If you're NOT unschooling... - Page 8 - Mothering Forums

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#211 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 03:09 PM
 
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I am pretty sure Eliowyn lives in western europe. I can't remember if she's in germany or the UK. She could even be in the netherlands...lol

I just am pretty sure she's not american. I think. Or maybe i am thinking of eternal grace...

At any rate, this conversation is no fun. No fun at all.
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#212 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 03:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UUMom
At any rate, this conversation is no fun. No fun at all.
I think the different perspectives are interesting and I am enjoying reading them.

Karen

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#213 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 03:19 PM
 
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(I know this is addressed to another poster, but I'm pretty sure we agree, so here goes.)

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Originally Posted by Dar
I've stated that by your definition, two families can do the very same thing and one will have been homeschooling while the other won't, with the only difference being self-identification.
Yup - self identification based on intent.

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Originally Posted by Dar
To me, this implies that your definition does nothing to differentiate parents of preschool-age children who are homeschoolers from those who are non-homeschoolers.
Wrong. It's maybe the only definition that can so differentiate, based on intent. Their actions are the same, but their intentions are different, so their identification are different. Intent informs identification when actions are the same - consider "Accidental manslaughter" and "First degree murder". The basic action - causing the death of another person - is the same, but the intent and the planning are different, so the identification is different, and pretty much everyone, including US law, recognizes that.

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Originally Posted by Dar
To me, a definition of homeschooling wherein the actions of the family and child are completely irrelevant is meaningless. If you don't find your definition to be meaningless, I'd like to know how you resolve this apparent contradiction.
The actions aren't irrelevent - but when they're the same, differentiation of identification has to take place based on intention. If it's meaningless to you, that's too bad. It's not meaningless to me, or to, I would venture to say, most other people.

I would also like to point out that a very easy definition of homeschooling would be possible if it DIDN'T include unschooling - "doing school at home". It is only when we include unschooling - "doing things from which a child can learn, which is EVERYTHING" - that the definition becomes trickier. I'm willing to live with a more complex definition of homeschooling so that unschooling can be included. What's the difference between the unschooler who lets their kid play video games all day (as a gamer, I actually think that can be valueable to education) and the neglectant parent who lets their kid play video games all day? On the surfase their actions are the same. The difference is intent, self-identification and all the little actions (planning, philosophizing, choosing the path of unschooler). I'm willing to allow that one of the above parents is a good, attentive unschooling parent entitled to the identity "homeschooler" and one is just neglectful and isn't so entitled. Aren't you?
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#214 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 03:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
This post wasn't to me, and I'm sure Arwen has different answers,
Psst, Charles: it's ArwYn. Like the Elven princess, but not.

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Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
but if I may be so bold as to respond, I would say that I entirely agree with you. If we view every individual definition as a circle in a Venn diagram, there has to be an area where they all intersect with common elements.

To me, those elements are the following:

1. Being the primary educator of your child at home. Whether you consider "education" to be parent-led or child-led doesn't make much of a difference. MamaintheBoonies once spoke of her desire to educate her child according to the ways of the First Nation tribe to which they belong, and even though her "curriculum" would be very different from mine, I would still regard it as "education."

2. Intending to be the primary educator of your child at home in lieu of attending school,

3. Defining yourself as a homeschooler.
Yup, yup, yup! Although, as someone here pointed out, many don't identify as the "primary educator" - generally unschoolers. Perhaps "person responsible for the educational choices of the child, including the choice to allow the child to make all the choices about their education"? Anyway, we can quibble over the wording, but I agree with the, ahem!, intent behind what you say.
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#215 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 03:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Karenwith4
It doesn't diminish what anyone does on an individual basis - you are right about that.

