Unschooling debate (moved from "what educational approach...") - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-27-2005, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Please move the discusion here. I will quote someone in a bit when I catch back.
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Old 02-27-2005, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ShannonCC
This is what most of us have been saying all along.
No, the way it was presented first was without any explanations. "My child learned to read on her own at age..."
It wasn't on her own. I also believe it's misleading for unschoolers to say they don't teach for the sake of unschooling language correctness.

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Originally Posted by ShannonCC
and you know, I KNOW that this works for other families and other kids, so I don't mean to sound judgmental, but it would not work for my spirited, wild child and her spirited wild mama
It doesn't work with mine. I believe I might use workbooks and software to help him with reading. I see no harm in formal methods of teaching reading, unless they are forced to children against their will. If the children enjoy formal lessons, I say do more of them.

I loved formal lessons when I was a child. It helped me to organize my mind and move on faster. What I didn't like was the fact the school moves at a collective pace, not at an individual pace.
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Old 02-27-2005, 08:55 PM
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So, I guess we're hung up on definitions of "teach". My Websters has: "To impart knowledge or skill in; give instruction in." One could stetch this, I suppose... when I told Rain this morning that the cats hadn't been fed yet I was imparting knowledge, so you could say I was teaching her about the feeding status of the cats... but I think that's strtching it.

Maybe the more important issue is intent. If my kid says, "How do you spell 'chaos'?" and I tell her, I'm not intending to teach her any more than I intend to teach her when she asks if the cats have been fed yet. I'm intending to give her information she wants at the time, nothing more.

I differentiate based on the agenda, really. If someone is actively seeking information, then I see it as 'learning', with any teaching being merely incidental to the process. The learner - and learning - is in the driver's seat.

One could define any human interaction as teaching... my co-workers and I chatting about our weekends, for example. My boss taught me about how she spent her Saturday afternoon, I guess.

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Old 02-27-2005, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dar
So, I guess we're hung up on definitions of "teach". My Websters has: "To impart knowledge or skill in; give instruction in." One could stetch this, I suppose... when I told Rain this morning that the cats hadn't been fed yet I was imparting knowledge,
No, knowledge in a form of a skill is teaching! You were stating a fact. Telling her how to feed the cats if she didn't knew would be teaching.

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Originally Posted by Dar
Maybe the more important issue is intent. If my kid says, "How do you spell 'chaos'?" and I tell her, I'm not intending to teach her any more
I would take the chance to explain a bit about phonics.

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Originally Posted by Dar
I differentiate based on the agenda, really. If someone is actively seeking information, then I see it as 'learning', with any teaching being merely incidental to the process.
That's the kind of twisting concepts I never liked in intellectual movements. Always going around words and redefining them and making their own vocabularies. When I help my child learn I call it teaching and that's that. When someone ignorant about out-of-school education asks who teaches my child I reply "me". I won't go "Nobody "teaches" my child, he learns himself and I only help when he actually seeks information from me wich I gladly depart, without giving more or less than requested..."

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One could define any human interaction as teaching...
No, one couldn't. Your boss taught you to do nothing.
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Old 02-27-2005, 09:44 PM
 
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You don't have to be taught to DO something in order to be taught.
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Old 02-27-2005, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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You don't have to be taught to DO something in order to be taught.
Could you expand on that please?
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Old 02-27-2005, 09:57 PM
 
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We just live and learn stuff... together and on our own. We don't turn every question on how to spell a word into a phonics/language lesson, just as we don't refuse to explain a phonics/language question if that is what is being asked. There's a difference IMO.

When life is learning there isn't any need (as far as I am concerned anyway...) to try and make every moment some big "educational" thing. To be honest, I kind of think that would really suck.

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Old 02-27-2005, 09:59 PM
 
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Well, for instance, if someone is talking to me about their camping trip and describes a bird that I've never before heard of, I've learned something. I didn't learn how to catch a bird, how to look for a bird, how to fly like a bird, I just learned that there is a bird out there that I had not heard about prior. Maybe I learned what the bird looked like and what it ate. Maybe I learned the name of the bird and what kind of sounds it makes. I still did not learn how to DO anything.

