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#61 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 02:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by newcastlemama View Post
I have also noticed, now that it is spring time here, that the parks are pretty much empty during the weekdays.
This is the biggest reason I'd like to see more home/unschooling around here. DD's only 5 right now, but it's going to get worse. We go to the playground, and the only other kids around are toddlers and an occasional "preschooler" (who isn't in preschool). Right now, the age gap only bothers her a little, but I know it's going to get frustrating for her by the time she's 8 or 9.

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#62 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 02:35 PM
 
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And the traffic thing, I got stuck in the most ridiculous jam the other day. Parents were literally blocking the road b/c there was nowhere to park, lineups to get down the street...OMG how do people do this five days a week???
I always walked ds1 to school when he was little, and whenever we got to the school, and saw the lineup of cars, I was so glad we did it that way, even aside from knowing he was forming good habits (the idea that one can get around on one's feet).

We have an elementary school across the street, and I can barely get out of my driveway around 3:00. It's a zoo...and there are so many people lined up on the sides of the street, because they get here early - just sitting in their cars and waiting for the bell. It's kind of creepy.

Mind you, I often felt that way during the rush hour stampede at the Sea Bus (commuter ferry, for those not familiar with Vancouver) station.

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#63 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 02:40 PM
 
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Nothing personal to the pp who said this... but I find it a little amusing on an unschooling thread. I used to say it when my oldest were little too, but then I think it is just one more of those things that goes to show how ingrained the 'school' system is in our society, that because they haven't reached a certain age or we aren't doing formal lessons or whatever that we aren't teaching/they aren't learning.
We aren't exactly unschooling, but I do like the philosophy, so I haunt the forum. DD is only "in" kindergarten, so I figure our learning philosophy is a work in progress, just like everything else.

However, I do refer to this year as her first year of "official homelearning" or "official homeschooling". She's been learning from us since birth, and people just don't seem to see that in this culture.

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#64 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 02:44 PM
 
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re: daycare.

I didn't have to use daycare with ds1, as I had family available. However, I am putting ds2 in preschool in September. He'll be going three half-days per week. I'm going to miss him, but I need to get some structure in his life, and I need to be able to focus on dd. DS2 is just too high needs for me to work with most of the time. It seems a bit strange, as he'll be "officially homelearning" the next year (kindergarten), as well. But, that's what works for us for the coming year.

OTOH...I truly cannot imagine going on vacation and leaving my kids in daycare...just can't imagine it...

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#65 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 02:47 PM
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My five year old nephew asked to go to the bathroom and was told no, the justification? He should have gone earlier when it was "bathroom time"......
My ex-H was refused bathroom time once in high school, and he got up and walked out. Can you believe they actually called his dad at work and made him come to the school for a "conference" with the principal?

Ex-FIL was so incredibly pissed; first, because his son was told he couldn't use a bathroom, and second, that they bothered him at work for something so stupid. He's a hot-headed redneck, and gave the principal a piece of his mind.
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#66 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 02:57 PM
 
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We aren't exactly unschooling, but I do like the philosophy, so I haunt the forum. DD is only "in" kindergarten, so I figure our learning philosophy is a work in progress, just like everything else.
May I butt in to make a suggestion for experimentation? Since you're already interested in the philosophy, and since she's still so young, you'd have nothing to lose by just going ahead and throwing caution to the wind - unschooling full time for a while. There would be no way for her to get behind in anything that couldn't be picked up in virtually no time later, and you'd have a chance to get a better feel for how natural learning can work. I recall a woman joking with us in one email group that she had been going through the decompression/deschooling process with her daughter who had previously been in school, and that she'd discovered why some of us were so insistent on doing that. She said that in the process of letting her daughter just be, she'd started to notice all sorts of things being learned in a natural way without her orchestration - so she could see that we had tricked her into learning what it's like to unschool! Again, she was joking, but she was absolutely sincere about what she'd noticed. - Lillian

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#67 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 03:01 PM
 
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The bathroom situation is what took us from eclectic/relaxed homeschoolers to unschoolers, in a round about way, lol. My ds was asking to use the bathroom during the day at home when we first pulled him from school. I kept telling him that he didn't need to ask to go to the bathroom but he just couldn't wrap his brain around that, we were "doing school" after all. I realized that to help him understand we needed to deschool for a while so we just started hanging out and having fun. It was so fantastic and he was learning, having fun, relaxed so we just decided to keep doing it this way.

