Does anyone think there are any legit & intelligent arguments against Unschooling? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 03:53 AM
 
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I think many unschoolers do things that look like "nothing". And who's to know if the family who looks like they are doing nothing may just be in a funk after several days of doing interesting things and needs down time, or maybe they are decompressing (deschooling) and it's taking longer than an outsider thinks it should....

I think it's people who don't genuinely understand unschooling who think there are problems with unschooling. It's similar to folks unfamiliar with extended breastfeeding. Every normal 2 year old has issues sometimes, but it seems like it's always the people who think nursing a toddler is weird who blame whatever normal toddler behavior on the nursing relationship, as it's what they know is going on and is something they are unfamiliar with. They say things like, "You're making him clingy by nursing him" or "You're the one trying to fulfill a need by nursing him/being selfish", when most mothers with nursing toddlers will set you straight about those common misconceptions. Same concept, different sitch.

Thus, if problems, like depression or boredom or lack of self confidence, etc, exist, it's not unschooling to blame, it is other issues, like parents learning how to offer guidance and direction, generally, or maybe lacking the support they need to care for their kids. I don't see how unschooling could cause those problems, and I don't see how changing curriculum or philosophy alone would solve them if unschooling was to blame. It's like ps folks thinking all homeschoolers should go back to school to fix themselves!!!

And what's the deal with blaming unschooling? Got a vendetta or something? What do people feel the need to blame unschooling about anyway? If people are so accepting of those "good" unschoolers, why such a need to identify and denounce "bad" unschoolers? What need is that filling? I am not understanding the point of such an argument, whether viable or not.

LillianJ did hit it on the head, now I'm going on...and on...

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#122 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 04:16 AM
 
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My underlying assumption is that a bit of structured work won't damage my kids and doesn't mean that I don't respect them.
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#123 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 04:24 AM
 
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Perhaps it comes down to how we (individually or as a group of unschoolers) define respect. Just thinking out loud....

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#124 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 04:32 AM
 
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Okay, I only made it through page 4, so this might have been mentioned somewhere already. Some states require you to be registered as homeschoolers and also require your children to take the state assessment tests. For families in these states, there is a very good chance that unschooling wouldn't work for them.

In general, I don't have a problem with unschooling. I don't think it is the best fit for my family based on our personalities (mine most definitely included, not just the kids'). However, I do believe in being guided by your children. Our history this year is quite loose in structure. We are reading alphabet books about each state (put out by Sleeping Bear Press) and then she chooses topics from each state to look into more. For instance, when we talked about Vermont, we went and bought Ben and Jerry's ice cream because she thought that was cool. When we read about Massachusetts, she fell in love with Longfellow's Ride of Paul Revere. We even printed a copy of it that we've read several times. I didn't want her to just learn the capitals and state animals and whatnot. If she learns it, great, but I wanted her to be able to get more of a feel for what makes our country the way it is.

She also chooses her activities. Our charter school offers lots of classes that I think she'd be interested in. But I don't push a class on her. And actually, the crazy thing is, the two classes that she has chosen are scrapbooking (I am a demonstrator for a stamping and scrapbooking company) and sewing (I have been making 90% of her dresses, among other things, since she was 18 months). My husband can't figure out why she goes to a class for something I can teach her at home, but she wants to go and it doesn't cost us anything, so she goes. I don't mean to imply that cost should limit, but unfortunately, it sometimes does.
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#125 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 04:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PumpkinSeeds View Post
My underlying assumption is that a bit of structured work won't damage my kids and doesn't mean that I don't respect them.

:

I have no problems with people who unschool... I dont always understand the thoughts behind the radical spectrum of unschooling or as a pp titled whole life unschooling. Personally it is just not for me.

The problem that I have is that somehow if you are not an unschooler but more relaxed eclectic or what have you....you are in violation of respecting your children. This is the thing that has turned me off to hs people I have talked to that us (mostly IRL). The notion that I choose to have some structured subjects such as math somehow means that I dont care about what my kids want is lame to say the least. I do respect my children, but i also will ask them to do some things that they may not have chosen themselves. I dont think this is wrong, or that I love/respect/value/care about their autonomy/whatever the heck less.

Just my two cents...on the flip side from one who doesnt unschool and wishes that those who do in my area could get down off their high horse and realize homeschooling can be effective in other ways without damaging your childrens self worth.

Done with my
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#126 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 05:45 AM
 
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Sorry I had to pause for my son's reading and math lessons.




