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#1 of 91 Old 03-17-2008, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am just very happy that there are so many in my DDC that are anti-circ

If anyone is on the fence, hasn't thought about it, or has a partner that wants it done, feel free to pm me or to post here or in the Case Against Circ forum.

His body, his choice.

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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#2 of 91 Old 03-17-2008, 11:05 PM
 
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It's hard for me to even believe it's still an issue... Not circing our son was one of the best and most gentle decisions we've ever made on his behalf. He's such an amazingly sweet natured child- I wonder how that trauma might have been formative and changed him. I'm so glad I don't have to live with any regrets regarding circ.
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#3 of 91 Old 03-17-2008, 11:06 PM
 
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I agree it's a horrible thing.
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#4 of 91 Old 03-17-2008, 11:32 PM
 
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It's hard for me to even believe it's still an issue... Not circing our son was one of the best and most gentle decisions we've ever made on his behalf. He's such an amazingly sweet natured child.
: my son is so calm and loving also. i am so glad we were informed before his birth. i feel awful for parents who make the decision without being informed, and then regret it.......such a sad feeling. i think/hope the tides are slowly changing, though.

:

Veg mama to DS (6/05) and DD (10/08) :
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#5 of 91 Old 03-17-2008, 11:45 PM
 
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i am so glad we were informed before his birth. i feel awful for parents who make the decision without being informed, and then regret it.......such a sad feeling. i think/hope the tides are slowly changing, though.
I agree on all counts.

Wife to a wonderful dh and mom to four beautiful kiddos, dd (3/04):, ds1 (1/06), ds2 (10/08), and ds3 (7/10)
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#6 of 91 Old 03-17-2008, 11:53 PM
 
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Some ppl were pressuring to get DS circ'd but he didn't on account that he was premature and had other things that needed tending to. DH didn't want it because... well, he isn't lol. And I grew up thinking that getting circ'd was the way to go. I am so happy that things just kept getting put off with his circ and it never happened Best thing for my lil bub and from now on if/when we have more boys they will be intact

Wife & Mama to Two Loving Kids DS1 (7/7/07) DS2 (925/08) and DS3 (6/28/12)! And our new furbaby puppy Koda!

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#7 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 12:19 AM
 
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Our OB shook my husbands hand when he found out we did not circ, and said, "good for you - it is completely unnecessary." I could have kissed the man! The nurses at the hospital - a very mainstream northern Virginia hospital - also made it clear on the tour that it was done "for cosmetic reasons only." That caused several tour couples to ask more questions - they'd never heard that before. Just goes to show the power that the medical profession has over people's decisions... I wish more docs and nurses would speak up.
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#8 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 12:39 AM
 
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^ wow that is awesome. I guess there are some semi crunchy ob/nurses at mainstream hospitals!

Wife & Mama to Two Loving Kids DS1 (7/7/07) DS2 (925/08) and DS3 (6/28/12)! And our new furbaby puppy Koda!

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#9 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 04:50 AM
 
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You know, I'm still amazed that its even still an issue, too. I guess I live in my own little bubble of denial...friends that don't circ, co-workers against circ, very low #'s of circ'ing families at work, my own 3 intact guys, etc. I suppose my bubble would burst if I worked the hospital (one of the major reasons why I don't). I was blessed to have had a wonderful mw with my first who gave me a copy of an old Mothering Mag anti-circ reprint. I was convinced ds was actually a girl but even still I was horrified at what I read. I remember bawling by the time I was at the end of that article. Over my dead body was anyone going to touch my precious babe's foreskin. Fast forward through the births of 2 more sweet, loving boys and the decision to leave them intact is all the more meaningful. My almost 9y/o and I talk about why some of his friends look different and I can see it really makes him think. He has said on more than one occasion that he's happy we didn't hurt him like that when he was a baby. I also think deciding to leave our boys intact has been incredibly healing for dh. The power to make different choices for our own children has been such a good thing for him.

Ashley~certified nurse-midwife mama to 6 little novaxnocirc.gifhomebirth.jpglotbirth.gif loves, including sweet Cordelia Jane born at home waterbirth.jpgon 11/12/10.
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#10 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 08:37 AM
 
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Coming from Europe it has never arisen for us (not that it would anyway) but I still find it hard to believe that this ritual is still carried out and seen as normal
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#11 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 09:31 AM
 
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I just had a client comment the other day that wasn't it wonderful that there is a new doc in the next town over who lets parents hold their son while he is getting circ'd!! NO! It is not wonderful. It is cruel. But I guess as long as the parents who have their daughter's gentials mutilated hold them, it is okay :.