Maybe I should make a t-shirt that says "Unschoolers pee when we feel like it."
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#68 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 03:03 PM
 
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LOL Lillian- I was posting my deschooling evolving into unschooling story at the same time!
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#69 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 03:51 PM
 
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Maybe I should make a t-shirt that says "Unschoolers pee when we feel like it."
Oh, please don't - there would be people saying unschoolers go around peeing in public whenever they feel like it... - Lillian

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#70 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 05:39 PM
 
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May I butt in to make a suggestion for experimentation? Since you're already interested in the philosophy, and since she's still so young, you'd have nothing to lose by just going ahead and throwing caution to the wind - unschooling full time for a while. There would be no way for her to get behind in anything that couldn't be picked up in virtually no time later, and you'd have a chance to get a better feel for how natural learning can work. I recall a woman joking with us in one email group that she had been going through the decompression/deschooling process with her daughter who had previously been in school, and that she'd discovered why some of us were so insistent on doing that. She said that in the process of letting her daughter just be, she'd started to notice all sorts of things being learned in a natural way without her orchestration - so she could see that we had tricked her into learning what it's like to unschool! Again, she was joking, but she was absolutely sincere about what she'd noticed. - Lillian

Honestly, this year has ended up being much more of an unschooling year than I'd originally planned, anyway. (I'm pregnant and anemic and ds2 is...nuts...just nuts.)

I'll probably read up on unschooling a little more this summer. It is hard to let go of the "she should be reading" type of thinking, I'll admit (esp. since dh and I both taught ourselves before starting kindergarten, and assumed that dd would, too, yk?). DH is also of a different philosophy than me, and I'm not going to attempt any approach without agreement from him.

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#71 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 05:57 PM
 
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My DS and DD are SO much healthier since we took them out. No colds, no flu, nothing in almost a year!! The schooled kids we know are ALWAYS sick.

The bus that drives by every morning and afternoon. Used to be my DS's bus. SO thankful and relieved he's not on it anymore.

When we were out running errands the other day, in the morning, there were kids everywhere. We thought "How cool, more homeschoolers!!!": Turns out, we forgot it's spring break here - LOL

Reminds me of that scene in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. There are no children anywhere, they've all been taken by the Child-Catcher. The king and queen hate children, so they've all been emprisoned beneath the castle. Hmmmmm.....sounds familiar

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#72 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 06:17 PM
 
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The bus that drives by every morning and afternoon. Used to be my DS's bus. SO thankful and relieved he's not on it anymore.
I've seen a couple of moms on here whose children have been put on the wrong bus, dropped off at the wrong place, etc...

I can totally see how that happened after witnessing a scene at a bus stop a couple of times. It was at a large trailer park and there was probably 50-75 kids standing in line. The first bus stopped and they started loading kids on until it filled up. Then the other kids have to wait for the next bus to pull up and they get on it. From what I could see there was no one recording who got on which bus, no assigned bus, or anything. Just a random, whoever got in line first situation.

I used to walk home when I could to avoid getting on the bus.

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#73 of 100 Old 04-07-2009, 11:56 PM
 
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My ex-H was refused bathroom time once in high school, and he got up and walked out. Can you believe they actually called his dad at work and made him come to the school for a "conference" with the principal?

Ex-FIL was so incredibly pissed; first, because his son was told he couldn't use a bathroom, and second, that they bothered him at work for something so stupid. He's a hot-headed redneck, and gave the principal a piece of his mind.
OMG, I would have been so mad too! I'll be they were so surprised to find a parent disagree and probally still thought they were in the right....

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Oh, please don't - there would be people saying unschoolers go around peeing in public whenever they feel like it... - Lillian

::

Um...well...ahem.....
all Im saying is, if the park isnt going to provide a bathroom, a tree will do and if my four year old screams that he has to go NOW or else and we are nowhere near a bathroom, well....... I mean, he isnt peeing on a sidewalk or anything, we try to get somewhere fairly out of sight and out of normal walking paths.......

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Honestly, this year has ended up being much more of an unschooling year than I'd originally planned, anyway. (I'm pregnant and anemic and ds2 is...nuts...just nuts.)

