Reverse racism - Page 11 - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-23-2009, 05:54 PM
 
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just wanted to say no its not white peopls fault that the cab driver was killed, that is an individuals actions no matter what his race is.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:54 PM
 
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Wow. So basically, everything my husband experienced at the hands of AA's is *all white people's fault*.
I'm going to go back and reread because I'm not sure where this was expressed. ??
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That's what I'm getting, anyway. I'm not trying to be obtuse here. And I'm not trying to be mean. Perhaps our experience is completely unique and we just had a run of bad luck. But the fact is, our experience really doesn't bear out what others are saying is the absolute reality. Because of this, conversations like these leave me feeling very frustrated and confused.
I don't think anyone here is trying to be mean either. I think you have missed the points made here.
Yes, these conversations are frustrating- but I think it's primarily because we're speaking of 2 different things altogether. We aren't trying to be dismissive of your situation.
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And if having the ability and capability to *kill* someone, or assault them, or terrorize them is not power, what is? It was the unarmed African cab driver that was powerless, not the young man who put the gun to his head. Again, there is no responsibility for that at all, it's all laid at the feet of white people?
Again, I'm not sure where you got the notion that anyone said this crime happened because of white people. ??

When we speak of power, we're speaking systemic not individual power.
The power to keep **entire** groups of people from getting employment, quality education, safe housing, etc..
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The reason I bring it up at all is because I feel like these discussions are so one-sided. This supposed systemic racism and oppression applied to people of color is not something that has held my dh back at all.
Neither has it held back MY family (also immigrants)- but they aren't Americans, nor have the majority of them had a legacy from slavery.
My family was never robbed of their culture nor their language nor their pride, they came with entrepreneurial skills and from a middle class background, they have options, they haven't been indoctrinated to feel inferior, our family hasn't had generations of social problems, etc. etc..
My family's very successful here in the states (in fact, my nationality- is "successful" in the states), and many still speak English poorly. That's exactly why I can see the privileges that we've had that others here don't. Even when those very groups have demonstrated animosity towards my parents' ethnic group, I don't dismiss the disadvantages they've experienced nor the degree of their disadvantage.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:12 PM
 
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I'm going to go back and reread because I'm not sure where this was expressed. ??
This was futuremama's response to the question you referred to:
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Not trying to be rude but hell yes some of its white peoples fault.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:17 PM
 
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Even when those very groups have demonstrated animosity towards my parents' ethnic group, I don't dismiss the disadvantages they've experienced nor the degree of their disadvantage.
I'm not denying or dismissing disadvantages.

I do think that there can be differing responses to disadvantages, and the response of violence and then in turn trying to bring down others around you is a wrong and self-defeating one. And that is a *chosen* response, not the responsibility of anybody except for the person doing it. Because while all the garbage dh has been the recipient of has come from AA, not all the AA folks we know are like that, even those who come from the exact same upbringing/culture/background as the ones who are awful.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:27 PM
 
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I'm not denying or dismissing disadvantages.

I do think that there can be differing responses to disadvantages, and the response of violence and then in turn trying to bring down others around you is a wrong and self-defeating one. And that is a *chosen* response, not the responsibility of anybody except for the person doing it. Because while all the garbage dh has been the recipient of has come from AA, not all the AA folks we know are like that, even those who come from the exact same upbringing/culture/background as the ones who are awful.
But your posts makes it seem that way. I do you know he hasn't experienced racism from white people? Your posts seem to keep saying, AA treat my African husband bad and white people don't even do it.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:27 PM
 
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When we speak of power, we're speaking systemic not individual power.
The power to keep **entire** groups of people from getting employment, quality education, safe housing, etc..
See, this is one of the things that frustrates/confuses me.

My husband is black, has a thick accent, and doesn't even have an American highschool diploma. If the oppression is so systematic, why has he not run into it? It's not like he carries me around in his wallet so he can take advantage of my white privelage every time he applies for a job or has a business deal to complete.
I believe racism exists. I know my parents saw it when they were in rural VA as doctors. My grandma was a self-avowed racist. But talking with my dh, and watching his adjustmet to the states, I really can't see it as all the fault of white people, either now or historically.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:34 PM
 
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I do think that there can be differing responses to disadvantages, and the response of violence and then in turn trying to bring down others around you is a wrong and self-defeating one. And that is a *chosen* response, not the responsibility of anybody except for the person doing it. Because while all the garbage dh has been the recipient of has come from AA, not all the AA folks we know are like that, even those who come from the exact same upbringing/culture/background as the ones who are awful.
We keep straying from the fact that if AAs have expressed prejudices against my family - whether unjustly or not- it's not "racism".
AAs haven't kept my family from good housing, good legal representation, higher education, voting, employment, starting up businesses, etc... and definitely they haven't denied us these for several generations. See?

