I know that TECHNICALLY a 9 wk old is a minor... - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 02:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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... but I swear, she's NOT going to be slipped alcohol tonight!!!! This is me tonight: ::::

I'm currently sitting at home alone, with Addie asleep, while my Dh and all our friends (including 2 of my bff from jr. high & high school) are out having a NYE blast. After the 3rd bar refused to let me in b/c I had Addie with me I just gave up. (But the pregnant lady behind me was fine ) These are places like a pub/restaurant, a pizza/pub, and a high class restaurant that we've brought Addie to at night in the sling before and never had a problem - they aren't smoky dive bars. Apparently though, there is a law that says minors can't be admitted to these places after 9 pm. They just have never enforced it before. : It's so stupid. One bouncer lady said, "And we're going to have music playing so..." like Addie couldn't handle music? Wouldn't that be MY call if my kid was ok with loud music or not?! It just makes me feel so disrespected as a Mom and the whole stereotype that babies need to be kept in their own pastel colored room with no noise b/c they're so fragile.

Dh offered to stay home with me, but I told him to go out and he did reluctantly after I threatened him. Our friends are here to see us and at least one of us should have a good time. I wasn't even going to drink, I just wanted to hang out with my friends in a fun atmosphere and count down to midnight in the town square. I vetoed everyone coming back here b/c Addie being out with us in the wrap is one thing, everyone being loud in her own space she gets cranky for some reason.

I truly never thought limits would be set ON me about where I could go b/c of Addie... I always assumed it'd be ME limiting my activities. Dh had to pull me away from the last bar b/c I was about to chew the bouncer's head off. It just really rubs me the wrong way.

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#2 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 03:17 AM
 
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I come at this from a totally different perspective as you- I have never even contemplated bringing our babies to a bar. Maybe cause it isn't that important to me but it also just seems completely inappropriate. I mean, at what age would they stop letting kids come in if babies were allowed? It would ruin the whole atmosphere for those that are out for some adult time.
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#3 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 03:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It would ruin the whole atmosphere for those that are out for some adult time.
How would my baby, asleep in a wrap on my body, ruin someone else's "adult" time, especially someone who is a stranger to us and isn't even going to be interacting with us?!

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#4 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 03:30 AM
 
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Sorry you're stuck at home. I would think a restaurant/pub would be okay for a little one, but there are some weird rules out there.

BTW, I LOVE the picture of you and your babe in your siggie.

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#5 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 03:34 AM
 
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I'm sorry your night was ruined. Maybe they're worried about liability should things get wild on NY Eve? Still stinks though. All of the bars here are smoke free and we've brought our babies in slings and never had a problem.
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#6 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 03:35 AM
 
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I had the same problem after my 1st was born. It was St Patricks day and I wanted to take him to the bar we frequented enough to be on a first name basis with the bar manager.... when we showed up at the door they wouldnt let us in. I called to the manager through the door and she came out to see him, but reinforced that they couldnt let ANY kids in, no matter how young or inconspicuous. And the same as you, it was a new rule, as I had been there before with a friend and her much older kids in years past.

I am sorry it didnt work out like you wanted.
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#7 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 03:37 AM
 
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I'm on the other side too. I would never expect my DS to be let into a bar. Yes, he's just a baby and will only drink what I give him and I wouldn't give him alcohol. But the law says that no one under 19 here can enter a bar and that includes infants.

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#8 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 04:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Amber Lion View Post
I truly never thought limits would be set ON me about where I could go b/c of Addie... I always assumed it'd be ME limiting my activities. Dh had to pull me away from the last bar b/c I was about to chew the bouncer's head off. It just really rubs me the wrong way.
It's the damn OLCC Em. Which, IMO, is a complete joke ever since the commisioner got arrested on a DUI charge a few years back I think you SHOULD be able to take a baby to a nice restaurant or bar if that's what you choose to do. We've been asked to move from certain areas of a restaurant where minors aren't permitted (near the bar) to an area not but 10ft from the prohibited area. Look for the signs in those places that say "Minors permitted between the hours of __ to __ on these premises." That's how dh and I know where our girls are welcome and when.

Sorry your night of fun was ruined...
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#9 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 04:19 AM
 
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Are you kidding me? Um, it's the law in most places. No one under the age of 21 in a bar. Are you seriously complaining because a man did not want to risk jail time for letting your baby in a bar. Yes I said jail time, because if an establishment already has any offense a second offense could easily land someone in jail. Not to mention a business being shut down, the owner being fined, and all the employees being out of work.

