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May 2015 Unschooling Thread

4K views 47 replies 11 participants last post by  transpecos 
#1 ·
Free-for-all unschooling and whole-life-unschooling stuff here!

Seems quieter here recently. Probably a good sign ... spring busy-ness, lots going on.

Miranda
 
#3 ·
It's the like the good old days here today.

Three kids, a brand new Raspberry Pi 2 kit, ds's laptop with his current build of his Deathworm computer game, a Python coding tutorial window, a wood stove with a cozy fire, everyone snacking on the banana muffins Fiona just made. It's a really nice energy. Ds has been back from college for a few days but this is the first day of having everyone together at home. Planning a BBQ for dinner and a family movie night ... Searching for Sugar Man is queued up on Netflix. (We're on severely limited bandwidth here now, with no way around it, so we have to ration our online activity. Canadian rural internet sucks.)

Miranda
 

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#4 ·
We have minimal bandwidth as well. Just using the word makes me laugh, as there doesn't seem to be any width to it at all. 3 tabs open is about all this computer can handle, maybe a little more if we upgraded but there simply isn't much point as far as that width goes because eventually computer speed is going to butt heads with our limitations beyond the router. One of these years, the way information is transported to our house might make things better, but there are zero plans for any infrastructure upgrades anywhere near here.

I just haven't felt like writing here, not that I haven't had time. The girls have been busy with chickens (of course). We have baby goldfish in one pond that they have been transferring to others, and plenty of frogs in a different pond and that has captured their attention almost as much as the chickens. DD8 has been crazy-self-motivated, practicing cartooning by copying characters from Garfield and attempting to pick locks (thank you Mythbusters). Both girls have different but very good artistic sense. DD10 is more careful and does beautiful line drawings with ink pen, dd8 is more carefree and prolific, as always refreshingly unfettered by any sense of perfectionism.

Public presentations went well, and their delivery, of course, impressed the judges but these know my girls by now and were less bowled-over than they have in the past. Very good effort by both, and it was nice this year both that their ideas were fully their own, they listened to the few suggestions we had (including correcting spelling once I pointed out that not only could it earn her a red ribbon instead of blue but that it would distract from her excellent delivery). We stayed to watch our other club members do their presentations and left to drop off our animals (one chicken and a bunch of isopods) to head to Olympia's Procession of the Species.

Yesterday was gorgeous weather as could be for our local Beltane celebration at the farm over our hill. I made 3 dozen bantam-sized deviled eggs and sold another 6 dozen eggs. We brought the girls' bikes to ride, including an 'old' one (practically brand new, actually) that dd8 really wanted to gift to her friend. Maypoles, rolling down hills, friends to run with. So much fun. DH and the girls left early for home while I got to stay and socialize, which was a treat for me. I've given dh so many nights to stay and catch up with friends, it felt nice to have the favor returned.

Woke up early today for work. Tomorrow all day at home, hopefully to clean up downstairs. DD10 is complaining it looks more like a storage closet than a basement, and I agree. It has been low priority, and when I've had time the girls were busy down there and I hate to interrupt any time they are getting along.
 
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#5 ·
We have minimal bandwidth as well.
And here I thought the rural US was better, lol.

We have a plan which is no longer linked up on the provider's website because they like to pretend they no longer have service this limited anywhere. It's described as being for "Light internet use, such as accessing email and occasional casual web surfing." :lol We can live with slow, but the volume limits are the killer. We have five or six power users all with laptops and mobile devices competing for the same small aliquot we had almost a decade ago.

They do let us go over, but there's a pay-for-every-GB surcharge which is extremely expensive and is designed simply to pressure people into buying bigger more cost-effective plans -- we could easily run up several hundred dollars in charges just using what is available in a plan that costs less than $5/month extra. But they can't sell us those plans, because of no infrastructure. We also pay for internet in town, where we have a considerably better plan (for just over half the price!) so the two younger girls and I try to do everything we can there. But for weekends and summer... oy!

