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#31 of 42 Old 05-09-2009, 12:26 PM
 
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#32 of 42 Old 05-09-2009, 09:00 PM
 
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And it is doing them an injustice to go around banning everything that makes someone uncomfortable rather than working on finding ways to compromise.
I didn't hear that there was a long list of everything, but rather two things: weapons play and unsafe play that hurts little kids. Everyone feeling safe is a basic requirement - not a place to compromise.

If kids can't handle those two restrictions without feeling traumatized then it is time to reassess what is happening in their lives that they have so little respect for people around them.
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#33 of 42 Old 05-09-2009, 09:54 PM
 
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I didn't hear that there was a long list of everything, but rather two things: weapons play and unsafe play that hurts little kids. Everyone feeling safe is a basic requirement - not a place to compromise.

If kids can't handle those two restrictions without feeling traumatized then it is time to reassess what is happening in their lives that they have so little respect for people around them.
I didn't hear there was a long list of everything, either.
Though it brings to mind how one unschooler was kicked out of a group for letting her dd play with Barbies...

It sounds like the actual problem is simply that the children are receiving absolutely no guidance from their parents. Not addressing that problem and getting bogged down in listing what toys are banned would cloud the real issue and likely be a short lived solution. The compromise would be the parents parenting and the kids playing with their toys in an appropriate manner that kept others safe.

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#34 of 42 Old 11-29-2012, 08:29 PM
 
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I am on both sides. I see it, from my deepest sense of my heart. It is not cool to judge and take away moments of play from a beautiful 7-14 year old boy or girl having a thrill and knowing better; most of all having fun and meaning no harm - having the world and the essence of home education, that being to self-empowering, taken from them.

 

I do however have a 3 and 5 year old. I have noticed deep changes in them since playgroup has been humming along in gusto. Mostly that my 3 year old now says "I am going to kill you" and she has no idea, yet she does and I think it is some kind of play therapy some days - working out what she saw. I have just moved to a new rental and I am planning on having a playgroup in my home... please help me word this one! I am also thinking seriously of posting it to the outer world. I would love no screen time and also healthy food as much as possible. I feel like we are at a really special place in childhood that is more innocent from violence and my children need a few hours a week to cherish and be supported in that space with their friends. I am trying to get some honest to goodness words going in my head so I can communicate without hurting anyones feelings and still inviting others. I know so well that I wouldn't be splitting anything! I do think if it is aiming at being a more "Safe" place...well... I was kind of toying with the idea that the moms had to be present. Even knitting quietly, laughing softly at the play. I am not certain it should be like watching, but listening is a great word. Guidance is welcome in my heart for my children from a fellow mom. I would expect it would be okay for me to do this as well.

 

Violence to me is a hard one. They don't allow gun play at schools anymore. They don't allow bullying. I am not sure everyone here pro-guns see the stuff I have. It is quite hard for little ones to comprehend and some parents might be thinking it is "going over their heads" while they have tea or race cars, but it is not. I don't really care what it is teaching them, I just know that if 1 out of 40 kids suddenly starts the game at every group, some how my kid is wondering in the moment and I am awful about being "late." It is happening a lot lately and it is making so sad and sick inside because as a mother I have not had clearly enough build up time for it to be right. I mean 3 months and both kids. I swear - I have even wondered if it the location of our new rental causing the energy to come forth!   

 

The thing is, what can cooperative play teach them? And non-violent communication? And non-war games? I have heard so many stands for gun play (and experts are...Dr. Man? ) And I am sure their is soooo much that can spring forth from this really great game they have going on that involves violence - I know that is true! But I am also displeased that it *must* be the best way for a boy to learn the lesson or build the bond of friendship. I do wonder how you can limit that and why... I mean it is so hard to talk to others about it and goodness - then the children - it doesn't seem fair at all.


Leslie, organic semi-unschooling mama teaching my children 5 and 2.75, that love & happiness is most important. Letting their light shine, finding out they are teaching me. Love being in the moment & nature.

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#35 of 42 Old 11-30-2012, 04:07 AM
 
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Wow, I knew there were differing opinions on the weapon play things but didn't realise it caused so much issues in play groups.

