How do I best help my son learn? - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 21 Old 03-20-2014, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
mrstovar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

I have always taken the attitude that I will let my son learn, as opposed to making him learn, and try to get whatever help he needs if he is behind in something. He is now 44 months old. In many ways just letting him learn (or at best, helping him learn when he interested) has worked out OK. He can count to 10 or more, he knows the alphabet and most of the sounds, he recognizes a few words, knows a lot of shapes and colors, etc. Writing is more behind but he's making a little progress there as well.

 

BUT...he is still in diapers, and shows no interest in learning to use the toilet. He can't dress himself and has little interest in trying, although he now will take a coat or some similar garment off and he's interested in how snaps work. And yesterday he had put his sandals on his arms and closed them correctly (he laughed as if it was hilarious). He still needs a lot of help with eating. He cannot, or at least will not, hold still and be quiet for more than 5-15 minutes depending on the day or who knows what. He can wash himself (with supervision) except for his head, face and neck.

 

Recently a couple of people have commented that my son is almost 4 and so will soon be going to kindergarten. He won't be, of course, I would not think of sending him to school until he's 8-10 years old; classes that he enjoys, maybe, but not school; however the comments alarmed me and made me reflect on how he is behind on basic personal skills that every child needs to know before starting school. I'm at a loss as to how best to help him. Any advice?

mrstovar is offline  
#2 of 21 Old 03-20-2014, 05:36 AM
 
mapleleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

The wonderful thing about homeschooling is your son doesn't have to measure up against other children, and quite honestly he doesn't sound that "behind".  My son, who will be eight soon, still likes to eat with his hands.... we remind him all the time to use his utensils but he prefers his fingers:-/  I think it is VERY common for young children, boys especially, to not be able to hold still or be quiet for 15 min.  While my husband reads novels before bed my son is often bouncing around, but when I ask the next day what is happening in their book he retains all kinds of information.  Some people need to move to think.

 

As for toilet training, that can be frustrating but not uncommon.  My son took longer to use the toilet than my daughters.  Have you tried cheerios in the toilet?  Apparently having something to aim for makes it fun!  Sometimes putting a lot of emphasis on the task makes it progress slower.  Maybe take a  break from toilet training and try again later?

mapleleaf is offline  
#3 of 21 Old 03-20-2014, 08:30 AM
 
ewink's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Your son doesn't sound that "behind" for his age to me! And like you and Mapleleaf said, he won't be going to Kindergarten. And honestly, I've known a few Kindergarten teachers personally, and from the stories they've told me about their daily life with the kids, a lot of them need a lot of help with simple personal care things. Kids learn different things at different ages.

My own DS (now 9) was truly unable to dress himself, he also had no interest in learning, by the time he was 4 years old. He also was unable to use the potty at 4. Under pressure from family and friends, I tried to teach him at different times, with different "incentives", but all it did was create a lot of frustration for both of us, and in reality probably delayed the natural process. It was obvious that he really wanted to go on the potty, wanted to please me, but he just couldn't. He'd start crying from frustration while trying to go on the potty.

Then one day, at 4.5, I noticed his diaper was staying dry for hours on end, and asked if he wanted to try going on the potty again. We went to the store together and I let him choose which potty he'd like to try, and he just did it. 

The same happened with getting dressed. No matter how often I tried to encourage or "teach" him how to dress himself, nothing changed, until one morning (I think he was around 5.5 or so) he told me he wanted to get dressed and asked me to leave his room. He took forever, but he came out completely dressed, without any help. 

Kids learn things at different rates. My DS is still what some would call "behind" on some basic personal care skills, but I don't believe that sending him to school would remedy this, on the contrary, it would probably just cause problems, such as lowering his self confidence, and probably teasing from other kids about it. But he's learning, each year he's able to do more for himself, so I'm not too worried. I know how family members in particular are very good at making you doubt yourself though, my in-laws especially are very good at it!