It's very simple, really.
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Old 02-28-2005, 12:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Leonor
No, the way it was presented first was without any explanations.
Yes, but then there went on to be post after post with explanations (including one of mine) and from what you wrote after, it seems you didn't read them. People were trying to clarify what they meant but it doesn't do any good if the clarifications aren't read.

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I also believe it's misleading for unschoolers to say they don't teach for the sake of unschooling language correctness.
Then how do *you* define unschooling? If every time a parent talks to their child it's considered teaching, then what is left? So basically, we're all homeschooling, we're all unschooling? Or none of us are unschooling? Are we only unschooling if we lock our kids in closets and make sure no one talks to them for fear of them being "taught" :LOL (just joking of course - though I do know some news articles that think that is what HOMESCHOOLING is).

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It doesn't work with mine.
And that is fine for you and your family but that doesn't mean it's ok to insult those of us who it *does* work for. My daughter is very happy and learning well this way and that's all that matters to us.

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When someone ignorant about out-of-school education asks who teaches my child I reply "me". I won't go "Nobody "teaches" my child, he learns himself and I only help when he actually seeks information from me wich I gladly depart, without giving more or less than requested..."
That is funny because when my mom congratulated *me* on teaching Bridget to read I told her (in front of Bridget of course!) that it wasn't me, it was Bridget who learned. And I meant it And for specifics, sometimes she learns something from Dada or Grandma, or sometimes she figures it out on her own, or from a book, or a computer game or whatever! And yes, sometimes I teach her something, but no, it's not just me.
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Old 02-28-2005, 04:37 AM
 
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It's obvious to all reading these threads that you had a bad experience at unschooling.com and got your feelings hurt. That doesn't mean that every pro-unschooling post here you have to pick apart to find a flaw (while at the same time claiming to be hurt by others and using loaded language - even though you say you don't like others intellectually playing with words). It's a cute game and all, but it's quite boring. This is really one of the best messageboards you can find for homeschooling as well as the most open-minded one, so please FORGET about your bad experience at unschooling.com and leave it behind you. It's over, kaput, done.

FYI: if you are truly interested in unschooling, an excellent book is The Unschooling Handbook by Mary Griffith.
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Old 02-28-2005, 04:47 AM
 
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I agree that I do not have to have my son DO anything to be taught. He does have to listen and watch...but that is all.

He needs to soak it in and he will learn. Absorbing life is a huge part of learning.

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Old 02-28-2005, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Leonor
No, knowledge in a form of a skill is teaching! You were stating a fact. Telling her how to feed the cats if she didn't knew would be teaching.
So, your definition of teaching is "knowledge in the form of a skill"? Do you mean that teaching involves only instructing someone on how to perform a task? And "stating a fact" is not teaching?

For what it's worth, the state of California paid me to tell a bunch of 4th graders a bunch of facts about California in during the 1860s last Friday, and they called it "teaching", so I don't think your definition is universally accepted. Intrinsically, though, there was no difference between what I did in the classroom and what my boss did when she told me about her weekend, except that we were telling people about different things.

Quote:
I would take the chance to explain a bit about phonics.
With the word "chaos"? Have you ever tried to spell it phhonetically? It's actually a great word for demonstrating the limitations of phonics, I guess.

I actually did mention that it was from the Greek, when she seemed surprised by the spelling. She knows something about the Greek language from hanging out in a college town, so she could connect the hard k sound in chaos to the hard k sound in Chi, for example. I don't know if she actually did this, but she may have.

Anyway, she didn't want to know abuout phonics, she wanted to know how to spell "chaos". Would you like it if you were lost and stopped to ask someone directions, and he started giving you instructions on how to use Mapquest?

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That's the kind of twisting concepts I never liked in intellectual movements. Always going around words and redefining them and making their own vocabularies.
What exactly does 'learning' mean to you, then? I was using the standard definition, from the dictionary... you're the one who doesn't use the standard dictionary definition of "teach".

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When I help my child learn I call it teaching and that's that.
Teaching is one way to help someone learn. There are others. Taking my child to the park or the library or a musuem is a way to help her learn, but it's not teaching. I don't think answering questions is teaching, nor is reading to someone, but they help people learn.