 

I came from the side of no gun play until my son was turning anything and everything into a weapon.  Overtime I've read more, relaxed more and allowed weapons into the home, but they remain toy like and very simplistic e.g. wooden cutout guns, water guns (and we actually only have one of these), wooden swords etc.  My rule is no weapon that looks real will come into my home...but that is my personal preference rather than anything else, I don't really like cheap plastic toys which only have one function (which is mainly to break lol.gif)

 

I certainly agree with respecting a hosts wishes when visiting them.

And I agree children shouldn't be left unsupervised to harass and potentially hurt other children.

I also agree that the group shouldn't have to adhere to the most restrictive parent's wishes

 

I'd probably just end up meeting with people that were more similar to me, I tend to be unconfrontational and prefer to spend time with people that won't be upset by my parenting choices (or my children's playing choices).  I think people assume we all have to be similar minded just because we homeschool/unschool.

 

Anyway, as an aside I tend not to let my children take their weapons with them when we go out because I know some people have issues with it, but also because I find children that aren't allowed to play with them are the ones who tend to get a bit rough and out of hand with them.  My children know not to hit anyone with a sword, but my son has been hit hard enough to bruise several times by someone else's child who he was allowing to use his sword while they were playing.  So now I prefer to keep that for home play where I know everyone will be safe!

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#36 of 42 Old 12-07-2012, 06:56 PM
 
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The following statement is assuming that fighting games are being played out in a safe and respectful manor.

 

I think that if children playing fighting games make you uncomfortable that is it unfair for you to put your discomfort on children and expect them to change their behavior for you.  Of course if you are hosting a playdate you can request that children not engage in that kind of play in your home, but at someone else's home or a park it is not a reasonable to request this of others.  

 

My son is very into fighting games and it (still) makes me uncomfortable.  I actually tried to subdue that behavior for almost a year before I realized that I am the one with the issue and not him.  Now I can see the benefit of this type of play and I can be enthusiastic about him having a great time.  But it still makes me cringe.

 

I tried to stifle the fighting games because it made me uncomfortable, but ultimately all I was teaching him was that it is not OK to do things that make other people uncomfortable. And this is a value I do not want to teach; I think that by being who we are and sometimes (maybe often) making others uncomfortable we do the world a greater service than we would by just trying to please and comfort everyone around us all the time.


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#37 of 42 Old 12-09-2012, 03:29 PM
 
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Yes, but this subject is a hard one and it is even harder with young sweet kids around. I think it is the hardest play to understand for myself. We don't let them play rape, or prostitution, stealing is borderline - but we make sure they are sharing. It can be all so complicated. Especially if you homeschool and you believe that play is super important to life passions as they age. It would never be comfortable for me to be in the room when someone is getting killed, raped, or something sacred is stolen. I think it is hard on the heart to understand when to tell a young boy to stop playing "kill people" when his mom is not around and you don't even understand the respect or anything. I think it means that you watch the two play and dash and everyone is smiling. I understand where you are coming from though. Not sure I said this before, but in most schools kids are not allowed to play this way at all. No guns, no shooting games. I think joking and playing about something sacred is sad and I wouldn't be upset at a more sensitive mother, especially following a holy way at home - speaking up about her feelings. I do understand both sides though. I am sure I will be the mom to say - back off while we are here. I have thought about the fact that telling him that this play is wrong might be hurtful to his playful boy hood and then thought wait - killing is wrong and he knows that - he would totally get that it isn't the right time at a certain group.

Leslie, organic semi-unschooling mama teaching my children 5 and 2.75, that love & happiness is most important. Letting their light shine, finding out they are teaching me. Love being in the moment & nature.

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#38 of 42 Old 12-30-2012, 09:04 PM
 
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Comparing children playing fighting games to children playing rape, prostitution and stealing games is ridiculous.

 

If a child were playing rape or prostitution, it would mean that they were being exposed to those instances, as it is completely outside of the normal realm of what a child would experience.  If children were playing rape or prostitution it would indicate that they were being abused.  I'm actually offended that you would compare the two.

 

Have you ever pillow fought with your children?  Have you ever played "I'm gonna get you" games?  Because really those are a type of fighting game.  Do your children ever experience conflict with you or between themselves?  Do they ever see you in conflict with others?  Conflict is a part of life and many children process and act out conflict by playing fighting games.  Children experience emotion on such a physical level that it seems only natural to want to play out fighting games as a way of understanding power and control;  as a way of understanding domination and submission.  