I agree.

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Perhaps it comes down to how we (individually or as a group of unschoolers) define respect.
I will also venture to say that I don't think unschoolers (as a group) is the entity which determines what constitutes respect.
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#127 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 06:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
The notion that I choose to have some structured subjects such as math somehow means that I dont care about what my kids want is lame to say the least. I do respect my children, but i also will ask them to do some things that they may not have chosen themselves. I dont think this is wrong, or that I love/respect/value/care about their autonomy/whatever the heck less.
(Bold emphasis mine.) Again the difference in definition of respect. Unschoolers, by and large I would guess, don't think it's respectful to require a kid to learn or do studies that they do not wish to do. It doesn't fit our (I am being very very general in using "our" here, lol) definition of respect. Does the child have a choice? The freedom to say "No thanks. I don't want to do that right now. Another time maybe..." ? If not...if the child is made to do it regardless of how they feel about it, it doesn't feel respectful to me.

I am not saying that you do that of course. I have no idea what you would do if your child said "No. I don't want to do this at all." but when unschoolers hear about how kids don't have that freedom it doesn't often with how they define respect. So that's likely why you are running into that sentiment/POV.


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Done with my
It's good to hear from everyone!

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#128 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 06:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PumpkinSeeds View Post
Sorry I had to pause for my son's reading and math lessons.


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I will also venture to say that I don't think unschoolers (as a group) is the entity which determines what constitutes respect.
Well, that could get pretty deep if we let it. lol I mean we all get to define "respect" for ourselves in an individual way. What feels respectful to me may not be to my neighbor. But groups or communities often do come to an agreement on what things mean to/for them in a bigger picture type way. So no I don't get to decide for you what respect is in your family. I do, however, get to decide that I think requiring a non-interested kid who is clearly saying "No. I don't want to do this lesson." is not respectful.

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#129 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 11:23 AM
 
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What I have seen is parents claiming to be unschoolers but in truth are just plain lazy.
Same here. The one unschooling family I spent real time with, the kids weren't required to study anything, the parents didn't really bring up things or keep interesting things in the house, no outside classes, no real field trips to speak of. The dad worked, the mom hung out on the computer and sometimes they took the kids to the grocery store or the bookstore.

I do know relaxed homeschoolers who require math and reading and leave the rest up to their kids and that seems to work well.

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#130 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 11:59 AM
 
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You're so cool. I am so using that line. Thank you.
That makes my day!

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We're running into a little of this with the kids next door. The little girl is a full "grade level" ahead of my dd, and when my dd wasn't reading was pretty smug about it. Typical (I think) of homeschoolers, my dd just decided one day that she was going to read and is now, well, reading. Ya know? Turns out the girl missed half her summer because she was taking summer school for math. The thing is, I know the parents next door think we're crazy for homeschooling but we literally don't see their kids during the school year. It ought to be interesting, the next round of oral pop quizzes we get.
It's good to hear (from you and the other poster) that it's not that unusual.

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#131 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 12:13 PM
 
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Of course I've known wonderful homeschoolers who fit the model of not-reading-well-until-twelve-but-playing-music-professionally, etc; these children were not like those children!
So ... what if a child's a late reader without "compensating" for it by developing some other astounding professional skill? Is it only "okay" to be a late reader if the child fits the above model?

Obviously, I don't personally know these families where you say the older children are all just sitting around doing nothing all day.

I agree with the other posters who say that if things like this are really happening, it's more of a parenting issue than a style-of-schooling issue.

I don't want to act suspicious -- but if you're a mom who's busy caring for her own family, how have you found time to hang out for so many hours with these families that you obviously don't have much respect for (I mean, you probably wouldn't want them to be your own children's main social experience outside the family)?

I ask, because if you've really been spending enough time with them to know that their teenagers never. do. anything -- that's just rather a lot of hours to be clocking with these other families. Who's caring for your own children while you put in the hours?

I can understand feeling upset when you see parents who seem unresponsive to their children's needs. I've had some very critical feelings toward my friend who makes her son stay in his room, when he's been taking too long to complete an assignment. I'm critical, but I don't claim to know exactly what their lives are like every minute of every day. I'm too busy with my own family to scrutinize hers.

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#132 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 12:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by greenthumb3 View Post
Thus, if problems, like depression or boredom or lack of self confidence, etc, exist, it's not unschooling to blame, it is other issues, like parents learning how to offer guidance and direction, generally, or maybe lacking the support they need to care for their kids. I don't see how unschooling could cause those problems, and I don't see how changing curriculum or philosophy alone would solve them if unschooling was to blame. It's like ps folks thinking all homeschoolers should go back to school to fix themselves!!!