On the other hand, academically, he's advanced for his age. He would be in 3rd grade if he went to school, and is nearly finished with 4th grade math, and well over half way in 4th grade in grammar, reads at least at a 5th grade level, and I am constantly told that his verbal communication skills are years ahead of his age (at least when he wants to, LOL). He also plays the cello at least at a high school level. 

Some kids just don't fit so well in the "cookie cutter" shape that public school tries to fit all kids into.

Looking at things in hind sight, I would have done much better had I been homeschooled. I had a lot of the things that my DS is dealing with, and a lot of damage was done to my self confidence, which I am still working on so many decades later! That's what I remind myself in moments of doubt about whether I'm doing the right thing with my DS, when people tell me that it's "my fault" that he can't do certain simple things (or at least not as well as he "should"). People can say very hurtful things, even when they mean well. 

Over the years I have been told my DS had cerebral palsy because he was not mobile at all at 15 months (by a pediatric neurologist, mind you - she later apologized for the misdiagnosis, but still), that he might never walk if I didn't push him to learn - he was 21 months when hwalked, that he would never be out of diapers, would never be able to go anywhere without mommy (recently he asked me to stay in the car when I drop him off at his gymnastics class. You get the idea. Unless there is some real medical issue of course, kids do grow up and learn.

 

Anyway, all this to say that I think your DS is doing just fine and will learn at his own pace.

pickle18 likes this.
ewink is offline  
#4 of 21 Old 03-20-2014, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
mrstovar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

Thanks for the thoughtful responses and the reassurance! I do so want to do what is best for my son. I'm rather surprised and a bit baffled at his  lack of interest in personal care things, when he is so curious about so many other things!

mrstovar is offline  
#5 of 21 Old 03-20-2014, 07:59 PM
 
skreader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I am going to gently disagree w/ the consensus here. I think that most people don't learn much if left completely to themselves & that teaching is often required for learning. I didn't learn how to play "Go Fish" by myself as a child, someone had to teach me the rules and methods of play. :)

 

My kids are now in their teens (16 & 18), but I had to help them learn to brush their teeth, wash their hands thoroughly, use the  toilet.   I taught them rhymes and songs  & games.

 

Your post worries me, because what  you describe as your son's development does not sound completely normal (needing  help with eating, little interest in dressing self &  not using the toilet). I have 2 kids & ~ 20 nieces & nephews, - kids ranging in age from 1 month to 22 years old. Some of the kids are what one one call "developmentally normal"; some have physical disabilities, others have neuro-cognitive disabilities. From what you've written, your son *may* need some help.

 

I would recommend that you look at what are considered normal milestones in self-care. It sounds like your son is not doing some of them:

 

Dressing:

http://www.kamloopschildrenstherapy.org/dressing

 

Self-feeding milestones - that was the thing in your post that really made my "antennae" beep.

http://www.kamloopschildrenstherapy.org/eating-drinking

 

Here is a website about child development  that may  also give you a sense of whether you want to have him evaluated &  see if it's just a "normal" sort of delay (he will get to those milestones in his own good time) or whether he has a developmental delay  that could be addressed by Early Intervention (e.g. occupational therapy, etc.)

 

http://www.beststart.org/OnTrack_English/3-preschooler.html#3years

 

http://www.beststart.org/OnTrack_English/3-preschooler.html#4years

 

I really hope that your son is OK & just marching to his own drummer, but please do consider that he may have some developmental delays & may need some help.
swede likes this.
skreader is offline  
#6 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 07:50 AM
 
SweetSilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Westfarthing
Posts: 5,026
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)

Beyond the potty training issue, I'm not seeing him as not learning this stuff, I'm seeing this as not doing it when you really want him to.  Dressing oneself, using the potty instead of diapers are steps to independence, and I fully believe that kids see this for what it is.  I don't think it is fully a matter of acquirement of skills.  Dressing oneself meant that mommy wouldn't.  It meant that we were leaving the house.  Often it meant pressure to do things themselves when no one asked if they wanted to.  It means an incredible loss of control--being able to control the events and the timing and the pace of independence.