Sorry. I have a huge bias against circ. I do give clients an entire binder of information including statements from pediatric bodies, studies, etc. Each section is different. One for people who are undecided, one for people who know they want to, and one for people who know they don't want to. Then I tell them that I am biased. I just can't be unbiased on this one.

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#12 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 09:38 AM
 
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I just had a client comment the other day that wasn't it wonderful that there is a new doc in the next town over who lets parents hold their son while he is getting circ'd!! NO! It is not wonderful. It is cruel. But I guess as long as the parents who have their daughter's gentials mutilated hold them, it is okay :.

Sorry. I have a huge bias against circ. I do give clients an entire binder of information including statements from pediatric bodies, studies, etc. Each section is different. One for people who are undecided, one for people who know they want to, and one for people who know they don't want to. Then I tell them that I am biased. I just can't be unbiased on this one.

I would love to know where you got your info from. I also teach CBE but unfortunately all my stuff is anti-circ. I too am biased, but feel I should at least offer something for those who need info on it. That way I don't have to *talk* about it and express my opinion. Could you pp me please?
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#13 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 10:30 AM
 
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Totally anti-circ here too! We've been blessed with 2 boys, who are intact! I'm so glad that I was informed before having them, and I have my husband to partially thank for that. No one in his family (they're from Italy) is circed, so it was a no-brainer from the get go. Once I read up on it, I was shocked that it's still even done.
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#14 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 11:12 AM
 
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Totally anti-circ myself and so is Chris. I'm glad to see what this thread is about, b/c I might need the support if we have a boy. In our circle (family, friends) it's just unheard of NOT to circ. My MIL made a comment about circ'ing the day we told them the big news, that's how mainstream it is around here. She has 3 boys and they're all circ'ed.

I would just NEVER do it, to me it is completely cosmetic and ridiculous. We also have the full support of Katie, our mw, who actually was quite happy to hear we had no plans of circ'ing if our baby is a boy. She has very strong opinions against it. It was quite reassuring.

Carrie SAHM to Nora Caitlyn (5) and Finnley Dax (2) homebirthing, breastfeeding, babywearing, intactivist, doula mama!         
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#15 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 11:17 AM
 
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I have a messianic jewish couple who do it - It is a little hard for me to deal with - but they do travel (7 hour round trip on the 8th day!) to go to a mohel/dr who does the less radical surgery. I respect their research and reasoning even if I don't agree with their choice...
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#16 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 12:25 PM
 
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My son is not circ'ed, and I have a feeling this new little bean is a boy also. If that's the case, he will definitely be left intact as well. I agree that health care professionals who are against circ can make all the difference. When I was pregnant the first time, DH and I asked a friend who is a labor and delivery nurse about circ, and she described to us exactly how it is done, told us there is no medical reason to do it, and gave us some references. That was just what we needed to decide that our son would be intact (and for us to wonder why anyone would circ a newborn). Then, after our son was born, the pediatrician asked me if we were having him circ'ed and when I said no, she smiled and said, "That's good." She then reinforced our decision by saying that about 50% of boys in our area are not circ'ed now and she believes that number is rising.

When my MIL found out we left Austin intact she was worried. She still thought that intact boys got more infections. But she was surprisingly receptive to me telling her that research had shown that wasn't true and showing her some articles and stats. She understood the analogy of, “When the time comes, we’ll teach him how to clean his penis just like we will teach him how to wash his hands, brush his teeth, etc.” When we were done discussing it, she was glad we hadn’t done it – and when she started helping change his diapers, she loved how easy it was to clean him up! She did circ her sons, but I think I've made a convert out of her. (And it was easier than I though it would be.)

Erika, mama to Austin (9/14/06), (4/08, 13 weeks gestation), and Sierra (7/3/09, 27 weeks gestation)
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#17 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 01:29 PM
 
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Please don't lecture me or offer help on this but I had to respond. I am sad to say that I don't find circ necessary and would prefer not to do it but DH won't even discuss it. I brought it up and he completely shut down the converstaion before it started. He's not willing to even listen to any education or anything. He's circ'd and wants his son to look like him of course. Oh if he only knew. I'm hoping since the OB we chose is pretty darn crunchy, she'll bring it up and offer him education. Coming from a professional, he would listen I think. *sigh* It's all very sad.
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#18 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 01:44 PM
 
