Maybe it's my unschooling metallity that I just don't get this UPDATE in 67 He called - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 03:29 PM
 
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That's your opinion. And I too, as an adult, would not be too irked, or I could accept their POV, it's their restaurant.

But we are talking about kids, who are learning to roll with things like this. And the first part of being able to move on from such an upset, is being heard.
??? Of course it is my opinion, I was the one who posted it.

Being heard doesn't require the parent to work themselves up to a state of anger to the point where they are having to post vents online. That's something totally different than being heard.
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#62 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 03:33 PM
 
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[QUOTE=midnightwriter;15423765]Those of us with sensitive children know that it is not an either or situation. It is not like we just "let" them cry for 15 min instead of talking to them.

I'd say all of the same things to my DD, and we can talk about compromises and what not, but this doesn't mean that she would not cry. There's nothing wrong with crying when one is upset. It is an expression of one's emotions. And since when 15 min of crying ruins the rest of the day? [QUOTE]

I believe the poster said the requirement that she wear the helment "sucked the joy" from the day.

I have a deeply sensitive child and it is based on that experience that I am posting. Some kids need help being more flexible, seeing other points of view, finding compromises, and in learning when it is time to move on and still find a way to make a situation work.
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#63 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 03:49 PM
 
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No it's not. It's like you are attending cooking class and got used to hanging out painting with pudding after class in the public pudding painting area and your teacher approached you and said if you were going to do that rather than practice beating egg-whites you were going to have to wear the little-kid-who-can't-be-trusted-yet apron instead of the regular apron everyone else, cookery class patrons and general pudding-painting public alike, were wearing. As an adult that would irritate me pretty severely. As a kid it would have made me cry.
The teacher did not call the girls babies. He didn't insult them. He said that the activity required helmets from this point forward. If the cooking class teacher wants to say plastic aprons are required for pudding painters that would be fine with me too. Seriously, life has to be rough if you go around "seriously irritated" about every time something gets changed or doesn't go your way.
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#64 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 03:51 PM
 
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Today I had to have a very difficult conversation with one of my employees wherein I had to try to explain to her that customers (ie. our authority figures) are not always logical and fair. I really wish her parents had had this discussion with her when she was 7 and that she had a lifetime of practice to get used to this idea.
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#65 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 04:12 PM
 
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Today I had to have a very difficult conversation with one of my employees wherein I had to try to explain to her that customers (ie. our authority figures) are not always logical and fair. I really wish her parents had had this discussion with her when she was 7 and that she had a lifetime of practice to get used to this idea.
Was your employee was having a problem with a customer while she was off duty from work?

And it seems to me that the OP's dd is the customer.

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#66 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 05:08 PM
 
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The teacher did not call the girls babies. He didn't insult them. He said that the activity required helmets from this point forward. If the cooking class teacher wants to say plastic aprons are required for pudding painters that would be fine with me too. Seriously, life has to be rough if you go around "seriously irritated" about every time something gets changed or doesn't go your way.
No, he told them during PUBLIC skate time, not class time, that unless they were going to practice their skating in a way HE approved of they would have to wear safety equipment which the OP has stated is reserved only for the youngest and newest children in the beginner class, which these children are no longer even in. Safety equipment he then ADMITTED to the OP is totally unnecessary but that he threatened them with in order to try to manipulate them into practising skating in a way he approves of.

If everyone on the ice was wearing a helmet then yes, your plastic aprons for pudding painters analogy would work.
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#67 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The teacher called my house and explained that no toys would be allowed on the ice as per the office. I am FINE with that. He said he thought telling the girls in the way he did would make that want to be serious skaters but he meant it in fun way.
I told him I was fine with no toys on the ice but it would have easier if he just said that to them and sated it was from the office b/c that is much easier to explain that some odd rule.
He did apologize and it was sincere saying, "I did go about it the wrong way"

I reiterated that we are only there for fun ad he said he actually really likes teaching our kids b/c of the no pressure and he left teaching kids headed to higher ground (nationals and such)b/c he didn't enjoy it
So we are back at a common ground. At the end of the lessons I have paid for I will reevaluate my daughters wants in continuing to skate with him or switch to another teacher.
BTW, most of the people who just can't seem understand my issue have really turned into this way more of an event than it was.
Talk about being inflexible.

