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How important is fiction?

2K views 52 replies 13 participants last post by  rightkindofme 
#1 ·
I have a 5 year old who vastly prefers non-fiction and will basically always choose it, whether in read-aloud or video form. He refuses to even set foot in the kids fiction section of the library. I think he pretty much only hears fiction when he decides to listen in on his 3 year old sister's choices. Going with a child-led approach, I can imagine that this sort of thing could get ingrained--he'll have no one forcing any required reading on him.

How have your kids cycled through fiction/non-fiction preferences over the years? Did you work to introduce the less-preferred kind of book at all? And do you think it matters if a kid only reads about planets and elements and dinosaurs (or alternately, only about fictional characters?)
 
#2 ·
I don't think that's how child-led learning works: kids don't develop preferences early and then get stuck inside their narrow little pathway of interests. Child-led learning works because (a) everything is connected to everything else and (b) kids who haven't been forced to do things that don't appeal to them are willing to follow those connections when they become interesting and meaningful to them.

That's not to say that you would never seek to provide exposure to other possibilities to a child who had strong interests in one area, particularly if the other possibilities are things you would truly enjoy sharing with him. But "exposure" should stop well short of anything that could produce resistance and negative associations. My kids were little fact-mongers at that age: though they were okay with me reading fiction read aloud to them, their preference for their own reading and learning was definitely non-fiction. I didn't focus on fiction as much as I did on encouraging creativity. While 4.5 is supposedly the developmental peak for imaginary play, my kids' imaginative play probably peaked when they were close to twice that age -- and gosh was it sophisticated and creative, complete with websites, digital 3D characters, publications, indexes, musical compositions, histories and such.

Fiction isn't for everyone, at least not at all stages of life. Almost half of Americans haven't read a novel in the past year. But most people enjoy fiction some form or other at some point or other. I'd be willing to bet your fiction-resistant 5-year-old will become an 10-year-old writing Hitchhiker's Guide fan fiction or an 11-year-old creating a machinima re-enactments of scenes from Avenger movies or an 8-year-old who has a secret sci-fi identity for whom he's building a movie script in his head.

So hey, I wouldn't worry. I'd only try to support the development of creative pursuits with just as much gusto as you do the analytical ones. And I'd expect interest in fiction and imagination to arise from the particular factual interests your ds has. You do know you can buy Higgs Boson plushies, right?

Miranda
 
#3 ·
DS6 is only into being read certain fiction, such as Winnie-the-Pooh, Paddington and some others. He has definitely never been into anything to do with midgets, fairies, wizards, or any type of moralistic fairy tale. The fiction stories he prefers most are the ones he creates on a daily basis with his dad featuring his stuffed animals and various props at hand. Right now they have a huge balloon attached to a wicker basket and 'polar bear' is having a blast. DS is also much into science type fact gathering.
 
#4 ·
I'm a former English teacher. I have strong feelings about fiction. There has been some research that reading fiction increases empathy: http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2013/oct/08/literary-fiction-improves-empathy-study

I have always read fiction out loud and I would do so even if it wasn't the first choice of a particular child. I am a HUGE proponent that everyone needs to hear about lives that are very different from your own.

But we read a lot of non-fiction too. :) I'm partial to more reading! :)
 
#6 ·
My girls love non-fiction and always have.

At their ages, when they are still working out some of the difficulties of reading with total ease, they prefer to listen to fiction rather than read it (excepting graphic novels) mostly because the act of reading is just difficult enough, it detracts from the flow of the story for them. For my 9yo, mysteries are especially difficult because she likes spending time thinking about the who and what of the story, and reading just takes too much of that brain power.
 
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#7 ·
Well, I'd bet anything that my younger kid who likes fiction (and is always talking about the emotions and relationships of the people in the stories, and is very social) has better empathy than my geeky kid who'd rather have me look up information on gluons than hear a bedtime story. But I'd bet that's the cause of their preferences though, rather than the effect.

How much effort is appropriate to put into making a kid a "more-well-rounded" person?

Exposure could be defined simply as making something available (having fiction on the shelves), and being willing to read it aloud.

Or attempting to draw his attention to fiction books I think he'd like: "Hey, I found a really neat story, want to hear?"