Miranda
 
#6 ·
Moving, one Corollaload at a a time. Today: husband and I got to town (late) for our quartet rehearsal, now that his left elbow is allowing it. We've dropped down to a lower level technically by missing almost a year of rehearsals. (Unfortunately, our cellist is going to graduate school in Tucson in the fall, so we may be playing trios with the second violinist as the cellist.) After, we went to drop of a shelf full of camping supplies at the house: a revolutionary war "wedge" tent, various tarps, and the tent we go camping here in, completely zipped in: no scorpions, spiders, snakes can get it. Also the stands for the two speakers that we used to use for contradance gigs. We could sell them, husband said. No, I have plans for them, I said. (The whole outfit is stands, speakers, a small sound board, a bunch of cords, and microphones that clip on our violin bridges.)

Husband detected a sewage smell at our house and is afraid that the radon remediation damaged a sewer pipe or drain, so he and Son just borrowed a ladder to go sniff it out. (I'm claiming that they're getting whiffs from the toilet vent, but no one believes me. Unfortunately, husband is almost ALWAYS right about this stuff...he has enough extra IQ points to figure this stuff out.) Update: he just called: the radon exhaust is sewage free. So, no sewage leak. And no rain there, but a massive storm off to the southeast that they are enjoying.

I spent an hour or so this morning working on Youngest's room (she had her job this weekend, and is house sitting in the far town, 5 cats and 2 dogs & assorted duties until next Saturday, and then works that weekend, so will not be back here. So work I had hoped to share (moving and cleaning) will be up to me this week. (She seems to have low endurance for what I think needs to be done anyway.)

So, logging off for now...

Deborah
 
#7 ·
so we may be playing trios with the second violinist as the cellist.
If you can be a violin/violin/viola trio, I have arranged a ton of music for that instrumentation, and you're welcome to any of it ... I can easily export it into pdf format. You can hear an assortment of it in this video of the kids from a few years back. Everything except the Mozart and Dvorak is my arrangements (and the Dvorak is an original vn/vn/vla trio, available at IMSLP.org). Let me know if you can use any of it.



Miranda
 
#9 ·
Social life. I have a sociable 12-year-old-going-on-15 who has almost no real social life. She has three online friends she's quite close to, but she only sees them in real life for a week or two every summer. She has group activities (choir, dance, violin, gymnastics, parkour, coding club) but the social contact she gets at those things doesn't extend beyond the classes themselves. She doesn't pine for real-life buddies to hang out with, not yet, but we can both see that unless she begins to find people to hang out with she's going to get more and more lonely as the years go by. We have plans to change our umbrella school enrolment next year that may help her start to find a bit of a real-life 'tribe,' but who knows whether that will pan out.

Anyway, guess what? There's a party at E___'s place before the ballet performance on Friday! I imagine it'll be all about hair and stage make-up and girly stuff. But I'm thrilled, because this is the first time that there has been a significant social event that has sprung out of ballet class. This is a group of 8 girls who are remarkably well-matched and committed to dance, and they will likely continue to dance together over the years. Fiona likes them and gets along well with them. All but one of them go to the big middle school in Nelson, though, she inhabits only a very small portion of their shared lives and inevitably feels like the outsider, the homeschooler, the out-of-towner, the newbie to dance. So I think this will be really great for her to actually hang out a bit.

Also, I sometimes worry that her virtual / summer-music friends are so much older. They're 14, 15 and 18 and while they're nice girls and they support each other in healthy ways, the stuff the other girls are dealing with, which is typical high-school-romantic-and-sexual-drama stuff, is not what I think Fiona's entire social world should be filled with. She has a good perspective on it, and is developing some very sensible opinions about it all. But ... she needs other types of friendships too. The ballet girls are all 12 and 13, and still not part of that teen world.

I posted some video from their rehearsal yesterday here. Not bad for a 12 months of ballet classes, I think!