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#68 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 05:34 PM
 
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The teacher called my house and explained that no toys would be allowed on the ice as per the office. I am FINE with that. He said he thought telling the girls in the way he did would make that want to be serious skaters but he meant it in fun way.
I told him I was fine with no toys on the ice but it would have easier if he just said that to them and sated it was from the office b/c that is much easier to explain that some odd rule.
He did apologize and it was sincere saying, "I did go about it the wrong way"

I reiterated that we are only there for fun ad he said he actually really likes teaching our kids b/c of the no pressure and he left teaching kids headed to higher ground (nationals and such)b/c he didn't enjoy it
So we are back at a common ground. At the end of the lessons I have paid for I will reevaluate my daughters wants in continuing to skate with him or switch to another teacher.
BTW, most of the people who just can't seem understand my issue have really turned into this way more of an event than it was.
Talk about being inflexible.
awesome update! I'm glad you had a good conversation with the coach.

My kids are 8, 5 and 2!
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#69 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 05:47 PM
 
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I'm impressed with the coach for calling. Glad it worked out.
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#70 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm impressed with the coach for calling. Glad it worked out.
Me too.

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#71 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 05:54 PM
 
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It is good he called. It sounds like there was just a misunderstanding and being really angry was perhaps an overreaction, no?
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#72 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It is good he called. It sounds like there was just a misunderstanding and being really angry was perhaps an overreaction, no?
Roar I really think you can't hear me. I was not ever fighting with him. I was angry with the idea that kids sports have turned everything into competing that things can't just be fun. The only reason the helmet thing was angering me was b/c he was using it as manipulation so no there never was a misunderstanding. he as much admitted he was manipulating them but he felt his intentions were good.
I was angry when I posted yes. Yes And no I don't think I was wriong in feeling that way.
this thread went in the wrong direction b/c people wanted to tell me how I should have reacted. I NEVER once fought with that man. I asked him as someone who knows about skating if skating in tipped over position made it more unsafe and that was the the helmet rule. He said no.
As an adult i emailed him a very nice letter talking about what happend and my expectations of the class. He called me and we worked it out.
So yes I am able to move from angry to forgiving and moving on and even not lashing out and removing my daughter.
All handled in my opinion appropriately. Hopefully my daughter can still grow into a responsible adult somehow with me as her mother who allows her to cry .

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#73 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 07:42 PM
 
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Glad to hear the update, too!

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#74 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 07:50 PM
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Whew! I just read the whole thread. I'm glad everything worked out okay in the end.

I do think the teacher handled things poorly in the beginning, but you know that old saying about everything looking like a nail when your only tool is a hammer? It sounds like he spent many years coaching "serious" skaters and is having trouble figuring out how to use the rest of his toolbox. It's unfortunate that the OP's DD had to be one of his guinea pigs, though.

One thing that comes to mind, and this is directed at nobody in particular, is that (in unschooling circles) I frequently hear about meeting a child's needs. I think, sometimes, needs and wants get mixed up. I'm all about meeting my kids' needs, but they don't get everything they want. Nobody does.
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#75 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 10:09 PM
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OP so glad to hear that things worked out, and both you, your DD and the instructor all communicated well. Sounds like you handled it exactly how the situation called for and neither your DD nor your relationship with your instructor was harmed in any way, but rather both parties appreciated your actions and your instructor appreciated where you were coming from.

And kudos for your patience with this thread. I've been amazed at the tangent it went off on.

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#76 of 99 Old 05-19-2010, 11:37 PM
 
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n/m
I hope that your child has been spared a head injury or concussion, and that she continues to enjoy skating.
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#77 of 99 Old 05-20-2010, 01:00 AM
 
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I'm impressed with the coach for calling. Glad it worked out.
So am I! SCORE!!!!!

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#78 of 99 Old 05-20-2010, 04:15 AM
 
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The teacher called my house and explained that no toys would be allowed on the ice as per the office. I am FINE with that. He said he thought telling the girls in the way he did would make that want to be serious skaters but he meant it in fun way.
I told him I was fine with no toys on the ice but it would have easier if he just said that to them and sated it was from the office b/c that is much easier to explain that some odd rule.
He did apologize and it was sincere saying, "I did go about it the wrong way"

I reiterated that we are only there for fun ad he said he actually really likes teaching our kids b/c of the no pressure and he left teaching kids headed to higher ground (nationals and such)b/c he didn't enjoy it
So we are back at a common ground.
I'm so glad he called you. It sounds like he learned something and that he is not afraid to admit he did something wrong. Those are good qualities.

