in a way....they have reasons....reasons like they do not want to be challenged. The legal reality is that if you DOCUMENT accuratly and have the patient sign documentation that they have been EXPLAINED the risks and benefits and are taking responsibility for their actions...it is on the pt....INFORMED CONSENT !!!! I cannot dismiss what happened as right by the MD because of liability. If they had a problem with my u/s that I had (which was their excuse on why i was high risk), then call me into the office and discuss options with me. A certified letter shows an utter disrespect.
Alicia

 

 Get "101 Tips That Burn Belly Fat Daily
    For  Free thumb.gif , Visit Here 

 

 
alicia9178 is offline  
#18 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 01:40 PM
 
PassionateWriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
there are waiver forms for the dr's to have patients sign. Drs. are not liable for women who chose to provide AMA. Dr's fire patients all the time b/c alot of them feel they are gods and if women aren't listening to them, then those women just need to go away. it happens ALL THE TIME.

this whole liability scare is so overrated....patients who have been wronged by dr's LOSE 80% of the time. dr's arent losing their homes, cars, etc etc. b/c of a woman wanting some control over their medical care. the ones who do lose for one, most of them have malpractice insurance but two, the ones that lose are the ones that really really screw things up.

its always the lawyers that are blamed. *sigh*
PassionateWriter is offline  
#19 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 01:46 PM
 
AmyLaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The First Floor
Posts: 1,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicia9178 View Post
If they had a problem with my u/s that I had (which was their excuse on why i was high risk), then call me into the office and discuss options with me. A certified letter shows an utter disrespect.
Alicia
What did the U/S show??
AmyLaz is offline  
#20 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 01:46 PM
 
Blu Razzberri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,748
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicia9178 View Post
First off...I did not go against anything the Dr recommended....
Whoa whoa....she didn't say YOU specifically. She was talking about generally!

ETA: I really do feel bad for you. Isn't there anything you can do about this? I mean, you wouldn't want the same doctor, obviously; but some restitution or something?

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
Blu Razzberri is offline  
#21 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 01:48 PM
 
PassionateWriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Razzberri View Post
Whoa whoa....she didn't say YOU specifically. She was talking about generally!
then start a new thread. the implication was that the OP deserved to be "fired" due to not "obeying". Sometimes i do believe doctors think they are on the same level as G-d..they certainly treat their advice as if it were religious doctrine.
PassionateWriter is offline  
#22 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 02:07 PM
 
Blu Razzberri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,748
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
then start a new thread....
Pardon?? The level of anger here towards one-another is TOTALLY uncalled for! I understand the issue itself is sensitive; but for the OP to get so upset because someone responded with what they knew (not even saying this was what always happens; or that the OP was doing anything to get fired); and then for you to pull the claws out on me for defending the reply; just totally unnecessary all around! Can we have some productive discussion instead of all getting mad at one-another??!!

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
Blu Razzberri is offline  
#23 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
alicia9178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyLaz View Post
What did the U/S show??
The ultrasound showed a baby who was measuring to date for everything but her abdominal girth which was 3 weeks ahead...luckily for me it is not the belly that can get stuck in a birth . It also showed an amniotic fluid index of 20, which was at the higher end of normal.....SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Past that she was neurologically intact as far as can be seen by u/s, her heart was fine, and she has all of her pieces and parts.

So...to be honest....it showed a whole lot of NORMS!!

Alicia

 

 Get "101 Tips That Burn Belly Fat Daily
    For  Free thumb.gif , Visit Here 

 

 
alicia9178 is offline  
#24 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
alicia9178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Razzberri View Post
Pardon?? The level of anger here towards one-another is TOTALLY uncalled for! I understand the issue itself is sensitive; but for the OP to get so upset because someone responded with what they knew (not even saying this was what always happens; or that the OP was doing anything to get fired); and then for you to pull the claws out on me for defending the reply; just totally unnecessary all around! Can we have some productive discussion instead of all getting mad at one-another??!!
I was not "upset" just clarifying. I know there are plenty of people in the world whether maried to a Dr or not who get sucked into the "Dr's are God" mentality and they could not imagine that a Physician would do something based upon their ego and not in the interest of a pt. To be honest...what a poster online says or thinks about me does not matter...I know the situation I am in and I appretiate the support of being able to come to this group of women to sort through feelings/situations.

So...I am not "upset".
ALicia

 

 Get "101 Tips That Burn Belly Fat Daily
    For  Free thumb.gif , Visit Here 

 

 
alicia9178 is offline  
#25 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 03:05 PM
 
Sigrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Alaska
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm sorry they're doing this to you. Sending a certified letter is kinda lame too. They should've called you in and spoken with you.

SAHM to 3 boys ages 10, 7, and 3.

Sigrid is offline  
#26 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 03:15 PM
 
robertandenith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
maybe he wanted to go on a vacation trip and wanted to schedule a c-section? not that it might be the case but I have a friend who's doctor told her she wanted to induce earlier because she was going on a vacation, how incompetent is that?!?!? My last OB didn't want to 'deal' with a water birth because he said it was 'yucky'. Yes some OB's lack of the proper 'care' they are supposed to give to their patients, they want the easier way out and don't want to deal with other than an easier birth or c-section. Have you seen "The business of being born" documentary? I am so looking forward to get my hands on a copy!!!!

