I met a man from Afghanistan (Afghan man?)....can it realistically go anywhere? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 40 Old 08-09-2009, 07:40 PM
 
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OP, why are you wasting your time like this?

What is the appeal here? Even if you are not practicing your faith right now, you yourself admit that pretty much you consider yourself a Christian and you want your children to be Christian, period. If that's the case, fine, but don't toy around with non-Christian men when you know right from the start that you are setting EVERYONE (you, him, and all of your children) up for heartbreak and difficulty.

Have you had a lot of experience dating? Is your family pressuring you (unwittingly or not) to get married? Do you feel like you're running out of time to get married and have children? It's not like there aren't tons of single Christian men out there. (though admittedly, many of them make the same sort of boneheaded mistake of "missionary" or "we'll work it out after we have kids" dating.) If this man only hangs out with Afghan friends, in what context did you meet? Online? Work?

I get that it's scary to let go of this relationship. But sometimes you do need to let some things go. It's not that you're a horrible person or that he is--sometimes the most loving thing we can do for someone we care about is to head problems off at the pass so that we don't make their lives a total hell when the children come along.

Which means that both you AND he would have to get real. And you'd also have to come to terms with the fact that talking about something as instinctual as religion prior to kids is often a very different ballgame than once the children ARE here, and the partner who "didn't care" is having every instinct rubbed in their face and watching their culture disappear in their children's lives.

I think you need to look really carefully as to why you are willing to violate your religion's rules (there is a prohibition against marrying unbelievers), why you are willing to risk your children's home stability and happiness. Surely there must be a big payoff that you're expecting. You need to look at that very closely and see if it's realistic, as well as worth the risk.
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#32 of 40 Old 08-10-2009, 01:42 AM
 
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Did not read other answers. WAnted to answer "cold".

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Originally Posted by samy23 View Post
I spoke to afghan boyfriend last night on the phone and asked a couple things. His answers have me all confused again!
Bad sign. Why would you be confused? If he's trying to confuse (vs. just being vague) then he is trying to hide something.

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He said he was hoping I would want to convert to Islam in the future, but that it wouldn't bother him if I didn't.
Lie. There is a lie in there somewhere. Either he wants a Muslim wife (nothing wrong with that) or he doesn't. He probably does. If he does but says he doesn't, that's really bad.

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About having children, he said he would want them raised as muslim if we were both muslims ourselves, but since he knows I don't have any desire to convert now or in the future, he said as long as I take them to a christian church and they are raised with a religion so they grow up with good morals, then he doesn't mind that.
Again, best case scenario, he himself is naive. Why would he want / allow his children following a religion that is tantamount to blasphemy (Jesus as God being blasphemy (technically there is no blasphemy per se in Islam but this is the closest word I have for it in English) in Islam)?

A decent Muslim man would be honest about his expectations. Even my BIL told my now-SIL that if she was going to date him and get into a serious relationship, she needed to know that the kids would be raised in his tradition and she'd be asked to wear traditional (vs. modern) clothes. And they are both Muslims!

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Then he said when they are old enough they can choose if they want to follow my religion or his...and I pointed out what about when they are too young to choose, and I want to take them to my church, that might upset him? or if he wants to take him to the muslim place of worship, that might upset me...and his answer was it wouldn't matter to him.
Bravo to you for asking the tough questions. It's so important before bringing kids into it not to glaze over this stuff. Again, don't get me wrong, there's NOTHING wrong with raising a child Muslim, but you want to know whether you will beforehand.

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He even said if we were together a long time he would be willing to convert from muslim to christian! -Ofcourse I told him he shouldn't change religion because of his partner
.

This is bizarre. I'm having a hard time believing he really could mean this. He would leave Islam???

???

Believe it or not, that's not a good sign. I mean, imagine if a Christian or Buddhist guy were feeding this line to a Muslim girl... you'd be like, "Oh, honey, this guy is full of it or worse."

Quote:
So now I'm not really sure what to think about all that stuff. He also said his last girlfriend was Catholic, and it didn't cause any problems between them, so why should it with us. :
To me, it comes down to his relationship with his mom.

The way he treats his mom is the way he'll treat you, more or less. If he doesn't treat her with the absolute minimum of respect required in his culture (phone calls, remittances) then he's not going to treat you with respect.

Really.

It's not Islam, it's not Afghanistan, it's this guy. He is obviously telling you want he thinks you want to hear, either because he's smitten (but he's going too far), he wants to get you in bed, or he wants to get you in the immigration office.

How come we can see it when you can't see it so clearly?

Mainly because we know Central/South Asian guys and also because we've seen these relationships, like UmmZaynab said! They *do* follow a pattern.

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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#33 of 40 Old 08-10-2009, 03:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
It's not Islam, it's not Afghanistan, it's this guy.
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#34 of 40 Old 08-10-2009, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I haven't met his friends yet, but I have seen him out with them. I don't think he has any female friends, and since he doesn't go to the muslim place of worship maybe that's why he hasn't found a muslim or Afghan girlfriend. He also seems the shy quiet type. I did actually say maybe it would be better if he was with a Muslim woman instead, to which he replied "No" like he really didn't want that.

Do you think it could be that he really isn't bothered about being Muslim? That's what it's sounding like to me. For one, he said he isn't a practising muslim. -He prays and doesn't eat pork, that's all he said he does. Secondly, although he said he would prefer me to be Muslim, straight after that he said he really doesn't care what religion I am. Thirdly he said he would even consider converting to Christianity, anyone serious about their religion surely wouldn't say that! Oh and fourthly he doesn't mind what religion his future child/ren are brought up as, as long as they are brought up with a religion.

I did ask him about the whole visa subject, to which he replied he has citizenship and never has to leave. -I need to find out more about that. Could he have been granted citizenship or Asylum or whatever it's called, due to how dangerous it was in Afghanistan when he left there? That would make sense.