Today we're home. Dh called with a message from our downstream neighbours saying the water flow for our collective system had stopped. The neighbours were already furiously trying to eke a little bit of the trickle into their reservoir. Our reservoir was 3/4 full but had no inflow. They were convinced there was some sort of major slide up the mountain that had redirected the creek. While they kept working on trying to capture the trickle, I took my dog and walked up the mountain. I used a stick to clear a clog at the upper intake. There was a giant sucking sound as the 6" pipe cleared and hundreds of gallons a minute began flowing. Boy were the people at the bottom surprised! (They hadn't gone up the mountain because they couldn't find the guy with the key to the gate, and therefore couldn't take their tractor up, and they assumed it would be the sort of landslide-type issue that would need a machine to deal with it. Bah.) Anyway, I felt like a hero, using my stick to restore running water to 5 households.

The nettles are starting to sprout up by the water intake, so I'll have to make another trip up there next week with bags and gloves. I'm thinking nettle pesto will be worth trying.

Miranda
 
#12 ·
May is flying by! The warm weathe ris here and we all just want to be outside. I've gotten a good start on my garden since most of what I plant is cold tolerant. The kids have all helped a little, running in and out to pull a few weeds, plant a few seeds or just dig a hole.
I'm working on the end of year portfolio for DS8 and DS5. It's a bit early but we have our first camping trip of the year planned for the last week of May. I'll need the week before that to pack and plan out meals & snacks. We're almost there already. I'm really looking forward to summer to do some real deschooling. The kids are starting too see how they are learning all the time (so hopefully they'll stop telling everyone that they're "not really doing any school" after telling them we homeschool).DS 3 and DD1 of course don't draw any such distinctions. Working on the portfolios make me wonder a bit on how I'm going to do the portfolio's next year. While we were never exclusive workbook users it's so much easier to pull out 10 workbook pages throughout the year in each subject than to fish around in all the kept papers/drawing and try to find something that relates to each subject.
Well I've got the baby down napping so I need to work on my to do list.
 
#14 ·
An update from the traveling family here -- the unschoolers camping out in a school in Shishmaref Alaska, where it's distinctively not very much like spring yet. Nearly infinite daylight, but nearly infinite snow and ice as well. Taking a lazy day, as we're camped out here for the weekend.

We've camped out in schools in all the villages, which has been a rather interesting view on school and school culture that we don't usually get. Certainly cemented my decision to keep going the way we are -- even many of the teachers seem to agree. Of course, if you had to read off a script to 6 yr olds for 90 minutes of math instruction, and then theoretically had to do the same for every other grade level in your tiny class until the time limits make it literally impossible... I don't envy them their jobs.

My 6 yr old has come to be a super-comfortable cross country skier, and just skied the entire 75 miles between the last village and here (in 11 days or so). The 4 yr old still prefers to walk or ride in the sled. Both of them become amazingly resourceful on these types of trips. They can play together forever on a single piece of driftwood or a sand patch melted out on the side of a dune. In the tent, the 6 yr old has embarked on a major knot-tying project, while the 4 yr old prefers to draw in her tiny notebook with a plain pencil -- I'm quite amazed at the detail and control she has now. We recite and memorize and create poetry, watch for animal tracks, visit seal holes in the ice. Talk about all kinds of things, imaginary and real. It'll be about 3 more weeks from here until the end of the trip, then a few months at home before the next one.
 
#16 ·
Mckittre!!
So glad to hear from you, your family is remarkable.
Miranda, my 17 year old is best friends with a 13 YO, and a 14 YO.
They have known each other most of their lives, and are often more like siblings.
My teen is an introvert and very happy to be alone pursuing her own interests, yet can flow easily between her different peer groups, (school, sports, home). Fiona sounds very mature and maybe her summer friends will continue to be a good peer group for her despite the age differences. It certainly works with my DD.

But definetly peers and social are a concern here with Little, and I'm finding it ironic how offended I was in September when the Dr said she was concerned for his social, and I assured her that unsocializing homeschoolers was a myth, yet 8 months later here I am concerned about his social. Good grief.

Anna
 
#18 ·
Dance performances are finished; the party was awesome, and she already misses her dance friends. She's hoping to hang out with some of them over the summer. They're all in touch on Facebook and Snapchat.

The next morning there was the final gymnastics meet of the year. At the last meet they mis-recorded her scores and her overall award was mistakenly announced by her beloved former coach as Bronze. The mistake was corrected the next week, but it was a bit of a bummer. This time she got four gold scores, an overall award of Gold, and had a chance to chat away for a while with her former coach who was so lovely and proud and supportive. It was an awesome way to end.

