13 year old might not be able to sail around the world - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090828/...s_young_sailor

I'm more of a relaxed home schooler, but this article caught my eye. I hope that boy is able to pursue his goals. What a shame that children don't have more rights in this world.
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#2 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 12:17 PM
 
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Actually, it's a girl
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#3 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 01:02 PM
 
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I think one of the problems is that we keep people 'children' (and as such, people without many rights) for too long.

I hope she's able to do this also. She's obviously very accomplished, some of the statements you read as you dig deeper into this story make it clear that she and her parents are being very responsible about the trip.

Homesteading, unschooling mama of three.
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#4 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Actually, it's a girl

oops. sorry about that.

That stinks for her. Especially since her parents both approve. I love "The teenage liberation handbook".
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#5 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 02:40 PM
 
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I can't imagine my 13 year old child taking off for two years to sail alone!

  BC Mum of three ('05, '07, '11 and #4 coming May '14!)    jumpers.gif  belly.gif 

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#6 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 02:47 PM
 
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Honestly, I can't see why it would be vitally important for anyone to sail around the world at 13. The ocean will still be there when she's older, sailing alone is very dangerous, and I don't think a 13 year old can be expected to fully understand the risks.

If she goes ahead with this, she could quite easily die in the attempt, and if she succeeds, some publicity-hungry 10 year-old (or the publicity-hungry parents of a 10 year old) will be next to try it.

ZM
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#7 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Honestly, I can't see why it would be vitally important for anyone to sail around the world at 13. The ocean will still be there when she's older, sailing alone is very dangerous, and I don't think a 13 year old can be expected to fully understand the risks.

If she goes ahead with this, she could quite easily die in the attempt, and if she succeeds, some publicity-hungry 10 year-old (or the publicity-hungry parents of a 10 year old) will be next to try it.

ZM

I think she wants to break a world record. I don't know, I think it's kind of cool. What elese got me was the concern about her "social development" during such and important time. I guess I feel like people are different. Not everyone needs to be around other people. Tehre are adults who don't mind solitude, why can't there be kids? I think if her parents are allowing it, it really is none of the governments business.
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#8 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 10:21 PM
 
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Seems a similar age as many "becoming an adult" rituals in various cultures. I suspect if she is that confident then she is that capable.

Mom to unschooling 4everboy since 8/01
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#9 of 88 Old 08-28-2009, 11:59 PM
 
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What are our responsibilities as parents?

For many people safety is the biggest concern (myself included).

I do not think a 13 year old is mature enough to fully understand the risks - I may be wrong, but can live with it if I am. I could not live with letting a 13 year old do something incrediably dangerous when a few more years of maturity and experience may make all the difference.

I agree we tend to infantise teens way longer than need be - but there are so many degrees between infantises and sailing around the world by themselves!

FWIW I have a 13 year old, and know many 13 year olds. I don't know of any 13 year olds who are mature enough in all the ways necessary to sail around the world.

I suppose it is possible that there are cultural differences between the Dutch culture and mine - but neurolgy and life experience are still issues that transcend culture.
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#10 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 12:07 AM
 
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I remember reading a book years ago, "The Boy Who Sailed Around The World Alone," and being totally amazed that a 16-year-old would be able to do something like that.

Sonja , 40, married to DH (42) since 5-29-93, DD born 11-3-2004, DS born 1-18-2007.
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#11 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 12:08 AM
 
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How is she going to provision herself during the trip? I think it is one thing if she is actually capable of financing, and completing the trip unassisted, but somehow I think she is going to need a lot of support and backing by other people. Who is going to be ferrying her supplies, or paying for her lodging in her various ports?
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#12 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 12:17 AM
 
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How is she going to provision herself during the trip? I think it is one thing if she is actually capable of financing, and completing the trip unassisted, but somehow I think she is going to need a lot of support and backing by other people. Who is going to be ferrying her supplies, or paying for her lodging in her various ports?
lodging? just dock fee is needed...she'd sleep on the boat ofcourse. I'm trying to imagine the size of her boat...but BFF's dad sails around the world all of the time, it's ALL HE DOES......and he only restocks his galley every month. He also keeps enough sea rations to make it for several months if he's feeling hermity. Even adults that do these trips have help funding and provisioning....like the UK boy that recently did it....he got corporate sponsers.

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#13 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 12:34 AM
 
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It definitely sounds like a wonderful experience for the child....

I can totally relate to the child in desiring not just that bit of independence but that confidence in knowing you can do something that many others don't think you are ready to handle.

Two years is a long time though and as parents that would be a time that I would really be worried. Actually if it meant that much to one of my kids I would allow them to do it, HOWEVER, I would trail behind jic anything should happen or she change her mind. One could be totally hands off but still be near enough to help should it ever be necessary.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I would love the adventure not only as a child would but also as a parent.

Nichole, wife to Kris SAHM to Timothy : :10-11-03, Hosanna , Seraphim 8-17-08 : caught by Grandma! Faith 1-4-10 : Caught by Daddy!
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#14 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 03:38 AM
 
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What are our responsibilities as parents?