It does affect homeschooling and the perception in the general public for reasons we've gone over above. It does affect tangible things like supports, services, availability of resources etc if there is an disproportionate number of preschool parents using the term.
Let's say for a moment that this is entirely true, for the sake of argument. I don't know whether it is or isn't. However, at the same time, supports, services, and resources also increase with more availability of people to do things with. For instance, now that I've joined a homeschooling group, I'm working on taking a bunch of teens up to a drama festival to compete. Just as I'm using the resources -- e.g., joining book club, play group, et cetera -- I'm also giving back to add to those resources. Also, the greater number of homeschoolers could affect whether laws get passed or don't, how many people agitate their legislators to make homeschooling legislation that benefits homeschoolers, and so on, where smaller numbers might fail.
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In my experience it affects for example what happens with our homeschool group. It affects our abilities to use certain resources like the community room at the library. It affects the perception and therefore accessibility and openness to use certain programs at the local small children's museum. It affects what my neighbour thinks of homeschooling. It affects my ability to access 'teacher' resources b/c there is the perception that 'anyone' can call themselves a homeschooler. It does have an affect.
I'd also like to argue, though, that the numbers of homeschoolers going up has had positive benefits. Think of the resources available to us that weren't way back in the day when no one except the right-of-right-fundamentalists were homeschoolers. Think of the increasing public acceptance of homeschoolers as their numbers have grown and it's become more "normal." Ten years ago, even, hardly anyone knew anyone who was HSing and now nearly everyone knows someone -- or knows someone who knows someone, as these things go.

I'd like to add too, that the more parents of preschoolers home-educate, the less mystification will remain around the schools' abilities to do the same thing. How many times has it happened that we've met a parent or heard of one who's said something like, "Oh, it takes an expert in reading to teach reading; I could never do that!!"

Maybe the second idea is true, but the first one certainly is not. That mystique -- that teaching is rocket science -- has kept the monopoly on education in the hands of the state for the last hundred years and it's time that it stopped, or at the very least, it's time that parents understand they have the ability; they have the choice; it's there for them. As Rynna said above, if you don't know you have a choice, do you really have one? I think you don't. You know what first put the bee into my husband's and my collective bonnets about homeschooling? When we met a homeschooling family in a restaurant by chance. That's when it became "real," like, "Hey, this is something we could do too!"

Anyway, sorry to rattle on and on.
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#216 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 03:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom
I am pretty sure Eliowyn lives in western europe. I can't remember if she's in germany or the UK. She could even be in the netherlands...lol
I just am pretty sure she's not american. I think. Or maybe i am thinking of eternal grace...
At any rate, this conversation is no fun. No fun at all.
UUMom,

You are thinking of Eternal Grace. She's in the UK. Eilonwy is American and she lives in the US.
And for what it's worth, I have enjoyed reading this thread. There are times when it has been hard to read, but very informative all the same.
Thanks everyone!

Take Care,
Erika :
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail..."
"Knowledge without compassion is useless"-SCW
"I am learning all the time, the tombstone will be my diploma"- Eartha Kitt

"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail..."
"I am learning all the time, the tombstone will be my diploma"- Eartha Kitt
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#217 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
1. Being the primary educator of your child at home.
Based on the poll in The Childhood Years forum, most parents of young children (2-4) believe that they are the primary educators of their children. I'm willing to bet that a sizeable percentage of the parents of schooled kids also believe themselves to be their child's primary educator at home..

Also, I believe that many homeschoolers - including many unschoolers, but also some non-unschooling homeschoolers - don't believe this. I don't, for one. In the same poll I referenced above, many people alluded to the idea of a village, and said that their children learned from many different people, not just the parents. As they get older, some homeschoolers attach themselves to mentors in their field of interest, who are rarely their parents, but are probably their primary educators.
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2. Intending to be the primary educator of your child at home in lieu of attending school,
Again, doesn't describe me or many people I know. I assume you mean K-12 school here? Because many homeschoolers attend other types of school....

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3. Defining yourself as a homeschooler.
So, two of your three criteria will include many people who don't consider themselves homeschoolers and/or exclude many parents of K-12 school-age children who aren't in school. The one that's left is self-definition, and that's what this definition really seems to come down to.

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Originally Posted by Arwyn
I would also like to point out that a very easy definition of homeschooling would be possible if it DIDN'T include unschooling - "doing school at home".
Many - most? - homeschoolers don't consider what they're doing to be "school at home", including a whole lot who would never call themselves unschoolers.

I don't believe that homeschooling, of any sort, means that you can't also be neglecting a child. The two aren't mutually exclusive (well, I actually think unschooling and neglect are mututally exclusive, but that's really beside the point). So whether or not a child is being neglected is pretty much immaterial.

My nice, simple definition of homeschooling: "something done in lieu of K-12 schooling". You could add self-definition to that, I suppose, although I don't think it's really necessary.