 

I had 2 girls who were ready for potty training, but I will admit that once they showed some basic competency, the door to diapers slammed shut.  I am not proud of that tactic, but I washed diapers and enough was enough.  I otherwise worked very hard to make it easy for them.  They were naked most of the day.  I made sure the potty followed them around so they never had to go very far.  I never chided them for accidents.  I bit the bullet and potty trained 24hrs a day when I saw that it affected their daytime progress (I was NOT willing to lose more sleep than I had already, but I did it anyway).

 

skreader, I see what you are saying and I wouldn't want to discourage the OP from considering delays.  But clearly others have posted with their experiences, so I wouldn't put *too* much weight to milestones either.  One of the many reasons many people are drawn to unschooling is that their kids don't fit neatly into the milestone map.  And (with a gentle reminder that we are in the unschooling forum and so the advice placed here will reflect that) I also see what you are saying about learning and agree in the sense that learning doesn't happen in vacuum.  Teaching happens in many ways, not all of them direct.  Especially at this age teaching happens indirectly through example and mimicry.  I do think that if something happens regularly at home (dressing oneself, using the potty, playing Go Fish) that kids will eventually learn to do it.  The key in unschooling is that children are the main drivers of their own learning (their own progression and timing) not that they necessarily teach themselves.

4evermom likes this.

Give me a few minutes while I caffeinate.
SweetSilver is offline  
#7 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 08:16 AM
 
4evermom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)

My son was the same way and not at all developmentally delayed or having any special needs. There really is a wide range of normal. You need to go with your mama instincts with this kind of thing... It's good to contemplate the possibility of special needs. Understanding when your child has them can really help you find resources to help you help him. And it helps others be more understanding. But your little boy is only 3 and if he is having normal social interactions and seems to be developing normally on an intellectual level, I wouldn't worry unduly about self care. It is something many young children learn because they need to from being in a group of children, either with siblings or daycare. An only child being homeschooled, like mine, doesn't get the same experience. 

 

My son urinated in the toilet, standing up, from a pretty young age (2 1/2) but he would not sit on the toilet for love or money to have a bowel movement. I kinda pushed him at age 5. I honestly ran out of diapers and he was desperate enough to use the toilet. He was too squeamish to go in underpants or anything else. And after that hurdle, I didn't buy anymore diapers even though he would have liked to continue using them.

 

He insisted I brush his teeth until he was pretty old (9 or 10??) This was partially because he had early decay and many cavities from a young age. He didn't want to be responsible for his teeth because even when mama did everything right, he got cavities and the dentist dished out lectures.

 

He sometimes still likes help with clothes though he is perfectly capable of dressing himself with the exception of tying his shoes. It's possible he can tie a bow but he hasn't shown me that he can. He's had velcro shoes in the past because he hadn't any interest in learning to tie laces.

 

Part of my son's slowness in self care is that his "Language of Love" seems to be service. My doing things for him is how he feels loved. He doesn't ask other people to do things for him. And actually, that is a good test of what a child can truly do. But it's hard when you homeschool and are with your child 24/7. I remember one time when my son was 2 that he put on his sandals by himself because he was with his cousins and they were running out the door. He wanted to keep up rather than waste time looking for me. After that, he didn't put on his own shoes for years. 

 

Another issue is that he is a perfectionist. He would rather observe a zillion times and do it right on a first attempt.

 

And the last issue with my son was that he is "highly sensitive." He does not have SPD (sensory processing disorder) but he absolutely hated food touching his lips, especially anything messy. So he did like help eating anything messy at 3, 4, and 5. He also didn't like getting things on his hands so he'd only self feed very neat, non sticky foods. At that point, it was far better to feed him and get him fed than to push self care. And he grew out of it. 