Yesterday we did the trip to the big city to pick up her oldest sister at the airport. Some fun conversations in the car. A bit of shopping to kill time. Had to overnight somewhat unexpectedly due to flight delays. Got home in time to go to parkour today.

Feel like we haven't spent a proper day at home in ages. We're both really tired. Tomorrow will be a Nothing Day. Looking forward to it!

Miranda
 
#19 ·
Yep...I've been moving, a carload at a time. Daughter is in the house already and only been back a couple of times...I'm going to need her help, hoping she can come tomorrow. In a few minutes my neighbor is going to come look at a desk passed to us by some of the last people to move "off the mountain"; I'm wondering if I can foist off this big old dresser too...it actually belongs on site, so has been making the rounds! And that exercise machine...have tried to GIVE away to two people, don't want to go to the trouble of selling in town. It won't fit into my car, for one thing! Molly the remaining catlet (two are in town with Youngest now) has become a lot more friendly without her sibs. I thought I had a lesson in town today, but the mom agreed to shift it (three of my students are out of town this week) so Friday will be my only lesson day. Okay, dog alarming...must answer door!

Deborah
 
#21 ·
My 9yr is sitting in the rocking chair looking at a book!!! He is really working hard on his reading. :grin:

My 6yr asked this weekend to learn how to knit. We are friends with a great knitter. So we are setting that up. He is also working on reading. He is doing so well.

OH! And brownie making. We have lots and lots of brownies. Please come over and have some. :wink: They smell so good.

My 3yr is working on Starfall everyday. It is great to watch her. She is working in the math section. I love it.


Me- I think that I going to try to learn to knit too.

:grin: for working at your own pace.

Here is a funny little poem:

Multiplication is vexation;
Division is as bad;
The rule of Three does puzzle me,
And practice drives me mad.

Mother Goose(? I think)
 
#23 · (Edited)
It's a long weekend in Canada (Victoria Day, or May Days, as it's celebrated in our community ... just a May long weekend, really). And we're heading into our final term's reporting to our DL program and I. Am. So. Done.

The whole business of dealing with an umbrella program that doesn't get what we're doing and doesn't seem to have the energy and interest to try to understand on our terms has led me somewhere I'm not entirely proud of. This weekend I devised a way of satisfying their anal little school minds by misleading them about what we're doing. They want to be able to tick off little boxes in their school record, and so I talked to Fiona about how we could present what we're doing in such a way that they can in good conscience fill in those boxes.

I asked Fiona to do a few online quizzes from the Grade 8 science curriculum, and to do them twice if necessary, taking screen shots once she scores over 80%. She hasn't studied the material, but it's so lame and so focused on terminology rather than the actual concepts, that I think this is as accurate an "assessment" as the material warrants. I asked her to do a couple of Duolingo French lessons so that she can honestly say "Yes, I've continued with French using Duolingo, and I'm also picking up some French phrases at ballet." Tick that second-language box off. I got her to generate some writing samples and do a typing speed test. The sort of "evidence" I've refused to provide in the past because it's so contrary to our unschooling, but at this point I think it's best to just to cough up a bit of garbage to minimize any issues.

I said to Fiona "Look, they're not actually interested in understanding what and how you're learning, so a truly honest picture is only going to confuse them and make their jobs harder. They know you're learning. They just don't understand how, and therefore they can't figure out how to report on it. So let's just jump through their little hoops, give them stuff they can write down and be done with it. Yes, it's misleading in a way, but the bottom line is that you're learning well: you know it, I know it and they know it too. They know you well enough to see that you're a really capable and knowledgable kid. Let's just make it easy to get this over with."

Blech. This is the first time in 10 years of DL program enrolment that I've felt this way. Almost certain we can find a better-fitting program next year, but if not we always have the option of homeschooling independently with no oversight.

Miranda
 
#30 ·
Thank you! I wouldn't have guessed originally that a poem about multiplication could be so old. I'm sure it was a rare class of children that could even understand what this poem meant originally.

