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#31 of 41 Old 09-26-2010, 08:37 PM
 
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I'm starting to ramble...but the gist is that the unschooled grads I've known have not put a lot of thought into fitting into the system so much as just following their own dreams, and that's been working out well. Lillian

YAY! I love to hear real life examples of this sort of thing. I talked to a fellow the other day who also had some great stories to share about his brother and a few friends who had some very self-shaped success experiences when I brought up that I unschool my kids. Don't we all want out children to choose what they love to do?
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#32 of 41 Old 09-26-2010, 08:42 PM
 
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I'm kind of getting the vibe here that in modern, urban society, in the absence of opportunity for hunting and weapon-making etc, video games are the natural fallback. I wonder if that is really the case. What would be/could be the alternative for these boys?
I don't know that video games is a "natural" fallback, but it is an available alternative. The boys I know who are into these video games ALSO are into real-life activities like weapon-making, or rock-climbing, skiing, archery, camping, hiking and other outdoor activities. But they don't LIVE these activities--it's not like they're in the woods 24-7, kwim? I think maybe they need much more of these activities than can be provided and video games fill in the rest.

Maybe, in a way, it's like the social networking and community that the internet offers--for people who don't have it irl, or don't have enough of it irl, it's an alternative.
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#33 of 41 Old 09-26-2010, 08:52 PM
 
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I don't know that video games is a "natural" fallback, but it is an available alternative. The boys I know who are into these video games ALSO are into real-life activities like weapon-making, or rock-climbing, skiing, archery, camping, hiking and other outdoor activities. But they don't LIVE these activities--it's not like they're in the woods 24-7, kwim? I think maybe they need much more of these activities than can be provided and video games fill in the rest.

Maybe, in a way, it's like the social networking and community that the internet offers--for people who don't have it irl, or don't have enough of it irl, it's an alternative.
I feel that's a really good explanation. I know my brother was really into gaming, but he also did a lot of other really cool stuff. But the other really cool stuff could only make up so much of his life, for a lot of reasons.
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#34 of 41 Old 09-26-2010, 11:36 PM
 
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I also like how SagMom put it. I think prior to video games these were kids who were free to roam and do "boy scout" type things, etc. Frankly today's children are so darned sheltered and so many of them rarely get out in nature, it's hard to be a "little warrior", kwim?

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#35 of 41 Old 09-26-2010, 11:51 PM
 
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Growing up my brother and I were both equally interested in playing pac-man at the mall and both equally given 50 cents to do so every week. We haven't faced the video game issue in the present generation of video game ubiquity (though perhaps we will later), so I am not going to comment (even though I have my views )

But I can relate to part of the issue the OP raised - I was always expected to attend family parties, plays, concerts, etc with my parents and my brother who refused to attend, was allowed to stay home. I didnt esp want to go either, as I recall, but somehow it was more expected of me and I went. I didn't stew or resent being there or anything - I would usually have a good time. But I just remember that the option of skipping did not seem as available to me.

I also wanted to thank SagMom for pointing out:

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Originally Posted by SagMom
As for moving out of their parents' homes in a timely fashion--a generation or two ago, it was common for several generations of a family to live together. There are many benefits to doing this so I'm not so sure that NOT doing it is a sign of success.
Living with parents does not equal adult child being "dependent" on parents. There is a lot of mutual support they can give one another and families that value this should not be disparaged. In many parts of the world it is still the norm.

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#36 of 41 Old 09-27-2010, 09:06 AM
 
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Living with parents does not equal adult child being "dependent" on parents. There is a lot of mutual support they can give one another and families that value this should not be disparaged. In many parts of the world it is still the norm.
YES! This! I think those people who worry about getting their kids out on their own without any support from them whatsoever just as soon as it makes sense to do so ought to think about another aspect of the small family unit with no room for anyone else... This day and age it is also completely normal to put the older generations away and out of sight in nursing homes or assisted living centers rather than for the younger generation to help out. I think the multi-generational families of yesterday are a beautiful thing... If they manage to hang on despite it looking lazy or whatever is being implied, then more power to them!