And what's the deal with blaming unschooling? Got a vendetta or something? What do people feel the need to blame unschooling about anyway? If people are so accepting of those "good" unschoolers, why such a need to identify and denounce "bad" unschoolers?
Bolding mine. If the parents aren't parenting, the problem won't be solved by purchasing a curriculum or putting the kids in public school.

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What need is that filling? I am not understanding the point of such an argument, whether viable or not.
Bolding mine again. I, also, seriously wonder what need -- or hole -- there is that needs to be filled. Maybe a new approach can fill it -- before the crucial age is passed and it's forever too late.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#133 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 12:38 PM
 
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Yes, absolutely I think there are legitimate arguments against unschooling.

For some unschoolers, I believe that they sincerely act as facilitators of their child's learning, immediately picking up on an interest and feeding that fire with resources, field trips, books, and the like.

For many more unschoolers, I believe that "unschooling" consists of activities that I personally find to be of limited (or limitING) educational value: playing video games for hours, posting 30-40 posts a day on a message board or chat room, watching television or DVDs, or, as one previous poster said, "doing nothing."

I think unschooling at its best can be delightful, but it's too easily used as a label to justify neglectful parenting, IMO.
Maybe true, but I don't see the fact that it's used to justify neglectful parenting as an argument against unschooling. Just an argument against neglectful parenting!

My experience with unschooling only goes as far as my three year old dd (so far) but it seems to me that most parents unschool those earliest years, even if it's not considered school yet, and in my experience, dd has blossomed so well this way (and learned at such an incredible rate) that I see no reason to start changing how we live and learn!

I absolutely don't think more structured homeschooling is disrespectful. To me, unschooling indicates as having better potential.

What an interesting thread--it took me two days to read through it so I could post!

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#134 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 12:53 PM
 
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Okay, I only made it through page 4, so this might have been mentioned somewhere already. Some states require you to be registered as homeschoolers and also require your children to take the state assessment tests. For families in these states, there is a very good chance that unschooling wouldn't work for them.
I'm in one of those states, Pennsylvania. I really don't see that it is going to be a problem. Ds isn't of the age yet when I need to submit a portfolio (which is age 8 here) but I honestly think that I will have no trouble looking at what he is doing and realizing what categories of learning they can be placed into. If he asks me to read a book, it'll go on the book log. If he is playing with legos, he is doing math and science. If he watches Word World, he is doing English. If we have a campfire in the back yard, he is doing the required fire safety. If we go to a moonbouce place, he is doing phys ed. If he helps me with baking, there will be more math. It really isn't that hard.

Yes, there are standardized tests every second year but they don't determine anything. Your permission to homeschool doesn't get revoked if your child doesn't meet certain standards. There are a variety of tests that can be picked so there is a little choice. The kids don't have to go someplace strange to take them.

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#135 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 01:04 PM
 
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Oh we got the pop quizes also.
I love the story about a grandma quizing about something and my friend's dd replying "Don't you know?", with a confused head tilt.


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#136 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 01:10 PM
 
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Some states require you to be registered as homeschoolers and also require your children to take the state assessment tests. For families in these states, there is a very good chance that unschooling wouldn't work for them.
There are many unschoolers in all 50 states!


Ummm..and unschoolers can take (and "pass") a test, if they want to.

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#137 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 01:12 PM
 
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Edited so as not to derail.



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#138 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 01:28 PM
 
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In thinking about this thread, I had another thought. As I child I was by no means unschooled (went to a traditional public school in the 70's and 80's). However as far as extra curricular activities went, I never "had" to do anything. I would try activities (music, sports, dance, gymnastics), and I always got bored/didn't like the challenge/or whatever and wanted to quit. My parents always let me quit, never encouraged (or insisted) that I keep at it. In hindsight I wish they had. Today I would love to play an instrument, dance, play softball, etc. Had I stuck with these things, I think it would have made the foundation for some great hobbies and enriched my life. Yes I could go out now and learn these things, but I would have preferred to learn them as a child, even if I had been gently "pushed."

Now with my own children again I fall somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't force them to stay with an activity they obviously hated (for example if they were crying when they had go, etc.). But if it was simply a matter of them not liking it so much any more, I would probably have them stay with the activity for a while longer. I'd explain that sometimes our interest in things waxes and wanes, and that sometimes we have to do things that seem "boring" (ie, practicing) to get to the really cool stuff.

