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#61 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 01:26 PM
 
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Please don't lecture me or offer help on this but I had to respond. I am sad to say that I don't find circ necessary and would prefer not to do it but DH won't even discuss it. I brought it up and he completely shut down the converstaion before it started. He's not willing to even listen to any education or anything. He's circ'd and wants his son to look like him of course.
My husband was the same way when I was PG with #1. We had a girl and didn't have to deal with it. Now, with #2, he brought it up himself and said that he was anti-circ too, and it was totally out of the blue!! You never can tell with these dhs what they will feel. I know that for my dh, seeing the jaundice test on my daughter's foot kicked in his protective instincts to the degree that he may have changed his mind about circ in the hospital had #1 been a boy. I wish you the best.
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#62 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 02:34 PM
 
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I have two boys and we circ'ed both of them. HOWEVER the last little boy breastfed really good before the circ and after he did horrible for weeks and weeks, I could not get him interested he wanted to sleep. I found some information that circ-ing can cause a baby to go into a coma like state for weeks, and has a negative impact on breastfeeding. I wonder if it made him do that after breastfeeding so well in the several hours after birth and then immedietly after circing everything went down hill, pretty much. I had to Exclusivly pump from the time he was 9 weeks to 5 months or so.

I am not in favor of doing any more circumsicion, I dont think. Now if I can just convince dh of that!!
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#63 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 03:53 PM
 
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I have two boys and we circ'ed both of them. HOWEVER the last little boy breastfed really good before the circ and after he did horrible for weeks and weeks, I could not get him interested he wanted to sleep. I found some information that circ-ing can cause a baby to go into a coma like state for weeks, and has a negative impact on breastfeeding. I wonder if it made him do that after breastfeeding so well in the several hours after birth and then immedietly after circing everything went down hill, pretty much. I had to Exclusivly pump from the time he was 9 weeks to 5 months or so.

I am not in favor of doing any more circumsicion, I dont think. Now if I can just convince dh of that!!
Ahh, the connection between circ and poor feeding...obviously a very real issue that I've seen may times downplayed or swept under the rug. There also isn't very much research out there on the subject, unfortunately.

I always tell my mamas who are having feeding difficulties (and even those who aren't) that if they want to circ they should wait til the babe can effectively nurse well. I tell them that breastfeeding should be their priority. It sounds like nobody told you that, mama.

mama. I'm sorry to hear that your breastfeeding relationship was affected.

Ashley~certified nurse-midwife mama to 6 little novaxnocirc.gifhomebirth.jpglotbirth.gif loves, including sweet Cordelia Jane born at home waterbirth.jpgon 11/12/10.
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#64 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 04:04 PM
 
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A woman in the August DDC just started a thread over there about circ. She's a doula and childbirth educator and has a bunch of good information on her website (link in that post)...if anyone here is still looking for more info about circ.

Erika, mama to Austin (9/14/06), (4/08, 13 weeks gestation), and Sierra (7/3/09, 27 weeks gestation)
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#65 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 04:14 PM
 
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I never talk about what happened with ds...it was too traumatic for me and even if he dosn't remember, I do. I forever will beat myself up for not coming here and researching, just letting myself be talked into something in my hormonal haze. No amount of "when you know better, you do better" makes me feel better, though I guess it should. If this dc is a boy (and I pray it is) it will NEVER happen, unless he's an adult and making his choice. I will never forget that day..never.

My husband could not understand anything abuot it...no big deal, cleaner, whatever. If this one is a boy I will fight to the death to keep him intact, it's the same with vaxing...over my dead body.

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#66 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 04:37 PM
 
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If this child is a boy we are on the fence about circ. I had never questioned it before as my DH and our families are all circ as far as I know, but I started reading more about it when I got pregnant and it seems pretty cruel. DH doesn't want our son to grow up looking "different" but isn't really fighting me on the issue. I am wondering though about the increased risk of penile cancer and HIV, the HIV issue I read about here and here. Obviously we'll teach our children about safe sex and penile cancer is very rare I've read 1 in 100,000, but is any one else concerned about health risks with not circumcising? Please don't jump down my throat as I realize 99.9% of people here are anti-circ, I just have questions

Jenn EDD 3/20/10 with two 3/06 Jaden 06/08
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#67 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 04:43 PM
 
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^ I believe that is what threads like this are here for, to inform ppl. Although I don't have any answers about HIV or penile cancer, I believe that the odds are so low that the benefits of not circ'ing, for me, *greatly* outweigh the risks!