ETA: I think that multi-generational households offer an especially rich learning experience for everyone involved, especially the children. I think unschoolers really get this... That kids who learn how to interact with diverse age and interest groups have a decided advantage over children that only learn how to interact with their own peer-group in a controlled environment. Stuffing twenty-five 6 year olds in one room all day, five days a week? Socialization my eye! But that is a different tangent...
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#37 of 41 Old 09-27-2010, 08:46 PM
 
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Graduation from college no longer is the ticket to a solid career. Maybe it's not a bad thing that people are reconsidering college. For some careers, it's necessary, but certainly not for all. I'm not sure what constitutes a "decent" job--a high paycheck? A good benefits package? Security? None of those things is reliable. I'd rather see people enjoying their work, living within their means and having the ability to adapt when things change. As for moving out of their parents' homes in a timely fashion--a generation or two ago, it was common for several generations of a family to live together. There are many benefits to doing this so I'm not so sure that NOT doing it is a sign of success.

Yes, and these are the same women who are stressed out about trying to "have it all" by going to college, starting a family and having a career. (And this is the generation who found that it's sometimes a problem to do the career first and try to begin a family at 40. Maybe all that drive and motivation is not such a good thing.
I'd like my ds to have a well balanced life and be happy. I can't imagine minding if we continued to live together when he's an adult. Dh, ds, and I live with my mom as it is. It would be strange to all live in ones and twos separately...

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I don't know that video games is a "natural" fallback, but it is an available alternative. The boys I know who are into these video games ALSO are into real-life activities like weapon-making, or rock-climbing, skiing, archery, camping, hiking and other outdoor activities. But they don't LIVE these activities--it's not like they're in the woods 24-7, kwim? I think maybe they need much more of these activities than can be provided and video games fill in the rest.

Maybe, in a way, it's like the social networking and community that the internet offers--for people who don't have it irl, or don't have enough of it irl, it's an alternative.
That sounds exactly right. There aren't kids to play with out our door. Ds doesn't even have siblings. He doesn't have a bunch of relatives interested in doing things with him. He's happy to do real things when there are people with whom to do them. And I work pretty hard to give him those opportunities. But otherwise, he'll get his interaction from the computer, just like I do. And yes, we interact with each other but we're together 24/7 and enjoy the change of pace.

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#38 of 41 Old 09-28-2010, 01:53 AM
 
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a 9 yr old on facebook is violating federal law, as are her parents who facilitate her being there)
What federal law is that?
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#39 of 41 Old 09-28-2010, 10:58 PM
 
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What federal law is that?
I don't know if there is a federal law on the subject but it's Facebook's policy that they will collect no personal information from people under the age of 13. Therefore, it's against their user policy for anyone under 13 to have an account. I suspect they picked that age for some sort of legal reason having to do with privacy protection...

ETA: Here it is, the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act. Essentially, no site is allowed to collect information from kids under 13.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childre...Protection_Act

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#40 of 41 Old 09-30-2010, 10:26 PM
 
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just catching up here, and I may have missed it, but I didn't see this pointed out. this notion of a performance gap between the sexes, men less likely to (fill in), is based on observation of a generation, if I'm understanding right. this is *not* referring to *unschooled* adult males (who are as of now still a very small percentage of the population of kids today, even less of males who are now adults). it may very well be that allowing boys to game when they want to alleviates some need to reclaim lost years that were stolen from their childhood later on, when they finally become masters of their own time and activities, under the current system typically in the 20s and 30s depending on the individual. something to consider

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#41 of 41 Old 11-11-2010, 03:04 PM
 
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I have a couple of things to add on this topic...

 

 I read through the majority of the posts and it didn't seem to come up in discussion that video games are highly addictive. There have been a number of people in my family that have become addicted to video games and have missed out on important chunks of their children's lives, and their own lives (yes I'm talking about adults). My point is that even in a very relaxed unschooling home, I cannot allow full unlimited access to any type of addictive substance. Yes, children need to learn self-control, but you wouldn't give them another type of controversial addictive substance (like alcohol, cigarettes...) and expect them to just "learn" self control on their own at such a young age.

 

My husband and son (7.5 yrs) both love gaming, but DH set a "rule" of no screen time during the week apart from certain computer sites/games that we approve of (we are pretty loose on those and allow games like battleship, monopoly, etc. but limit simple mindless shooters, etc.). He still is limited in the time he spends on these games/sites because we feel that he needs to have outdoor time, time to read, etc.

 

 We are very relaxed unschoolers, but we see everyone in our home as equal (not the same, but equal) and so we all get computer time, relaxed reading/quiet time, etc. SO, our son is "free" to play games at times, BUT if someone else needs the computer for work/play or needs/wants quiet time, then he has to adjust his behaviour to suit all of our needs. If he impedes on the quiet time, he has to go outside. I definitely believe in "freedom, but not license".

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