For many people safety is the biggest concern (myself included).

I do not think a 13 year old is mature enough to fully understand the risks - I may be wrong, but can live with it if I am. I could not live with letting a 13 year old do something incrediably dangerous when a few more years of maturity and experience may make all the difference.

I agree we tend to infantise teens way longer than need be - but there are so many degrees between infantises and sailing around the world by themselves!

FWIW I have a 13 year old, and know many 13 year olds. I don't know of any 13 year olds who are mature enough in all the ways necessary to sail around the world.

I suppose it is possible that there are cultural differences between the Dutch culture and mine - but neurolgy and life experience are still issues that transcend culture.
:

For some reason these sorts of "youngest _____" world record contests bother me. I agree with the person who suggested that this would probably just encourage a 10 year-old to try it in a few years. Waiting a few years could indeed make all the difference in terms of safety and costs nothing except a bit of notoriety.
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#15 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 08:55 AM
 
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I've watched the interviews with the 17 y.o. who just completed his round-the-world sail. He dealt with terrifying storms and waves that threatened to capsize his boat, a broken rudder, torn sails, and a snapped mast while out to sea - and had to repair them himself until he could get to port. That's in addition to the immense loneliness.

I'd like know that the child and parents have adequately prepared to deal with these sorts of problems, and I'm sure the Dutch child authorities feel the same way.
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#16 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 10:38 AM
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David Farragut, the first admiral of the Navy, was nine years old when he entered the service and was 12 years old when he was given command of the USS Essex.

I think some kids have what it takes. And I think that this Dutch girl's main obstacle is not lack of skill or maturity, but too many adults who worry.
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#17 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 12:31 PM
 
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David Farragut, the first admiral of the Navy, was nine years old when he entered the service and was 12 years old when he was given command of the USS Essex.

I think some kids have what it takes. And I think that this Dutch girl's main obstacle is not lack of skill or maturity, but too many adults who worry.
It is possible that a very, very small number of 13 years olds have the skills and maturity to sail solo around the world for 2 years. But who judges this and why risk it? There is nothing to be lost (except fame) by waiting a few years.

I do not think adults worrying about a young teen sailing solo for 2 years is inappropriate.

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#18 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 01:52 PM
 
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i keep wondering if part of what upsets people is that she is a girl at the beginning of puberty. i keep wondering if it was a boy if there would be less press over this? i can see both side how it would be dangerous and all of that but it also seems like an amazing adventure and i have never spoken to her just being told her age doesn't really tell me enough about her to judge this for myself. the fact that she plans to take much longer getting around the world than the other kids that did it recent suggests to me that she won't be as isolated because she will be spending more time at port more time seeing the places she passes through on her trip. she isn't planning to rush she is planning to take the trip slowly and part of that is to have good wheather so maybe that also plays into how dangerous it will be for her versus someone who wanted to go around the world in less time? also i imagined if she was going to be visiting different cities her parents would probably be visiting her at times.

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#19 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 02:13 PM
 
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David Farragut, the first admiral of the Navy, was nine years old when he entered the service and was 12 years old when he was given command of the USS Essex.

I think some kids have what it takes. And I think that this Dutch girl's main obstacle is not lack of skill or maturity, but too many adults who worry.
I am not familiar with this person, who appears to have been an impressive individual from a young age, with an equally impressive career. I wonder though, did he sail solo? Or with a large, skilled crew at hand? LOL - it is different sailing without a crew and there are many problems that can happen unexpectedly.

I also recall learning that in the 1600's? 1700's? the average age for entering the British Navy was 10 y.o. These days there's a fairly common attitude that parents who let their 10 y.o walk to school alone are negligent (not that I agree with that attitude btw). Different times - different standards.
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#20 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 02:21 PM
 
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some of us have different spiritual views of "danger" or the lack there of. To me, it is not valid whether the rest of the world chooses to fear because I choose another path.

this is a cool story. thx 4 posting.
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#21 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 02:25 PM
 
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David Farragut, the first admiral of the Navy, was nine years old when he entered the service and was 12 years old when he was given command of the USS Essex.

I think some kids have what it takes. And I think that this Dutch girl's main obstacle is not lack of skill or maturity, but too many adults who worry.
Are you saying that it's not a dangerous thing to attempt, or that 13 year olds should be allowed to risk their lives without adult interference?
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#22 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 02:35 PM
 
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If the record is currently held by a 17yo, and she is planning on taking 2 years to complete the journey, can't she wait until she is 15? I think many people who are afraid for her, would feel more secure if she waits until she has the strength, experience, and maturity of those 2 more years.
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#23 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 02:51 PM
 
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Of course it's risky, and any number of terrible things could happen to her. Of course, it is possible for her to wait or never go at all or stay home and crochet doilies like a good little girl.
But she has decided to do this, and her father is behind her. I don't think that it's anyone else's business what they decide.