Or preferentially giving MY attention to fiction over other things he wants to do with me: "If you want me to read a story I will, otherwise I'll just keep on cleaning the kitchen."

Or just making it happen whether he's interested or not: "I'm reading stories now, you can help pick the story if you want."
(My kids can't read on their own yet, so all books are consumed through listening)

Is having a math workbook on the shelves in case a kid takes an interest enough for that subject? Can it work the same way for stories? Or is this all hopelessly entangled with the priorities of the parents? For instance, outdoor time is something that I just need to have happen, and so it does (logistically, it would be hard to have it work differently). But I guess I've always been looser with books. We have lots around and go to the library, and I'll read to them--but when they go through phases of preferring other stuff and don't want to be read to, I've never pushed it.
 
#8 ·
Exposure could be defined simply as making something available (having fiction on the shelves), and being willing to read it aloud.

Or attempting to draw his attention to fiction books I think he'd like: "Hey, I found a really neat story, want to hear?"

Or preferentially giving MY attention to fiction over other things he wants to do with me: "If you want me to read a story I will, otherwise I'll just keep on cleaning the kitchen."

Or just making it happen whether he's interested or not: "I'm reading stories now, you can help pick the story if you want."
(My kids can't read on their own yet, so all books are consumed through listening)
Or, having a nightly read aloud as part of their bedtime routine. Our read alouds used to always be "mom's choice" because I was trying to find something that would be interesting and appropriate for all my kids at once. I still read aloud to them, but they have more input now. In your case, you have one child that likes fiction and one that likes nonfiction. I would probably take turns with that in my selection. Perhaps I would read a couple picture books at night (one of each) or if I was doing a longer book, I would alternate. Or, you could try a book like the Magic Tree House series in which fact is woven into the story. Follow it up with their companion books (those are non-fiction).

Amy
 
#9 ·
I agree about the preferences. I was always hyper-empathetic and hated nonfiction growing up. Now, I read it almost exclusively though usually in the context of auto/biographies ("The Road from Coorain") and books like "The Big Year" rather than straight-up just-the-facts books. For physics I loved the Dancing Wu-Li Masters and The Physics of Star Trek, more humanized versions of science-based books. Conversely, books that are too touchy-feely are now far too precious. I run screaming from any book that already has "poignant" somewhere on the jacket.

Oh, and chickens. I just read Storey's Poultry Encyclopedia cover to cover. (DD9 and I even found an incorrectly identified photo in there and need to contact the publisher.)

I think this really can be parent priorities. But even things I prioritize I don't push, even spending time outdoors. I just do it when I can, encourage them to do it. I was quite the homebody growing up, and I love spending time outdoors now. I hated school science, but I love it now and consider it an area that I have unschooled myself quite effectively.

I have a lot of beefs about my mother, but this I can say for her: she was never idle. Sure, she was fairly *sedentary* but those hands and that mind were always busy. If it wasn't a book, it was knitting or cross stitch or quilting. She would study favorite subjects, especially history, family genealogy. She was a talented artist (she wanted to study interior design or architecture in college but this was 1960 and she was soundly discouraged from all sides). She picked up scrimshaw when my parents were deep into their lapidary hobby. She picked up programming then desktop publishing and used her incredible skills to staff the Macintosh User Group office for years. She had a midlife career change from secretary work to more technology-based positions (this in the early '80s) and retired as a desktop publisher. I cannot ever remember her without something in her hands, and excepting a considerable amount of pulp fiction (she devoured books and I remember many wonderful trips to the bookstore), it was always something that was on the edge of what she knew. She taught me that life was about learning, always, always learning the next thing. Clearing out her "sewing" room was a monumental effort after my parents' deaths. She had begun making dolls (clothes, etc.), had extensive collection of painting tools, calligraphy tools, old drafting tools, quilting, lapidary equipment.... drawers and drawers shelves and shelves filled with stuff for making more stuff.... a lifetime of learning the next thing. The boxes and boxes and towers of books.

She never pushed me in anyway to match her skills or her priorities. She encouraged me, for sure. She loved the company, even if it was just me accompanying her to the fabric store to help pick out patterns and materials for clothes she wanted to make for me. She never balked when I chose theater as a major. When I was deep into my favorite band, she bought me records. She never batted .400, but she was enthusiastic about trying.

