How to discuss non-circ with DH? - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-23-2003, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, I am reading the "experts" forum and came across her solution to how to discuss the non-circ issue with your husband.
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Now, how do you educate your husband? First, may I suggest what one mother found effective with her husband. She went to www.nocirc.org (especially see "Important Articles" and NOCIRC Publications) and www.cirp.org and found specific articles that she wanted her husband to read. She printed out the messages that rang true to her. She enlarged them with her copy machine and printed them out. She took the enlarged text and attached it to the wall opposite the toilet of the family bathroom. That way, her husband was initiated to the information without confrontation. When sitting on the throne, he simply read the text. She changed the message several times over the next few weeks. Then, she began hearing her husband on the telephone with his friends, telling them about the issue. Not from Susan's words but from his own.

italic

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Personally I would find this offensive someone leaving "messages" taped to a wall.

How can you discuss this issue in a more respectful way?
Any DH's out there who chose not to circ who are circ'ed and how did you reach this decision?
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Old 11-24-2003, 01:37 AM
 
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Just in case none answer, here are a few:

Vulnerability of men

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

Raising Our Sons Intact - support from circumcised fathers of intact sons

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/Like-Son.htm

http://www.noharmm.org/raising.htm
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Old 11-24-2003, 01:48 AM
 
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i was more interested in persuasion than tippy-toeing around it afraid to offend, & i can be very persuasive when i am so undeniably *correct*! we talked about the issue long before we conceieved any sons, so there were no surprises.

i think taping up a message for toilet reading material, for a certain kind of husband that might appreciate this approach shows an admirable ingenuity, but if yours wouldn't i'm sure you know him best. personally, i'm more into just talking honestly & straightforwardly about issues that are important to me.

i think my dh would say that upon reflection of the evidence it was pretty self-evident. i don't know if he would've needed my help 'reflecting' by the time we had kids if we hadn't already discussed it; he is a thoughtful person for the most part and i don't think likely to countenence unnecessary pain for babies.

to me, the most respectful way to discuss this is to give one's dh the benefit of the doubt and just talk to him reasonably, the way you would discuss anything of import (faith, job changes, etc.) i don't know that any particular technique is needed if your info is good and your heart is pure

good luck! suse
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Old 11-24-2003, 02:24 AM
 
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Once I started to research the issue and learn exactly how awful circumcision is I basically told my dh that he would circumcise our ds over my dead body. It was simply non-negotiable. My dh is a good, compassionate, caring man but I think with another dw he would have circed without questioning it. Fortunately he didn't fight me on it at all, once he saw how important it was to me.

We've had a lot of conversations about it and although he thinks circ without anesthesia is wrong he still sees "cultural" value to it. : I think he has a really hard time with the idea that there is something wrong with his penis. He refuses to accept the fact that his sex life and his sexual abilities/sensations are less than they might otherwise be. (Not that I go around criticizing, you understand, but by saying "this is what it does to a person" he extrapolates to apply it to himself and rejects that it can be "that bad").

Really, I think it depends on your dh. Whatever you do, try not to imply that your sex life with him is less than it could be - but get him to read the Mothering articles by Dr. Paul Fless, and What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision by Fleiss. The Mothering articles are a great starting place.

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Old 11-24-2003, 03:46 AM
 
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Taping it to the bathroom wall?!
Um, let's see, when I first found out we were expecting a son, I started doing research. Not quite sure why, I guess I was just "led" to. My dh is circ'd and he wanted our ds to be also. I did alot of research on the internet and printed out articles for dh to read and I remember having many conversations with him about it. We had actually even looked into having it done at 8 days old when the "pain threshold is higher" but found out insurance wouldn't cover it then and decided that it wasn't worth it to have it done. We were pretty broke at the time too and couldn't afford to have it done outside of the hospital. So, I came to the conclusion that we would leave him "as is" even though dh really wanted him circ'd. His arguement wasn't "matching" him, but the cleanliness factor. He said he'd been in the field once with an intact man (don't know HOW he knew that he was intact! :LOL ) and that his friend ended up leaving because of an infection. I know they don't get a shower everyday when they are in the field, but come on. That isn't a great reason to give your newborn surgery!!! So, I said there's a chance ds won't even go into the military and be in that situation so it wouldn't matter anyway. Point is... ds is now 25 months old and INTACT. My dh doesn't have a problem with it at all. I don't have a problem with dh being circ'd but I certainly didn't feel like it was something I wanted to do to ds.
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Old 11-24-2003, 08:23 AM
 
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My dh is super easy going. He knew before we had kids that in no way would I allow a son of mine to be cut for no reason. When we found out he was a boy, we were in a group of people and someone brought it up. Me, being a loudmouth advocate, went on and on....LOL......I think dh was embarassed and they said "you are going to let her make your son have a "turtleneck"? When we got home I made him come look at a bunch of research so that it was "our" decision and not just mine (although under no circumstances would I allow my child to be harmed for no reason, I just made him THINK he had a choice!) AHAHAHA.....I showed him the video on cirp and after that he said "how could my parents do that to me?" I dunno honey. I showed him the sites that told the purposes of the foreskin and etc and he became anti-circ from then on. He's not as "passionate" against it as I am but give me some more time to work on him. LOL :LOL

Desiree

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Old 11-24-2003, 10:19 AM
 
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we have the book "natural family living" that peggy o'mara/mothering put out and there is a chapter on circumcision.
i read it, and when i finished i read bits out loud to my husband. it didn't take much before he was like, "stop, stop, we'll never do that to any baby!"
and that was that.

and we gave the fleiss book as a baby gift to a couple who are due with a boy in about a week, so i'll let you know how that went over when i find out. the husband seemed receptive to the idea, especially after the other soldiers in the company started talking about leaving their sons intact, or wanting to.
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Old 11-24-2003, 11:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvalonDaughter

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Personally I would find this offensive someone leaving "messages" taped to a wall.

