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Old 03-24-2008, 03:33 PM
 
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I posted this on another unschooling group and accidentally stirred up a stink. I'll tell you all and, hopefully, won't upset anyone. E was asking about when Christmas was going to come again so I started to name and count the months from now until Christmas on my fingers. All of a sudden, he held up both hands and said, "Will it be 10 months?" He had done addition without any type of math lesson at all! So very cool. This is not a brag about him or a fish for compliments. It's an endorsement of unschooling.
<scratching head> Were you supposed to have just told him the answer with out counting the months or something? I'd have to recite the months to figure it out, myself.

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Old 03-24-2008, 03:50 PM
 
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Brag away MarineWife! That's so neat. What were they ticked about? That he isn't made to do lessons or that you were proud? Either way they are silly. And that's as nice as I can be about that. lol

We made cookies at 1 am and they make a darn good breakfast.

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Old 03-24-2008, 04:25 PM
 
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Well it has gone back to being cold and gross here, so we are back in lockdown...

We didn't have an easter dinner this year as everyone was just to tired from demolition to host it....lol. The easter bunny did come though so the kids were happy about that. My 4 yo asked me at dinner if the easter bunny had to eat special foods to poop chocolat or if he just put a lot of chocolat eggs up his bum before easter.....ahhhhh, the so begins the age of reason.

We did venture out this morning so DS could buy the TMNT figure he has been saving up for. They were sold out of the blue one at Zellers (which of course is the one we HAD to have) so we had to drive across town to toysrus to get it......But DS is super happy and he brought his bag of loonies (1$ coins ) and counted them out to the checker.........

Can someone please explain the apeal od animae to me? You all seem to enjoy it. DS is obsessed with all things pokemon. Ive watched a bit of the movies with him and they just seem really stupid to me. He's also been taking the books out of the library and again I just dont' get it, they seem incredibly boring and I can barely follow the plot due to the bad writing, DS never has any idea what's going on he just likes the battles/animals........Is there better animae out there that is ok for little kids? Really reading those books is killing me sloooooooowly........
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Old 03-24-2008, 05:07 PM
 
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i think pokemon is one of the tamest things in anime world actually. i like that it's a complete universe, so well thought out and consistent. i think the pokemon are cute and dd likes that you don't kill pokemon when you battle. it's just to get stronger and win badges or maybe to help your pokemon to level up or evolve. i will admit i am way into pokemon too. and i like anime. maybe someone who isn't sooo into it would care to comment.
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Old 03-24-2008, 05:10 PM
 
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oh forgot to add, the books can be crappy, yes. but we keep that a small part of the whole pokeuniverse. i think the books aren't all written by the same person and also they are based on the shows or concept rather than the other way around. like, when a movie based on a book becomes popular, they somtimes re-release the book but abridged and badly written (example: the narnia booklets you can get in cereal boxes)?
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Old 03-24-2008, 05:37 PM
 
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Brag away MarineWife! That's so neat. What were they ticked about? That he isn't made to do lessons or that you were proud?
I think a few people got upset that I was excited about it. They are unschoolers, too, so they thought I shouldn't be keeping score like schools do. I wasn't, though. I didn't say anything to my ds about what he did. I'm not really sure.

I don't understand the draw of anime, either. I can't stand it. My oldest ds was into Pokemon back in the mid to late 90s. As he got older he got into more mature anime. Inuyasha first. I think that was a TV show, too. I haven't seen it lately. Love Hina was another one he really liked. It's rather racy. The covers have pics of girls in skimpy bikinis. My 4yo has just recently discovered Pokemon and loves it. Every ball he has is a pokemon ball and he wants his big brothers cards, which is ok with big brother except that he left them at a friend's house. I was surprised to find out that even at 16-19yo these boys were playing with Pokemon cards. E got some cards for Easter. He tried to get me to play but I couldn't remember how it worked so we ended up just throwing cards at each other while yelling.