Anyway, I ramble terribly.

I can't say as a parent that I never say "now is the time to..." because I do have bedtime routines with stories that they can exchange for quiet time. And I can't say I never pick up books and materials that might stretch them in "my" direction a little. I know "My Side of the Mountain" has been borrowed from the library on many occasions and never read or requested. Oh well. Chronicles of Narnia sits on the shelf. They love the movies but somehow aren't interested in the books. The Cuisenaire rods get used for other purposes.

So, maybe you could find some science-based fiction to read, but if he's not interested... I think well rounded people are wonderful. I know in centuries past, it was the great goal for young gentleman to become well versed in all sorts of disciplines. But as far as parents creating well-roundedness rather than just providing the materials for children to choose, well, I think that's overrated.

Again and again, it all comes back to what is meaningful. Sure, we all have that novel or subject that some great teacher introduced us to and we are forever grateful. My mom handed me The Hobbit after we saw Ralph Bakshi's film of LOTR, beginning a lifetime love. But for the most part, I don't think these things can be designed in because you never know what is going to be the "hook". And, with school and all things that become essentially mandatory, how many things did I turn my back on vs. how many things that really inspired me? I mean, I love Wuthering Heights and all that, even if Heathcliff is a cruel, abusive bastard, but it was a small gift in a sea of trash.
 
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#10 ·
I wonder if there's any very very gentle sci-fi out there? He's adamantly against anything even a little bit scary.

We've never done quite the traditional bedtime story around here. Each kid just gets a bit of 1 on 1 time with mom or dad for an activity of their choosing. Sometimes a picture book or a few pages of a long non-fiction text, but other times folding origami, or playing a game, or asking questions, listening to music, etc...

I guess I'd like them to be introduced to a wide variety of things, but certainly if you get all the way to a school-like enforcement of well-roundedness it can backfire. (I regret the decades I spent convinced that I detested history and english--before I finally came to them on my own terms as an adult).

Thinking a bit broader than just the fiction thing: it's not really stretching them in "my" direction that gives me pause. More the opposite, really. They can't help but have plenty of exposure to the things we love, whether they come to love them or not. But how much is enough when it comes to exposing them to things that aren't a part of our own lives? (thinking not about supporting them in interests that aren't mine, just exposing them to those interests in the first place).
 
#11 ·
But how much is enough when it comes to exposing them to things that aren't a part of our own lives? (thinking not about supporting them in interests that aren't mine, just exposing them to those interests in the first place).
I get overwhelmed just thinking about everything there is to know about, and I mean really cool things, not just "well, you gotta know about this..." kind of things, if that makes sense. So, when faced with it, I start thinking that what you and I have in our lives really is "enough".
 
#13 ·
Sorry for the novel...


1. My son is/was like this. It has changed (slowly) and he enjoys fiction but still has a strong preference for non fiction. My librarian said it was typical of boys. With that said, keep trying. My guess is you haven't found the right book. (takes doing, as vermonters say.) List to follow. (We are huge readers...nothing I say is judgey, swear.)

2. Please don't read magic tree house or these kinds of books out loud. They are meant to build reading confidence...and they sound awful. Besides they are boring as all get out. My son reads them now for the same reason we watch sitcoms but back in the day no way. These books can really turn a slow or reluctant reader (or a super young advanced reader) around. The nice thing about fiction is that it can be pretty...it should sound pretty...especially when "seducing" a listener. Have you tried poetry? Nikki Giovanni for sure (yell it, dance it, don't just read it with her), shel Silverstein (Seuss? They challenged me to read fox in socks really fast, good times)

3. Is there kids sci-fi? You bet!
Technically, magic school bus is sci-fi.
There are aspects of non fiction that are unappealing. For my son, it was emotion. He hated emotion and talking animals. You might want to start with realistic fiction or at least bounce back and forth until you find it and exploit it. The key is to bob and weave...chaos will find order. (And...I can write volumes on the subject, Star Wars is fantasy not sci-fi.)