OK, now I'll get off my
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#139 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 01:33 PM
 
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a bit of structured work won't damage my kids and doesn't mean that I don't respect them.
This projects that "a bit of structured work" is HOW to learn. That damages our internal knowing that we are able to learn intrinsically, imo. When we are taught that we can not learn without direction from an external source, we start believing that we must be taught. Example A, are those folks who actually believe this about their children, and themselves.

What does one do if you want to learn something? I don't have to have "a bit of structured work" from an external source. I ask, I investigate, I inquire, I research, I explore, I discover, I question. Learning is an active process of seeking. "A bit of structured work" isn't learning. And it does waste time when Real Learning could be occurring organically. But, learning happens all the time. I don't want ds to "learn" that he must be taught. Folks talk about how their children should "do work". But, that is a cultural construct that "doing learning" must be able to be observed, measured, directed. THAT is the result of not observing how we learn! And believing that one must be taught. I firmly believe that learning is an internal process, not something that is done to, or done for, someone.


IMO, if we interfere with organic learning, "learn how to learn" or "know how to know" are obstructed.

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Knowing how to learn about something you want or need information about seems so much more important to me than requiring someone to learn all the stuff you've decided is important for them.
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#140 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 01:39 PM
 
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or that I love/respect/value/care about their autonomy/whatever the heck less.
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I will also venture to say that I don't think unschoolers (as a group) is the entity which determines what constitutes respect.
I believe that only the child can determine if they feel love/respect/value/care, autonomy. Thus, why I believe respect is treating people how they wish to be treated.


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#141 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 01:57 PM
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Maybe true, but I don't see the fact that it's used to justify neglectful parenting as an argument against unschooling. Just an argument against neglectful parenting! !
Here's the problem. I call it the Kopi Luwak issue.

Some explanation: Kopi Luwak is an extraordinarily expensive coffee, expensive in part because of the unusual preparation technique: the coffee beans pass through the digestive tract of the luwak, a creature similar to the civet. The cat eats the outer covering of the coffee beans, and some interaction with its digestive acids imparts a rare and unusually desirable flavor to the ejected beans.

Bottom line, though, when you peel away all the esoteric-sounding gourmet coffee wordporn about nutty flavors with overtones of musk, what you're drinking is coffee that came out of a cat's butt.

Similarly, some neglectful parents can pass off their educational and parental neglect of their child by dressing it up with an esoteric-sounding philosophy of education and parenting such as, "In our family we practice demonstrating respect for our child's unique educational needs by allowing them to explore and learn from their life experiences, permitting them to learn at their own schedule and learn only what they want in order to foster an atmosphere of intellectual freedom," when basically, when you peel away that esoteric-sounding edporn about academic freedom, what you really have is a child who spends most of the day on a message board or chat room, playing Doom or WoW, helping Mom fold the laundry, or watching television.
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#142 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 02:01 PM
 
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when you peel away that esoteric-sounding edporn about academic freedom, what you really have is a child who spends most of the day on a message board or chat room, playing Doom or WoW, helping Mom fold the laundry, or watching television.
Is that a problem?

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#143 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
I love the story about a grandma quizing about something and my friend's dd replying "Don't you know?", with a confused head tilt.


Pat
Oh, that's ever so much funnier than my comment from the other day! I gotta use that one.

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#144 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 02:15 PM
 
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I believe that only the child can determine if they feel love/respect/value/care, autonomy.
I think this presupposes a psychologically and emotionally healthy child.

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#145 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 02:27 PM
 
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As I child I was by no means unschooled (went to a traditional public school in the 70's and 80's). However as far as extra curricular activities went, I never "had" to do anything. I would try activities (music, sports, dance, gymnastics), and I always got bored/didn't like the challenge/or whatever and wanted to quit. My parents always let me quit, never encouraged (or insisted) that I keep at it. In hindsight I wish they had. Today I would love to play an instrument, dance, play softball, etc. Had I stuck with these things, I think it would have made the foundation for some great hobbies and enriched my life. Yes I could go out now and learn these things, but I would have preferred to learn them as a child, even if I had been gently "pushed."
Well, I also quit a lot of stuff and didn't stick with anything very long. But rather than wishing my parents had gently pushed me to stick with some extracurricular activity, I wish my whole week hadn't already been so chock-full of required stuff, that when it came time for, say, Saturday morning bowling, I was just wishing I could sleep in and have the morning to fiddle around and do whatever I wanted.