We keep straying from the main point here. No one has said that those incidents of prejudice are just and right.

futuremama wrote that it's white people's fault while I was writing my other post (and cooking and attending children ). You'll have to take it up with her.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:35 PM
 
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I'm not denying or dismissing disadvantages.

I do think that there can be differing responses to disadvantages, and the response of violence and then in turn trying to bring down others around you is a wrong and self-defeating one. And that is a *chosen* response, not the responsibility of anybody except for the person doing it. Because while all the garbage dh has been the recipient of has come from AA, not all the AA folks we know are like that, even those who come from the exact same upbringing/culture/background as the ones who are awful.
In your first statement about your husband, it sounded like a blanket statement about most Black Americans. That resenting and acting out against the other goes both ways. Like try getting a foreign cabbie in DC to stop for a black man. According to my brother and my cousins it's still hard to do with Obama as president.

Glad to know your circle of friends or encounters is broader than the first scenario you painted
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:36 PM
 
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But your posts makes it seem that way. I do you know he hasn't experienced racism from white people? Your posts seem to keep saying, AA treat my African husband bad and white people don't even do it.
But that is his experience. Not that white people haven't been ignorant and stupid at times. There are stupid people littering the planet.
But that white people have not been the ones taking action to hold him back or hurt him. And while white folks may spout dumb stuff, it has never been on the level of "monkeys in the trees" which he has gotten numerous times from AA people. What others would call "oppression" and racism has not, in his experience, come from the group that supposedly has all the power and does all the oppressing.

When he came here, he did fear he would be held back due to racism by whites. Experience has changed that opinion. And again, I would like to clarify that this is not about all AA. We don't hate AA people. Not at all. Just that all the bad stuff he has experienced has come from that group while at the same time being told that that is the group that is downtrodden and oppressed and powerless.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:36 PM
 
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It doesn't mean it will affect everyone in equal ways. It may be better for him to be an immigrant. I know many black people who are successful but they have experienced racism. You are making it black and white there is a gray in between. I am more successful than most but have experienced blatant racism, it hasn't held me back but for my twin brother it has a different feeling. I can stand up to it, he gives in to it and gives up.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:39 PM
 
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We keep straying from the fact that if AAs have expressed prejudices against my family - whether unjustly or not- it's not "racism".
AAs haven't kept my family from good housing, good legal representation, higher education, voting, employment, starting up businesses, etc... and definitely they haven't denied us these for several generations. See?
I understand.

But on the other hand, none of this has been denied my dh either, and he definitely could not be mistaken for white.

Neither was this the experience of our Congolese friend who came here way back in the 70's.

What I'm trying to understand is, if the entire system is skewed against people of color, why do immigrants, even very dark-skinned immigrants, tend to do so well, while at the same time recieving a great deal of ugliness from people they would have assumed would be cheering them on?
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:53 PM
 
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My husband .... doesn't even have an American highschool diploma.
In some instances, this one's a plus. :
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:01 PM
 
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What I'm trying to understand is, if the entire system is skewed against people of color, why do immigrants, even very dark-skinned immigrants, tend to do so well, while at the same time recieving a great deal of ugliness from people they would have assumed would be cheering them on?
This is such a common ploy to pit one against the other. I have heard it so often. Often by people not willing to look at what's been done here. In the US with systematic racism knocking at every door. You have generations of children raised in environments that say you are nothing, you come from nothing, in fact we will treat you like nothing. By Neglecting you communities, your schools and patrol your neighborhood for every offense so that most of you end up with a record.