4. And yes, I think it matters. We use fiction to explore ourselves as individuals and as a culture. Filter the hypotheticals and define the lines of our own morality. Then of course there is critical thinking and mind blow of new ideas (not always the text but its spawn). It is never healthy to be unbalanced...fiction/nonfiction is no different. That said, maybe he doesn't want to explore his soul right now...but rather the universe. I promise there is fiction out there...just not on the surface. And just because he isn't into it now doesn't mean it will always be this way...like kale, it still goes on the table. And if not sautéed with garlic, how about in chicken stew or kale chips. So yea, he won't go into the fiction but you can! Role model this behavior. Read non fiction in the fiction stack...get the librarian to pair books for you so if he brings a book about planets you coyly sit next to where auroa's light or when reading Dino books be ready to pull dinosaur dream (Nolan) and be like, oh hey, what's this hey look. Flip through the pictures and just see...sometimes the words work but illustrations fall flat, vise versa, or jackpot.

5. Because you didn't make it a thing, it's not a thing...but it ain't no thing! ^_^
It just occurred to me...since you didn't do it early on it isn't really in his periphery. I still think he wouldn't be into fiction even if you had spent 3 hours before bed reading burgess and wise brown. So I think biographies might be the place to start...historical, science based, earth based and then let it expand organically. When I pull books for curriculum I pull fiction too so for wolves I pull 3 little pigs. I get copies with nice art and just look at the pictures which helps learn how to draw the animal, right. (But in honesty my son hated drawing and writing so whatevs) Pictures books might still be needed. There are many awesome picture books. I love them and my husband thinks of them as baby graphic novels.
I will make a starter list for ideas.

6. Wordless books? (Mercer Mayer, Suzy lee?) if you want a list of wordless books that hit the spot, ask.

7. When reading books like cat in the hat knows a lot about...planets or whatever, explain that there are parts that are nonfiction...
There are books that bridge the gap...if you want a list, let me know.

List of books to consider:
Biographies:
Abe Lincoln's hat, general's dog, George washington's mother
beam of light (Einstein) by ...?...
Why don't you get a horse sam Adams by fritz (a couple of them) might the lead to redcoats and petticoats by Kirkpatrick which might to lead to sam the minuteman by Benchley
***mary smith by u'ren
Um, first painter by ...?... (Almost kinda sorta a biography)


OOOO time flies (no words!)
****The incredible journey by burnford
I am on a mission because I loved this book so much (as a mother)...especially this time of year. Disney killed it but it is one of the best books ever! My kids loved this book.
Oh RAMA THE GYPSY CAT!!!
Billy and blaze series
Oooooo OMG! I totally forgot MAX GOES TO MARS!!! For reals! Read this book today!

The bob & weave books
Hugo caberet & wonderstuck by Brian Selznick
Nick & tesla series (be prepared for the experiments)
Walk two moons by creech
Boxcar children (just the first one)
Henry Huggins (bob and weave)
The norby series by Asimov
Commander toad by yolen
Greek myths
Gilgamesh for kids books (can't remember the title)
If you decide to go to the moon by mcnulty
Stink on cd...well done...

Does this help or is it noise? Fingers crossed
 
#14 ·
Please don't read magic tree house or these kinds of books out loud. They are meant to build reading confidence...and they sound awful.
Thank you for saying this! To my mind it's as if, hoping to inspire your child to want to learn to play an instrument, you bought tickets to a piano recital filled with various one-finger-at-time versions of Hot Cross Buns. I mean, Hot Cross Buns is a great tune for learning to play the piano, but if want your child to hear music to inspire him to learn, give him Rachmaninoff! Of course it's possible that for a particular child Rachmaninoff is cacaphonous and overwhelming, before reverting to Hot Cross Buns I would try Haydn and Bach and Duckworth and Glass and Ravel and Joplin and Satie and Mozart and Chopin and Liszt and Lennon & McCartney and Oscar Peterson and and and....

Magic Treehouse and series of that ilk are best saved for kids who are learning to read. That's what they're intended for, with their carefully controlled vocabulary, large print, short, simple sentences and predictability. "Look out!" said Annie. "Run!" said Jack. Jack and Annie ran up the hill to the forest.
:shake

Miranda
 
#16 ·
Good ideas, biographies of scientists. Not exactly fiction, but stories nonetheless. Though it's not physics, one of my favorites was a picture book about Roger Tory Peterson, "For the Birds" I think it was. I liked it because it was very unschooling, interest-led, self-directed learning kind of stuff, even though Peterson did attend school. I know I've read many biographies of scientists from all disciplines. (Marie Curie's discovery and infamous experiments with radium come to the forefront of my mind when I think of the periodic table.)