I'll probably read up on unschooling a little more this summer. It is hard to let go of the "she should be reading" type of thinking, I'll admit (esp. since dh and I both taught ourselves before starting kindergarten, and assumed that dd would, too, yk?). DH is also of a different philosophy than me, and I'm not going to attempt any approach without agreement from him.
I found we just evolved, and at first dh was against hs at all, so he has NEVER heard the term "unschooling". He's heard all about "selflearning" and "child led" learning and all that.... and I am quick to point out, like when the two year old is poing to pictures in books and daddy is asking "wheres the duck?" then when he points, "OH good job" that he is teaching right then and there or when dd or ds asks a question and he is explaining whatever it is, why the car needs a battery or where lighting comes from for instance. He now is more aware of how much learning is in fact going on when we are "doing nothing"!

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My DS and DD are SO much healthier since we took them out. No colds, no flu, nothing in almost a year!! The schooled kids we know are ALWAYS sick.

The bus that drives by every morning and afternoon. Used to be my DS's bus. SO thankful and relieved he's not on it anymore.

When we were out running errands the other day, in the morning, there were kids everywhere. We thought "How cool, more homeschoolers!!!": Turns out, we forgot it's spring break here - LOL

Reminds me of that scene in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. There are no children anywhere, they've all been taken by the Child-Catcher. The king and queen hate children, so they've all been emprisoned beneath the castle. Hmmmmm.....sounds familiar
Ha! You're right! I wonder if it was meant to portray that.... I actually kinda like the empty parks on some days...... we once spent an entire morning eating donuts on the slide and chasing squirels in the rain....

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I've seen a couple of moms on here whose children have been put on the wrong bus, dropped off at the wrong place, etc...

I can totally see how that happened after witnessing a scene at a bus stop a couple of times. It was at a large trailer park and there was probably 50-75 kids standing in line. The first bus stopped and they started loading kids on until it filled up. Then the other kids have to wait for the next bus to pull up and they get on it. From what I could see there was no one recording who got on which bus, no assigned bus, or anything. Just a random, whoever got in line first situation.

I used to walk home when I could to avoid getting on the bus.
So scary! Ever see a little kid all alone at the bus stop? I mean, I wont let my five year old go from our door to the barn alone.....I remember having to tell my brother which bus to get on each morning, he was so confused and scared but wouldnt admit it

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#74 of 100 Old 04-08-2009, 02:35 PM
 
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at first dh was against hs at all, so he has NEVER heard the term "unschooling".
I seem to be in the minority on MDC in that. DH was actually the first one to suggest homeschooling, although I'd been thinking about it a lot. DS1 has thrived in public school in many ways (not like me!), but dd is a very different person, and we both think she'd run into a lot of difficulties. We'll see how things go. I'm fairly relaxed (maybe too much so?) about exactly how we'll go about this.

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#75 of 100 Old 04-08-2009, 04:40 PM
 
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Oh, the bathroom thing! I was absolutely livid when dd told me she had to tell the teacher WHY she wanted to go to the bathroom, IN FRONT OF THE CLASS no less - she had to change her pad!! That was one of the beginning of the end of school episodes for us.

I had to take my 17 yo ds to school yesterday and register him for grade 12 - he moved home after attending in another city (long story). Anyway, he had to sign a bunch of forms telling him how he's allowed to act, what types of clothing are appropriate, what types of body piercings he's allowed to have (!), what is considered appropriate to have on your T-shirt, etc etc etc. It's a good thing it wasn't me that had to sign - I would have told them what they could do with all their rules and regulations! And it's a darned good thing my daughter isn't going to school - she'd have to drastically change the way she dresses.

Afterwards I was thinking what a shame it is that so many people consider this repression of our teens to be normal, and actually desirable. Not only do they agree to it at school, but many also enforce the same rules at home.
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#76 of 100 Old 04-08-2009, 04:46 PM
 
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Oh, the bathroom thing! I was absolutely livid when dd told me she had to tell the teacher WHY she wanted to go to the bathroom, IN FRONT OF THE CLASS no less - she had to change her pad!!
I guess you didn't take that incident to the administration, or you would have mentioned it - but I sure wish it had gone to the top and blown up on her. How crude and despicable. - Lillian
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#77 of 100 Old 04-08-2009, 04:53 PM
 
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Yeah, if I'd thought it would matter I would have. I heard about it after the fact by about 2 weeks. Similar incidents in the past I found always ended up in a 'he said she said' scenario with me being the only one who believed what my kid was saying happened. Other kids would suddenly develop amnesia about the incident.
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#78 of 100 Old 04-08-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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This happened to me in middle school when we had a sub. He wouldn't let me go to the bathroom and I knew my pad was overflowing... it was. I had to call home for a change of pants and sat by myself with an understanding friend outside for a looooonng time. Maybe that's why I'm not into school...