Playing in band meant going to school even earlier in the morning for rehearsals -- and periodically having to return to school for an evening performance.

Every extracurricular activity I tried, required me to give up even more of my already severely limited free-time. I think if I'd had more free-time (and not more gentle or not-so-gentle pushing -- which, incidentally, I did get), I would have looked forward to having a couple of regularly scheduled activities throughout the week.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#146 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 02:40 PM
 
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This projects that "a bit of structured work" is HOW to learn.
Thanks for interjecting that. When I want to learn something, I don't go about it through "structured work" - I just go about learning it. It could feel like work at times, but I sure won't be putting myself through some structured sort of work process - I'll just go directly into learning in whatever way seems to be working for me.

OT: Funny - that old Dire Straits song just come to mind! "Now, that aint workin'...thats the way you do it..." (a blast from the past for anyone who needs a musical chuckle break: Money for Nothin')

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#147 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 02:42 PM
 
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...when basically, when you peel away that esoteric-sounding edporn about academic freedom, what you really have is a child who spends most of the day on a message board or chat room, playing Doom or WoW, helping Mom fold the laundry, or watching television.
I'm with 4evermom: I just don't see the problem here.

I'm learning a tremendous amount on message-boards: it's actually the first regular writing I've done in a long time.

I'm not personally drawn to computer games (I guess because I'd rather be "discussing") -- but I watch my dd's playing and see a whole lot of thinking and learning going on. We all learn a variety of things from TV, and it stimulates lots of conversations about various issues.

And helping around the house stimulates a whole lot of real-life learning, that I think some kids who are gone all day miss out on. I, for one, had no idea of all the work that went into running a house 'til I moved out on my own. All the things that seemed "self-cleaning," were in reality getting cleaned when I was at school.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#148 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 02:47 PM
 
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I think this presupposes a psychologically and emotionally healthy child.

dm
Are you saying that you don't believe that a "psychologically and emotionally unhealthy" person (by whose definition?) could not determine if they feel love/respect/value/care, autonomy?

Who could determine if a person feels love/respect/value/care, autonomy, but herself?


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#149 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 02:52 PM
 
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I am still reading one of the links recommended yesterday, I'm on page 13 my gosh it is a lot of information.

Please bear with my longwinded ramblings, so many thoughts going on and I want to get them all out.

ANyway I was thinking about this all lastnight and how is is not showing respect to "force" a child to do school work or really anything they don't want to. It had me wondering if as unschoolers you require your children to do chores around the house or if you just pick up after them. I do not know many children who *want* to clean up (after 19 years in daycare working with ages birth through 12 plus my own kids and babysitting, I have worked with thousands of kids over the years). My children are no exception, They do not *want* to haul out the trash for garbage day, or pick up their toys, or make thier beds, heck my 9 year old does not want to take a bath/shower or brush his teeth. I "force" them to do these things. They are part of this family and they will help with the chores this family has. I still do 95% of the work around here, and I guarantee I don't want to, but part of growing up is learning that sometimes you just have to do something even if you don't want to or don't like it. The same can be said for so much. Out in the work force, there will be time s a boss asks them to complete a job that they perhaps find boring or don't want to do right then, but tough luck, you suck it up and get it done, their boss doesn't care if they want to do it or not. Even in a career that is your passion which I have working in childcare their is still tasks I'd rather not do, but saying no and skipping them is not an option. My kids best get used to that now, the world is not going to cater to their whims. They are free to learn whatever they want in ADDITION to the curric that is laid out as that is their job right now.

In my home when it comes to extra curric's for example, my kids can choose what they want to try, but they have to finish it through to the end of the session/season. IMO they have taken that spot away from a child who would have stuck with it and let down their team etc if they suddenly quit. They never have to take it again if they don't want to. FUnny thing about this, my son has played baseball for 3 years now, mid season every year he claims he wants to quit because he isn't learning anything new. I make him stick with it, by the end of season he has learned a new skill, his team has won the tournament, yet again, and he is passionate about the sport. We have done this every year for 3 years. If I had not made him stick with it the first season he would not have learned how much he loves it, or felt the joy over winning that trophy, or seen me cry when he brought in the winning run. That said when he was in soccer I let him quit the first half of the season(it was indoor soccer so 10 month long season), not because he hated the sport but because the coach was emotionally abusive to my son. SO I do not force them t stay in unhealthy situations.