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#218 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 05:33 PM
 
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Ok so here is what I have decided makes an official homeschooler (and disagree if you want, doesn't make anydifference to me) i don't consider preschool, acredited or otherwise, playing or accademic or artsy or spiritual or nature based ar any combination of the above to have anythign to do with school. Even for PS klids I don't believe PS gives a child any sortof advantage over sany other 5 year old who breezes in. UNmebrs, colors and letter sounds just not that hard to learn. holding your pee, raising your hand and eating on a schedule, not that hard to learn (althought I would wager harder than letters, shapes and numbers).

So pre-school is just that. Not essential, not all that helpful, not required, not school.

So what makes me a homeschooler? the same things that makes me a public schooler or a priate schooler or a democratic chooler or a waldorf schooler. My legal decaration (because while PS schol attendance is not compulsary (sp) educating yoru child properly is, even though the defnition of properly is loose. and defines by the parent|) of my education intent and action on that intent. In my state when our children are 6 at teh start of the school year we have to tell the school board how we intend to educate them. Some peopel don't and have never gotten in trouble but I fear for what thier negligence or defiance (I know people in both groups, one just can't remembr to do it ) might do to our verty loose homeschooling rules. personally I would rather have to send in a paper, that is really all it is is a paper saying, I have a kid, this is my kid and we will be homeschooling. no one has been denied that i have ever heard of. and take an easy test a couple times then have the state look closer and decide more regulation is needed . . . but I am diverging . . So anyway, what sets me apart from anyone else is on that first day of school when we don't show up. There are lazy homescholers, just like there are lazy ps teachers and parents. and tehre willbe homeschoolers who learn nothing, unschoolers thast learn nothing and ps kids that learn nothing. I think they are all the exception rather than the rule.

I appaud all the mamas who are looking into this early. it is fun and exciting to think abotu this big jump. it is best to make associations with experiance homeschoolers and groups and form a support network and get involved and set a stadard of an enriching educational lifestyle. But really I think homeschooler is just a legal title anyway. how we live each day and teach our children etc is what is most important. (and no one way of doing that is better for all families, parents children).

when I read this forum I realize there are a lot of peole who haven't even started. people who are playing homeschool with thier preschoolers. back when I had one child and all the time in the world i did that too. I just skip to people who I know (or who appear to) have experiance in the areas i am wondering about. I don't se why we need to badger the mothers of preschoolers until they agree with us. it is simply a non issue to me. just read peoples signatures for crying out loud. if you don't want thier input don't take it.

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#219 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 05:58 PM
 
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Couple things, Dar. First off, do you think my above example of a kid playing videogames all day is neglectful? That's what is implied by what you said. I think it is, if the intent is to avoid having to parent the child, and it isn't if the intent is to follow an unschooling path. Whether one of those children is being neglected IS material, because it gets down to the whole point of intent.

Secondly, you define homeschooling as "Something done in lieu of k-12 schooling". Ok, how about the parent who locks their k-12er in a closet? Is that homeschooling? It's done in lieu of schooling and during the right ages. I don't think I know anyone who would call that "homeschooling", it's child abuse and human rights violation. But according to your definition, it's homeschooling.

Your definition doesn't work. Not every child who isn't in school and is within the age range of 5-18 is being homeschooled.

I conceed your point about my proffered simple definition, although I think school is a flexible enough concept to include even the most loose, eclectic approaches (but then, I spent grades 3-8 in an open-ed mixed-age alternative "school", so I suppose I'm biased).

I think my primary point is that I wish we would stop being so darned determined to define others, to defend our favorite words. Language is flexible - that's its gift and its curse, to use a cliche. It's like the willow - it's not going to break just because it's bendable.
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#220 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Arwyn-- try "education outside of the school system and self identification as a homeschooler or home educator."