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#79 of 100 Old 04-08-2009, 08:31 PM
 
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That going back to school in September is "homecoming."

And society refers to schools as Alma Mater (nourishing mother).

Gross.
This seriously made me shudder! It made me think of like the Matrix pods where the children are grown and the big robots care for them.

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#80 of 100 Old 04-08-2009, 08:33 PM
 
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Afterwards I was thinking what a shame it is that so many people consider this repression of our teens to be normal, and actually desirable. Not only do they agree to it at school, but many also enforce the same rules at home.
YESSS!!! I really feel there is this acceptable ageism when it comes to teens. We automatically treat them like hoodlums.

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#81 of 100 Old 04-09-2009, 03:06 AM
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It makes me feel like my dh and I are in on a big happy secret or we are getting away with something.....
The secret is that you don't have to volunteer to be a lab rat, or subject your kids to it. I feel that same way, and I wish it wasn't a secret! I feel sad for people who are ground down by that routine but don't think they can opt out.

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#82 of 100 Old 04-09-2009, 03:48 AM
 
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#83 of 100 Old 04-09-2009, 04:07 AM
 
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I guess you didn't take that incident to the administration, or you would have mentioned it - but I sure wish it had gone to the top and blown up on her. How crude and despicable. - Lillian

I remember having this happen to me in school. Seems pretty common. I wonder why? Surely they know teenage girls will have this issue and how humiliating it would be to have to announce it to everyone??

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#84 of 100 Old 04-09-2009, 03:11 PM
 
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You know, I wouldn't have had an "accident" with a pad or tampon, because I'd have just walked out if I hadn't had "permission" to use the bathroom. From my adult perspective, it seems very strange that I was labelled as having an "attitude problem" because of things like this. I don't want to have blood running down my legs and staining my jeans, and my teacher's on a power trip...but I had an "attitude problem"??

Mind you, I don't recall any of our teachers - or our policy - being quite that unfriendly to teens, but I do think the schools do things in a really screwy way where self-conscious teenagers are concerned. (One of my favourites was the way they discontinued show and tell in grade 1 or 2...then brought back oral reports, just as the boys were worrying about spontaneous erctions and the girls were sprouting breasts - obviously, the perfect time to start having them stand up in front of the class!)

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#85 of 100 Old 04-09-2009, 09:19 PM
 
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In reading many of these things I have an observation from the other side... as a former teacher I know why many of these decisions are made, what seems like a power trip is often just an effort to maintain order. Don't get me wrong some teachers ARE on a power trip, but not all. But this is the problem, even good teachers have the same ridiculous rules because they are necessary within the system that exists.

The sheer volume of kids coming through with time constraints in place to teach an expanding curriculum is nearly impossible. I don't think this excuses the behavior, it just stands as proof that schools themselves are the problem. Even the best teacher in the world would have a difficult time teaching in a classroom setting without some rules that are simply ridiculous on RL.

This is just further proof to me that schools don't work and home is the better option.
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#86 of 100 Old 04-09-2009, 09:47 PM
 
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I'm still new around the homeschooling forum... DD isn't really "school age" but I know we're going to be unschoolers (not radical though).. but I keep thinking about mine and DH's schooling experiences.

All my self esteem came from how well I did academically. I did everything I was supposed to and more academically. All my teachers loved me, but I never quite fit in amongst my classmates. I never could fit in with any particular group so I was just on the outskirts of everything usually. But, I had universally wonderful teachers. Even the ones other kids hated because they were more strict or tough, I was able to connect. I feel so appreciative of my public school education. But, I also am fully aware that I was in kindergarten 35 years ago and everything has changed! (My gosh do I feel really old writing that sentence!) Plus, when I realize how traumatic it was for me when I quit my PhD program (because I was miserable), I realize how much of my "self" was hung up on academic prowess, and I was clinically depressed and was digging myself into a hole I never would have crawled out of. I never want my daughter to have her whole sense of self so tied up in her academic performance.