How many immigrant when coming even from poverty come here with that baggage?
And to dispel the myth. All the black immigrants coming here aren't getting over the rainbow. And sometimes getting stuck in the same game. I could take you to a few neighborhoods in NY and DC. The ones that make it, let's just say we have about an equal number Black Americans achieving success. We work just as hard. Don't believe the hype about collective laziness. And trust even with Obama as president brothers and sisters of a darker hue are still getting stopped for driving while black.
But I supposed that good police officer is just doing his good job of racial profiling and keeping our streets safe.
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:17 PM
 
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cappuccinosmom have you or your husband heard about how many banks in the US have systematically offered inferior loans to people of color? It's not hype. My dh was even part of an undercover operation to prove the very existence of such practices. It made national news on ABC. I posted the video links on Mothering for all to see but that forum is gone.
Here is a link Just so you know his black skin might feel the taste of white discrimination here too
Part 2
Part 3
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:21 PM
 
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cappuccinosmom have you or your husband heard about how many banks in the US have systematically offered inferior loans to people of color? It's not hype. My dh was even part of an undercover operation to prove the very existence of such practices. It made national news on ABC. I posted the video links on Mothering for all to see but that forum is gone.
Here is a link Just so you know his black skin might feel the taste of white discrimination here too
I've read studies that show POC pay more for cars and insurance as well.

for intuitive readings click here :
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:25 PM
 
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I don't believe in reverse racism. I believe all racism is racism.
Sorry I didn't have anything more constructive to say. But this is something that really bothers me and had to get it out!

Thanks.

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Old 03-23-2009, 07:35 PM
 
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groundhog day!!!!

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Old 03-23-2009, 09:04 PM
 
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I understand.

But on the other hand, none of this has been denied my dh either, and he definitely could not be mistaken for white.

Neither was this the experience of our Congolese friend who came here way back in the 70's.

What I'm trying to understand is, if the entire system is skewed against people of color, why do immigrants, even very dark-skinned immigrants, tend to do so well, while at the same time recieving a great deal of ugliness from people they would have assumed would be cheering them on?
Why do you think everything that happens to your dh happens to all black people? It is skewed against POC and they may not even know the system is being skewed they may just accept that thats the way it is because they haven't grown up here.

Then you keep saying that AA should be supportive and etc of all black people but these people are the way they are because of their personalities not because of their skin color. You have haters that are white, black, red, yellow whatever. Are you only supportive of white people? I think you are supportive of someone, you want to be supportive of because you like them and have a reason to be not because they are the same color as you. I am just not getting it.
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:28 PM
 
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Indeed, Yinsum.

I have had several thoughts that I need to get out, but I'm a little distracted so I'm not sure if I can express them effectively. Sorry in advance...

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This was futuremama's response to the question you referred to:
Quote:
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Not trying to be rude but hell yes some of its white peoples fault.
futurmama8 is right. She didn't say it was all white people's fault, which is what you said was being said initially. She said that SOME of it is the fault of white people. And she's right. Some of it is.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:37 PM
 
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ETA: in case someone missed it. NA did not decide to be put on resevations. And often it wasn't their ancestral land. And to top it off this size of the land provided was often decreased because the white settlers deemed it unfair.
Yes, yes, I know this. I just didn't know what the power structure was currently. I was under the impression that N/A had their own govt. But as futurmama points out, it is still within the confines of the government of the U.S. so it doesn't matter.

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When we say power we mean in the whole country not just in certain places. The whole US is run by white people. It was white people who decided to put aside this land for NA. NA are less then 1% of the population, they definitely are affected by racism.

I hope it stays open too. We all have definitely been civil and I love it.
This answers my question. Thanks.

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cross posted with you but yeah your post made me laugh.
Really? My whole post? What else about it made you laugh? I realize my question about reservations may have been extremely funny to you but at least I am asking questions and trying to learn and see other points of view. I didn't grow up where there was a lot of diversity let alone any reservations so some things I really don't know. At least I'm trying. But I am really curious about what else you found funny? I do think this entire thread and way of thinking is 90% representative of America only. I'd love to hear some different perspectives.

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Don't know about other folks, but I already agreed with Susuwatari that it's possible for white people to experience racism elsewhere on the globe because race definitions change through time and have different criteria globally.

I think so too

They can certainly experience prejudice because of their race.
But... if they're able to leave China or move to another place- then that removes the power issue, no?

Most people in most places have the ability to leave (except maybe in North Korea) no? I don't think being able to leave really comes into play. If it's racism it's racism. Leaving might be an answer to that but being able to leave doesn't mean it didn't exist in the first place yk?

I think people are misunderstanding that many of us are saying that white people don't experience prejudices because of their race- that's not what we're saying.
I understand that. I just don't understand those saying that white people can never experience racism anywhere in the world. Again, I think that view is rather sheltered.