Someone a page or two back said that "most people" would answer "5" when asked "how old is kindergarten?" In my experience, that's not true. I know people who would give (have given!) answers ranging from 3 to 9, and can think of at least three people who would say "any age, most likely between three and nine." In my experience, the majority of people would say 4, 5, or 6 depending on the child in question but while 5 is the average, I don't think that most people would give 5 as an answer. I could accept the idea that I know strange people, but I think that going back to the marriage analogy would be more appropriate. Just as my mother's cultural and societal influences informed her concept of marriage, so they informed her concept of a) what education was and b) when it formally begins. I was raised with the idea that formal education does indeed begin at the age of 3, and I was taught that the first year of formal education is generally called "kindergarten" (or "gan yeladim," but I digress). I'm flexible enough to understand why parents of younger or older children might wish to define what they do as home education, and I can accept that for some people the statement "my child's home education formally began around age three" would not be accurate or desireable. It doesn't get my shorts in a twist-- if you're not homeschooling until your child is school aged in your particular district (once again, *totally* arbitrary and wildly variable), then don't; that doesn't give you any right to say that what I'm doing *isn't* home education or homeschooling.

I am definately American, and I happen to live in a very strange state where education (and much else) is concerned. Pennsylvania was founded by William Penn, a Quaker who believed in freedom of religion; thus, PA has long been a haven for people of various religious groups and societies, all of whom viewed things like education in different lights. The law in this state is that no child can be legally required to attend school before the age of 8 or after they've completed the 8th grade or attained 16 years in large part because of the work of Amish families intent on keeping their children under their own family/church influences for as long as possible.

That said, the homeschooling laws here are, outside of the mandatory school ages, some of the most oppressive in the country (outside of New York, which just likes to make everything difficult for everyone). Many believe them to be unconstitutional and they are, even when one does the bare minimum, highly invasive and ineffective (they fail to accomplish their ostensible goal of protecting children and seeing that they recieve adequate educations). Despite the oppressiveness of the laws, there are many, many home educators in Pennsylvania; the overwhelming majority of them are keeping their children out of school for religious reasons, which goes back to the nature of PA and why it was founded. The state has been working very hard to get those children back in school; there are at least four cyber charter schools which purport to be mere umbrella schools for homeschoolers but are, in fact, public schools designed to lure families into/back into the system.

We also have many comprehensive programs for young/very young children, again because of the way that state law works. Legally, your child can attend kindergarten in PA and be pulled out and you still don't have to register as a homeschooler until the child turns 8, but if your child attends (not necessarily "completes" but "attends") first grade then they must be registered regardless of age to be compliant with the law. Thus, it is in the best interests of the public school system to get the kids in as early (age-wise) as possible, so many districts (particularly districts in which home education is exceptionally popular, i.e. small towns and suburban areas) offer kindergarten programs to children as young as three (and in all fairness, it's usually more like 3.5 or what I'd call "damn near four," but that's not the way that the rules are written) just so that the child is attached to the idea of school and the parent enrolls them in first grade because the child whines/begs/pleads to be with his friends again. Some of these children will be removed from first grade, but they will already be in the snare of having to register their children as homeschoolers in order to be compliant with the law (which, as I mentioned before, is a real PITA).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka
when I read this forum I realize there are a lot of peole who haven't even started. people who are playing homeschool with thier preschoolers.
See, opinions like this are why I'm so ticked off by this discussion. Haven't started? Just playing homeschool? How can you expect people who are working very hard to keep their children out of the snares of public school *not* to be offended by statemens like this? We're not just playing around, and we've long since gotten started. This is real life for us. This is who we are and it's what we do.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#221 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 07:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy
Arwyn-- try "education outside of the school system and self identification as a homeschooler or home educator."
Works for me! Thanks.
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#222 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 10:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Arwyn
Psst, Charles: it's ArwYn. Like the Elven princess, but not.
Whoops! So sorry! Thanks for the heads-up.

Yup, yup, yup! Although, as someone here pointed out, many don't identify as the "primary educator" - generally unschoolers. Perhaps "person responsible for the educational choices of the child, including the choice to allow the child to make all the choices about their education"? Anyway, we can quibble over the wording, but I agree with the, ahem!, intent behind what you say.[/QUOTE]

Whew! Thanks!
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#223 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 11:10 PM
 