Write your congressman and try to get the law changed, but don't bite some poor guys head off when he is doing his job, that's just out of line on your part. Seriously.
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#10 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 04:44 AM
 
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Sometimes the restrictions in the US boggle my mind.
In Manitoba, children are allowed to be in lounges with some restrictions. There must be food served and the child cannot be served alcohol- unless they're over the age of 14 and have parental/guardian consent. It seems insane to me that you would try to go to a *restaurant* and be turned away because it was "too late".
But honestly, yes, once you become a mother, it's expected by society that you won't do certain things with your children. One of them happens to be going to establishments which serve alcohol. A pretty near-sighted view, as far as I'm concerned.

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#11 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 04:58 AM
 
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After the 3rd bar refused to let me in b/c I had Addie with me I just gave up. (But the pregnant lady behind me was fine ) These are places like a pub/restaurant, a pizza/pub, and a high class restaurant that we've brought Addie to at night in the sling before and never had a problem - they aren't smoky dive bars. Apparently though, there is a law that says minors can't be admitted to these places after 9 pm.

It just makes me feel so disrespected as a Mom and the whole stereotype that babies need to be kept in their own pastel colored room with no noise b/c they're so fragile.

I truly never thought limits would be set ON me about where I could go b/c of Addie... I always assumed it'd be ME limiting my activities. Dh had to pull me away from the last bar b/c I was about to chew the bouncer's head off.
Pesky laws....

Honestly, you were surprised that bars wouldn't let you in with a child? I'm surprised you thought they would. You don't get to supercede state laws because your friends are in town. I understand your disappointment at not being able to spend the evening with them - but your reasonable choices were party with baby at home or they go without you.

Not the bouncer's fault. Not disrespecting you as a mom. It isn't personal - anyone who showed up with a baby would be turned away.

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Nowhere in Em's post does she say she bit the bouncer's head off. She's just disappointed because she hadn't considered not being allowed to go out with her friends.
She said she was "about to chew the bouncer's head off" and that her dp had to drag her away. It is pretty clear that she is disappointed, but we are confused as to how she couldn't have considered that outcome. It seems like the obvious thing - you try to take a minor into a bar; you are turned away.

None of the visiting friends or the OP's dp mentioned worry over getting in with the baby? I'm surprised that out of four or five adults, no one knew this wouldn't work.
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#12 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 04:59 AM
 
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Sometimes the restrictions in the US boggle my mind.
In Manitoba, children are allowed to be in lounges with some restrictions. There must be food served and the child cannot be served alcohol- unless they're over the age of 14 and have parental/guardian consent. It seems insane to me that you would try to go to a *restaurant* and be turned away because it was "too late".
But honestly, yes, once you become a mother, it's expected by society that you won't do certain things with your children. One of them happens to be going to establishments which serve alcohol. A pretty near-sighted view, as far as I'm concerned.
It's the type of atmosphere, though, not what is served.

No one would have a problem with the OP going to Applebee's or whatever at 9pm on your usual Wednesday night and *gasp* drinking a beer!

But on NYE, places turn into party central. I know the kind of place she is talking about, and I'm sorry, if there is enough of a drunken party atmosphere that they need a bouncer, there is probably a need to think about proper atmospheres in which to bring children.

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#13 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 05:09 AM
 
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Seeing as MOST restaurants (at least around these parts) have liquour licenses and even bar areas does that mean that we carrying infants/toddlers/children along in our lives should expect to never be allowed to patronize restaurants when in the company of our offspring?

I can understand being denied at a nighclub/true bar...but at a restaurant with bar facilities or even a proper pub? Why shouldn't one expect to be able to take their child along....sometimes I even go to restaurants/pubs with my children in tow and don't even drink!!! Imagine! I just go and socialize with friends...and have a meal. My children are always welcome at these places and my three year old is usually even provided crayons and something to scribble on! (And for all of you out there worrying about my child imposing on your grown up time...in my experience we manage her behavior in public places better than many grown ups manage their own behavior).

It seems pretty crummy that you were denied entry when you've been welcome with child before...sounds like they thought you wouldn't be generating the kind of alcohol related revenue they hope for on NYE. How disappointing for you to try several places that have been ok with you attending before to be denied this time.

An interesting sort of related tidbit: recently we were in New Orleans (we go often and my three year old LOVES that city), and we were at a very nice old bar....the bartender there was telling us that as far as the babies go...they are allowed in the bars...just not allowed to sit up at the bar! We all had a chuckle about that!
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#14 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 05:21 AM
 
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It's the type of atmosphere, though, not what is served.