A short summary: dd10 has been picking books up for herself-- some that we had introduced ages ago as fodder for reading together, others she discovered herself or because dh happened to pick them up. She is enjoying Lemony Snicket's All the Wrong Questions series and Beast Quest.

We went to Seattle's Burke Museum this weekend, the natural history (and local arts) museum at the UW. They had a special Girl Scout day focused on minerals and gems and fossils. It was busy, but since we signed up for a time slot it was far less busy than on any typical Saturday. I think as unschoolers I tend to put more weight into open, child-led exploration. But my girls get so much of this that I think more curated experiences such as this can be wonderful now and then, and it was today.

At the end, the girls got to 'dig' for minerals that they got to keep. DD10 found a polished chunk of jasper, dd8 a geode with quartz crystals. Both bought another little chunk at the gift shop-- amethyst and pyrite. As we were leaving, dd8 piped up and said she was changing what she is interested in (animals, I guess) to minerals and now she has created a little display on her bedroom window with all her treasures. (Before you conjure up a glimmering collection, it also includes a pork rib and other 'interesting' artifacts!)

I am reading Terry Pratchett once again. Years ago I inhaled Discworld novels, so by the time I hit "Going Postal" I was bored to some degree and dropped it as not one of his better ones. Then baby, then... well... Now I have been wasting my time (not wasting exactly, but ignoring what I've been needing to focus on) and setting myself something specific to do is a first step in reconnecting with reality around me rather than being so caught up in my thoughts and struggles. I'm glad I waited, though, because his writing seems fresh again, and he is-- "was", but still "is" -- one of my favorite authors.

Next task is to finish a second mitten. I did one last year and it was mild winter and I had zero motivation, but I am going to finish the project after this book. I tend to have too many projects, so it's going to go like this for a while.
 
#26 ·
The push and pull of work and homeschooling and life demands again. YAY (sarcasm).

Nik is really enjoying the guitar, he is now avidly practicing and we have already had a few pieces that caused some anxiety - so we broke out the list of how to practice and things are going really really well. The piano we got is also working out fabulously and I am relearning to play, too. AAAANND I am just about done knitting the dress for Zoe. Only about 8 more rows and finishing.

Last Thursday, though, I went through our folder at the board and came across the boys' interim report cards. Blech. I HATE report cards with a passion, especially the anxiety they induce in me. Because we are very child led, there isn't a lot of output. Well... and also because I feel pulled in every direction TBH. But, seeing the crappy numbers on there - even in the areas where we handed in stuff way above grade level.. ugh. Makes me want to go off aligned just so we don't have this stress next year. But, half the funding. That will actually translate into much less doing what they want to do.... sigh.

Also, we are getting our house a bit set up to start having regular dinner parties. Just having an open invite to everyone we know, first group to RSVP gets in. Just to keep us staying connected. All we need is a few more chairs and the basement cleaned....
 
#27 ·
Last Thursday, though, I went through our folder at the board and came across the boys' interim report cards. Blech.
Is there any option to not see the report cards? Is that a promise you could make to yourself? Would that work with the board? I've asked of our DL program that we not be given report cards; they agreed that so long as they notify me each time that a copy is available to me, they will not send it out. Of course, despite my request they accidentally sent the first one this year through the mail, addressed to Fiona. :frown:

She opened it, all excited to be getting mail. Thankfully it was just in narrative form, no grades, due to the teachers' strike which had only just resolved that term. Since then they've been good though.

Miranda
 
#29 ·
We went to the local school to register DS7 for homeschooling today. Disorganized. They knew we would be by today. They lost our file! Not to mention that they had no idea that we needed to re-register. So, here I have to fill out the form from scratch. Meanwhile DS7 was proclaiming loud and clear for everyone to hear that he did not want to go to school - oh no - not him. (This was embarrassing).

I asked him why he did not want to go and he answered that they just make you sit in a room to listen to someone and that you can't work on what you are busy with. OK. Well, I asked, how about your friends? Wouldn't it be nice to play with your friends at school? No, that does not trump his freedom either. He plays with them after school. So, homeschooling it is. We're open for him to go to school if he so wishes, but his plan is pretty clear.