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ummm, there are people who are on this forum who have not started homescholing or hacve barely started and are still just experimenting with thier options. who are just playing around with it and giving it a test drive before school actualy starts. w ho haven't made up there mind and are just seeing if they can teach thier child. That doesn't make them les atentive attatched parents. It makes them smart parents who aren't ruishing into anything. I can dig that. and I do not consider teaching your preschooler to be anything other than perental obligation. It is what parents of preschoolers do with thier children. anything less is neglectful and lazy. Even if your child is in an accredited preschool (play school really. even the most accademic preschools are really just grooming them for schol and letting them play with cool toys) it is still teh parents responsibility to teach them nd prep them forschool and set a good foundation for learnign and growing. And regardless of how old a persons child is I do take thier advice with a grain of salt (if i take it all) if they don't have much experiance or if thier child isn't officially homeschooling during the school year (because some just homeschool during the summer and afterschool and holidays of course) or whatever. I thought I knew a lot about homeschooling 6 years ago when I started with my child. Looking back I can see that I didn't have a clue. but I was more than happy to declare how I did it and how it ought to be done I played homeschooling with my first child (like i said in my original post) we did little worksheets and I taught her to read, basic math. She was genuinely way ahead. and before that did the requisite numbers and colors and shapes etc . . . but none of it matters because she would have learned it all in good time and been right on par for her age regardless. which is exactly where she is now by the way. right on par with her peers.

I don't see what the big freaking deal is. I have a baby who is almost three. She dos accademic stuff occaisionaly for variious reasons. She is a child in a homeschooling family. there is no doubt in my mind she will be homeschooled. None of that makes her a homeschooler. That makes her a kid with an attentive mommy who follows her lead. And she will have a god foundation in 3 years, when it is time to decide, regardless of what we choose and what changes between then and now. Nothing we have done will have been wasted. but none of it makes her a homeschooler. It makes her a baby in a rich environment (yah I know she has probably worn out the baby title. leave me be )

what about people who have one in PS and one registered as a HS? what are they? homeschoolers or PS? what if the one at home is a pre-schooler instead of a registered homeschooler but thier mom teaches them schooly stuff? are they still homeschooled?

Call yourself whatever you want. I don't see what diference my opinion (or anyone elses) about what makes someone else a homeschooler matter in the long run. I don't care what other people call what we do. I don't need others to validate me or my parenting or my interactions with my children. It doesn't make me feel better about what I do with my children if they call it schooling or not. whatever And I just don't see why it is such a big deal what I think about other people and weather or not they are officially homeschooling. who cares?

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#224 of 234 Old 11-13-2005, 11:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka
Call yourself whatever you want. I don't see what diference my opinion (or anyone elses) about what makes someone else a homeschooler matter in the long run.

Exactly.

I think it's that people with small children were calling themselves hsers without issue, but this thread had people telling them they were not. i don't get at all, and I;ve tried. There are people on both sides whom I admire much.

Seriosuly. Does it really matter to people how others identify? if not, why bother debating it? Clearly there is something bothering folks of older hsers.

I just cannot figure why people feel any need whatsoever to tell families with 'prescoolers' that they are not hsers.

I admit, I don't get it. You can quote me, even.

Of course, I'm not a ''good' hser, as I have a couple of kids and in school-- and all.

I recognize we aren't really purely *anything* but us.

I would never bother telling anyone they aren't what they feel themselves to be.

Even S Dodd has written a book on hsing preschoolers.
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#225 of 234 Old 11-14-2005, 10:59 AM
 
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Feels too unstructured to me. I want to make sure my kids are reaching certian milestones and unless I burn a fire under their butts they would do nothing!! That may chnge but for right now classical is what works for us.

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#226 of 234 Old 11-14-2005, 01:44 PM
 
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Hey, cool, a post on the OT!
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#227 of 234 Old 11-14-2005, 04:42 PM
 
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#228 of 234 Old 11-14-2005, 09:58 PM
 
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My reasons:

I believe my greater scope of life experience gives me a better idea of what is needed to get by in the world. This includes the ability to get into college. Even if my kids choose not to go to college, they will be prepared if they change their minds. I don't think the average child has any clue what kind of education is required to make a good living, and therefore the decisions about what to learn cannot be well informed.

I highly value proper grammar and the ability to write clearly.

The idea of my child not reading by, say, 7 or 8, disturbs me greatly. Even as a homeschooler, I would seek help if my child were not reading by 7.

WE need the structure, especially since we live in an area where it rains quite a bit.
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#229 of 234 Old 11-15-2005, 01:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by warriorprincess
I highly value proper grammar and the ability to write clearly.
My unschooled 7 year old uses the word "whom" properly.