Wife & Mama to Two Loving Kids DS1 (7/7/07) DS2 (925/08) and DS3 (6/28/12)! And our new furbaby puppy Koda!

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#68 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Penile cancer can form IN THE CIRC SCAR-- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t_uids=3944860
http://www.ajsp.com/pt/re/ajsp/abstr...195629!8091!-1

As for circ and Aids/HIV: It is completely bunk. There are several threads in the CAC forum discussing and disecting the study.
The USA is the highest circ'ing nation... most of the men in the USA that have Aids/HIV are circ'ed. Using infant circumcision as a preventative makes as much sense as cutting off our daughters' breasts at birth to prevent breast cancer... actually, that would make more sense and save more lives. The truth is, safe sex practices are more reliable and very well proven to prevent the spread of infection by barrier methods and abstainance.

Please visit the Case Against Circ forum, and check out the stickies-- especially the Web Resources
There really is more info on this subject than can be addressed by a single thread...
I spent weeks researching (absolutley horrified) when I first found the board.

Did you know there are "medical studies" proving circ could cure seizures and clubfeet???

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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#69 of 91 Old 03-26-2008, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here ya go, one of the threads with lots of good studies, as well as info on the immune protection of the foreskin:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=860236
"only clinical circumcision prevents HIV/AIDS"
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=845195

newsletter for physicians:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=768176

UTI talk, not necessarily research, but info
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=843270

Reasons Circ would be "necessary" as an adult?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=847027

Anyway, please spend some time over there, and please spread the word once you do!

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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#70 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 12:12 AM
 
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If this child is a boy we are on the fence about circ. I had never questioned it before as my DH and our families are all circ as far as I know, but I started reading more about it when I got pregnant and it seems pretty cruel. DH doesn't want our son to grow up looking "different" but isn't really fighting me on the issue. I am wondering though about the increased risk of penile cancer and HIV, the HIV issue I read about here and here. Obviously we'll teach our children about safe sex and penile cancer is very rare I've read 1 in 100,000, but is any one else concerned about health risks with not circumcising? Please don't jump down my throat as I realize 99.9% of people here are anti-circ, I just have questions
the study linking HIV to not being circ'd is just insane. go to the CAC forum and look at what has been said about it there.

im not jumping down your throat but i have 3 boys and i have NEVER seen or heard of them brandishing their penises along w/ their father, yk?? in 17 years, never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


the whole "look like daddy thing" is just crazy!

and circ. is on the decrease in this country, thank G-d. Even the AAP recommends against RIC! Our sons are going to be in the majority when they are growing up....
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#71 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 08:25 AM
 
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I just wanted to add that we were a little concerned how the two older boys (who are circ'd) would react to Wyatt who in uncirc'd. They see me change his diaper all of the time and have seen him in the bath and have never made a comment about his penis being different than theirs. It really has been a non-issue.
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#72 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 09:33 AM
 
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A woman in the August DDC just started a thread over there about circ. She's a doula and childbirth educator and has a bunch of good information on her website (link in that post)...if anyone here is still looking for more info about circ.
I saw that and thought she had a great approproach! I still haven't gotten around to post the info in my circ binder...but I will...I promise.
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#73 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 11:59 AM
 
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This is my first child, and my gut instinct is that it will be a girl, but I know we need to make a choice in case it is a boy. I am VERY against it. I feel it is barbaric and I dont even understand really how people do it. I first started feeling this way when I read some information several years back about female circumcision and I found myself in tears over what those poor girls went through, then I put two and two together and realized the same thing happens to little boys every day in America. My partner feels a little differently. I am having a home birth, so I'm kind of hoping we can just not do it.... and he will forget about the whole thing? I would love any good solid info that I can show him (something short, to-the-point, and not "hippy" sounding) to sway him to my side.
Thank You.
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#74 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am having a home birth, so I'm kind of hoping we can just not do it.... and he will forget about the whole thing? I would love any good solid info that I can show him (something short, to-the-point, and not "hippy" sounding) to sway him to my side.
Thank You.
Just show him the video, if he is adamant about having it done. WARNING! Graphic and disturbing, I have only watched the first 30 seconds
http://www.intact.ca/video.html
A transcript of what is being said can be found here:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=481025
Just reading it made me shake, sweat, and vomit. How people are duped by their doctors everyday- parents think they are doing what is best for their children, but the medical community refuses to acknowledge the harms.