No one would have a problem with the OP going to Applebee's or whatever at 9pm on your usual Wednesday night and *gasp* drinking a beer!

But on NYE, places turn into party central. I know the kind of place she is talking about, and I'm sorry, if there is enough of a drunken party atmosphere that they need a bouncer, there is probably a need to think about proper atmospheres in which to bring children.
I know the "kind of place" she's talking about too. I just have a different view of it.
Sorry, but Applebee's is not what I consider a "fun atmosphere". I want lights and music, some dancing maybe. I really don't think that's too much to ask.
It's hard when you become a new mom and suddenly your life isn't your own anymore. Everyone else's expectations for what's "right" are placed on you and suddenly, you no longer have the social life you used to- because society won't *let* you. It's totally disrespectful, imo, not to mention a total double standard.

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#15 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 05:38 AM
 
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bar and restaurant with a bar are two things - different.

I'm shocked that anyone would be surprised not to be allowed in a bar while carrying a CHILD, newborn or not. duh.

OP may be a very nice person - it does not make the laws stop being laws.

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#16 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 05:39 AM
 
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regardless of the bar breaking the law in the past. This is new Years Eve. A night where the cops are out in large numbers. A night where the ABC is out in force. The bar chose to FOLLOW THE LAW and not risk fines, being shut down and possible jail time to the bouncer/bar tender on a night where they were more likely to get caught. If you get puled over for speeding do you fight the ticket on the basis that you speed every day and no one ever pulled you over before?
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#17 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 05:57 AM
 
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It's never even crossed my mind to take a baby into a bar. In having a baby, I kinda figured I'm bidding farewell to the 21-and-over establishments (or 21-and-over areas of establishments) unless the kiddo is at home with a babysitter. As someone else said - if "under 21" doesn't really mean "under 21" - when would that stop? Should a 2 year old be welcome as long as you're wearing them?

I know how harsh the penalties can be for employees and establishments for allowing in underage people, so I wouldn't expect them to read some exception into the law for an infant.

Also, though restaurants like Applebees do often have liquor licenses, they also usually have bar areas that are restricted access. I wouldn't expect to sit in that section with an infant any more than I would expect to go into a regular bar. It might be a silly distinction, since you can order alcohol elsewhere in the establishment, but it is usually a distinction defined by law.

And, frankly, I think you have to accept the fact that while you may not feel like your baby in a sling affects the adults-only atmosphere of a bar, the other patrons and the business owners may not agree with you. I'd think it was pretty weird to be in that environment on New Year's Eve only to hear a baby start crying. I think expecting a 21-and-over establishment to be free of children - of any age - is reasonable.

EDIT: Oh, and sorry, totally DDC crashed! I clicked on this in new topics and didn't see where I was.
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#18 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 06:20 AM
 
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EDIT: Oh, and sorry, totally DDC crashed! I clicked on this in new topics and didn't see where I was.
Yeah, I didn't realize it either until after my 2nd post. Sorry.

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#19 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 06:22 AM
 
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It's what happens on New years and we aren't able to party cause we are moms. We sit on MDC clicking new posts over and over.
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#20 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I expected to be let in tonight b/c I'd been let in before and I had no idea there was a law about these establishments BECAUSE I'd been let in before. I wasn't expecting them to break the law for me, I'd no idea there WAS a law.

I do not drink. I was going to have a fun, NYE atmosphere at one of our local pubs - yes, PUB, which are usually family friendly. I don't expect anyone to put their job at stake, or risk jail time, for me but like I said, I'd no idea this was a law before tonight.

Just b/c one wouldn't think to bring their child into a pub doesn't mean no one else is comfortable with it. Addie goes where I go and she's slept peacefully thru other pub nights (where I didn't drink, but just enjoyed being with friends) even with loud music. I don't see why b/c I have a child I can't sit at a table and enjoy the company of my friends. I don't see how this would ruin someone else's night!

I mentioned I was about to chew the 3rd bouncer out. I made this post in my DDC, to women who I feel I've gotten to know pretty well over the course of my pg, and who I felt safe venting to.... b/c I didn't vent my anger on the bouncer. My Dh knows me pretty well and could tell I was getting mad and he pulled me away before I said one disrespectful thing. Yes, I questioned why I was suddenly being turned away because it was unexpected, but I understand that the bouncer is not able to change an establishments policy especially if it's apparently a law. I was upset and disappointed and thought the other women in my DDC would be understanding of my frustration.