DH is one of those extremely gifted people that never fit in at school. They never knew what to do with him. His parents handled it poorly (IMO) but DH and I had this realization the other night that his parents basically radically unschooled him beginning in 10th grade. Unfortunately, I think they approached it from a "we-have-no-idea-what-else-to-do" perspective than from a warm and supportive one.

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#87 of 100 Old 04-09-2009, 10:41 PM
 
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In reading many of these things I have an observation from the other side... as a former teacher I know why many of these decisions are made, what seems like a power trip is often just an effort to maintain order. Don't get me wrong some teachers ARE on a power trip, but not all. But this is the problem, even good teachers have the same ridiculous rules because they are necessary within the system that exists.

The sheer volume of kids coming through with time constraints in place to teach an expanding curriculum is nearly impossible. I don't think this excuses the behavior, it just stands as proof that schools themselves are the problem. Even the best teacher in the world would have a difficult time teaching in a classroom setting without some rules that are simply ridiculous on RL.

This is just further proof to me that schools don't work and home is the better option.
You know...I'm not trying to start an argument, but I can't think of any reason that justifies requiring a student to explain why they want to go to the bathroom...not one. The whole asking permission thing kind of creeps me out, too, especially at the high school level, but I can understand why that rule exists. I can't see any reason to ask someone why they want to go to the bathroom, especially in front of a whole class.

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#88 of 100 Old 04-09-2009, 11:43 PM
 
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You know...I'm not trying to start an argument, but I can't think of any reason that justifies requiring a student to explain why they want to go to the bathroom...not one. The whole asking permission thing kind of creeps me out, too, especially at the high school level, but I can understand why that rule exists. I can't see any reason to ask someone why they want to go to the bathroom, especially in front of a whole class.
Agree.

My cousin teaches junior high school and she had a girl who asked to go to the bathroom often. One day my cousin asked her, in front of the whole class, "What's wrong, do you have a bladder problem or something?" She was assuming it was a harmless joke, but the next day she gets a call from the girl's mother explaining that yes, there is an issue and to please allow her to go to the bathroom whenever she needs.
Some humble pie for the teacher.
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#89 of 100 Old 04-10-2009, 01:30 AM
 
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You know...I'm not trying to start an argument, but I can't think of any reason that justifies requiring a student to explain why they want to go to the bathroom...not one. The whole asking permission thing kind of creeps me out, too, especially at the high school level, but I can understand why that rule exists. I can't see any reason to ask someone why they want to go to the bathroom, especially in front of a whole class.
No, I don't perceive your comment as argumentative at all. I am not saying that it is right or that its okay... my point was that even the best teachers have been bogged down by the system itself. Some of them do a better job of working within that system but it is still a system that they must adhere to. You are absolutely correct that some teachers take the power too far (which I stated in my PP) those are the teachers who are asking why and making an already broken system even worse.

My original point, which I don't think I stated clearly, was that the act of asking permission at all to use the restroom is in and of itself strange, after all it is my body, why would I need permission from an outside source. Yet permission to leave the room, not just to excuse yourself, as you would in a meeting at an office for example, is deemed necessary within the system. Even the most well-intentioned teacher can't change that because they have a limited amount of time to convey the information that is required.

It's late and I'm still not sure if I made my point but I think it is a false assumption to blame teachers because it implies that the right teachers would fix the problem. I don't think schools can be fixed as they currently exist, no matter who the teacher is.
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#90 of 100 Old 04-12-2009, 11:15 PM
 
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i have always viewed life in this way-the view, i mean (i'm not posting about teachers or PP's about that...)...i am a sociologist at heart! i get very sad about how people are, though... so many 'rules' about etiquette and gender roles and what we wear, what words are 'bad' vs. 'ok'...etc. is just ridiculous to me... my latest saying is 'says WHO?!' and 'really......WHOSE life are we living anyway.................?!' 'whose rules are these???' it makes me sad and empowered at the same time................................so now how to live out my truth along these lines....................against the grain. not always easy to deal w/ people, ya know?! i love being different though...one of the unschooling pioneers, like AJP said in last post...i totally feel like this..................................scared and motivated at the same time...
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