Quote:
"This case is about whether the government ... can restrict the broad freedom parents have in bringing up and caring for their children," said presiding judge M. Oostendorp.
I think this is the crux of the issue here. Whose business is it to decide what a family can do?
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#24 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 03:47 PM
 
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I think this is the crux of the issue here. Whose business is it to decide what a family can do?
What if she wanted to be the girlfriend of a 40 year old celebrity, and her Dad was ok with it?

Should the government ever interfere if a child is doing something known to be dangerous/harmful with the approval of a parent?

It's hard to know who may be influencing her and how. Once she has acquired sponsors, it may be difficult for her to stop, even if she realizes it was a mistake. I think having extra eyes looking at the situation and making sure that a quest for fame isn't likely to cost this girl her life isn't a bad thing.
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#25 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 09:09 PM
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Are you saying that it's not a dangerous thing to attempt, or that 13 year olds should be allowed to risk their lives without adult interference?
Neither.

Of course it's dangerous. So is riding in a car, yet many do it every day. I'll bet the percentage of motor vehicle fatalities exceed the percentage of sailing fatalities, worldwide.

The question is whether the state should trump the parents, in this case.
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#26 of 88 Old 08-29-2009, 11:35 PM
 
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Neither.

Of course it's dangerous. So is riding in a car, yet many do it every day. I'll bet the percentage of motor vehicle fatalities exceed the percentage of sailing fatalities, worldwide.

The question is whether the state should trump the parents, in this case.
I'm absolutely certain that sailing around the world alone is substantially more dangerous than running errands in a car in an average US city.

That aside, if there weren't the whole publicity/world record aspect to this I would agree with you. But given the impact the publicity might be having on the girl and her family, and the impact her trying will have on other families that will hear about it and think that maybe their child could beat this or another "youngest person ever to do __ dangerous thing" record, I hope she isn't allowed to do it.

I think she can find something else cool to do.
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#27 of 88 Old 08-30-2009, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Of course it's risky, and any number of terrible things could happen to her. Of course, it is possible for her to wait or never go at all or stay home and crochet doilies like a good little girl.
But she has decided to do this, and her father is behind her. I don't think that it's anyone else's business what they decide.



I think this is the crux of the issue here. Whose business is it to decide what a family can do
?
I 100% agree with this. She obviously has what it takes. Lots of adults do things "only for fame". What's wrong with a 13 year old doing so? Imagine the experienecs she'll have!! I think it sounds awesome. And extremely educational. You know, maybe (and thats a big maybe) if they had stuck with "we are worried for her physical safety" instead of throwing in things about her "social needs" I might agree with the authorites position more.
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#28 of 88 Old 08-30-2009, 10:56 AM
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I'm absolutely certain that sailing around the world alone is substantially more dangerous than running errands in a car in an average US city.
Only because running errands in a car is commonplace, does it seem that way. 26,000 people died in car crashes in the United States in 2007.

All it takes is one moron to be texting instead of watching the road as they fly up behind you.

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But given the impact the publicity might be having on the girl and her family, and the impact her trying will have on other families that will hear about it and think that maybe their child could beat this or another "youngest person ever to do __ dangerous thing" record, I hope she isn't allowed to do it.
So now we're supposed to corral our families because of what other people might do? I find that notion ludicrous. The kid down the street wishes he was homeschooled. Maybe I should put my kids in public school so he'll stop have these crazy ideas.
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#29 of 88 Old 08-30-2009, 11:04 AM
 
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I'm absolutely certain that sailing around the world alone is substantially more dangerous than running errands in a car in an average US city.
I agree. The risk of dying in a car accident with typical car use over a 2 year period has got to be less than the risk of dying on a solo trip around the world attempt for that same 2 year period. As a parent, I'm very much for kids being treated better and given more adult freedoms. However, I'm responsible for getting them to 18 in one piece. I would not allow a child of mine on this trip even if I thought s/he could do it as well as s/he could do it at 18. At 13 I think it's my responsibility to veto dangerous stunts.

Amelia Earhart ... Jessica Dubroff (who was unschooled)
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#30 of 88 Old 08-30-2009, 11:20 AM
 
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I'm Dutch and the dutch have this thing of always being better/stranger more special than the next person. This is all within a set of weird unwritten rules and if you go outside of these weird rules than you are just a weirdo. this is what makes me think she (or maybe its really the parents wanting t?) is doing it for the rong reasons

After everything I have read in the papers and what's been on telly I really wonder how well they have thought about this and how well prepared she is.
She has allready said that if she doesn't get permission to go she will go to New Zealand (she has dual nationaity) and become a homeschooler and do it anyway.
pretty stupid thing to say on telly if you ask me because if the judges decide she is not up for it this sort of statement if bound to ensure that the parents don't get custody returned to them.
ANw hy didn't she register as a hs'er to beginwith? no need for anyones permission that way....
if the trip around the world is what she wants it can be done in a far safer way than a 2 year solo trip. if the world record is what they want is it really worth risking your life over it?

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