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When someone ignorant about out-of-school education asks who teaches my child I reply "me". I won't go "Nobody "teaches" my child, he learns himself and I only help when he actually seeks information from me wich I gladly depart, without giving more or less than requested..."
Nobody here has said that. Go read the old threads here on unschooling.

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Old 02-28-2005, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Dar, I am aware English language is pretty stupid. It's easier to memorize word by word than to figure out the poorly designed grammar. I still help my child throughout the confusion, because sometimes he tries to guess words on his own. I tell him in English the letter U has four sounds (in Portuguese it's only one). I get him software that helps with phonics. I would find it neglectful not to help him like this.

If someone starts teaching me about something I don't want, I will say to that person I don't want to hear it. It happened several times, it doesn't cause me distress. Same way, when my child wants me to stop with the explanations, I will stop.

I find it silly and artificial to only reply when children ask "what is written there" and leave all help with reading up to that. Sure, some "gifted" children will figure it out on their own, but I honestly don't think it's respectful of their autonomy to having them ask you all the time what's written in places when you could have given them further help to understand reading on their own.

I mainly follow my child curiosity and it already gives me plenty to do. But I don't do it exclusively anymore. Once I had a friend visiting who started asking my kid if he knew how 30 was written. My kid didn't know, my friend told him, and then my friend kept asking how to write 2 digit numbers. My kid loved the session and learned a lot with this, although it didn't came from a specific question of him.

I don't stick to a dogma "you shall only reply when your child asks".

By the way, the article I mentioned on unschooling.com about the illiterate teenagers was in the first page at the time when you clicked "Articles". I can't find it now. There is an article now which is very curious "Our 8 Year Old Son Still Doesn't Read". The mother cares less if her son doesn't read yet, because she is confident it will come when he is ready, however she "ensure[s] they do some of the 3R's each day. [...] And math is a daily kitchen table event. "

I don't wish to discuss dictionary definitions with you, it's a tiring game and it's getting silly "you got it wrong, no you got it wrong".
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Old 02-28-2005, 11:55 AM
 
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It seems to me that this is being made out to be much more difficult than it needs to be. Several people have mentioned that they don't like unschooling.com because unschooling was defined so narrowly as to keep many out of the definition. Yet, this discussion about children learning "on their own" is doing just that.

I've always said, when asked, that dd learned to read on her own. What I mean by that is that I did not sit down and teach her to read. We did not use a phonics program, we did not use flash cards and, most importantly, I did not decide that at a particular moment in time it was time for her to be reading. Yes, I read to her when she wanted me to. Yes, we made many trips to the library and she looked at many books. Yes, when she said, "What does this say?" I answered her. I did not sit her down and say, "It's time you learned to read and I'll show you how."

No one "taught" her in the traditional schooling method ("Since you are now 5 years old, you will learn to read, using a combination of phonics and whole language, whether you want to or not, and you will be tested and judged as competent or not according to how well your peers are learning this skill.")


I think it can be equated to walking or talking. She learned both of those things without being taught. Yes, she saw others walking, and I let her pull herself up on my leg, and I provided the furniture that she cruised around, but I never determined that it was time for her to walk and then set out to instruct her. She figured that out on her own.

Same thing with talking. She certainly was spoken to, and words were flying all around her much of the time--yet, no one picked a time when she "should" be speaking, or set out to conjugate verbs with her, or explain how to place her tongue to the roof of her mouth to make an /L/ sound.

As an unschooler, I'm not OPPOSED to teaching--my children have taken classes and I have taught them things. The difference, imo, is that *I* did not decide their schedule of learning--it was done on their timeline and according to their interests.

I don't know if every other unschooler on the planet considers me an unschooler or not--I really don't care. Unschooling will look different, depending on who you're looking at. (Just as homeschooling looks very different from house to house.) I think the only critical piece in the definition of unschooling is the issue of autonomy. If your learning is self-directed, you're an unschooler. If someone else is telling you what to learn and when to learn it, that's something different.

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Old 02-28-2005, 12:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Leonor
Dar, I am aware English language is pretty stupid. It's easier to memorize word by word than to figure out the poorly designed grammar. I still help my child throughout the confusion, because sometimes he tries to guess words on his own. I tell him in English the letter U has four sounds (in Portuguese it's only one). I get him software that helps with phonics. I would find it neglectful not to help him like this.