I wanted to clarify something I wrote earlier in the thread though because I really dislike the way I phrased it. I said that I'd probably just assume it was about safety and tell my child that and that sounds like I meant "oh I'd just think the best of the coach's intentions and tell my kid it was about safety whether it really was or not".

What I did mean is that it probably wouldn't even occur to me that it wasn't about safety but that's because I was basing this on my experiences with my son's activities which have thus far been pressure-free. His swim coach is strict about safety, but not manipulative. After the lessons, he is happy to see kids playing and enjoying being in the water. He sometimes gives a play break during the lesson too.

It was a moot point anyway since you had asked him and he said it wasn't a safety issue, but since people kept bringing up safety I wanted to say to those PPs, as someone who completely agreed with you, that it would have been my first thought too. I guess I just wanted to say, Well just because we're unschoolers doesn't mean we don't think about safety! (and to add that you had already said that wasn't the issue)
But I think it might have come across as another post telling you what you should have done.

This pressure on kids does concern me as I seek out opportunities for activities that my son is asking for. It's one reason that we plan to try a soccer class (which the website emphasizes is to learn and have fun) rather than the local team.

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Today I had to have a very difficult conversation with one of my employees wherein I had to try to explain to her that customers (ie. our authority figures) are not always logical and fair. I really wish her parents had had this discussion with her when she was 7 and that she had a lifetime of practice to get used to this idea.
Are you saying that this employee grew up being heard, validated, trusted, respected and not only accepted, but celebrated, for who she is and this is the result? Did you know her when she was 7 and know what kind of discussions she had with her parents? I mean I could say the same thing, that I wish when she was 7 she had been validated and comforted when someone wasn't logical or fair so she would know she had options and could choose how she wanted to deal with people like that in a way that was in line with both her principles and her own objectives (such as keeping her job or helping someone even if they are unpleasant).
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#79 of 99 Old 05-20-2010, 11:55 AM
 
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The teacher called my house and explained that no toys would be allowed on the ice as per the office. I am FINE with that. He said he thought telling the girls in the way he did would make that want to be serious skaters but he meant it in fun way.
I told him I was fine with no toys on the ice but it would have easier if he just said that to them and sated it was from the office b/c that is much easier to explain that some odd rule.
He did apologize and it was sincere saying, "I did go about it the wrong way"

I reiterated that we are only there for fun ad he said he actually really likes teaching our kids b/c of the no pressure and he left teaching kids headed to higher ground (nationals and such)b/c he didn't enjoy it
So we are back at a common ground. At the end of the lessons I have paid for I will reevaluate my daughters wants in continuing to skate with him or switch to another teacher.
BTW, most of the people who just can't seem understand my issue have really turned into this way more of an event than it was.
Talk about being inflexible.
Glad there was a sensible reason.
Guess the dolls can do their skating on tables on the side lines and then watch the girls skate?
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#80 of 99 Old 05-20-2010, 12:06 PM
 
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Oh, no, wait, there still isn't a sensible reason for them having to wear helmets to play with the dolls. Cause that wasn't the policy change. The policy change was to "no toys" not to "wear helmets when playing with toys".

meh, the new policy is fine, but proves you were right to be irritated at how the teacher handled things in the first place.
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#81 of 99 Old 05-20-2010, 12:12 PM
 
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Whew! I just read the whole thread. I'm glad everything worked out okay in the end.

I do think the teacher handled things poorly in the beginning, but you know that old saying about everything looking like a nail when your only tool is a hammer? It sounds like he spent many years coaching "serious" skaters and is having trouble figuring out how to use the rest of his toolbox. It's unfortunate that the OP's DD had to be one of his guinea pigs, though.