Mom to unschooling 4everboy since 8/01
4evermom is offline  
#8 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 10:27 AM
 
moominmamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In the middle of nowhere, at the centre of everything.
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skreader View Post
 

I think that most people don't learn much if left completely to themselves & that teaching is often required for learning. I didn't learn how to play "Go Fish" by myself as a child, someone had to teach me the rules and methods of play. :)

 

This is of course the unschooling forum. Parents here tend to question the normal definitions of 'teach' and 'learn,' and many of us have chosen this path because we want our kids to flourish according to their own milestones and not according to normed social conventions. We tend to be big believers in a very wide range of normal, and in the value of children's unique natural trajectories. Most of us also believe that being taught "Go Fish" when you're not interested in learning how to play despite seeing others happily engaged in the game would be cruel and disrespectful of your desires.

 

My eldest dd was 28 months before she starting talking and 42 months before she developed an interest in using the toilet. According to some superficial milestones she was developmentally delayed, but she was also beginning to read by the time she started talking, and playing beginning violin tunes very capably while still in diapers. I didn't ignore her areas of 'delay,' but I looked at them in context, and my instincts told me she was just asynchronous: her learning energy was going into intellectual areas and not so much into others. It turns out she's intellectually gifted and despite her prolonged preference for diapers she has a huge drive towards independence couched in a perfectionistic streak a mile wide. She almost always refused any direct help with learning, she was intensely private when trying new things, and that sometimes slowed her learning down if she met with a stumbling block. But her areas of relative delay caught up quickly when she was ready. She was the teen who backpacked through third-world countries with family friends for several months at 14-15, and moved across the country to live on her own in a big city very successfully at 17, managing her education and finances and daily living completely unsupported. 

 

I think that 4evermom's comments about service as a Love Language is another good explanation for why some kids may continue to prefer abdicating aspects of self-care to parents longer than average. And her comments about the lack of social pressure from a preschool peer-group or from siblings are excellent too. (I have four kids and the acceleration in acquisition of big-kid behaviours from the oldest to the youngest has been remarkable. I'd say that on average each subsequent sibling did everything about 6 month sooner than his or her predecessor.)

 

Anyway, back to the original post. We're talking about a 3-year-old who is beginning to read and write and has excellent numeracy skills. He's showing progress in aspects of self-care (taking off jackets, doing up the sandals correctly) but still lacks a level of skill and interest that some of his age-peers have. He doesn't currently have a big drive towards mastering these things, and I guess the issue is how to gently encourage progress, beyond simply providing modelling and support when asked. As a parent of a couple of stubborn perfectionists who has been burned when trying to gently push her kids into something, my tendency would be to stay extremely low-key. I might encourage more naked-time before and after baths, outdoors in the yard as the weather warms up, etc. in an effort to encourage awareness about toileting. I might encourage taking turns with spoonfuls of food, making a game out of things as much as possible. If he gets frustrated finding the arms in his jacket I'd show him that if you lie a jacket out like a little person is wearing it on the floor, and then sit in front of it where the pants go, the arms will be the right way when you try to put it on -- and I'd cheerfully devote some time to trying out the trick every time you help him put his jacket on. I would make sure that it is clear that independence with various tasks does not mean less parental attention and involvement. In other words I'd try to resist the urge to yell from the kitchen "Try and see if you can get your jacket on yourself!" and instead say "Call me when you're ready to put on your jacket so I can come and be proud of your tries!" I might provide some stepping-stone tools that are enticing to him ... special big-kid underwear, or a big-handled spoon he picks out himself, or some new swim trunks he likes that will be easier to pull on than long pants, new sneakers that are chosen in part because they're easy to slip on and do up himself, a sand-and-glass egg timer in the bathroom that gives him one minute to do his own tooth-brushing before you take your turn on his teeth. Fun things that might encourage him to move one small step closer to independence without fear of failure and without fear that your support and involvement is going to be withdrawn.