If someone starts teaching me about something I don't want, I will say to that person I don't want to hear it. It happened several times, it doesn't cause me distress. Same way, when my child wants me to stop with the explanations, I will stop.

I find it silly and artificial to only reply when children ask "what is written there" and leave all help with reading up to that. Sure, some "gifted" children will figure it out on their own, but I honestly don't think it's respectful of their autonomy to having them ask you all the time what's written in places when you could have given them further help to understand reading on their own.

I mainly follow my child curiosity and it already gives me plenty to do. But I don't do it exclusively anymore. Once I had a friend visiting who started asking my kid if he knew how 30 was written. My kid didn't know, my friend told him, and then my friend kept asking how to write 2 digit numbers. My kid loved the session and learned a lot with this, although it didn't came from a specific question of him.

I don't stick to a dogma "you shall only reply when your child asks".

By the way, the article I mentioned on unschooling.com about the illiterate teenagers was in the first page at the time when you clicked "Articles". I can't find it now. There is an article now which is very curious "Our 8 Year Old Son Still Doesn't Read". The mother cares less if her son doesn't read yet, because she is confident it will come when he is ready, however she "ensure[s] they do some of the 3R's each day. [...] And math is a daily kitchen table event. "

I don't wish to discuss dictionary definitions with you, it's a tiring game and it's getting silly "you got it wrong, no you got it wrong".
Who here said that English was stupid and who decided it was poorly designed grammar? Could you explain why you think English is stupid how you got the idea that it was poorly designed rather than an evolving language?

You keep saying over and over again that you can't work with the dogma about only replying when children ask. Nobody is saying that is what they do all of the time. It seems that either you have a comprehension problem or as you so eloquently put it above, "If someone starts teaching me about something I don't want, I will say to that person I don't want to hear it." Shock! That is what you've been doing on this thread and the other one the whole time. Perhaps you're listening but you're not really comprehending what the unschooling parents are telling you or even just ignoring them since you don't want to hear it.

As for not wanting to discuss dictionary definitions, you brought up in an earlier post what you thought teaching wasn't. Somebody put it to you to tell them what teaching in fact was as their definition came from the dictionary. Fair game, isn't it? Yes, this is all a tiring game which makes me wonder why I even bother posting when you're just trolling.
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Old 02-28-2005, 12:53 PM
 
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As always, I don't understand why people like Lenor are so worried about what other people do with their children. Further, I don't understand their need to find fault with these children's successes as if it's a huge lie brought forth by the Unschooling Agenda.

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Old 02-28-2005, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonor

[quote
I find it silly and artificial to only reply when children ask "what is written there" and leave all help with reading up to that.
But nobody has recommended doing that. We've actually talked about doing the opposite.

Besides answering questions, I read to her, played word-related games with her, gave her meta-information when she seemed interested, provided books that interested her... lots of things. What I didn't do was explicitly set out to teach her to read. Instead, I created an environment where she could learn to read.

Again, it does come down to learning vs. teaching, which you don't seem to want to address anymore.

Quote:
I don't stick to a dogma "you shall only reply when your child asks".
Neither do I. Nor does any unschooler I've ever met.

Quote:
The mother cares less if her son doesn't read yet, because she is confident it will come when he is ready, however she "ensure[s] they do some of the 3R's each day. [...] And math is a daily kitchen table event. "
I wouldn't call that unschooling.

Quote:
I don't wish to discuss dictionary definitions with you, it's a tiring game and it's getting silly "you got it wrong, no you got it wrong".
It's hard to converse rationally about a subject if we're not defining the same words in the same way.

It looks to me like you got caught in a logical corner and decided that rather than looking at what you've been saying and seeing if it truly does make sense, you'll just blow smoke and call the whole thing "silly" and "tiring". You're not fooling anyone, I don't think.

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Old 02-28-2005, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joan
No one "taught" her in the traditional schooling method ("Since you are now 5 years old, you will learn to read, using a combination of phonics and whole language, whether you want to or not, and you will be tested and judged as competent or not according to how well your peers are learning this skill.")
You're not implying this is what I'm doing, are you?
It is not.