The other day, an acquaintance asked us in all honesty if a child could learn everything he needed via homeschooling. My DP and I looked at each other for a second and gave a convincing, honest 'yes'! That was such a cool moment.

In the meantime, DS is not doing much that looks like curriculum, but we did find out today that loofahs grow on vines and that sponges in the ocean are pretty cool creatures. That falls in the biology bracket, I suppose. Yay, youtube!
 
#31 ·
I think one of my disconnects with homeschooling has been that the efforts I have put into it have largely been disregarded, or loved so much but always with the idea of "mom, keep doing this for us" rather than taking something interesting by the reins and allowing me to let go. Both have been disheartening and exhausting. It is hard to find a balance. The girls are not available to me when I have the energy, and want my participation when I don't. I can't find them to share in their lives when they are in a good mood (or don't want me to) and when they are in bad mood they must have me and if I am in the middle of something I love I almost always have to decide between fighting for it or setting it aside to deal with the crisis. My efforts to keep chaos at bay must be continual or it gets sucked back in and even one day set aside for a visit with family in the city can set me back for weeks. We can't have family meetings because "when the sun's a-shinin', why, it don't leak!" And when it's raining, well, that's a crappy time to discuss anything. We are so in between everything it can make any progress impossible.

I am not a fighter, and this has been such a struggle with me, so I disconnect and find something soothing, as far as that goes which isn't far. I have some good friends, some good support, but sometimes those friends need space to focus on their own struggles.

I'm trying, I'm trying.
 
#33 ·
I'm in one of those moods where I am evaluating our choice to unschool. Notwithstanding, I am committed to not sending him to the local school. DP is super easy in regards to not schooling and this stems from him having been to 'school prison' (as he calls it) a.k.a. boarding school. But still, evaluation time! These moods come about once in a while and this one is due to the fact that our neighbors are gushing over how well their nephew is doing in Kindergarten (as they hint at their disapproval of our choice). As well, we visited the school to register for HS and the kids who know DS7 were asking questions. Here are some thoughts/ruminations.

So, OK, discipline. The nephew of our neighbors next door is being taught 'discipline' - sit down and learn kind of discipline. Hmmm, is discipline important? Well, yes, I think it is. It is how DP manages to earn enough money for us to live. It's how I got through university with ease and joy and trust that I could manage my time properly. And, right now, there is little 'discipline' that we insist on with DS.

There are the things like cleaning up when you spill something. Get dressed before you leave the yard. Brush your teeth, and the like. Looking at our various family members, I can say that we all exhibit a great talent for discipline in our pursuits. Does that come on its own? At what age? Does this need to be instilled? Does DS show seven-year old discipline in being really gung-ho in getting his projects done and finished (for which he often employs the help of us parents or neighbors)? Or am I confusing this with drive. What does discipline look like for an unschooler?

Languages - I know that there is a critical time for humans to learn languages very easily. And the window is closing soon. I am all for him learning a third language. One that he will need, given his inclinations. But he protests. So, I am debating. Do I veer off the unschooling track and have him learn this anyway just because I am older and wiser and know a little more about how the world ticks? Same with math. He's going to need it given his interests.

I mean, I did want to teach him music notation and I was romanticizing about teaching him how to play a musical instrument. Ditto with dancing. It's nice to have rhythm. But DS shows great discomfort when music is around; and, as passionate as I am about dance, how dispassionate he is. So, OK. That's fine (but I still hold out a little, teeny, tiny hope that one day, we may play music together as a family, or that we may go to a dance recital together; hope springs eternal).


One rationale that is presented as to why kids need to go to school is that they will meet people who are unlike them or their parents/family. They will meet kids who are special needs and get to be accepting of this. OK. Point taken. But I think that he is learning this just fine. My best friend has a mental handicap and DS experiences frequently how she is struggling to make her way in the world. He learns how difficult it is for her to keep down a job (even for a week) or keep friends. And, giving as he is, he brainstorms with her where she can work next so that she can have some extra income. He learns that she is always welcome and can eat here even if she is difficult to be with at times. He learns that we need to take care of each other. As well, our neighborhood is very diverse in its make-up. DS has many acquaintances here and they are from all backgrounds. Ah, I don't know why I even think about this. We live in an international hub and there is so much diversity. It's difficult not to meet people who are radically different from yourself or your family.