 

But mostly I'd remember that he's three years old and that your instincts about his overall development should be honoured. If in your gut you believe he's just fine, and it's only the concern of people who barely know him and assume he'll be heading off to pre-K or JK in the fall that has got you wondering, then I would just chill. Provide opportunities for growth, but don't feel the need to push. He's not going to be humiliated next September because he's the one of only two kids in his class who needs help with his jacket every day.

 

Miranda


Mountain mama to three great kids and one great grown-up

moominmamma is online now  
#9 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 12:19 PM
 
Eris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Seattleish
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

At 44 months, he isn't really almost four- in fact, he's got 9% of his life to go before he turns four- it'd be like more than 2.5 years from now if you're 30 years old. And going to kindergarten "soon"? That's 17-18 months away, or eleven years for a 30 year old.


Unschooling mama to DD1, 11/2001
and DD2, 11/2004
Eris is online now  
#10 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 12:45 PM
 
moominmamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In the middle of nowhere, at the centre of everything.
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)

In Ontario Canada, kindergarten starts in September of the calendar year in which the child turns 4. In England Reception starts either the term or the school year in which the child turns five. In both cases he could be starting in September. I have no idea where mrstovar is from, but it's possible the age of public schooling is closer than you assume. Not that it matters, since he won't be going to school. :thumb Your point about his age is well-taken: he's not "almost four." He's three.

 

Miranda


Mountain mama to three great kids and one great grown-up

moominmamma is online now  
#11 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 09:03 PM
 
skreader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi all,
 
As I said in my posting - I hope that MrsTovar's son is going along his own trajectory - but that some of what she wrote made me wonder if she had considered developmental delays & whether he could use some help. The post was subject lined "How Can I best help my son learn?".
 
Having raised 2 kids & helped numerous people ranging from toddlers to adults learn different skills, I was concerned that her son *may* be having some delays and might benefit from an evaluation (to either set her mind at ease, or to get some more help).
 
I too believe that trying to force a kid to learn to play Go Fish before they want to & if they have no interest in it would be foolish & cruel.      I assumed that "unschooling"  did not not mean "no instruction or guidance provided" and hope that I did not cause offense by suggesting that explicit instruction can often help further learning.
 
I will now bow out of the forum, because my attempt to help seems to be causing offense.
swede likes this.
skreader is offline  
#12 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 10:04 PM
 
ewink's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

My personal opinion is (and this is after having experience with the state system that provides free "help" for children who are deemed developmentally "delayed") is that they tend to jump to conclusions a bit too soon these days, and give children labels, which are often unnecessary. Here's where this opinion comes from. I was born in Europe the late 60's, didn't walk until nearly 2 years old, did things related to self care later than most kids. I remember my mom telling me stories how the kindergarten teachers (and Kindergarten started at 3 years old then, now 2.5, and is 3 years) were constantly complaining to my mom about how I always slowed down the other kids because it took me forever to even try putting on my own coat or shoes, and in the end still needed the teacher's help. I didn't walk stairs until I was at least 5 years old. She also told me that it took me forever to get dressed for school in the morning, and to get ready for bed in the evening, and my homework took forever too. That was mainly because I was a day dreamer; I still am, but over the years I have learned to channel that ability to fantasize and day dream into my music playing and composing, and to focus on getting done whatever other job I'm doing - for the most part.