Really, it is not a "hippy" issue or a "crunchy" issue. It is a human rights issue.

I have a pro-circ, anti-INFANT circ Word document if anyone is interested, just pm me your address. It is basically geared to men who are into body modification (tats, piercings, etc) and tells how careless doctors are when they cut off the foreskin, and how easy the surgery is as an adult IF the boy chooses to have it done on his own.

You can try the approach I did with my (then boyfriend, now) husband: I told him over my dead body was anyone cutting off a part of my perfectly healthy baby. And I didn't know the full horrors until I found the CAC forum a few months ago... but I truely meant it. No doctor would cut off my child's breasts to prevent breast cancer, or her toes to prevent ingrown toenails... The foreskin is not an expendable body part, any more than my clitoral hood is....

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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#75 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 12:16 PM
 
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We circ'ed DS, I didn't want to, but felt it should be DH's decision. Now I feel 100% it should be DS's decision. It's his body, not DH's. I will not allow it to happen again. We did wait till DS was 3 weeks old and went to a ped surgeon, he seemed to do a good job and DS didn't seem too bothered by it (but then again we never did get the hang of BFing...) but I still won't do it again. If we have a son and he decides he wants to be circed he can do it later.

And of course we weren't allowed in the room while it happened, but we could hear him screaming (just from being restrained we were told) and it was bad enough DH left the building. And he still says he wants to do it again if we have a boy!!!

Mom to DS 5/05 and DD 9/08
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#76 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 12:31 PM
 
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If this child is a boy we are on the fence about circ. I had never questioned it before as my DH and our families are all circ as far as I know, but I started reading more about it when I got pregnant and it seems pretty cruel. DH doesn't want our son to grow up looking "different" but isn't really fighting me on the issue. I am wondering though about the increased risk of penile cancer and HIV, the HIV issue I read about here and here. Obviously we'll teach our children about safe sex and penile cancer is very rare I've read 1 in 100,000, but is any one else concerned about health risks with not circumcising? Please don't jump down my throat as I realize 99.9% of people here are anti-circ, I just have questions
Well, circ is a downward trend right now and less and less boys are being circ'd, so in the future, your ds if uncirc'd will likely be in the majority and "normal". Plus, really how many boys/men compare penises? Likely unless he watches porn, he wouldn't notice a difference and the good European stuff has uncirc'd men.

So that should ease your Dh's mind about the "difference" issue. And everyone else already hit on the other issues. I mean, first of all, that is how nature/God/whatever you believe in made penises. Why mess with the design?

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#77 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 01:25 PM
 
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I have a messianic jewish couple who do it - It is a little hard for me to deal with - but they do travel (7 hour round trip on the 8th day!) to go to a mohel/dr who does the less radical surgery. I respect their research and reasoning even if I don't agree with their choice...
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A Bris Shalom is something that some MDC families have chosen for their sons if there is a religious reason for doing a circ.
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^ Thanks so much for that information!!! I was just telling DH that it hurt my heart that there were women out there who, for religious reasons, circ their sons even if they are well informed. That is really awesome to know that religion can evolve somewhat for the well being of it's members as well.
I'm really glad this angle was appraoched... and so respectfully at that We are a Jewish family and we are of those who choose not to circ. It can be so very sensitive so thank you to everyone who so carefully but without shame appraoched such an important topic!!

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#78 of 91 Old 03-27-2008, 02:37 PM
 
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Thanks for all that info ladies! I've got a lot of research to do

Jenn EDD 3/20/10 with two 3/06 Jaden 06/08
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#79 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 10:28 AM
 
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Oh Boy, the issue just got worse in my house. We told my boyfriend's parents last night, and the first thing his father said when we told him we were having a home birth was "what if its a boy?" I didn't actually understand what he was saying, but my boyfriend apparently picked up on it. He said "the midwife will do it right there" i said "No she wont" then I realized we were gearing up for a huge fight. His parents were absolutly dead set on having a circ, and when we got home and re-opened the argument he is dead set on it also. When it comes right down to the wire.... who makes the decision? Do both parents have to sign off? We are not married, do i get the final decision?

