Refusing or delaying "routine" newborn procedures - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-03-2008, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So I'm starting to pull together my birth plan, since I'll most likely be having the baby in the hospital. I was just talking to my doc about the routine newborn stuff and he's really open to only doing those that we want.

I know for sure that we'll pass on the erythromycin drops (I'm sure I spelled that wrong). And the Hep B vaccine.

As far as
Vit K
PKU test

What are the arguments for/against these? I know vitamin K can be taken orally if need be, and I've seen some reference to warning signs that can alert you to a need for Vit K - does anyone have more info? Also, when I asked about delaying the PKU test until the 1 week appt I was told that although the conditions it tests for are very rare, that even a week's wait can make a large difference in the development of the baby if they are present - is that correct?

Thanks, gals!

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Old 07-03-2008, 02:31 PM
 
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As far as I know, the Vit K can be taken orally, but you may need to purchase it yourself. You shouldn't get that much static over refusing the Hep B; more and more parents are educating themselves about this useless vaccine and it is becoming more commonplace to refuse it.

I don't know about the PKU test, though. It is more than just screening for PKU. Most hospitals refer to it as newborn screening. I've done some research on it, and it is not a show stopper for me.
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:46 PM
 
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well what about a list of common procedures..
antiboitic drops? I thought they used silver nitrate no?

8 might be enough
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:51 PM
 
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No hep b (or any vaccines ever)

no eye jelly

no circum.

99% no on the vit k

pku not sure, I have to research that one

They cant use their cheapy soaps to bathe him, actually I will be giving the 1st bath anyways

 

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Old 07-03-2008, 02:54 PM
 
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Not your DDC, but have some knowledge...

PKU is legally required in many states. It picks up things that are relatively rare (galactosemia) to more common things (hypothyroid). It has saved many babies lives. And while its not a pleasant procedure, things like the hypothyroid are uncommon, unexpected, and really dangerous when undiagnosed (babies quickly permanently lose IQ points if they aren't supplemented with thyroid meds).

The only way to get out of this test in a state that legally requires the PKU screening would be to UC. In the required states the midwife has to do the procedure if you don't deliver at a hospital.

In my IRL circle of friends, one of my best friends had a perfect pregnancy, good delivery, no indicators, no family history, but her son does not have a thyroid gland. Just a random weird occurance. The test came back before he was a week old and they started thyroid meds. He's 6 now, and quite the guy! Without that medication he would have become profoundly mentally retarded.

A website about the whole process http://genes-r-us.uthscsa.edu/

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Old 07-03-2008, 03:04 PM
 
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I don't do Vit K because I don't feel like its necessary. If my child needed a surgery right away I'd consider it.

As for PKU I don't have a problem with it as long as the nurse is gentle. There is a huge difference between how it was done at the hospital with dd (prick and then rough squeezes to get out the blood, there was no patience there at all) and how my midwife does it (warm compress and gentle massage while baby is nursing to reduce pain).

I have no problem doing it but keep in mind that it can come up with false positives. I think there was some story on the news not long ago about a celebrity who's baby got a false negative.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:19 PM
 
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In my state refusing the PKU in the hospital is grounds for a CPS call, even with a religious exemption. Ridiculous, but there you go.

We're undecided on the PKU (we're homebirthing)--my midwife says that she can do it at our house. If that works out, we'll do it that way. If we have to take him to the hospital or if it's the kind of thing where a home health nurse comes, we'll refuse.

We plan on refusing everything else.

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Old 07-03-2008, 03:33 PM
 
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good idea on the soap thing!

8 might be enough
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:00 PM
 
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PKU is not required in Oregon.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:06 PM
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the PKU test actually varies state to state in regards to "newborn screening."

that is, different states test for different things (all for PKU, whihc is why it's often called the PKU test), so it might be helpful to ask your doctor what the PKU or newborn screening covers to determine for yourself if you want more coverage than what is offered by this test.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sasha_girl View Post
We're undecided on the PKU (we're homebirthing)--my midwife says that she can do it at our house. If that works out, we'll do it that way. If we have to take him to the hospital or if it's the kind of thing where a home health nurse comes, we'll refuse.

We plan on refusing everything else.
ditto! I am doing a homebirth to have the least intervention this includes baby!

watch a PKU procedure at home http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFP3UNvLetY

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Old 07-03-2008, 04:12 PM
 
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I know in Maine the PKU test is legally required. As for the rest, unless there's a medical reason for the Vit K shot, we're refusing everything else. As well as them washing the baby - I've got some yummy goat's milk soap with chamomile and lavendar in it that I just picked up form the farmer's market last weekend...

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Old 07-03-2008, 05:36 PM
 
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HepB isn't standard here, but I can't refuse the eryth. drops in eyes. My MW could lose her license if she doesn't do it (we're delivering in a hospital). We plan to go home 3-4 hours after the birth, if all goes well, so we don't really have to worry about first baths, etc.

Vit K:
My MW said you should wait and see with this one. It depends on the kind of labour you have-if it's been long/traumatic, of the baby shows any signs of swelling/bruising-it's not a bad idea. I will wait and see with this one.

Heel prick
My MW will do the heel prick at the first or second home visit (day 1 or 3 after the birth), and do it at home. It tests for PKU as well as 26 other genetic conditions-ie CF, etc. This we will do, as the benefits outweigh any discomfort.