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Originally Posted by Joan
I think it can be equated to walking or talking.
I don't think talking is as easy as walking and I don't think reading is as easy as talking. For some children reading is very easy. For others is harder and some formal instruction (than not forced) helps.

I wanted to ask if you read your child stories only when she requested or if you created a routine of reading stories every day, making a book collection for her when starting she was a baby, etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan
Same thing with talking. She certainly was spoken to, and words were flying all around her much of the time--yet, no one picked a time when she "should" be speaking, or set out to conjugate verbs with her, or explain how to place her tongue to the roof of her mouth to make an /L/ sound.
You sure you never corrected her when she said a word wrong? You never said "it's not 'builded', it's 'built'".

It actually pains me a bit to correct my child as I think English grammar is poorly constructed. Sometimes I feel stuck in bettween wanting to create a new world and wanting my child to be able to survive on this one.

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Originally Posted by Joan
I don't know if every other unschooler on the planet considers me an unschooler or not--I really don't care.
I care. So I rather not call myself one.
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ShannonCC
And that is fine for you and your family but that doesn't mean it's ok to insult those of us who it *does* work for. My daughter is very happy and learning well this way and that's all that matters to us.
I don't remember having insulted anyone. Could you quote?
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Old 02-28-2005, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sasha_girl
As always, I don't understand why people like Lenor are so worried about what other people do with their children. Further, I don't understand their need to find fault with these children's successes as if it's a huge lie brought forth by the Unschooling Agenda.
People like Leonor might not like when other people mention them in the third persona and roll their eyes on them, even if only virtually.

Oh, sorry for the bold on the o, I try to wait for people to catch my name on their own, but they tend to just keep making the mistake if I don't correct them.

That said, I think you got the wrong end of the stick.

This debate started because some unschoolers felt offended I've found unschooling as I knew it neglect and told me I knew nothing what unschooling was about. They wanted to defend their cause, to explain to me why I didn't understand unschooling with their definitions, etc, etc. I listened and asked questions.

My mistake was to call unschooling a cult. People get really offended with this term because they pick on the strict definition and not the modern one. A movement is seens as a much more noble word.

I wonder if I just have said the first time: "I don't really call myself an unschooler or autonomous educator though, because I don't think is helpful to my child's autonomy not to help him to learn how to read more formally as early when he starts asking "what's written in there"?
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Old 02-28-2005, 06:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Leonor
You're not implying this is what I'm doing, are you?
It is not.
No. I have no idea what you're doing, so I wouldn't comment on that. That example was the antithesis of unschooling--the thing that unschoolers would avoid and the traditional way that schools teach.


Quote:
I wanted to ask if you read your child stories only when she requested or if you created a routine of reading stories every day, making a book collection for her when starting she was a baby, etc?
I read when they requested it, definately. Other times I'd say, "How about a story?" and they were free to say "Okay" or "No." I never made a routine of it. I did buy books for them (still do.)


Quote:
You sure you never corrected her when she said a word wrong? You never said "it's not 'builded', it's 'built'".
I'm sure I didn't. I just kept modeling the correct form of the word and they picked it up in the same way they picked up the rest of the language.

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Old 02-28-2005, 06:33 PM
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My mistake was to call unschooling a cult. People get really offended with this term because they pick on the strict definition and not the modern one. A movement is seens as a much more noble word.
A philosophy?

A method, perhaps?

Yes, calling unschooling a cult was a mistake. How were we to know that you had your own definition for the word "cult"? Again. we made the "mistake" of assuming we were all using words as defined by the dictionary, rather than as defined by Leonor...

You persist in maintaining that you are the only one here who knows what unschooling really is, and those of us who are actually doing it, and have been doing it for years, are ignorant as to what it's about. Does that make sense to you?

It's like coming to a breastfeeding board and saying, "I don't breastfeed because I think it's wrong for a woman to have to pull up her shirt every time her 6 year old demands to nurse, no matter when or where." And you're ignoring all of the people who are saying "Breastfeeding doesn't mean this" and "I don't know of any breastfeeding moms who do this" and the like.
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You sure you never corrected her when she said a word wrong? You never said "it's not 'builded', it's 'built'".
I never did. I think it would be rude, in the first place, and it wouldn't help the child's speech development anyway. Over generalizing like this (for past tense, use "ed") is a normal stage in speech development, and correcting the child won't speed the development process at all. Mistakes like this show that the child is internalizing the rules of spoken English, and he'll figure out the exceptions next, by listening to the speech of people around him. That's the kind of "help" he needs. Drawing his attention to the error may make him self-conscious, and will not help with a process that's happening without his conscious knowledge anyway.