PS: If my child at any point decides himself that HE wants this cosmetic procedure, I have no problem with allowing him to make that choice.
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#80 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 10:41 AM
 
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Oh Boy, the issue just got worse in my house. We told my boyfriend's parents last night, and the first thing his father said when we told him we were having a home birth was "what if its a boy?" I didn't actually understand what he was saying, but my boyfriend apparently picked up on it. He said "the midwife will do it right there" i said "No she wont" then I realized we were gearing up for a huge fight. His parents were absolutly dead set on having a circ, and when we got home and re-opened the argument he is dead set on it also. When it comes right down to the wire.... who makes the decision? Do both parents have to sign off? We are not married, do i get the final decision?

PS: If my child at any point decides himself that HE wants this cosmetic procedure, I have no problem with allowing him to make that choice.
His parents have NO SAY in the matter. They made the choice for their own children.

I just wanted to offer you encouragement. My husband and I had many discussions about this before Wyatt was born and he was dead set on having it done and I obviously was dead set against it. We were still arguing about it after he was born. He wasn't there when the asked in the hospital and I flat out refused to take him to have it done afterwards and I knew that DH wouldn't take him in by himself. Wyatt is now almost a year and the issue has never come up again. I think now that DH sees that an uncirc'd penis is totally, completely "normal," and Wyatt hasn't had any problems at all, it has changed his mind.

Stand your ground and keep presenting the information to your boyfriend and hopefully he will see how unnecessary and cruel the procedure is to baby boys.
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#81 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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When it comes right down to the wire.... who makes the decision? Do both parents have to sign off? We are not married, do i get the final decision?
.
The mother has the final say, married or not. You can just tell your inlaws that you are leaving it up to your son (and one day, I hope that is the only person who will legally be able to decide)

Feel free to pm me your email and i can send you a word document about why having it done before reaching adulthood- in medical/body mod terms- is the worst time to have it done.

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#82 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 11:18 AM
 
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We did a lot of research before our first even, and I will say it didn't take much research to convince me at all. I was more looking for reasons TO do it but it was so obvious what was right for us. Then we got a girl, then another girl, but by the time my ds was born I had been ready years before and secure with that decision so it was wonderful to just "be". I can't imagine having him go through that or taken from me to endure that. He is 22 months old and beautiful. He is definately the first in our families not to be circ'ed and I think dh's parents were a bit taken back but never would say anything (they know better, ) to us. I give my dh so much credit too, he is circ'ed and he too looks beautiful but he didn't even want to consider it if it meant putting ds through the pain of a useless procedure.
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#83 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 12:23 PM
 
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I have always felt that circumcision was strange; why mess with millions of years of evolution? When my husband and I decided that we wanted to have a child, the topic came up a few times and he seemed to be "on the fence" about it, but leaning toward pro-circ. This really concerned me. We usually agree on most matters. I started hoping for a girl!

At a recent doctor's appointment, a nurse was asking us about a hundred questions. One question was whether or not we'll circumsize and I said, "We're fighting that one out." My husband really surprised me by saying, "No, we're not." At first I thought he was being stubborn, but no, he apparently did some research on his own and now he agrees with me and we will NOT be letting anyone cut our child for no good reason.

That made my day!
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#84 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 02:45 PM
 
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Oh Boy, the issue just got worse in my house. We told my boyfriend's parents last night, and the first thing his father said when we told him we were having a home birth was "what if its a boy?" I didn't actually understand what he was saying, but my boyfriend apparently picked up on it. He said "the midwife will do it right there" i said "No she wont" then I realized we were gearing up for a huge fight. His parents were absolutly dead set on having a circ, and when we got home and re-opened the argument he is dead set on it also. When it comes right down to the wire.... who makes the decision? Do both parents have to sign off? We are not married, do i get the final decision?

PS: If my child at any point decides himself that HE wants this cosmetic procedure, I have no problem with allowing him to make that choice.
I wrote about this in your other post but research this issue and present your bf with solid information against circ, tell him that "because i want my son to look like me" is not an argument and if he wants to actually be involved in this decision, then come up with information like you took the time to do. AND show him videos. That is always a big changing point for many ppl! Good luck mama.

Wife & Mama to Two Loving Kids DS1 (7/7/07) DS2 (925/08) and DS3 (6/28/12)! And our new furbaby puppy Koda!

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#85 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 03:52 PM
 
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Just sharing this because I know many of you will understand how I'm feeling!