There's been a lot of discussion recently about Pokemon on a yahoo unschooling group I subscribe to. People were explaining how the kids on Pokemon lead very unschooly lives. Maybe that's part of the draw. The kids are basically in charge of their own lives. Any adults are sort of peripheral. That how it seems to be with all the anime I know of. Someone mentioned how one can learn a lot of science related info with Pokemon. It's not necessarily accurate in the names of the characters and such but the ideas of how they grow and change and evolve in the same way that creatures grow and change and evolve in nature. There was a lot of other stuff but I can't remember it all. It's made me look at it much differently. I hated it when my oldest ds got into it. I jumped quickly on the, "Oh, that's awful violence," bandwagon. I remember the schools banning Pokemon cards from the grounds. Man, was I an idiot!

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Old 03-24-2008, 07:58 PM
 
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Yeah, I think there's some misconception that unschoolers can't be proud of anything they've accomplished. Strange eh?

My kids love anime, particularly Ds. He started out liking Pokemon and Digimon as a young guy (7-10) and then he moved on to more mature styles like Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop (best anime ever in his opinion), and some others. He's watched a few that I liked (Witch Hunter Robin), but overall it's not my thing really.

Ds says he likes the art style and the freedom for expressions, bodies, etc. He also likes that there is a lot of drama, fighting, and there are more heavy or "darker" themes than one finds in Disney or American animation overall.

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Old 03-24-2008, 08:38 PM
 
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I forgot about Digimon. R got into that also.

It is so very cool to see that my boy is learning all the things that the naysayers say he can't learn without lessons. He's beginning to read and write. He read the word "library" a few weeks ago totally out of the blue. I can't remember if I mentioned that here. He's also spontaneously matched letters to there sounds. We were doing pat-a-cake and he marked me with an "m" for mommy. I'm pretty surprised that he's doing this so early. I know none of this means that he'll suddenly be reading books and writing essays and working out complex math problems. I don't expect that. It's very fun to see him get this stuff in his own time. I make a note of stuff like that for my dh so he can see that the kids will learn all that "school" stuff that he's worried about.

That is strange that we can't be excited or proud of what we see our children accomplish. Something was brought up about the things I mentioned being academic. So, I looked up the definition of the word. Academic means of or pertaining to school. I wouldn't consider reading, writing and doing basic math academic in that sense. It's something we do in the world at large. It is not exclusive to the school setting. It would become academic if we started doing formal lessons but not if it's done spontaneously.

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Old 03-25-2008, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That is strange that we can't be excited or proud of what we see our children accomplish. Something was brought up about the things I mentioned being academic. So, I looked up the definition of the word. Academic means of or pertaining to school. I wouldn't consider reading, writing and doing basic math academic in that sense. It's something we do in the world at large. It is not exclusive to the school setting. It would become academic if we started doing formal lessons but not if it's done spontaneously.
: my DD learned all the letters in english and hebrew at 18mo. she just taught herself and spent hours happily reading out letters, and then sounding out words, and spelling stuff. when she was about 2yo, she got over it, and didn't do much of anything read-y till recently. now she's about to turn 5 and still not effectively reading. but that's fine. she might not read for another 5 years, but when she does, it will be because she wants to and when she's ready.

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Old 03-25-2008, 12:49 AM
 
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Can someone please explain the apeal od animae to me? You all seem to enjoy it. DS is obsessed with all things pokemon. Ive watched a bit of the movies with him and they just seem really stupid to me. He's also been taking the books out of the library and again I just dont' get it, they seem incredibly boring and I can barely follow the plot due to the bad writing, DS never has any idea what's going on he just likes the battles/animals........Is there better animae out there that is ok for little kids? Really reading those books is killing me sloooooooowly........
Ds wanted to point out that Pokemon books are largely based on Pokemon manga (comics) which are based on the anime, which are based on the video games. So, the plots don't always (never, imho) make sense.