Curriculum. OK, I took a peek. Money counting with bills and coins is on the roster for the grade he is in. Counting is a no-no with DS now. Here we have a different approach anyway. We have been talking a lot about money, but in a different way. We talk about what loans are and how much they cost. We talk about mortgages and how much they cost. We talk about credit cards. We talk about the advantages and disadvantages of these products. We talk about stocks. These kinds of things. Again, these are spin-offs of talks he hears between me and DP about some people in our lives who are struggling, or not. I figure, first you get the principle down as to how this society works in regards to money, and the rest will follow. It's the principle that I was never taught at school and that I think should have been taught.


--


The weather is nice. DS has been biking on his new bike around the block talking with neighbors and the mailman. He's very proud of his new helmet. He's had a nice play at the playground today. He wants to bake bread tomorrow. He's been watching the Pink Panther and is loving it. I've been trying to coax him to work on reading, veering off the unschooling track on this one. But for the most part, I still read stories to him, and rhymes. DS is insisting that he knows everything already and does not need to know more. How true that is. I thought that too when I was 7. One day, while my mom was cooking, I twirled around like a Sufi dancer on our Persian carpet in the living room as I was saying words out loud. When I was done, I went to my mom and told her that I knew all the words in the world.
 
#36 ·
Wow - really interesting thoughts Mazamet, I have been thinking of this post since I first read it... Here are my thoughts on your thoughts. ;)

So, OK, discipline. The nephew of our neighbors next door is being taught 'discipline' - sit down and learn kind of discipline. Hmmm, is discipline important? Well, yes, I think it is. It is how DP manages to earn enough money for us to live. It's how I got through university with ease and joy and trust that I could manage my time properly. And, right now, there is little 'discipline' that we insist on with DS.
Regarding discipline - I think if school actually TAUGHT discipline we would not have such an issue with adhd kids who cannot sit still in class. Schools REQUIRE discipline, but their "teaching" of it appears to be mainly having kids sit and get homework. It is quite possible that disciplined kids are disciplined DESPITE school.

I think discipline is often something that is acquired naturally then reinforced and gradually developed. There is some interesting feedback in that kids who are frequently in a state of fear actually wind up having the kind of discipline referred to here (consistency, calmness, following through on promises) impaired. So, a stressed school environment where a child is a misfit can actually exacerbate poor discipline if the home is a calm, safe environment. Also - many elementary teachers think busywork teaches discipline. I love the idea of teachers having the same child for 6 years like in Finland, because I think the busywork benefits discipline idea would be blasted out of the water if you were the teacher who had to deal with your overly busyworked child 3 years later...

There are the things like cleaning up when you spill something. Get dressed before you leave the yard. Brush your teeth, and the like. Looking at our various family members, I can say that we all exhibit a great talent for discipline in our pursuits. Does that come on its own? At what age? Does this need to be instilled? Does DS show seven-year old discipline in being really gung-ho in getting his projects done and finished (for which he often employs the help of us parents or neighbors)? Or am I confusing this with drive. What does discipline look like for an unschooler?
So, I touched on some of my thoughts above. I am in and out of the unschooling game... so here is where I have less real life knowledge. But, my idea is that loving, caring relationships are what teach discipline. Cleaning up, I talk about the consequences of not cleaning up, and how it simply transfers the work to someone else. Pitching in makes peoples lives easier. This kind of discussion works for me, because we have built up a solid foundation where we care about each other. My kids who respond well to this are 12, 9, 9 and my two year old does two. My 4 year old? Not so much. But I trust that it will come.