Thank you for commenting about the early reader stuff. My brain clouds over thinking of all the times I wound up reading "Biscuit" to my daughters. Woof.
 
#18 ·
Hi - this thread caught my attention because over the past few years I have observed that my dd prefers fiction every single time.

Earlier she did read quite a bit of nonfiction picture books, including Magic School Bus, but also a wide variety of picture books on various topics like the history of the radio, or desegregation of schools / buses, etc. And later she read Horrible Histries, Horrible Science, etc. But when it came to more serious nonfiction, beyond picture books and entertainment-style versions as in the Scholastic series, I didn't see her gobbling it up like she was doing with fiction.

(fwiw she also read Magic Tree House and I never had a problem with them though I hear many people dislike them. But she reads a great deal so I don't think the "incomplete sentences" affected her language skills.)

I do love literature and would not wish to live without it, and I think there are things to be learned from literature and art that we cannot learn from nonfiction. However I have been concerned by the drying up of her interest in non fiction and have nudged her towards it somewhat. It is not very easy to find well written juvenile non fiction as the standards for getting published seem quite low.

But what I wanted to say was that even though she doesn't read much non-fiction we have many discussions on topics that would fall in the category of non-fiction.

Similarly I think that there is a lot of scope for imaginative expression and language arts while playing with mud, walking in the woods, talking about dreams, etc. More to the heart of the matter, there is a lot of scope for imaginative expression while talking about nature, dinosaurs, stars, planets, trucks etc.

I remember dd being excited by the story of Kekule's dream.

I hadn't heard of Higgs Boson Plush Toys but the story of the higgs boson was told to me in a physics class in college way back when and it was a mighty thrilling story. I think there is drama, metaphor, character and suspense in history and science as well as in fiction.

I myself used to read tons of fiction as a child but somewhere around the college years the balance shifted to nonfiction and now I read 95% nonfiction, not because I don't love fiction but actually because nonfiction is easier to read in that even if I just read a chapter it is worthwhile. With fiction you have to finish the book. When did I last finish a book?

<sigh>
 
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#19 ·
I have to be really really motivated to finish a book. Game of Thrones, for example, kept me enthralled for about 6 months reading through all 5 books. I read every second I had, and towards the end I was tired, cranky, my house was a mess, I was unmotivated to do much else, so the end of the available books was a mighty relief, even though I enjoyed reading it. I *do* have time to read through a book, but clearly at this point the cost is pretty high. So, yeah, non-fiction hits the spot. I can definitely glean something from an unfinished book.
 
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#20 ·
Haha re the Game of Thrones...I sampled the first book and was put off right away...I don't find dead things creepy and I'm not into the graphic blood and gore scene, and that's of course how the first book starts. Also there were too many stories being introduced at once for my little pea brain to keep track of. But I kept noticing that people seemed to really like those wretched books, so I read the whole first book. That was a couple of years ago...I didn't have the need to read any more, but I kept going back and rereading parts, finding and assembling pieces of the author's puzzle. So then I read it to my 16-yo, and of course she wants to know the Rest of the Story. (Anyone remember Paul Harvey, the newsman/pundit? He was a staple of my childhood noons.) So I got the cheapest box I could find...it was supposed to be used, but it was still in mint shrink wrapped condition. And I have just finished the second book (halfway for daughter...I can inflect it correctly if I know what's ahead) and I REALLY do not like the sorcery and dead things stuff, and the incomparable savagery of the characters. I'm glad its only a story, but like the mouse transfixed by the cobra, I cannot look away. But enough of this...

To get back to Fiction for the Young...my eldest learned to read at 8.5 and soon could read almost anything, and did. Fact, fiction, etc. We went to the library and he'd bring home a dozen books of all kinds, spread them out on his bed, and dig in, down for the count...like for a day or so.