I also will ask him about his family who are back over there, if they are going to try to come here, what sort of contact he has with them, if he sends money, if he plans on going back to see them or what.

EdnaMarie unfortunately I can't see what his relationship is like with his mom as she still lives in Afghanistan. He's told me he misses his family and his mom was very protective of him, sounds like they had a close relationship.

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#35 of 40 Old 08-10-2009, 10:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samy23 View Post
For one, he said he isn't a practising muslim. -He prays and doesn't eat pork, that's all he said he does.
Praying is the basically the highest dediction in Islam that there is. If he prays, he IS in fact a practicing Muslim. I just can't believe that a man who prays doesn't want his family to be muslims too. It's contradictory to the religion (the father is the family's religious leader).

This guy is trying to pull a fast one on you. I'm sorry.

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#36 of 40 Old 08-10-2009, 02:01 PM
 
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samy for someone who still prays i am sure he is going to have a hard time with seeing his wife from another religion, his children practise another religion. in that culture, religion is not just religion but a way of life. he probably does not realise it himself. and what he is telling you he really thinks he means it. but marriage changes everything.

another red flag is the closeness to his family. his mother even from a distance could have a pretty strong detrimental effect on the marriage. i grew up in that culture. his mom/family is much more stronger now just coz of the distance than ever. in my culture an individual never maries just an individual. its a marriage of families. he just cant take that part ouit of it. he may be supportive of you and try to be there for you. however if her mom disagrees he will be extremely torn and it will definitely impact the marriage. i have seen this far too often sadly enough.

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#37 of 40 Old 08-10-2009, 03:06 PM
 
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It sounds like you are really smiitten with this guy, but realistically, I don't see how it can grow into a real relationship. It seems to me that he is just telling you what you want to hear. How long have you been dating him? It seems odd to me that you haven't met any of his friends. Also, as someone else stated if he prays then he is practicing. So for him to tell you that religion doesnt matter seems very decietful. I think that him telling you that he would convert to Christianity is a load of bull too. It sounds like he is just saying what you want to hear. Why would a practicing Muslim convert just for a girl? You have alreasy stated that you wouldn't even consider converting to Islam for him. I hate to say this, but he kind of sounds like one of those guys who comes to the states and sows his wild oats with American girls for a while but then has his family find a good girl from his country when he is ready to settle down.
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#38 of 40 Old 08-10-2009, 03:21 PM
 
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You do sound pretty determined to find reasons why this guy is ok, the glaring, non-dissipating red flags notwithstanding. So really, best of luck to you ... I hope everything works out for the best. But, as a previous poster said, I hope too that if it doesn't, and if you start to feel like you got something other than what you expected, you do remember what was said here and that you don't become one of those women who feel like they have a tale to tell about Muslim men in general.
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#39 of 40 Old 08-10-2009, 03:25 PM
 
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As a woman who witnessed my mother's 2nd marriage to a relatively new immigant Muslim man, I would say that most odds are against you. Her relationship ended catastrophically. She died broke, heartbroken and alone.
As a woman who has seen all of the red flags in love and jumped in anyway, I would say "Good Luck". We make our choices despite what others say anyway.
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#40 of 40 Old 08-12-2009, 01:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samy23 View Post
I don't think he has any female friends
See, I find that odd. Most men I know, including Afghan men, have female friends if they have traveled. The only ones who don't are very, very conservative.


Quote:
He also seems the shy quiet type. I did actually say maybe it would be better if he was with a Muslim woman instead, to which he replied "No" like he really didn't want that.
Did you ask why? I know my own husband would love a Muslim woman. He made a mistake and married me. (He doesn't say that. He says that he has faith I'll convert, though I told him from the beginning that it's NEVER going to happen... I thought that meant he accepted me... it meant he wasn't listening.)



Quote:
Do you think it could be that he really isn't bothered about being Muslim
Guys aren't bothered about much when they think there's a chance at getting laid.

Quote:
For one, he said he isn't a practising muslim. -He prays and doesn't eat pork, that's all he said he does.
Well, that's more than a lot of practicing Muslims I know! Most of them pray erratically if at all. And some "cultural Muslims" do eat pork. Frankly, I would believe someone was not practicing if s/he ate pork.

Quote:
Thirdly he said he would even consider converting to Christianity, anyone serious about their religion surely wouldn't say that!
Unless he thought it wasn't a sin to lie to someone who isn't a Muslim, which an uneducated, lazy-minded Muslim (or person of any religion) might think.


"Oh and fourthly he doesn't mind what religion his future child/ren are brought up as, as long as they are brought up with a religion."

Believe me: I am in a relationship that started with these words. It can change. Unless you are prepared to have them raised Muslim, don't get into it.

Quote:
I did ask him about the whole visa subject, to which he replied he has citizenship and never has to leave. -I need to find out more about that. Could he have been granted citizenship or Asylum or whatever it's called, due to how dangerous it was in Afghanistan when he left there? That would make sense.
Yes, he could have, or for any number of other reasons.

Quote:
EdnaMarie unfortunately I can't see what his relationship is like with his mom as she still lives in Afghanistan. He's told me he misses his family and his mom was very protective of him, sounds like they had a close relationship.
Here's part of his relationship: They are shooting freaking rockets in Kandahar and Herat, the American army is going house to house in some cities, and the tribesmen still drag girls out and stone them (yes, this happens WEEKLY in Afghanistan, not so much in the north but in the south and west it does all the time), and your friend has citizenship which means he can invite his parents and all his siblings over on green cards, but he's not doing it.

In other words, he could give them the gift of life itself and he's not?

And he's not sending money.

That is his relationship. That says a lot!!!

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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