Ds has been trying to think of a substitute for Pokemon, but finding an anime that is a) dubbed instead of subtitled, b) not terribly violent and c) doesn't require long explanations of Japanese puns or other cultural information has turned out to be pretty hard

Ds is a huge fan of anime and manga (he informed me today he's an otaku), but I'm not necessarily a huge fan myself. We went through a long poke-phase and I know I'm glad it's long done and gone (the breaking point for me was when ds asked me "who would win in a fight, fork-mon or spoon-mon" over breakfast) Pokemon (and Digimon, Bey Blade, etc) are kind of the low-end, mass market version of anime. There is some truly beautiful stuff out there, like Mushishi

Most anime is pretty violent, or has a lot of sexual references (if I never have to see another incredibly skinny school girl in a way too short school uniform again, it will still be too soon) and even the stuff that doesn't have that kind of things in it, it's still filled with lots of puns and obscure references and takes a while to understand what's going on (if you ever do understand what's going on, I watched Potemayo with ds today, I'm still trying to figure what it's about :

UnschoolMa, ds was reminded of how much he wants to see Evangelion and Cowboy BeBop after I mentioned your post (anime is his main interest these days, so any anime reference is big to him )
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:54 AM
 
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D (age 6) wanted to know what a mammal was so I explained it to her and we both took turns listing animals that we knew were mammals. I then asked her about which ones that weren't mammals. We have a leapfrog globe and she's gotten very good at playing the countries game. We even have "championship" games where we have to find each country that is called out. R (age 9) is into piratesonline.com, super smash bros brawl, and webkinz. He's also been interested in death and heaven.
I (age 10 mos) is saying mama and papa. She can clap her hands. She's starting to take a couple of steps before falling. Oh, and she eats everything in sight!

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Old 03-27-2008, 11:01 AM
 
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I think a few people got upset that I was excited about it. They are unschoolers, too, so they thought I shouldn't be keeping score like schools do.
Being excited/proud is NOT keeping score! They are confused. Would they not react to their baby learning to walk? If unschooling embraces *all* learning, then responding to some kinds but not others seems hypocritical.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:02 PM
 
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We spent the whole afternoon yesterday at the Florida Aquarium in Tampa, and the day before that at The Lowry Zoo. My favorite part was sitting outside at the aquarium drinking wine from the tiki bar thing while my youngest played in their little water park. We learned stuff (horrors!) but we also were wondering why we put up with so much winter. : I don't want to go home. A few more days here and it's back to waiting for spring snowstorms.

I feel like crying just thinking about it. It's amazing what sun and warmth can do to a person's mental health. I really, really do not want to go back to the cold.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:04 PM
 
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Being excited/proud is NOT keeping score! They are confused. Would they not react to their baby learning to walk? If unschooling embraces *all* learning, then responding to some kinds but not others seems hypocritical.
I've been thinking about this more and I think I may know why someone people responded to what I said the way they did. First, I'm not sure they were responding to me rather than responding to a response that was basically a high-five to me. Anyway, I put this stuff out as "proof" that my child was learning. I put the word proof in parenthases because I don't believe that's the only way to exhibit learning but it's what other people sometimes want. I don't know about you all but I hear (and wonder myself sometimes) questions a lot about how they will learn to read or do math without lessons. So, I think it may have been that I called it proof of learning that upset some even though I didn't mean it the way it may have looked. Oh well. Not really a big deal, I guess.

UUMom ~ I have to have warmth and sunshine. I'm pretty convinced I suffer from seasonal affect disorder. I tend to get rather depressed in the winter months but feel absolutely wonderful when it's warm. I so enjoy sitting in the sun and soaking up it's warmth that I can't even describe the feeling, physically, psychologically and emotionally, I get from it.

We celebrated my birthday Tuesday. E and dh made me a cake. We're going to try Square Foot Gardening. My dh is going to make the box this weekend and E and I will fill in the soil and pick vegies and such to plant. I'm very excited!

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Old 03-27-2008, 08:40 PM
 
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MarineWife-- we do square foot gasrdening and it's wonderful! I think you are going to fall in love with this way of gardening. It's so productive!! And easy!

As for the warmth. I sat outside today & watched peacocks for about an hour at Wiki Wachee...lol...and took the boat ride on the spring. Maybe I am crazy, but it was one of the nicest nature days I've had in a while. The sun, the warmth, the absolutely gorgeous river..away from the strips and walmarts. I didn't even know there was something so lovely right here in the wilds of Publix and Walgreens.

I always do the right thing...but I am thisclose to grabbing my homeschoolers and running off and letting dh deal with the schooler & animals for a couple more weeks. Isn't that evil? Nobody likes to leave a vacation, I know. But my heart races thinking about going back to the cold. I've visited our family n Florida a million times before, but this is the first time I have been in such nearly physical pain thinking of going back to winter. I want to have an emotional break down and be left here with my hsers.