One thing that comes to mind, and this is directed at nobody in particular, is that (in unschooling circles) I frequently hear about meeting a child's needs. I think, sometimes, needs and wants get mixed up. I'm all about meeting my kids' needs, but they don't get everything they want. Nobody does.
I think it's more of GD issue than an unschooling one but that's not really relevant to the conversation. I agree that often when parents talk about meeting kids needs they get wants mixed up in the equation. But I also think that when you're 7 your emotional needs are so intertwined with your wants that it can be difficult to differentiate. I think that the OP met her child's emotional needs by acknowledging her disappointment and comforting her without giving her what she wanted, which was time to skate with her doll.

I grew up with my parents telling me I couldn't have everything I wanted and that was just life with little regard to the disappointment I felt about such things. This did NOT make it easier for me to accept the things I couldn't have, it made me pine for them more. If someone had held me and allowed me to feel disappointed for 15 minutes then I still would have known that I can't always get what I want but I also would have felt loved and comforted instead of deprived and misunderstood.

And btw- OP, I'm glad he called and that you feel better about the situation.
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#82 of 99 Old 05-20-2010, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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you see Sapphire the office didn't want the toys on the ice. So it was a little passive aggressive instead of just coming to us the parents and saying, "They can't do that" which I think happed initially b/c the first few times everyone was having such fun that they forgot, "Oh wait they can't do that"
They were trying to get them to stop without actually saying something. Which doesn't work.
I think they were also letting it slide so to speak until another little girl wanted to bring her doll and her mother did not want any part of that. (The teacher di tell me this on the phone) She is being trained to be a serious skater so I guess the dolls were taking away her focus.
So it wasn't a new rule per say but it was not enforced and so we didn't know.

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#83 of 99 Old 05-20-2010, 01:01 PM
 
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you see Sapphire the office didn't want the toys on the ice. So it was a little passive aggressive instead of just coming to us the parents and saying, "They can't do that" which I think happed initially b/c the first few times everyone was having such fun that they forgot, "Oh wait they can't do that"
They were trying to get them to stop without actually saying something. Which doesn't work.
I think they were also letting it slide so to speak until another little girl wanted to bring her doll and her mother did not want any part of that. (The teacher di tell me this on the phone) She is being trained to be a serious skater so I guess the dolls were taking away her focus.
So it wasn't a new rule per say but it was not enforced and so we didn't know.
They had the rule all along, and didn't think it was worth enforcing? You know what type of rule doesn't get enforced? A stupid rule.

Eh, at least your dd is okay with things and it isn't the end of the world not to go on the ice with the dolls. it's just making.
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#84 of 99 Old 05-21-2010, 12:21 PM
 
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I was wondering throughout this thread why toys would be allowed on an ice rink during open skate. Seem like something that could get out of hand really fast.

Seems like the rules were not enforced well which led to further misunderstanding. Glad it was all worked out.

FWIW I have a ds who enjoyed gymnastics until every single place we tried to get him lessons wanted him on the "team". He just wanted to have fun. There is no place to take recreational gymnatics classes once you're past a certain age/skill level it seems. It's all about the teams/meets.
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#85 of 99 Old 05-21-2010, 02:21 PM
 
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I just finished reading this entire thread and I have the same question that the OP has. Why is it that every activity that children partake in these days has to lead to a "serious" pursuit?
I have a 17yr old son who enjoys soccer and baseball but because he just wants to play for fun(not for college/scholarship money), since he turned 10, it is impossible to find folks to play with. Same thing about almost all of his passions-He is always asked where, when or how he thinks those interests are going to further his career/employment opportunities in the future! Sheesh!
Hipumpkins, I want to applaud you for standing up for your daughter and asking the questions of her coach that help you to get to the bottom of the issue.
I also am glad that you let your girl cry because it was her way of letting out her disappointment about the situation and I feel that it was completely appropriate for her to do so in that way. Thanks for being one more mother who is growing the whole child!♥
And speaking as a long time unschooling mom, I will say that I find that the minute you mention that you are having a problem with a teacher/coach/instructor online and you are known to be unschooling, there are all kinds of judgements made about how your kids handle schooled situations because they are unschooled. The biases can be pretty startling!
Just know that plenty of people who make comments in unschooling forums are not unschoolers and they come here hoping to be the voice of reason when offering advice.
Thanks again for sharing your story here, I think that will help others in similar situations.

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#86 of 99 Old 05-21-2010, 03:15 PM
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Indeed. My child would love to dance, but does not want to have to dance a certain way, yet would enjoy going somewhere specfically for that.