Latina Mama of 3 and Wife of a great man since 1997
: : : : : : :
robertandenith is offline  
#27 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
alicia9178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OH...you HAVE to watch the Buisness of Being Born....it was great. Highly reccomend it to anyone pregnant or planning on becoming pregnant.
Alicia

 

 Get "101 Tips That Burn Belly Fat Daily
    For  Free thumb.gif , Visit Here 

 

 
alicia9178 is offline  
#28 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 04:37 PM
hyz
 
hyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 682
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, I certainly didn't mean to cause controversy, and PassionateWriter--I certainly didn't mean that Alicia "deserved to be fired" because she wouldn't "obey"! I was answering a question asked on this thread, and it didn't make any sense to me to start a new thread for that. I also said that it sucks for both the patient and the doctor in many cases--doctors feeling forced to stick to protocol they don't believe in, and patients being stuck with that protocol or getting fired because they won't follow it. I never blamed the OP for anything.

I know there are bad doctors, that there are doctors who schedule C-sections for their own convenience, and that there are doctors with huge obnoxious egos who can't take any disagreement. Trust me, I'm surrounded by a lot of doctors in my family, friends, and acquaintances, and I know that they are 100% human, and not like gods in the least. I know that medical schools attract some very unattractive humans, and that medicine turns some perfectly lovely people into very unattractive humans. For all I know, Alicia's doctor is one of these. I never said that he was right--I have absolutely no way of knowing that, and of course it does sound like he should've raised the issue in person before just sending a letter.

On the other hand, there are a lot of good doctors out there who are decent people who want to do the best for their patients, but are also terrified of being sued. I have heard that the AVERAGE doctor is sued 3 times in their careers (and OBs are sued more than average)--and this is drilled into doctors in hospitals every day--it is talked about CONSTANTLY among the staff, and they spend their whole days doing things so as not to get sued, and worrying that they might get sued anyway. The consequences can be very real. We had a family friend, a very reputable doctor who was sued towards the end of his career, and the insurance company wouldn't settle, because they thought it was clear he did nothing wrong and there was no real way he could lose. Well, he lost, the jury awarded damages far in excess of his insurance coverage, and he lost his life savings, everything he had worked for. He went home and committed suicide. Of course we all shook our heads and thought of all the other things he could've done instead--he could've appealed, he was in the right, etc., etc. But he was just crushed.

As for doing things AMA--it's sticky. Usually you see this when a patient leaves the doctor's care prematurely (in the doctor's mind)--so the doctor notes that it was AMA, meaning that there was other stuff he wanted to do to you, but you wouldn't let him, and you're not his problem anymore. That's fine. But if, for example, you refuse a c-section AMA, and the doctor continues to participate actively in your care and do the things that they think are risky, and something goes wrong, they CAN still be liable. The legal point of view is that if they didn't think it was right, they shouldn't have done it. But since they did it, they can be liable. And consent forms are gotten around pretty regularly in court--"oh, he just stuck that in my face and told me to sign it, didn't give me time to read it, I had no idea what it meant, etc." (and many times that's true)--so juries will find that there wasn't informed consent, and hold the doctor liable. So consent forms are no guarantee of anything. I'm a lawyer, so I have a good understanding of the law, and the realities of the situation--juries can be fickle, and cases can turn out in totally unexpected ways. Also, even if the doctor wins, lawsuits can drag on for YEARS, can be very expensive and exhausting, and no litigant ever gets that time back.

Mom to sweet DD 8/08, and adorable DS 10/20/10
hyz is offline  
#29 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
alicia9178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My only challenge to this is that I am a nurse and we are taught...no it is drilled onto our heads that documentation is your only safeguard in court. If it is undocumented then it never occured. I know liability is a big deal, but the reality is that we as women are being forced into things and bullied with scare tactics over liability...it is a sad state of affairs that because some people are sue-crazy that we ultimatly all pay for that. The all or nothing attitude that medicine has had to embrace is scary.
Alicia

 

 Get "101 Tips That Burn Belly Fat Daily
    For  Free thumb.gif , Visit Here 

 

 
alicia9178 is offline  
#30 of 41 Old 04-30-2008, 05:11 PM
hyz
 
hyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 682
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicia9178 View Post
My only challenge to this is that I am a nurse and we are taught...no it is drilled onto our heads that documentation is your only safeguard in court. If it is undocumented then it never occured. I know liability is a big deal, but the reality is that we as women are being forced into things and bullied with scare tactics over liability...it is a sad state of affairs that because some people are sue-crazy that we ultimatly all pay for that. The all or nothing attitude that medicine has had to embrace is scary.
Alicia
Oh, I totally agree that documentation is your only safeguard--all I'm saying is that it's not even close to 100% effective, even when done well. Kinda like using the rhythm method to prevent conception.

I also agree with you that women are bullied into things, and that it's a sad state of affairs, and all of that. Honestly, I think US healthcare is a terrible mess right now, and it's not working out all that well for anyone, except for insurance companies raking in record profits, and some med mal plaintiffs' attorneys doing the same thing. The rest of us are stuck with the fallout. I've seriously considered doing a homebirth because I know that even a great doctor may feel compelled to order things for me that neither I nor she really thinks is necessary. DH and I aren't fully comfortable with this (yet, at least not this first time), but I'm glad you've decided to do what works for you--I certainly understand where you're coming from!

Mom to sweet DD 8/08, and adorable DS 10/20/10
hyz is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off