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Please don't lecture me or offer help on this but I had to respond. I am sad to say that I don't find circ necessary and would prefer not to do it but DH won't even discuss it. I brought it up and he completely shut down the converstaion before it started. He's not willing to even listen to any education or anything. He's circ'd and wants his son to look like him of course. Oh if he only knew. I'm hoping since the OB we chose is pretty darn crunchy, she'll bring it up and offer him education. Coming from a professional, he would listen I think. *sigh* It's all very sad.
Tara, i'm in the same boat with my DP. ugh! I have 3 other boys, who were circ'd, I didn't know then what I know now. he's brought that up as well and I told him I've since done a ton of research and if this baby is a boy i want him to stay intact. It's the same with vax...ugh. I have a feeling this baby is a boy and I want him to stay intact and non vax. I have told my DP we will discuss this futher, once he gets all the research and information. I'm hoping he'll change his mind after reading. Ok, so everyone send me your links, books, etc.

~Yvonne
Mama to nine.

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#19 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Tara, because you replied, I can only assume that you do want someone to comment. You are in a very difficult situation, but the bottom line is, you are the mother and you have every legal and moral right to stand up to protect your son. It truely doesn't matter if your hubby refuses to talk to you about it or learn anything about it. You wouldn't allow him to have your newborn daughter's labia and clitoral hood surgically removed. You wouldn't allow him to cut off any other perfectly healthy body part on your child. You, yourself, know that it is wrong... that's education enough for both of you

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I'm hoping since the OB we chose is pretty darn crunchy, she'll bring it up and offer him education. Coming from a professional, he would listen I think. *sigh* It's all very sad.
Absolutely bring it up with the OB, in private, that you want your husband to hear the facts from a professional. If your OB is an ethical doctor (I know many un-crunchy people that are against circ), she will gladly tell him the truth. And the truth is, it is an unnecessary cosmetic procedure with major risks and over-estimated benifits. And that if your son wants to make the choice to cosmetically alter his body as an adult, he will be given adequate pain relief and follow up care. And will not have an open wound seeped in urine and feces... That's the big thing for me. It cannot be "better" to have an open wound in a diaper than as an adult who can care for it himself.
And, have you SEEN how it is done? I've only looked at still photos and that was more than enough for me. And to know that my Dh went through that as a baby is very, very sad...

And no, I'm not trying to lecture or offer help, I am trying to lend support with what is a horrifying situation to be in.

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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#20 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 01:50 PM
 
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good luck Tara and Yvonne! I guess I was lucky that DH is intact himself... I wish more men made decisions based on reseach with this particular subject rather than "i want him to look like me" lol. Although that is exactally what my DH said!

Oh and another thing, it might be painful for you to watch, but you might want to have your DH/DP look at a video of a circ... they will se the immense pain and how completely uncesearry (sorry i cant spell) it is. Good luck mamas!

Wife & Mama to Two Loving Kids DS1 (7/7/07) DS2 (925/08) and DS3 (6/28/12)! And our new furbaby puppy Koda!

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#21 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 02:48 PM
 
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I found a page with some videos on here.

*Viewer Discretion Advised*

I could not watch most of these, I broke down crying and I had to click out of them...

Wife & Mama to Two Loving Kids DS1 (7/7/07) DS2 (925/08) and DS3 (6/28/12)! And our new furbaby puppy Koda!

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#22 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 03:20 PM
 
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When I was pregnant with my son I thought I'd leave it up to my husband who saw no reason NOT to. Then one day I just was consumed with rage and this urge to protect my baby. I felt physically sick at the thought of them taking a knife to his penis. My baby! If I couldn't protect him then what did that say about me? I feel sick just remembering how it felt.

I began to bombard my husband with information about it and he agreed with me. It was a huge fight - not because he really wanted to do it but because he felt like I was being a bully. And I was. . I was just completely panicked.

ITA with whoever likened it to clitoral surgery or whatever. Can you feel in your gut the rage that comes when you imagine your husband giving a nod to a doctor to do that to your baby girl? It is no different.

Hugs to those who are working through this. It is very very hard.

DS (6.06), DD (10.08), DD (05.11).

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#23 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 03:29 PM
 
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Not for nothing, but I'm haunted by something my midwife said. People say it doesn't hurt the baby b/c they give anesthesia, but she says she has seen 100's of them done, and the baby always screams when he is cut.

She said, "Yeah, they're infants and they may forget the pain. But, you will also forget the pain of childbirth -- that doesn't mean it didn't hurt."

Not only that, but they have to be strapped down and that's almost worse - seeing a defenseless baby strapped down and someone coming at him with a scalpel...it makes my heart hurt.