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Old 07-03-2008, 05:55 PM
 
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we are refusing the hep b because I think it is just too young for that vax, even though we will get it later probably at 5 years or so.
As for the vitamin k we are going with a wait and see.
eye goop will be wait and see.
pku will be done, they will have to do a heel prick to check his bs at least twice anyway because of my diabetes, and said they could do it at the same time so it is not like he would need another heel prick for that.
I am bringing my own soap for my dh to give him his first bath with, i think that will be special for the both of them. Everything else i'm prepared to fight it out when it comes up.

Shawna
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:42 PM
 
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whats the best kind of soap?

8 might be enough
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:10 PM
 
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eye goop will be wait and see.
Can I ask why you'd wait and see? Either you have an STD or you don't--that's why it's given to infants.

Homesteading Mama to homeschoolin' kiddos London (10) ; Alexander (8) :; Holden (5) :; and Sergei born at home 8/18/08
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:23 PM
 
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We're not doing anything on the birth day. We'll do the PKU about 5 days after birth when I'll bet our doctor will want to check for bili levels too. That's about it here. We almost decided against the PKU, but my hubs thinks it doesn't hurt to get it done so I'm following his thoughts on that one.

The reason we forgo everything else is simply this, the human species has been around hundreds of thousands of years before any of this stuff was around and we survived just fine. So, I don't see the need for any of it unless a clear medical indication occurs.
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:33 PM
 
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i thought the drops were also given for non std's like
Quote:
Bacteria that normally live in a woman's vagina, which are not sexually transmitted, can also cause neonatal conjunctivitis.
any thoughts?

8 might be enough
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My understanding is that eryth drops are only for the presence of chlamydia or gonorrhea. Nothing else.

In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you." Buddha

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Old 07-03-2008, 08:12 PM
 
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That was my understanding as well, Greenmom. Besides, conjunctivitis means inflammation of the eye. The eyedrops themselves cause that.

Homesteading Mama to homeschoolin' kiddos London (10) ; Alexander (8) :; Holden (5) :; and Sergei born at home 8/18/08
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:24 PM
 
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I guess viral or bacterial you could always treat those with breastmilk or drops after as well bugs are everywhere anyhow..so I can see treating an STD if that might be a transmission route...

I am not sure i am going to fight the eye drop issue...unless anyone has anything that its beyond unnecessary but dangerous?

8 might be enough
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:34 AM
 
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I was always under the impression that the eye goop was for general bacteria in the vagina etc. as well as std's. I guess i will have to look into that some more. If it is just for std's then we don't need it. I was going with wait and see because with the issues baby is having right now with my placenta and being breech it looks like I have to prepare for a section. And i'm not doing the drops with a section, absolutely no reason for them then. Still hoping to get this baby to head down to head out so to speak though. hehe.
Shawna
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:03 AM
 
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We homebirth, so the only thing we do is the PKU which is required in NH. And I don't have a problem with it, they are testing, not putting anything into the babe.

And we give the baby a bath ourselves, I usually tub with the babe anyways, it is nice to soak and relax

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Old 07-04-2008, 08:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh View Post
whats the best kind of soap?
water for newborns!


We didn't do vit k. healthy babies are born with what they need to survive. It wouldn't surprise me if researchers discovered in 5-10 years that vit k wasn't needed in newborns because of other factors. just my thoughts...

we did the pku test 4 days after birth, which was what our home birth mw suggested. hospitals do it following the birth, I assume. I personally don't see anything concerning about this blood test. (though i sent dh in with babe cause I didn't want to see her in pain)

Eye drops are a definite "no" for us.

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Old 07-05-2008, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fridgeart View Post

Vit K:
My MW said you should wait and see with this one. It depends on the kind of labour you have-if it's been long/traumatic, of the baby shows any signs of swelling/bruising-it's not a bad idea. I will wait and see with this one.
We went over our birth plan with the midwife, and had said we had wanted to refuse vitK (and the rest). She was fine with the rest, but she had said that she had seen brain bleeds happen with even the gentlest of births, so she had changed her own mind about whether vitK was really necessary. She believes so. We're currently reconsidering as she's been a midwife a long time as both a homebirth midwife and CNM--more experience than us, that's for sure.

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Old 07-05-2008, 10:07 PM
 
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we do not do the eye drops. I don't have stds.

no hep b

no vitamin k unless there is a traumatic birth. In that case I have ordered oral vitamin k that I have in my hospital bag. It is a much much lower dose then the shot. In some studies the shot has been linked to childhood leukemia as well as jaundice.

We are doing the pku test at our pediatricians office. It is not something that has to be done at the hospital.

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Old 07-05-2008, 10:37 PM
 
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we may or may not do oral vit K. we will do PKU at 1 or 2 weeks. i think the midwifery practice i am going to routinely does PKU at 2 weeks. everything else is a no-go.

concerning erythromycin eye drops: is it necessary and effective?; discussion on newborn eye ointment from gentlebirth.org

ETA: discussion on vit K on gentlebirth.org

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Old 07-06-2008, 12:46 AM
 
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Quote:
water for newborns!
i can decline soap?

8 might be enough
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:53 PM
 
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i can decline soap?
I wasn´t aware that it was manditory in hospitals. as i understand, washing newborns with soap is not needed.

I've got three monkeys jumping on the bed!!

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Old 07-06-2008, 01:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by witchygrrl View Post
We went over our birth plan with the midwife, and had said we had wanted to refuse vitK (and the rest). She was fine with the rest, but she had said that she had seen brain bleeds happen with even the gentlest of births, so she had changed her own mind about whether vitK was really necessary. She believes so. We're currently reconsidering as she's been a midwife a long time as both a homebirth midwife and CNM--more experience than us, that's for sure.
it´s interesting the diffrent viewpoints experienced midwives have.

I've got three monkeys jumping on the bed!!

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