Ulrike, mom to:
Roman (3/98), Evalina (3/00), Nadia (3/03), and Kira (11/07)
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#230 of 234 Old 11-15-2005, 03:09 AM
 
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Yea, and my PhD dad doesn't.

I will say, though, that my senior year honors english class in high school did SO MUCH to help with my essay writing ability.

However, that's the ONLY class that did ever help my writing. I started writing when I was 12, not because school told me to, but because I wanted to, and I went from hating (and I do mean LOATHING) to write to never going anywhere without my journal. The only thing I lost from that "late" discovery of the joy of the written word (although I /could/ write beforehand, I just /didn't/ unless /forced/) was good handwriting.

Even that I improved on my own initiative when I was 16-17. It's now legible.

Of course, none of this is to denegrate a more stuctured learning environment, just to point out that even within school (which I was), I didn't learn things like spelling or good writing until I was good and ready - and then hoo boy did I.
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#231 of 234 Old 11-15-2005, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Arwyn
I started writing when I was 12, not because school told me to, but because I wanted to, and I went from hating (and I do mean LOATHING) to write to never going anywhere without my journal. The only thing I lost from that "late" discovery of the joy of the written word (although I /could/ write beforehand, I just /didn't/ unless /forced/) was good handwriting.

Even that I improved on my own initiative when I was 16-17. It's now legible.

Of course, none of this is to denegrate a more stuctured learning environment, just to point out that even within school (which I was), I didn't learn things like spelling or good writing until I was good and ready - and then hoo boy did I.
The question I have is, do you actually equate "school" with "structured learning environment?" What you're saying makes perfect sense to me as an explanation and rationalization for home education-- that even in an ostensibly structured environment, you failed to learn certain things until you were ready to learn them. When your child is at home, they can do that regardless of your personal methodology; if you're using a classical curriculum and your child isn't ready for step B, you can keep doing step A until they are ready. Better still, you can address the issues that are preventing them from moving on and help your child work through them, which will help them not only get to step B but to C and D and so forth.

What I don't see is why something like this might necessarily lead one to believe that unschooling is the only reasonable way to go. I don't see any contradiction, I can see why someone would just say "let's keep kids out of school entirely," but I can't say that, for me, radical unschooling is the inevitable result of such a decision.

I've just started reading "Guerrilla Learning," and I have yet to read anything I disagree with, nor anything that is incompatible with classical education at home. Maybe that's in the next chapter?

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#232 of 234 Old 11-15-2005, 03:37 PM
 
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And what does this say about those homeschoolers who believe there is no definition between the two activities of playing and learning? Again, I don't think that you can define homeschooling in this way with any clarity without excluding large components of homeschoolers (unschoolers specifically).
karen
I don't think you can define homeschooling based on age either. . . . never mind, already discussed a great deal.

Also, after Arywn's long, clear response, I feel less of a need to make a comment.
thanks Arywn

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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#233 of 234 Old 11-15-2005, 04:39 PM
 
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The question I have is, do you actually equate "school" with "structured learning environment?"
I think the point of school is (nominally, at least) to provide a structured learning environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy
What I don't see is why something like this might necessarily lead one to believe that unschooling is the only reasonable way to go. I don't see any contradiction, I can see why someone would just say "let's keep kids out of school entirely," but I can't say that, for me, radical unschooling is the inevitable result of such a decision.
It doesn't, and it isn't. I'm generally a supporter of unschooling, because I've seen it in my own life (it took a couple years out of highschool to "deschool", and now I'm self-motivated once again), but I'm not diehard about it (I don't even have kids of my own yet to experiment on!), and I'm always in favor of mellow, individualized approaches. I just wanted to point out that learning things like grammer or proper writing aren't inevitable byproducts of a "structured learning environment" nor are they inaccessable without structure. I think it likely that such structure can squish some kids' desire and ability to learn it, and I think such structure can provide the only space in which other kids will be able to flourish so.

The only thing I'm radically against is lock-step "teaching" and the only thing I'm radically for is personalization. Oh, and I'm also radically in favor of moderation. But that's just me.
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#234 of 234 Old 11-15-2005, 04:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo
Also, after Arywn's long, clear response, I feel less of a need to make a comment.
thanks Arywn
Awww! You're welcome!
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