Our city has one fabulous option that could possibly be replicated in others. One of our gymnastics centres hosts a weekly homeschoolers drop-in. We pay an annual insurance fee of $11 per child, and sign a waiver. Then we pay a drop-in fee of $6 per kid, siblings are cheaper, and we have access t all the equipment for the hour. There is one staff member in the gym to help us, remind kids of certain safety rules and just be our person to ask about equipment and such. But otherwise we are free, whether a child wants to just sit in the foam pit and throw foam blocks, or practice their balancing beam, or just jump, jump, jump on the tramp. It's great, with teens to toddlers all mixed together. No other gym in our area would ever consider such unstructured fun. I've yet to find it in any other sport.

We did convince our skating rink to offer a homeschoolers drop-in hour weekly, because their facility is pretty empty during the day. The rule is your parent must be on the ice with you, and helmets are a must. We block off half the rink for hockey and the rest is for whatever you'd like.


We have left so many activities when they try to teach us and enforce grades and levels, when we did not request or seek this, we just want access to dabble.

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#87 of 99 Old 05-21-2010, 04:26 PM
 
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Wow, I totally get why you were upset (arbitrary and manipulative rule) and am glad it worked out and the coach was honest enough to admit his mistake.

Surprised and disappointed in some of the less than gentle responses directed your way.

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#88 of 99 Old 05-21-2010, 05:31 PM
 
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I just finished reading this entire thread and I have the same question that the OP has. Why is it that every activity that children partake in these days has to lead to a "serious" pursuit?
I have a 17yr old son who enjoys soccer and baseball but because he just wants to play for fun(not for college/scholarship money), since he turned 10, it is impossible to find folks to play with. Same thing about almost all of his passions-He is always asked where, when or how he thinks those interests are going to further his career/employment opportunities in the future! Sheesh!:
Wow. Where I live, 99.99% of sports teams for children are "serious" in that they keep score, have rankings, play according to rules, etc, but are completely for children who just want to have fun playing a sport but don't have the potential or inclination to pursue sports either for a scholarship or a career. This is more true for younger kids, but even older teens (and even adults) can play in rec leagues which are competitive, but don't have a min skills requirement. There are elite teams, but they are invite/tryout only are very very serious. Kids are only pressured to join the elite teams if they are extremely skilled.

I wonder how much of this issue is about sports vs. play. To me playing sports is different than goofing off and having fun. Yes, it should be fun to play a sport, but that's not the primary purpose of it. To me if I just want to have fun doing something, I don't seek out an organized structured environment. I just go out and goof off. It is the difference between playing front lawn football, and going out for pop warner. IMO.
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#89 of 99 Old 05-21-2010, 10:55 PM
 
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This is why I'm going to encourage Lina towards soccer. Yeah, there are leagues and teams and so on, but all you actually NEED for soccer is a ball and some open space. Less equipment means more chances to play however you like playing.
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#90 of 99 Old 05-22-2010, 01:25 AM
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See but that's just it. Why can't you 'pla' at a sport? I played softball as a kid and liked it, so I joined an adult league through our local rec centre. But over the months our team became more and more competitive and actually would not accept the less-than-perfect-or-young players the next year. So only 'serious' folks could play, there were no other adult baseball league options.

So, I like to play sports for FUN, not to win, but to play with other people. And my kids do too.

For most of these oudoor pursuits (soccer, volleyball, baseball, street hockey) you need a good bunch of kids to make it even happen, which is why you end up seeking out a community group/rec centre etc . . but then the competitiveness gets started, and it's all about geting better, and less about having fun.

Don't misunderstand, there IS a place for improving skill. My kids both play league soccer and it is hugely frustrating for them when less-than-serious kids sign up, as it ends up distracting everyone from the skills they are there to learn. But that is why it's a pivate, costly academy, not the 'have fun' local scene where it'd be welcome to be a 'newbie'.

But there should be a place for both, and not one place, two separate options. At our kids pool, once you pass a certain level (5?) your only option to continue learning s to join the Lightening Fast Swim team. but my son doesn't want that, he just wants more practice on his regular swimming. so he opts not to go at all.

Passionate posts = oodles of typos
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