I am on Babycenter too and went to my October 2008 due date group there. There is a huge discussion on circumcision, with about 85% of moms so far saying they will circumcise. For reasons that I personally just find shocking. There are so many I can't even recall them all, but the one that made my jaw drop I just couldn't believe it - was that you're doing your sons future wife a favour. An uncircumcised penis is bound to get very dirty and what wife wants to wait while her husband 'cleans himself' before having sex. I mean, are you KIDDING ME??????? It is so so sad and scary that people really believe these things. I don't think I can go back on the board, I am just so shocked by the narrow minded ness and lack of research that has gone into so many of the posts there. I recognize many people have done research and made the decisions based on what works for them - and in that case, I support their decisions. But for the ones who just have no clue and spout such nonsense, OMG!!!
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#86 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 04:08 PM
 
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I recognize many people have done research and made the decisions based on what works for them - and in that case, I support their decisions. But for the ones who just have no clue and spout such nonsense, OMG!!!
I had to poke my nose in here...this 'works for our family' excuse is the worst by far...can someone please explain to me how a baby's penis effects anyone else in the family except the boy? Is anyone else planning on using it?

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#87 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 04:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post

sorry if that sounds harsh but what you stated is just very surprising to me.
Don't worry, I didn't think anything any of you said was harsh. I was honestly just curious what all this talk was about. I also want to state, I am NOT trying to be rude. I really enjoy looking at all the forums, I just don't post much because I don't have much to say!

Just for some background from me. . .we did have our son circ'd, and if this one is a boy we do not plan on circumcising him. Even though we have made that decision, it's good to look at the information that is available and be able to tell people exactly why we aren't. So I appreciate all the links people posted.

Kim919: I have one suggestion for you. Ask your boyfriend if you can at least wait 6 months to make the decision after the baby is born. After the baby is born (if it's a girl, it's a non issue) you can do the research together and hopefully in the 6 months or so he can see for himself how good of a thing non-circ is. I asked my hubby if we could do that, just wait 6 months or so and he said sure, then a little while later told me "we probably won't circ him anyway". In my opinion, men just need you to guide them in the right direction with care and understanding. Telling them YOU are going to make the decision no matter what they think only gets them on the defensive and makes life worse.
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#88 of 91 Old 03-28-2008, 06:06 PM
 
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I just wanted to add on a lighter note; my DH is so cheap when he saw that circ'ing was almost $500, he said "Hmmm, I don't think a baby boy needs to be circed. Do you?"

Angela , wife to DH (Oct 1999), mother to DD (Oct 2008)
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#89 of 91 Old 03-29-2008, 09:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Milkymommi View Post
I'm really glad this angle was appraoched... and so respectfully at that We are a Jewish family and we are of those who choose not to circ. It can be so very sensitive so thank you to everyone who so carefully but without shame appraoched such an important topic!!
Kristi, I don't think I mentioned that I'm Jewish also. There are many of us here I believe.
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#90 of 91 Old 03-29-2008, 09:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Kim919 View Post
Oh Boy, the issue just got worse in my house. We told my boyfriend's parents last night, and the first thing his father said when we told him we were having a home birth was "what if its a boy?" I didn't actually understand what he was saying, but my boyfriend apparently picked up on it. He said "the midwife will do it right there" i said "No she wont" then I realized we were gearing up for a huge fight. His parents were absolutly dead set on having a circ, and when we got home and re-opened the argument he is dead set on it also. When it comes right down to the wire.... who makes the decision? Do both parents have to sign off? We are not married, do i get the final decision?

PS: If my child at any point decides himself that HE wants this cosmetic procedure, I have no problem with allowing him to make that choice.
As far as I am concerned, a mother's #1 priority is protecting her children. If anyone, including the child's father, is threatening to cause harm, then my opinion is that the mother must prevent that. Of course, I don't advocate just saying "its my way or the highway" but I do suggest presenting the information and attempting to change opinions via intelligence; however, thats not always possible.

I had this conversation w/in a few dates, so my partner knows exactly how I feel. I wish everyone would discuss this prior to dating to prevent these types of disagreements...but its like parenthood..there will be some disagreements that need to be worked out....its a matter of how its done I guess.

And really...i can find NO logical reason for circ'ing....so bowing to a man and having a child's penis mutilated just perpetuates the "men over women" idea, at least for me. You can agree to allow your son to make his own decision when he's an adult. If he decides to have his penis mutilated, then he can do it.

I do have to add that my ds's intact penis is so much easier to deal w/ than circ'd ones (and yes, unfortunately I know from experience).
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