Would it be wrong to fake a total breakdown? :
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:49 PM
 
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We spent the whole afternoon yesterday at the Florida Aquarium in Tampa, and the day before that at The Lowry Zoo.
We used to live across the bridge from Tampa -- we loved the FL Aquarium!

We've had a depressing week dealing with the aftermath of an incident in the early hours of Sunday morning. Both our vehicles (along with several others--all unoccupied, thank goodness) were hit by a drunk driver (it's on-street parking on our road). I posted about it in TAO. We'd planned a day trip to Hadrian's Wall, but instead were stranded at home. My car was written off, and we're waiting to hear about dh's van. We'll be surprised if it's not also a write off.

The unexpected 6 inches of snow we woke up to on Sunday was a small consolation. We found out that England actually is more likely to have a white Easter than a white Christmas. Dd built snow bunnies all over the back yard.

Ds was out most of today riding BMX with a friend, and dd was feeling artistic. She made a chart where she wrote the names of all the colors/patterns that horses can be, and painted an example of each. Then she made a really lovely painting of a peacock.

Some friends picked us up this evening to go toad collecting again, but the temperature dropped very quickly after sunset and when we arrived the guides said it was too cold. If it's below 46 degrees, the toads stay under cover. They've not collected nearly the numbers they should have by this date, so there are hundreds of toads waiting to come out and they'll need all the volunteers they can get when it eventually warms up. We're standing by...

edited to add that our sunflower seedlings are several inches high, and the dragon fruit seeds have sprouted! They're tiny -- not even 1/2 and inch and we planted them at the same time as the sunflowers.
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Being excited/proud is NOT keeping score! They are confused. Would they not react to their baby learning to walk? If unschooling embraces *all* learning, then responding to some kinds but not others seems hypocritical.
Actually I used to have a friend who was so anti-praise of any kind, that when I was sitting with her one day and her DD took her first few steps, I was so excited, and her DD looked so pleased with herself, I did a little "woohoo!" and clapped. Her DD looked, to me, positively set to bust with happiness, but the mama got really annoyed with me and gave me this huge talking to about how praise is so bad and we can't make a big fuss over every little thing she did.
yeah, coz a baby's first walk is no biggie.
She insisted that her DD's big grin and shiny eyes was actually a look of "hey, why do you need to applaud me? I knew I could do it". I'm sure she knows her baby better than I do
I guess our friendship started dissolving after that but hey, some people really don't want to show any praise or encouragement at all.

nomadmom, sorry to hear about the loss of your cars. does the drunk driver's insurance cover it?

uumom, come and stay with us ahhh, sweet tropical paradise.

We are getting prepared for our big 3 month trip to Israel, China and Thailand. We leave in a week :

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Old 03-28-2008, 12:59 PM
 
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I'm too old for this. Ds woke up at 5. Couldn't sleep because of a stuffy nose. We've been playing war with nerf guns off and on all morning. He's heckling me to get back to it. I have the cold, too, so am tired. Is it nap time yet?

:yawning:

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Old 03-28-2008, 04:26 PM
 
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We are getting prepared for our big 3 month trip to Israel, China and Thailand. We leave in a week :
Wow, 3 months! Sounds very exciting.

nomadmom ~ Sorry about the vehicles. Thank goodness no people were hurt.

It's beautiful here today. It's supposed to get up to 80 F. I have to enjoy it now because it's supposed to go back to the 50s tomorrow. After K's morning nap we went for a walk. I've been walking at least 5 days a week for 3 weeks now to lose this left over baby fat. I've lost a whole pound! We ended up at the park but it wasn't much fun because there weren't any other kids there. Too early in the day, I guess.

I'm sensitive to the praise thing. I try not to praise my kids for most things. Instead, I try to acknowledge their personal joy in their accomplishments. I heard someone tell her child "good job" for sliding down a slide once and thought that was so peculiar. My dh doesn't get why I don't think it's good to praise. He thinks kids need to praise in order to feel good about what they do. He's also very caught up in what other people think, always trying to impress others. Most of the time, I couldn't care less what others think.