Carrie SAHM to Nora Caitlyn (5) and Finnley Dax (2) homebirthing, breastfeeding, babywearing, intactivist, doula mama!         
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#24 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 04:13 PM
 
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My husband and I had also had this struggle. Our first two boys are circ'd.. mostly because I didn't have alot of knowledge on the subject and DH wanted to have it done. Every male that I had known, and every baby that I have ever babysat for had also been circ'd so it was all I knew. I asked the ped about it, he reassured me it was necessary and I allowed it to happen.

When I was pregnant with my third son, I was working with migrant babies and saw my first uncirc'd penis. I remember thinking how "beautiful" an uncirc'd penis looked, just as God had intended and I started to cry thinking about what I let happen to my boys.. I talked with the moms of the infants and asked them about ease of care, etc...

My husband was very adamant that my third son be circ'd. He was worried about what the older boys would think etc... I totally put my foot down and refused to have it done. We had many fights about it, but he finally just let it go. Now he sees that we have had a much easier time caring for Wyatt's baby bits than we ever did with the other two boys. My second son had repreated infections and was always raw on the tip. He also had some problems with the skin trying to reattach itself.

Sorry for the novel, but I wanted moms who were trying to decide to see how I have evolved in my thinking. My greatest regret as a mom so far is having my first two boys circ'd. It is something permanent that you can never undo and I feel very guilty about it still.
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#25 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 04:34 PM
 
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I'm lucky enough to have my husband on board with leaving any sons intact. I'm afraid I would be forced to divorce him if he tried to insist on unneccessary cosmetic surgery for a newborn baby.
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#26 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 04:38 PM
 
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I'm lucky enough to have my husband on board with leaving any sons intact. I'm afraid I would be forced to divorce him if he tried to insist on unneccessary cosmetic surgery for a newborn baby.
LoL thats what i said haha!!!

Wife & Mama to Two Loving Kids DS1 (7/7/07) DS2 (925/08) and DS3 (6/28/12)! And our new furbaby puppy Koda!

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#27 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 05:41 PM
 
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I found a page with some videos on here.

*Viewer Discretion Advised*

I could not watch most of these, I broke down crying and I had to click out of them...
Thanks for that link.....I'm definitely showing DH that.
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#28 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 05:47 PM
 
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It's hard for me to even believe it's still an issue... Not circing our son was one of the best and most gentle decisions we've ever made on his behalf. He's such an amazingly sweet natured child- I wonder how that trauma might have been formative and changed him. I'm so glad I don't have to live with any regrets regarding circ.
I'm not in your ddc, but I just have to say, my son is circ'd (I would not make the same choice again knowing what I know now of course) and he is also an amazing, loving, good natured, gentle child. I think that suggesting that a child could not be that way due to being circ'd is going way overboard.

Also, I am not hard on myself about my decision, and I don't think any other mamas should be either. We do better when we know better.

sarah, mama to e & j 8/08, and big brother 8/06
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#29 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 06:01 PM
 
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I'm not in your ddc, but I just have to say, my son is circ'd (I would not make the same choice again knowing what I know now of course) and he is also an amazing, loving, good natured, gentle child. I think that suggesting that a child could not be that way due to being circ'd is going way overboard.

Also, I am not hard on myself about my decision, and I don't think any other mamas should be either. We do better when we know better.
I didn't say that to offend anyone but I am entitled to say it. MDC does not support RIC and neither do I. I believe circumcision is emotionally as well as physically damaging. It's important to remember that there are lots of first time mothers here who won't benefit from any sugar coating.
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#30 of 91 Old 03-18-2008, 06:03 PM
 
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I'm not in your ddc, but I just have to say, my son is circ'd (I would not make the same choice again knowing what I know now of course) and he is also an amazing, loving, good natured, gentle child. I think that suggesting that a child could not be that way due to being circ'd is going way overboard.

Also, I am not hard on myself about my decision, and I don't think any other mamas should be either. We do better when we know better.
Well said! My son is circumsized, and is a sweet, loving little boy. I also do not think I'm a terrible person for it, and won't be bullied into thinking so. My husband was circumsized at age 7, and of course, he remembers it, and he wanted his son circumsized when he wouldn't remember it. Well, having going through that, I can't see doing it again and I pray for a girl just to avoid the arguement. It was too hard to see him in such pain, it was just terrible. It will be a fight for sure, but I won't give in this time. I was upset at first that my ob who performed it (not circ'd, I gathered from the convo about whether we would or wouldn't circ, he was very ademant that it wasn't necessary, only cosmetic, etc) only did a partial circ, but now I'm glad that's sort of intact. I like the idea of him looking similar to his potential brother, who will be completely intact.

Megan, momma to Colin and Ainsley
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