No doctor ever told my mom I had any developmental issues, or was delayed in any way. One dr jokingly said I'd grow up to be an artist; guess he was right. I did, and still do, have flat feet, and have worn custom made orthotic insoles since age 2. And going to school did absolutely NOTHING to "fix" any "issues", I just had to learn to deal with things. I ended up doing just fine in high school, in the conservatory in Europe, and later getting a Master's Degree in the US>

I see the same "issues" in my DS. He wasn't mobile when he "should have been", he wasn't eating solids when he "should have", he wasn't walking and later using the toilet when he "should have", wasn't able to run, jump or go on stairs at the "right time" etc. But here, doctors were all too fast to label him, with all sorts of labels, from cerebral palsy at 15 months (I don't think I will ever truly forgive the pediatric neurologist who caused the unnecessary heartbreak with that misdiagnosis), to Sensory Processing Disorder, hypotonia, and more recently likely ADHD. As I said above, he received all sorts of "help", provided at no cost through the state (of California) from age 8 months through 3 years, which did absolutely nothing, other than causing worry for us. I suppose that some of it was actually fun for DS, but it sure didn't "help" him learn anything faster. He did things when he was ready.He still does.

He's bright, very musically talented, and is now running and jumping around more than enough, which of course is now causing some to suggest he may have ADHD! He's a 9 year old boy with lots of energy!

 

I am more and more taking some well meant "advice" about "issues" my children have with a grain of salt, and follow my mama instinct. When I feel something might be wrong, then it's time to get advice.

 

And, even though our unschooling journey is very short and I don't really know a huge amount about it yet, I don't believe that unschooling means not teaching your child anything. I think if your child wants to learn to play Go Fish, you help your child play the game as an unschooling parent. I think it just means that you don't tell your child "now you have to learn how to play Go Fish". Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

4evermom likes this.
ewink is offline  
#13 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
mrstovar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

Thanks so much for all the replies and personal experiences.

 

I got distracted from this thread (which is why I was not responding, sorry) when I read something in another post here on mothering that implied that pottying issues may be connected to constipation--constipation has been an issue for our son since last Sept. when he had to have work done on his teeth and they gave him demeral to sedate him. Well, my husband ordered Natural Calm last night which we hope our son will accept and will help his bowels move. I'm also encouraging him to eat apple slices, etc. Then when the weather warms up I hope to encourage him to go bare bottomed at least when I'm here (most afternoons I'm working) and I'll see what happens. It would be such a relief for me to see him use the bathroom. And yes, it's definitely related to expectations of extended family members which I try hard to not take too seriously but effect me none the less,

 

I really appreciate hearing your experiences with your own children, etc. It gives me some prospective.

mrstovar is offline  
#14 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 07:46 AM
 
4evermom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstovar View Post
constipation has been an issue for our son since last Sept.

That's part of why I didn't push things with my son... He didn't necessarily have constipation but he was already on an every other day or every third day schedule (and had been even when exclusively breastfed.) So if he had to go, and asked me for a diaper, I sure didn't want to deny him one when it would mean he'd decide he didn't have to go after all. An apple a day helped a lot but he wasn't always willing (he really didn't like fruit much.) Many people find that limiting dairy helps, as well. Ds had a mild milk allergy so he didn't eat much dairy in the first place.


Mom to unschooling 4everboy since 8/01
4evermom is offline  
#15 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 08:04 AM
 
swede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstovar View Post
 

Thanks so much for all the replies and personal experiences.

 

I got distracted from this thread (which is why I was not responding, sorry) when I read something in another post here on mothering that implied that pottying issues may be connected to constipation--constipation has been an issue for our son since last Sept. when he had to have work done on his teeth and they gave him demeral to sedate him. Well, my husband ordered Natural Calm last night which we hope our son will accept and will help his bowels move. I'm also encouraging him to eat apple slices, etc. Then when the weather warms up I hope to encourage him to go bare bottomed at least when I'm here (most afternoons I'm working) and I'll see what happens. It would be such a relief for me to see him use the bathroom. And yes, it's definitely related to expectations of extended family members which I try hard to not take too seriously but effect me none the less,

 

I really appreciate hearing your experiences with your own children, etc. It gives me some prospective.


just a note about constipation.  All the fiber in the world won't help unless there is adequate water intake along with it.  Be sure you are giving him plenty to drink along with the apple slices, etc...  Good luck!

swede is offline  
#16 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 08:11 AM
 
mapleleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I was also going to mention that limiting diary might help with constipation.  If he is not getting much fibre you could try to add hemp hearts into his diet.  They are high in fibre, as well as many other benefits.

mapleleaf is offline  
#17 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 08:42 AM
 
SweetSilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Westfarthing
Posts: 5,026
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skreader View Post
 
I will now bow out of the forum, because my attempt to help seems to be causing offense.