 

Killing is a word.  It's a word with power, so kids attach to it and like to use it.  Fortunately in our culture very few children have a real concept of what it means and that is great.  The word would only hold more meaning to children if they have experienced/observed an act of killing.  

 

I want to be able to respect where you are coming from, but honestly, your comparison of fighting games to playing rape/prostitution just further cements my suspicians that parents that are absolutely against allowing their children to engage in consensual fighting games are judgemental on a level that makes them incompatable with  a consensual respectful lifestyle.


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#39 of 42 Old 12-30-2012, 10:18 PM
 
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Comparing children playing fighting games to children playing rape, prostitution and stealing games is ridiculous.

 

I don't think it's ridiculous. Pointing out that there are similarities (in that murder and rape are both morally reprehensible, for example) isn't saying "these are the same." It's a useful form of philosophical inquiry. You point look at the similarities and see that a case could be made that taking moral exception to one for of play should lead you to question the morality of the other. And you ask yourself "if they appear similar in this sense, are there reasons why we should treat them differently?" I think greenacresmama was doing exactly that: asking those philosophical questions aloud, questioning the validity of her own feelings on the topic. I don't think it aids the spirit of the discussion here to call her comparison ridiculous or to call her judgemental. She has said several times that she sees both sides and is confused and conflicted by the dilemma. I think you're mistaking a form of philosophical inquiry for something rather different. 

 

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#40 of 42 Old 12-31-2012, 03:52 PM
 
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My reaction was harsh and visceral, because the comparison of a child playing rape to a child playing fighting games may be a philosophical inquiry for someone, but to me it is a sick comparison and one I'm not comfortable with.

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#41 of 42 Old 01-01-2013, 05:17 PM
 
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Hi, I am sorry you were so upset. I read this and felt very distressed. I also wondered if you really even know what sense of play I speak of. If you talk of pillow fighting and tickling .. Then I don't think you do understand. I have a 5 year old as my oldest but I know many older kids. It seems the toys and shows targeted for the 8 year olds and olders are the ones I am talking about. Think about it this way better; Mitt Romeny took his grandchildren .. I think 11 and 13 to see "the hunger games" and if there had been a rape scene in that movie - it would have been rated R instead of pg-13.. Does that make more sense? It is somewhere before that at the age of 8-13 where the play seems to be enough to prepare "kids" for something that violent in our culture and I do feel that way because of video games I have seen kids play.. It all seems to domino into this play and I did jump ahead to that kind of play - older than pillow fights .. To set my question. If you had a lot of experience with older kids (that have parents that allow and support this mainstream kind of play) I think you would not have had such a hard time with my question. I totally get why you did though. This is way more about gun and play killing than your children are into. It is a very hard place to be in the group when you do see and hear play that you know is not coming from the child's heart but more from some sort of mainstream show or movie lines they just saw but was pushing the limits for even the child. I am very much pointing at the power and the ego that it builds up and I think that a mom and woman being uncomfortable with it is a huge sign it is not comparable with our hearts, as peacemakers and also as the real power of love in this new world conciseness of global respect. I think it is very much looking at our worn torn past to see and hear the ways of men and children having their play therapy. I do agree it is okay.. But I think the age group should be much higher. I am not sure why they think it is so fun though. I often wonder if they would invite Budda, Ghandi or Jesus Christ to pull up a chair and a pile of GI Joes? And would they give their children a toy gun at a birthday party? It is okay for me to allow some of the play in my home but I will never allow it to take over or get over 25% of the toys and also want a huge amount of childhood to be played cooperatively and kindly, curiously and creatively before it goes into a daily amount of destruction. Maybe 10.. And still have to make sure that society isn't dimming the light in my children. I have read so many quotes about the importance of play too. I do love rough housing and playing "cubs" with them.. But bare fist fighting in a duel at a older man age, or aikido seems to be such a more human way to "figure out the world" then to practice some sort of high powered weapon. But that is just me..

Leslie, organic semi-unschooling mama teaching my children 5 and 2.75, that love & happiness is most important. Letting their light shine, finding out they are teaching me. Love being in the moment & nature.

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#42 of 42 Old 01-08-2013, 06:37 PM
 
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Hi, I can see your point.  It's so hard to read it and digest it without paragraph breaks though!!  I don't have much experience with older kids playing fighting games, we've been pretty sheltered with the 8 and under crowd. 


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