Wow - really interesting thoughts Mazamet, I have been thinking of this post since I first read it... Here are my thoughts on your thoughts.
So, OK, discipline. The nephew of our neighbors next door is being taught 'discipline' - sit down and learn kind of discipline. Hmmm, is discipline important? Well, yes, I think it is. It is how DP manages to earn enough money for us to live. It's how I got through university with ease and joy and trust that I could manage my time properly. And, right now, there is little 'discipline' that we insist on with DS.
Regarding discipline - I think if school actually TAUGHT discipline we would not have such an issue with adhd kids who cannot sit still in class. Schools REQUIRE discipline, but their "teaching" of it appears to be mainly having kids sit and get homework. It is quite possible that disciplined kids are disciplined DESPITE school.
I think discipline is often something that is acquired naturally then reinforced and gradually developed. There is some interesting feedback in that kids who are frequently in a state of fear actually wind up having the kind of discipline referred to here (consistency, calmness, following through on promises) impaired. So, a stressed school environment where a child is a misfit can actually exacerbate poor discipline if the home is a calm, safe environment. Also - many elementary teachers think busywork teaches discipline. I love the idea of teachers having the same child for 6 years like in Finland, because I think the busywork benefits discipline idea would be blasted out of the water if you were the teacher who had to deal with your overly busyworked child 3 years later...
There are the things like cleaning up when you spill something. Get dressed before you leave the yard. Brush your teeth, and the like. Looking at our various family members, I can say that we all exhibit a great talent for discipline in our pursuits. Does that come on its own? At what age? Does this need to be instilled? Does DS show seven-year old discipline in being really gung-ho in getting his projects done and finished (for which he often employs the help of us parents or neighbors)? Or am I confusing this with drive. What does discipline look like for an unschooler?
So, I touched on some of my thoughts above. I am in and out of the unschooling game... so here is where I have less real life knowledge. But, my idea is that loving, caring relationships are what teach discipline. Cleaning up, I talk about the consequences of not cleaning up, and how it simply transfers the work to someone else. Pitching in makes peoples lives easier. This kind of discussion works for me, because we have built up a solid foundation where we care about each other. My kids who respond well to this are 12, 9, 9 and my two year old does two. My 4 year old? Not so much. But I trust that it will come.
Languages - I know that there is a critical time for humans to learn languages very easily. And the window is closing soon. I am all for him learning a third language. One that he will need, given his inclinations. But he protests. So, I am debating. Do I veer off the unschooling track and have him learn this anyway just because I am older and wiser and know a little more about how the world ticks? Same with math. He's going to need it given his interests.
I guess there is a window for languages - for becoming a native or near native speaker (that is about 1 year old for native and about 9 for near native (near native means pretty much no accent))... but people can become pretty damned proficient without being a near native. So. Languages has to do with interest - even at 9. Kids uninterested in the target language develop high proficiency often at 9, but maintain an accent. My son DOES want to learn French. I did put him in French immersion for that. But, he also wanted to go to school. If he wanted French without going to school, there is Rosetta stone and exchanges. I learned Russian in high school, and it was not taught in my school - I found outside school resources for it - they exist.
I mean, I did want to teach him music notation and I was romanticizing about teaching him how to play a musical instrument. Ditto with dancing. It's nice to have rhythm. But DS shows great discomfort when music is around; and, as passionate as I am about dance, how dispassionate he is. So, OK. That's fine (but I still hold out a little, teeny, tiny hope that one day, we may play music together as a family, or that we may go to a dance recital together; hope springs eternal).
I am not sure that a child completely disinterested in music would learn in even in a music school environment. One can lead a child to the learning trough, but cannot make them drink. And, learning resistance is hell to overcome.
One rationale that is presented as to why kids need to go to school is that they will meet people who are unlike them or their parents/family. They will meet kids who are special needs and get to be accepting of this. OK. Point taken. But I think that he is learning this just fine. My best friend has a mental handicap and DS experiences frequently how she is struggling to make her way in the world. He learns how difficult it is for her to keep down a job (even for a week) or keep friends. And, giving as he is, he brainstorms with her where she can work next so that she can have some extra income. He learns that she is always welcome and can eat here even if she is difficult to be with at times. He learns that we need to take care of each other. As well, our neighborhood is very diverse in its make-up. DS has many acquaintances here and they are from all backgrounds. Ah, I don't know why I even think about this. We live in an international hub and there is so much diversity. It's difficult not to meet people who are radically different from yourself or your family.
Well, I do find that my kids when homeschooled gravitate more towards kids who are like them, and when schooled, they watch people who are not like them in sometimes fascination... and sometimes become friends. So. I find merit to this argument. But, I also find that the age levelling of school undermines this argument substantially. So... there is that.
Curriculum. OK, I took a peek. Money counting with bills and coins is on the roster for the grade he is in. Counting is a no-no with DS now. Here we have a different approach anyway. We have been talking a lot about money, but in a different way. We talk about what loans are and how much they cost. We talk about mortgages and how much they cost. We talk about credit cards. We talk about the advantages and disadvantages of these products. We talk about stocks. These kinds of things. Again, these are spin-offs of talks he hears between me and DP about some people in our lives who are struggling, or not. I figure, first you get the principle down as to how this society works in regards to money, and the rest will follow. It's the principle that I was never taught at school and that I think should have been taught.
Sigh. Curriculum at school is great if you fit the curriculum. If it doesn't fit you... well. That can kill a child. I actually think that schooled/unschooled/homeschooled the curriculum is really simply an opportunity to learn. And the curriculum at school is one way to get there. But... I also wonder if we are simply assuming that the middle of the achievement bell curve is the developmentally normal thing, because we normally put our kids in school. To me, I would think that actually unschooling is the developmentally normal thing, that schooling should be compared to... Not exactly what you are saying. But, I find that the curriculum thing is more about feeling pressure to fit into the box that society gives, rather than anything essential to development.
Thanks for the food for thought.... I'd love to hear yours back?