So he went to high school in the 9th grade and was enrolled in Honors English. One of the worst decisions in my career as a mom. (Both the school itself, and the class.) The English teacher had assembled (for a boy) a collection of the worst in fiction...mostly realistic "relationship" novels in which very bad things happened to the characters, who were all from historically oppressed classes. My son is extremely empathetic. The class started out well with an action packed short story "The Most Dangerous Game"...remember that one, the man who is shipwrecked on an island and then "hunted" by the owner of this little spot of paradise? Someone has to die. Anyway, that was close enough to a first person shooter that my son could recognize it as fantasy and knew that no one died, really. After that, it was an endless parade of grinding poverty, death, destruction, injustice, unfairness, sickness. Son loved writing the essay response for the short story...then dutifully slogged through the reading, which made him hate Honors English and writing more and more and more. I explained to the teacher that he was sensitive about that sort of thing...her response? "I'm not going to CODDLE him". Son did not read for pleasure for the remainder of his high school career. I don't think he does now, although he has learned to write well, but not fiction.

About a year after his experience with "relationship" novels, I found an article that said...that if you don't want to turn boys/young men off from writing and reading, don't try to build their character by forcing them to read this sort of thing, if they don't like it. (Girls often love them. I loved them. Middle loves them. A few years back Middle BEGGED me to take her to a vlog brothers promotional tour for the book "The Fault in Our Stars". I said it couldn't be done, five hundred miles, blah blah blah. So it turns out I had to be 40 miles from the event at about that time, so we caught a ride to town and rented a car to take us the last 40 miles (one of those things that looks like a throwback Pontiac van thing, no visibility at all) and we somehow got to the place with our skins intact, despite me yelling "I can't see anything! I can't see anything!", and she got to be with the largest group of nerds she'd ever experienced (1,100?), besides Ikkicon. The $25 entrance fee (it was good I'd got it on line; they were sold out) came with a 2 hour+ presentation, a book signing, and (of course) the opportunity to get other loot (for a price ;) ).

Deborah
 
#21 ·
So many good thoughts. I guess I read (and write) mostly non-fiction myself, come to think of it. And fiction is far worse for keeping me up way past my bedtime when I do read it. If it's a really good book, I can accept that. Otherwise, if I'm drawn along to see what happens next but don't end up loving it, I find I rather resent the time (compared to a sedate chapter-a-night reading of a nonfiction book where I end up learning something at the end) and feel like I should have, say, hung out with my husband instead.

I think the biographies-of-scientists might appeal to him, though they're not fiction. He certainly likes stories about the discovery of stuff (as in Cosmos, etc...). We did a bunch of those back when airplanes were his favorite thing. Marie Curie? That's a good idea. He's big into chemistry and radioactivity right now, and will tell you all about the discovery of ununoctium if you let him. But he's less patient with reading-aloud in general at the moment, now that he's discovered some other ways (through websites and videos) that he can voraciously consume certain types of information without waiting for me to read to him.

Tonight, he patiently waited through me reading a chapter of Little House on the Prairie to his sister, while he carefully arranged a large pile of old nails on the floor. Then, as soon as I was done, he burst out with a long demonstration of fission and fusion bombs, with the nails as props.

At least he has his sister as a moderating influence of sorts--they can play fairies together anyway.
 
#22 ·
I haven't read this whole thread. My thought on the importance of fiction GENERALLY, is that it is actually crucial. An important aspect of fiction is learning about the "other" - people who you will never know, never meet, never get another chance to truly understand, fiction is the manner of getting to walk at least an inch or two in their shoes. I think that actively engaging the imagination to understand the lifestyle of another, gives one the tools to comprehend the story of the "other". In a playground disagreement, understanding that a child who feels bad about themselves may lash out more - these are the tools of empathy, and fiction gives access to a way of thinking about this. Stephen Pinker's book The Better Angels of Our Nature discusses a hypothesis that it was actually the printing press and the resultant crappy literature telling the stories of the poor servants FROM FIRST PERSON PERSPECTIVE which drove many of the current humanitarian changes that happened in our society. It was a very interesting read.

That said. Would I FORCE a child to read books that a child had no interest in? No. If my kid liked planets and read about planets, I would let him follow his interests. But, I have done things like - with my child who was fascinated by turtles... I included a narrative work which told the perspective of a turtle starting out in the sand without its mother in the library books... If he read it... great (he did and really enjoyed it), if not... oh well. I also engage a lot in read alouds. These tend to be works of fiction. Geared to my kids' interests. We read, and if there is no interest after the first few chapters, we pick another book. I always have a readaloud fiction book on the go.