Oh, for example. This is funny. Yesterday our 4yo decided he wanted to wear a diaper so he would get a rash and need some baby powder (that I never use on anyone). DH came home in the middle of the day and was totally confused. When ds said he was only going to wear a t-shirt and the diaper when we went on our walk I thought dh was going to pass out. I thought, "Whatever. That's cool cuz now he's already half dressed." hehe

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Old 03-28-2008, 05:54 PM
 
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I'm sensitive to the praise thing. I try not to praise my kids for most things. Instead, I try to acknowledge their personal joy in their accomplishments.
I understand this, and feel the same, but I'm not (nor is the person who first posted about the cold reaction of other unschoolers) talking about praise. I'm referring to a normal, natural human reaction of excitement or pleasure in observing children do something they haven't done before (and that they themselves are pleased about).

Imo, praise generally has an agenda (ie, the parent wants the child to repeat the behavior). Clapping and squealing in genuine delight as your baby takes his/her first steps is nothing like the cheesy, over-the-top, "good jobs" for every day mundane tasks. Same goes for a sincere, "Wow! I didn't know you could do that," when your kid figures out reading, or shoe tying or whatever.

Wouldn't suppressing real feelings be just as artificial as smothering a child with insincere praise?
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:34 PM
 
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I understand this, and feel the same, but I'm not (nor is the person who first posted about the cold reaction of other unschoolers) talking about praise. I'm referring to a normal, natural human reaction of excitement or pleasure in observing children do something they haven't done before (and that they themselves are pleased about).

Imo, praise generally has an agenda (ie, the parent wants the child to repeat the behavior). Clapping and squealing in genuine delight as your baby takes his/her first steps is nothing like the cheesy, over-the-top, "good jobs" for every day mundane tasks. Same goes for a sincere, "Wow! I didn't know you could do that," when your kid figures out reading, or shoe tying or whatever.

Wouldn't suppressing real feelings be just as artificial as smothering a child with insincere praise?
Absolutely. ITA. BTW, I was the OP on the cold reaction of other unschoolers to my ds' accomplishments.

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Old 03-28-2008, 09:37 PM
 
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BTW, I was the OP on the cold reaction of other unschoolers to my ds' accomplishments.
Sorry I'm such a dork, lol! I'm feeling a little bit ranty today, probably partially because I'm stressed about the car situation (yes, the drunk driver's insurance is paying). I just get frustrated at the idea of a child never hearing a word of encouragement or celebration because his/her parents have the mistaken idea that reaction=praise=manipulation. I agree with you that you can share in their joy at their accomplishments without getting all gushy and fake.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:06 PM
 
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Sorry I'm such a dork, lol! I'm feeling a little bit ranty today, probably partially because I'm stressed about the car situation (yes, the drunk driver's insurance is paying). I just get frustrated at the idea of a child never hearing a word of encouragement or celebration because his/her parents have the mistaken idea that reaction=praise=manipulation. I agree with you that you can share in their joy at their accomplishments without getting all gushy and fake.
Don't worry about it. I didn't take it personally. I certainly do think it's important to share our child(ren)'s joy and excitement over whatever they may do or discover or experience rather than praising them so they will behave the way we want. Glad about the insurance.

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Old 03-29-2008, 09:52 AM
 
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Don't worry about it. I didn't take it personally. I certainly do think it's important to share our child(ren)'s joy and excitement over whatever they may do or discover or experience rather than praising them so they will behave the way we want. Glad about the insurance.
Thanks. And when I said I was feeling ranty, it wasn't directed at you or anyone else here. I was speaking about the type of parents several people had posted about who seemed to think that *any* kind of reaction was anti-unschooling. Any way, I think you get me, so I'll shut up now.
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:25 PM
 
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Thanks. And when I said I was feeling ranty, it wasn't directed at you or anyone else here. I was speaking about the type of parents several people had posted about who seemed to think that *any* kind of reaction was anti-unschooling. Any way, I think you get me, so I'll shut up now.
Yep, no worries

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Old 04-01-2008, 02:47 AM
 
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ladies, someone start an april thread, b/c i'm new around here and want to jump in w/ a fresh start
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ladies, someone start an april thread, b/c i'm new around here and want to jump in w/ a fresh start
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...php?p=10902073
done

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