I wonder too how many of you make your child go to the dentist, or get vax'd, etc these are not fun experiences for kids, again I have never known one that wanted to do them, but for their health it was important to do so regardless. Is it disrespectful to make them go? They certianly would have been happier if I just left them alone. What about medical interventions? My son requires daily medication to function, he would be more than happy to never touch the stuff again, he does not want to take it. IMO it is not an option to stop taking it if I want the best outcomes for him.

To me their education is no different. They have no choice in whether or not we seek medical attention, or take vitamins, or whether they do chores, or even what is served for meals, they eat what is served or they wait until the next meal, it is not a restaurant. Over all I work with their interests, but whether or not they want to be doing schoolwork is not an option. My son still goes through bouts of not wanting to try anything new because he thinks he is "stupid", I make him do the work, with the attitude of tough luck, suck it up and do the best you can. I do not expect perfection, I am working on him seeing that doing the best you can is all he can do and not to beat himself up if it is not perfect. Case in point, he usually hates writing, common for many boys his age. So I had him start making comic books. While he did that to help to get his creative thoughts on paper he still had to do dictation and writing exercises for me to build up is sentence and paragraph composition. Last night he asked if he wrote a book if I would take it to be bound. To which I answered yes of course. Writing a book is not required by me, whether he does so or not is up to him, I will encourage him to do so. In the meantime I will continue to work with his writing level with dictation and writing exercises. Even if he writes me 10 books we will still work with other writing styles since short stories is only 1 genre.

There may be many misconceptions about unschooling, but I think there is just as many about homeschooling by the unschoolers. From waht I have been reading onthis thread and the other is that if you are not unschooling you are imposing a rigid, inflexible program on your child based on your own interests. From my experience with my own family and fromtime spent with other hser's there is very few families that have that rigidity. MOSt of us may use curriculum and expect our children to complete assignments etc BUT we build on their interests as well. So my son will write his comics or his new book and he will still follow my curric for writing in other styles. I do not feel it is disrespectful to worry about his over all education and want it to be well rounded as opposed to allowing him to focus only on one thing all the time.

As for the question about how much time is spent with the unschooling families to know what they are really doing. THe one family that I consider the most lazy, was my boss and friend, I saw her daily at work, I spoke with her daily outside of work, our kids were best friends and say each other often. In addition to what I witnessed daily is also what she told me about how little they did, or how they spent their days. Another one I mentioned I admit I did not see often, I spoke with her online daily, she is actually the one that told me she calls herself a lazy schooler because she does nothing with her boys. They leave her alone because they are on video games all day and she likes the quiet. NOw they have been doing alot of travelling this year so they are doing something now. It was her son that was 10 who still couldn't read, she told me the reason was he had never asked her to show him how so she never bothered to bring it up. The rest are in my homeschool support group, so no I don't see what their families are like day in and day out, I can only go based on what they THEMSELVES have said about what they do and do not do with their children. None of them spoke of doing the types of things you ladies have with your children, the kids could describe in detail the goings on of the various soap operas though. And the parents often complained the kids were bored and had nothing to do, but because they were unschoolers they didn't want to suggest things to them. The one with the chlidren who went back to school and were years behind, made it seem funny they were so behind and stuck with her belief that as an unschooler at heart she could not help them catch up to their peers, they would do it on their own if they wanted to.

Brandy Single momma to A(11), C(10), H(6) and I(2)
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#150 of 408 Old 01-11-2008, 03:06 PM
 
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I wonder too how many of you make your child go to the dentist, or get vax'd, etc these are not fun experiences for kids, again I have never known one that wanted to do them, but for their health it was important to do so regardless.
Question your assumptions. You are on MDC.



Quote:
They have no choice in whether or not we seek medical attention, or take vitamins, or whether they do chores, or even what is served for meals, they eat what is served or they wait until the next meal...

Some of us "respect" our children differently than your description. Ds has choice in whether or not he seeks medical attention, or takes vitamins, or whether he does chores, or even what he is served for meals.


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The one with the children who went back to school and were years behind, made it seem funny they were so behind and stuck with her belief that as an unschooler at heart she could not help them catch up to their peers, they would do it on their own if they wanted to.
Did the child desire her help? She refused?

Oh, and I learned a lot about socio-cultural dynamics from soap operas as a teen. I believe it was an aspect of developing my passion about the alternative of living consensually. We are learning all the time!


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