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#21 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 07:28 AM
 
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Well after reading through all of this... I just want to offer up some s to you Em! That really is odd that they would let you in before and not now. That is just stupid if its ok for you to bring babe with you otherwise unless it is a night when there could be cops. And at a pub no less. I would be pretty pissed too. And for all those who posted otherwise, family friendly pub and dancing, throw back cocktails like they're candy bar/nightclub do NOT equal the same thing

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#22 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 07:39 AM
 
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It could be very possible they have recently gotten in trouble for allowing minors in with parents.

As for bar and restaurant. Here, the bar is seperate from the restaurant part and minors are not allowed in the bar area.

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#23 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 09:57 AM
 
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I wouldn't consider a Pub a family friendly place. A pub is where we go to drink and hang out with adults.

I'm sorry that you weren't allowed in the pub with your infant. A friend of ours used to bartend, and we used to meet her outside on her breaks so she could see DS because DS wasn't allowed inside, nor would I have been comfortable taking him in there.
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#24 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 10:42 AM
 
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[QUOTE=SquishyKitty;12894911]I wouldn't consider a Pub a family friendly place. A pub is where we go to drink and hang out with adults.
[QUOTE]

Maybe it is a cultural difference then? To me, a local pub is a neighborhood establishement where the whole family is welcome (usually including the dog!) A pub to us is somewhere to go to relax, have a meal and maybe a pint. It is not somewhere to go "party" there are plenty of clearly adult only places around for that. So, when I read "pub" or think "pub"...that is a family friendly laid back local type place.

FWIW: I'm comfortable with my kids seeing people drinking alcohol and hanging out with adults...I think learning how to be responsible with and around alcohol starts early, as well as learning how to behave in an adult environment. In general, I avoid places where people are going to be ridiculously drunk and/or obnoxious (with or without my children). I also avoid places that allow cigarette smoking as I physically not stand cigarette smoke...and would NEVER expose my children to second hand smoke.

Regardless, Em...I can imagine how frustrated you were. It would be one thing if you guys had expected to hang out at home for the evening..but it is another when you get all geared up and ready to go (with out of town guests in tow) to be told that there is no place for you with your child.
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#25 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 10:50 AM
 
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to you, Em. I am amazed at the responses to this thread. Your gracious response about venting to just us is perhaps more gracious than I could have been. The responses also demonstrate the varied view to alcohol across the US and beyond.

I know exactly the kind of pub you are talking about, and I would be equally upset in your situation. It sounds like the law is one of those "stupidity of others" kinds of laws. You wouldn't drink, but because other people might and endanger a child, the law exists.

I like what a pp said about motherhood changing life as you know it. While I honestly don't remember my NYE last year (not due to overindulging, mind you), I know I would have been pouting all morning about going to bed with a cranky baby at 6 last night and feeling like I'm hungover (despite not having had a drink for a year) this morning b/c of the intense nighttime parenting I have had to do for the past 12 hours.
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#26 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 11:03 AM
 
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That's a bummer. I'm sorry you didn't get to have a fun night with friends. I would've loved that too, even though I don't drink either, and dh went out while I was home with the babe, so I feel you.

Sorry we have nothing else to talk about this morning besides crashing your thread. Too many forums are closed, lol.

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#27 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 12:19 PM
 
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I'm sorry your night sucked. While I probably wouldn't take a baby to a pub myself on NYE ( and not because I think it's an entirely bad idea either but I have too many kids to even consider going out ) I think I would have been surprised as well. Logically, sure I can see that being a law but I always assume teeny babies are welcome where ever mama goes.
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#28 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 12:35 PM
 
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Reopening.

I am going with the assumption that the reason the OP posted here in her DDC rather than LWAB is that it was more of a vent than actually seeking advice. This isn't to say we can't all express our opinion, but please keep in mind that the DDCs are, by their nature, meant to be supportive and friendship-oriented, not no-holds-barred debate-oriented.

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#29 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 01:00 PM
 
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Hugs to you - I'm sorry you were lonely on NYE.

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#30 of 52 Old 01-01-2009, 01:06 PM
 
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Ah, bah humbug! s Mama!

If it makes you feel any better, my NY was rung in with Nora finally sleeping on me on the couch, and DH and I whispering, "happy new year!" watching Ryan Seacrest and the Jonas Brothers on TV and drinking some cheap champagne.

I hope you had fun nonetheless! And vent away!

Carrie SAHM to Nora Caitlyn (5) and Finnley Dax (2) homebirthing, breastfeeding, babywearing, intactivist, doula mama!         
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