I don't think anyone was offended.  We are a bit sturdier than that.  I think that because people find these in "New Threads" they often don't notice what forum they are in, and I think your comment more indicated that *might* be the case, so a couple of us spoke up to point it out.  I don't think any of us here would mind disagreement and debate as long as it was respectful of the basic premise of unschooling.

 

I think as a group we tend towards being skeptical of milestones, as many if not most of us deal with at least some asynchronous development.  So our first response is almost always "wait and see".  Milestones at this age tend to look towards the inevitability of school/preschool/preK, which is not necessarily the case here.  Boys, especially, are often determined to have delays based on this timeline, while homeschooling parents find that these "delays" tend to work themselves out without intervention.  

 

*You are right* in that true delays would be well served by identification and help.  I often see that argument come up especially for language delays--those who chose to wait, those who sought help are both arguing that their path was best.

 

Anyway, I think I can safely say that no one was offended.  We wrap ourselves in our Cloak of Protection mainly for people who come on here trying to sound openminded and then finally state what they really believe--that unschooling is irresponsible, blah blah blah, and worse that I won't get into.   With your comments we were just being cautious.  


Give me a few minutes while I caffeinate.
SweetSilver is offline  
#18 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 09:53 AM
 
moominmamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In the middle of nowhere, at the centre of everything.
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)

skreader, I'm sorry if my response to you sounded defensive or negative. As SweetSilver says, we tend to be fairly skeptical of milestones in this forum. And in my own case I reacted against your implication that the original poster had left her son completely to himself and not given any teaching or guidance, as if this is what unschoolers do. That tends to push my buttons a bit, as it's a common misconception about unschooling. Your follow-up post makes it clear that you don't believe that, but your first post taken in isolation suggested that was your assumption. 

 

Miranda


Mountain mama to three great kids and one great grown-up

moominmamma is online now  
#19 of 21 Old 03-23-2014, 07:44 AM
 
mapleleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skreader View Post
I will now bow out of the forum, because my attempt to help seems to be causing offense.

I don't think people were taking offense, people just disagreed with you and voiced it.....as you did:)

mapleleaf is offline  
#20 of 21 Old 03-23-2014, 10:50 PM
 
skreader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Thanks for your reassurances that I wasn't causing offense. :)

 

I am returning to offer another suggestion. I have found that game-playing  & role-playing was very helpful in teaching & learning.

 

In terms of the dressing issue: Like socks - I remember teaching my kids how to bunch the sock up at the toe before pulling it on. Maybe, MrsTovar, you can demo putting socks on a teddy-bear, or socks on a baby doll, and then have him try to put socks on the bear or baby doll, and then on himself? Or, you put on your own socks (step-by-step) while he does the same steps on himself?  Or for even more silliness, he puts your socks on you?    Then try T-shirts, and build up from there?

 

Perhaps w/ eating (which you also state he needs help w/) -  you feed him a bite, he feeds you a bite, then each of you feed yourselves a bite? Then  you feed him, he feeds you, then each feed your selves 2 bites, etc?

 

re: pottying - if constipation is still an issue, maybe concentrate on urinating in the toilet? One of my children was happily using the toilet to pee for months before using it for poop.

skreader is offline  
#21 of 21 Old 03-24-2014, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
mrstovar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

Billy loves to feed me! I will keep on allowing him to do so. Probably he would enjoy trying to put on my socks too. I've learned a bunch from this thread, thanks a lot

mrstovar is offline  
Reply

Tags
Unschooling

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off