Another thing about literacy and fiction. Children who read fiction tend to achieve a much higher literacy level than those who don't. Doesn't mean that will be true for your child... and I think it actually has to do with the fact that "scientific" reading has more disjointed increase in levels. There are children's information books, written at between a grade 3 and 5 level... and then there are more adult books... written at a university level. Reading science often winds up being hard slogging with these leaps if the literacy level isn't quite there. Fiction, otoh, is written at a variety of levels - with a variety of maturity level at each literacy level.
 
#26 ·
Children who read fiction tend to achieve a much higher literacy level than those who don't.
Quite likely true. But if I was currently most concerned about maximizing literacy levels in my kid I'd probably not be here on this forum, and instead be insisting that he learn to read.

My kids are so young that any preferences they have are likely to change many times before they grow up. But there is a larger question here. How much should we work to nudge our kids to be the people we wish they were? And do parents even have that much power?

My little non-fiction geek is also the only kid in the gang of little kids I know that overwhelmingly chooses hanging out with the adults over running off with the other kids. I wish he liked playing with friends more. And he might well like them better when he's older. But I'm pretty sure I have about zero influence over that preference, or when he matures enough to become more empathetic, whether I like it or not.
 
#23 ·
I agree, to a point, LBD. I'm wondering, though, if the main reason that fiction is so beneficial to kids is in the "empathy education" realm, aren't there other things that could stand in for that? For instance, experiences like international travel, volunteer work and participating in caregiving and support of various vulnerable and disabled people, listening to stories via audiobooks, oral storytelling, podcasts, watching movies, TV shows, documentaries, and so on. I would tend to agree that in the 19th century literature was one of the best and only ways to expose the upper classes to the plight of the lower classes; however these days we have so many other media available to us, not to mention the extent to which travel and the crossing of class and cultural boundaries is now possible.

About novel-reading and levels of literacy attainment: I tend to believe those statistics, but I wonder if it isn't so much in the structure of the writing but rather the sheer number of hours that tend to be devoted to reading by novel aficionados. Not all my kids have been fiction-lovers throughout every phase of their lives, but when they are they tend to read for hours and hours at a time: maybe 10-30 hours a week. During their non-fiction-loving phases, it would have been unusual for them to read for more than an hour a day. When reading fiction, people seem far more likely to get sucked in for hours and hours, day after day, like SweetSilver's Game of Thrones experience above. Personally I don't think I've ever stayed up until 3 a.m. to finish a parenting book or a treatise on cultural trends, but I've definitely done that many times with novels! Just can't stop.....

Miranda
 
#24 ·
I actually completely think that other things could stand in for that. I think that it is something to bear in mind... as in a caveat - not as a rule. I currently wonder how much simple storytelling or movies could stand in... how essential is the "first person perspective" and what one would do to engage that "perspective taking" part of empathy. I tend to turn situations around for my kids... I hardly rely on fiction to be the end all be all... however, I do think even silly fiction has a place and shouldn't be shunned. Neither should it be "forced". I also agree about the hours of writing... but looking out there for more nonfiction fare for a child who tends to not like fiction, I do find that there is quite a different structure to the writing levels. Whole grade levels seem to be lacking in good nonfiction.
 
#25 ·
I was just reminded of a book I love, and from this author and illustrator there are several books in the same vein:

Zoo in the Sky

It discusses the stars and constellations and some scientific facts, but within the context of ancient myths connected with the animal constellations. Other books from the same author continue in a similar vein for "hero" constellations, zodiacal constellations, other books cover planets. The books are beautifully illustrated, the stars in the constellations are highlighted with colored foil, making this visually and texturally a brilliant book for children to look through themselves. The stories are brief, almost tantalizingly brief, for many it begs further research. To oblige, the illustrator, Christina Balit, has some of the best mythology books in print, her compilation of Hercules myths is particularly good (Hercules is introduced in the book on hero constellations).

While these books can definitely classified under "astronomy", they can also be historical and fictional. Highly recommended.
 