What this discussion seems to have turned into is racism/prejudice in America. And that is fine, most people are Americans living in America. I just don't get how you can, with limited view/knowlege/experience of the rest of the world, declare what is true in America to be true globally but I guess that it the kind of thing Americans are known for
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:49 PM
 
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I just don't get how you can, with limited view/knowledge/experience of the rest of the world, declare what is true in America to be true globally but I guess that it the kind of thing Americans are known for
Most u.s-ians have a habit of having tunnel vision, in regards to seeing things from a non u.s-ian perspective. But this is kind of OT. I just thought it was nice to know I'm not the only person who feels this way about u.s-ians.

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Old 03-23-2009, 10:50 PM
 
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Really? My whole post? What else about it made you laugh? I realize my question about reservations may have been extremely funny to you but at least I am asking questions and trying to learn and see other points of view. I didn't grow up where there was a lot of diversity let alone any reservations so some things I really don't know. At least I'm trying. But I am really curious about what else you found funny? I do think this entire thread and way of thinking is 90% representative of America only. I'd love to hear some different perspectives.
No I wasn't laughing at your post that was a response to one of Yinsums posts.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:50 PM
 
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Really? My whole post? What else about it made you laugh? I realize my question about reservations may have been extremely funny to you but at least I am asking questions and trying to learn and see other points of view. I didn't grow up where there was a lot of diversity let alone any reservations so some things I really don't know. At least I'm trying. But I am really curious about what else you found funny? I do think this entire thread and way of thinking is 90% representative of America only. I'd love to hear some different perspectives.

Futurmamas giggle was directed at my remark about the reservation question. And granted you did not grow up where there was diversity this also speaks to the very writing of history. For you to go through your schooling to not to have learned about Native Americans being forced to live on reservations, speaks volumes about who is in power and who gets to tell their story.
Sometimes things are so sad that you have to laugh. Cuz it keeps you on the right side of sanity
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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Most u.s-ians have a habit of having tunnel vision, in regards to seeing things from a non u.s-ian perspective. But this is kind of OT. I just thought it was nice to know I'm not the only person who feels this way about the u.s.
I agree but also we can not speak on something we know nothing about. I wouldn't want to speculate about another country when what I am saying is totally wrong. If I have had to be in another country long enough to know their ways and how things work then I will speak on it otherwise I really can't give an opinion. I would like to learn from anothers perspective though.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:01 PM
 
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What this discussion seems to have turned into is racism/prejudice in America. And that is fine, most people are Americans living in America. I just don't get how you can, with limited view/knowlege/experience of the rest of the world, declare what is true in America to be true globally but I guess that it the kind of thing Americans are known for [/COLOR]

Turned into? That's how it started. It seemed the need to deflect or water down the issue of racism in the US brought about the the victimization of white people globally.
There are global issues. Look deeper then what you see on the surface. Find out why people around the world might react the way they do. Again putting this article out there.


And it seems that the privilege are known for distracting others in order to avoid solutions for the oppressed
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:39 PM
 
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I find it ironic that the very people who are most impacted by racism in the US and the inability of the privileged to clearly see and address that racism are being accused of being narrow-minded. Oh, and of deflecting from the original topic. Which was, in fact, based on racism in the US. Hmmm...
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:41 PM
 
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I find it ironic that the very people who are most impact by racism in the US and the inability of the privileged to clearly see and address that racism are being accused of being narrow-minded. Oh, and of deflecting from the original topic. Which was, in fact, based on racism in the US. Hmmm...
I was just saying usians are narrow minded, in general. completely OT, just so you know that I was in no way commenting on the racism issue this thread is discussing.

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Old 03-23-2009, 11:46 PM
 
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I was just saying usians are narrow minded, in general. completely OT, just so you know that I was in no way commenting on the racism issue this thread is discussing.
really? are you really ok with making such a sweeping characterization? It sounds like such a narrow minded statement to make.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:50 PM
 
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I was just saying usians are narrow minded, in general. completely OT, just so you know that I was in no way commenting on the racism issue this thread is discussing.
And yet, the statement was made on this thread. How else is it supposed to be interpreted?
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:51 PM
 
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really? are you really ok with making such a sweeping characterization? It sounds like such a narrow minded statement to make.
No, I'm not. I take it back.

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