Languages - I know that there is a critical time for humans to learn languages very easily. And the window is closing soon. I am all for him learning a third language. One that he will need, given his inclinations. But he protests. So, I am debating. Do I veer off the unschooling track and have him learn this anyway just because I am older and wiser and know a little more about how the world ticks? Same with math. He's going to need it given his interests.
I guess there is a window for languages - for becoming a native or near native speaker (that is about 1 year old for native and about 9 for near native (near native means pretty much no accent))... but people can become pretty damned proficient without being a near native. So. Languages has to do with interest - even at 9. Kids uninterested in the target language develop high proficiency often at 9, but maintain an accent. My son DOES want to learn French. I did put him in French immersion for that. But, he also wanted to go to school. If he wanted French without going to school, there is Rosetta stone and exchanges. I learned Russian in high school, and it was not taught in my school - I found outside school resources for it - they exist.

I mean, I did want to teach him music notation and I was romanticizing about teaching him how to play a musical instrument. Ditto with dancing. It's nice to have rhythm. But DS shows great discomfort when music is around; and, as passionate as I am about dance, how dispassionate he is. So, OK. That's fine (but I still hold out a little, teeny, tiny hope that one day, we may play music together as a family, or that we may go to a dance recital together; hope springs eternal).
I am not sure that a child completely disinterested in music would learn in even in a music school environment. One can lead a child to the learning trough, but cannot make them drink. And, learning resistance is hell to overcome.

One rationale that is presented as to why kids need to go to school is that they will meet people who are unlike them or their parents/family. They will meet kids who are special needs and get to be accepting of this. OK. Point taken. But I think that he is learning this just fine. My best friend has a mental handicap and DS experiences frequently how she is struggling to make her way in the world. He learns how difficult it is for her to keep down a job (even for a week) or keep friends. And, giving as he is, he brainstorms with her where she can work next so that she can have some extra income. He learns that she is always welcome and can eat here even if she is difficult to be with at times. He learns that we need to take care of each other. As well, our neighborhood is very diverse in its make-up. DS has many acquaintances here and they are from all backgrounds. Ah, I don't know why I even think about this. We live in an international hub and there is so much diversity. It's difficult not to meet people who are radically different from yourself or your family.
Well, I do find that my kids when homeschooled gravitate more towards kids who are like them, and when schooled, they watch people who are not like them in sometimes fascination... and sometimes become friends. So. I find merit to this argument. But, I also find that the age levelling of school undermines this argument substantially. So... there is that.

Curriculum. OK, I took a peek. Money counting with bills and coins is on the roster for the grade he is in. Counting is a no-no with DS now. Here we have a different approach anyway. We have been talking a lot about money, but in a different way. We talk about what loans are and how much they cost. We talk about mortgages and how much they cost. We talk about credit cards. We talk about the advantages and disadvantages of these products. We talk about stocks. These kinds of things. Again, these are spin-offs of talks he hears between me and DP about some people in our lives who are struggling, or not. I figure, first you get the principle down as to how this society works in regards to money, and the rest will follow. It's the principle that I was never taught at school and that I think should have been taught.
Sigh. Curriculum at school is great if you fit the curriculum. If it doesn't fit you... well. That can kill a child. I actually think that schooled/unschooled/homeschooled the curriculum is really simply an opportunity to learn. And the curriculum at school is one way to get there. But... I also wonder if we are simply assuming that the middle of the achievement bell curve is the developmentally normal thing, because we normally put our kids in school. To me, I would think that actually unschooling is the developmentally normal thing, that schooling should be compared to... Not exactly what you are saying. But, I find that the curriculum thing is more about feeling pressure to fit into the box that society gives, rather than anything essential to development.

Thanks for the food for thought.... I'd love to hear yours back?
 
#34 ·
Seven is that age, I find, when kids have so much confidence in what they know. This used to bug me, too, but that stage when they are resistant to any input because they know all the words in the world has passed for us. at 8.5 and 10, they are starting to get a wide view of the world, are excited to find some knew corner of knowledge they haven't explored, they seem to be more open to learning from me.

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Yesterday the girls made boxes for each of their new chicks with cardboard and shoeboxes and start to finish, these fancy boxes were their own (I did a smidgeon of work with the box cutter). Both are still reading their books-- dd8 is reading through Mother Goose and has a newfound sense of humor, dd10 reading a cookbook and dreaming (though, frustratingly, never getting to the point where she makes a list grumblegrumblegrumble.)
 
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