#28 ·
And it's a matter of which things to nudge and which things to let go of. I don't treat everything in our lives the same way, naturally. Right now most of my energy "nudging" (ahem) is focused on my girls' relationship with each other. The issue of fiction vs. non-, for me seems like a non-issue, relative to my other challenges. My youngest daughter, especially, reads almost zero fiction.

Granted, it is an interesting question. But once I start looking at it in the grand scheme of things, it falls apart for me. What exactly is a "higher literacy level"? Does that mean "reads more books"? If it's just that, my husband would beat me hands down, feet tied together and blindfolded. But does it really mean he is more literate than I? He has trouble putting together a decent sounding sentence when forced to, let alone spell it. I am the Word Nerd in the house. My pronunciation is better, I remember references better, I can read aloud fluently and casually. I can write actual essays, and for more than 2 years honed my self-editing skills on a gardening column in our local newsletter. But I just read the Hunger Games, my first... anything... in months.

What is literacy exactly, if it's more than the ability to read and write?
 
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#29 ·
Higher literacy level meant comprehension. Being able to understand text, having a rich vocabulary etc. As I stated earlier, none of these factors would make me FORCE my child to read fiction. But, this is something that I have had to consider: I have a 9 year old who is very much a "technical reader"... he is actually still avidly interested in research style books... but there is now slim pickings that he is actually interested in reading... he has some reading challenges... finds most of the books that he can read too babyish... and without the real meat of information that he would like... but, the next level up is far too advanced, and he struggles and is extremely "bored" really quickly. Literacy gives him access to his interests. I do read with him, we explore Wikipedia... but there is something to that independent finding of stuff that is yours. So. I am not talking about pressuring children to be "perfect" readers. I have a child who is currently in exactly the situation I explained. It is especially difficult because there is hardly a wealth of materials on his preferred area of interest. I do try and seduce my children to fiction, however. And... I would hope that reading fiction would help him bridge the literacy gap... He is very happy to be read fiction. On his own, he pretty much invariably selects a research style book. And now... he pretty much selects nothing.
 
#30 ·
I pretty much have selected nothing for weeks and months. It happens. My criteria for a good read is high these days, so I often don't even bother. I get annoyed that I waste my time if I'm 3 chapters into a book and it doesn't spark an interest. Consequently, I have been unmotivated to try too hard. It comes and goes. I haven't felt adventurous in a very long time, and two of the best reads, uninitiated by anyone but myself, have been two excellent books on the English language, its history and use: The Mother Tongue, and Holy Sh*t. That's about the extent of it, and *if* I read anything, it's been popular books, such as GoT and Hunger Games, etc.
 
#31 ·
I suppose I should have clarified. He WANTS to read something about his chosen subject matter... there is a disconnect there. I actually do feel a bit sad for him. Not that he doesn't constantly have a book on the go... but that when he wants to sit around and look for something to read, he "can't"...
 
#32 ·
I know I am the one who mentioned "Magic Tree House" and on the whole, I agree that they aren't meant to be "read alouds". I agree with all the reasons listed. However, the reason I suggested it as a read aloud was as a method of introducing it to the OP's son vs just "having fiction on the shelf". It was what popped in my head first when I was trying to think of a fiction book for children that also had facts. My youngest is liking them right now so it was on my mind. I don't think that just having fiction on the shelf is the same as providing exposure.

Amy
 
#33 ·
I agree about just having something on the shelf. I've had stuff on the shelf for *years* that hasn't been touched, though I have these little moments I can pull something out, if it's a short term commitment like poetry. Doesn't mean I won't put stuff on the shelves, but it doesn't get much mileage.

It's been a different story with the library. There's something wonderful about looking through a shelf full of books. "Where's the nature section?" (And we make very clear she means the adult section, thank you) and suddenly we have 20 books to bring home. Even my pickier oldest has brought home some gems, usually from the graphic novel section.

But I will say that my girls love to listen to fiction for the most part. My oldest likes long books (think Harry Potter series, etc.) and compilations (one book I'm thinking of is an odd collection of how famous people died!) Youngest likes the shorter stories my husband reads at bedtime. They really love history, and for some reason US Presidents top the list: "President's Stuck in a Bathtub" and "George Washington's Teeth" are the favorites.
 
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