Dar

 
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Old 02-28-2005, 06:48 PM
 
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Well, I am officially out of this thread. If it was a proper debate, as such, I would gladly contribute. But after a brief perusal of Leonor's posts (yes, I'm using third person tense) I see that logic is not this person's strong suit. From telling people that carseats are torture devices and cars were designed for people who don't want to walk, to telling people that they should plan their lives around living in a city center so their babies won't need to ever be in cars, the lack of logic is so astonishing I scratch my head in disbelief.

While it may be hard to look away from the car crash or alternately, stop laughing hysterically, this thread has become too non-logical for me to bear any longer. If a scientific approach is taken at some point in the future rather than some completely borderline personality approach, I might read it in the future if I have nothing better to do with my time.
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Old 02-28-2005, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joan
I'm sure I didn't. I just kept modeling the correct form of the word and they picked it up in the same way they picked up the rest of the language.
Modelling? You mean you just kept carrying on talking as you normally hoping they would catch up your example? It seems they did catch up, but what if they didn't?

Some people think demand feeding and child-led weaning is wonderful, their child weaned early, at 2 years old. Some even love it when their child weans at 7 (probably feeling they didn't give in to the mainstream and served their philosophy well above all).

But I now think demand feeding was a very stupid idea for us.

There are also people that claim that their children gladly left their slings to the floor on their own. I got to the point my sling wouldn't hold the weight of my child, it would come undone.

So that's why I think labels are very harmful.
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Old 02-28-2005, 07:47 PM
 
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Modelling? You mean you just kept carrying on talking as you normally hoping they would catch up your example? It seems they did catch up, but what if they didn't?
I don't understand. A child learns to speak in much the same way they learn anything else. If they can put together such a complex series of movements like walking and eating with silverware why could they not learn to speak.

Do you have any evidence that a "normal" child could not learn to speak correctly this way?

 

 

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Old 02-28-2005, 07:51 PM
 
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Leonor---

Personal attacks, followed with a smilie or not, are not acceptable on MDC.

 

 

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Old 02-28-2005, 07:56 PM
 
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I just wanted to pop in and say
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Old 02-28-2005, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dar
Yes, calling unschooling a cult was a mistake. How were we to know that you had your own definition for the word "cult"? Again. we made the "mistake" of assuming we were all using words as defined by the dictionary, rather than as defined by Leonor...
Dar, did you check the dictionary? Check dictionary.com. Entry 6 is what I meant. I'll paste for you.

cult
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.


What I meant.

You still might say it doesn't fit and but I still think it does and .

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Originally Posted by Dar
You persist in maintaining that you are the only one here who knows what unschooling really is
Please quote where I said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
It's like coming to a breastfeeding board and saying, "I don't breastfeed because I think it's wrong for a woman to have to pull up her shirt every time her 6 year old demands to nurse, no matter when or where."
That you be a good reason not to follow child-led weaning, yes, and why I am sorry I ever bought into that. Not to never breastfeed, as there obvious good reasons to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
Over generalizing like this (for past tense, use "ed") is a normal stage in speech development, and correcting the child won't speed the development process at all.
I don't agree with that. My child is speech improved when I helped him with no signs of subconscious distress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
Mistakes like this show that the child is internalizing the rules of spoken English, and he'll figure out the exceptions next, by listening to the speech of people around him. That's the kind of "help" he needs. Drawing his attention to the error may make him self-conscious, and will not help with a process that's happening without his conscious knowledge anyway.
Not happening in this household.
That is the philosophy I don't believe.
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Old 02-28-2005, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have any evidence that a "normal" child could not learn to speak correctly this way?
Only "normal" children have the right to unschool?
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Old 02-28-2005, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Leonor---

Personal attacks, followed with a smilie or not, are not acceptable on MDC.
Quote? And why don't you consider certain third person remarks on me attacks? I'm very offended by them.
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