How can you discuss this issue in a more respectful way?
Any DH's out there who chose not to circ who are circ'ed and how did you reach this decision?
I agree with you.

My dh is circ'd, our boys are intact. When pregnant with my first, I talked to some people, did some research and decided there was NO WAY anyone was going to do that to my child if he was a boy.

I simply asked dh one day how he felt about circ. His thought it was done because it "had" to be done. I told him what I'd learned, and that I did not want it done and he came to the same conclusion.

I know the conversation doesn't go as smoothly for some, but I think there's a problem if one needs to resort to propaganda on the bathroom wall as a form of communication. (Or getting second-hand feedback on dh's postion by overhearing him talking to friends on the phone.) It's a crazy thought, I know, but I think partners ought to be able to discuss this stuff face to face.

Single Mom to 3 (12, 17 & 21)  luxlove.gif and dog2.gif.

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Old 11-24-2003, 11:56 AM
 
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I wouldn't approach guy on the topic when he had his pants down... that's for sure. But I do think there is a lot to be said for giving a guy privacy and space to do the research himself. If you come on with a bunch of heavy arguments when he is not emotionally ready to hear them... it's just going to feel like a personal attack. If you let him come to terms with it himself, he does not have to wrangle any worries about how YOU feel about his penis on top of all the other heaps of miserable emotions that have to come with looking at pictures of boys enduring something that was also done to him.

Love Sarah
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Old 11-24-2003, 12:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sarah
I wouldn't approach guy on the topic when he had his pants down... that's for sure. But I do think there is a lot to be said for giving a guy privacy and space to do the research himself. If you come on with a bunch of heavy arguments when he is not emotionally ready to hear them... it's just going to feel like a personal attack. If you let him come to terms with it himself, he does not have to wrangle any worries about how YOU feel about his penis on top of all the other heaps of miserable emotions that have to come with looking at pictures of boys enduring something that was also done to him.

ITA. I made the strategic mistake a couple of times of bringing stuff up while we were in bed - not during sex, but while I was surfing and reading anti-circ stuff on line at night while nursing ds. BIG BIG mistake. Stupid me, I didn't think about the pyschological implications of my choice of venue.

I also second the Mothering Natural Family Living book excerpt - it's short, and it's good.

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Old 11-24-2003, 02:23 PM
 
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With me it was never a topic of discussion. It simply was not going to be done. I'm not going to argue about it, I'm not going to consider it and I'm not going to discuss it. I don't want to hear about anybody elses experience and I don't want to see any research and I certainly don't want to talk to any doctors, psychologists or preachers. I would quickly tell any doctor that brought it up that if he circumcised a son of mine, he would also get a circumcision, just below the chin.



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Old 11-26-2003, 02:49 AM
 
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My DH knows that I rule as far as the kids are concerned, LOL, so he didn't arge with me. I was going to circ until I read articles on it while PG with DS. Then I told DH we would not circ (DH is circ'd). He said "what if DS asks why we look different?" and I said "then you'll tell him that your Mom cut off part of your penis for no good reason when you were born, but I wouldn't do it to my son." I said "Are ya gonna stand around and stare at each other's penises all day? What if he doesn't look like you anywhere else on his body? Eye color? Hair color? Our DD doesn't look like me. WHO CARES!!" And that was that and how "we reached that decision". Dad knows that Mom knows best. Had he put up a fight, he'd have still lost, so at least he made it easy for both of us. I believe a mother's job is to protect her babies, even if it means protecting them from their father. Lucky for us where we live the hospitals agree.
Now DH is anti-circ, but not as passionate as me, although I have heard him telling others that it is unnecessary and that's why we didn't do it. I just can't believe that mothers still do this to their sons, for such silly reasons as cleanliness (JOKE!), looks (beauty is in the eye of the beholder, LOL!), or "just because". HELLO! We're talking about permanently lopping off body parts here.
If you wanted a more gentle approach for a DH who needed persuasion, I would print out articles from websites and download the circ clip so DH could see it in action, discuss "pros" and cons, and then tell him why you're not going to it, and let him think it was his idea. But that's just my .02 cents.

Melanie
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Old 11-26-2003, 01:57 PM
 
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I am a circ'd DH who chose not to circ DS. For whatever reason I have always regreted my own circ - ever since I discovered what it was. DW was ambivalent about it with intact brothers and circ'd half brothers, so in our case it was me who said NO WAY.
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Old 11-28-2003, 03:41 AM
 
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High Five, Howard.

Our children need advocates who are against this type of following the mainstream.
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Old 11-30-2003, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joan
I agree with you.

It's a crazy thought, I know, but I think partners ought to be able to discuss this stuff face to face.
I would LOVE to discuss this camly with him. With our first child we were unable to discuss it and thankfully did not have to make the decision - lovely girl.

Now we need to discuss and he is "starting" to come around to the discussion. He acutally admitted he was not sure why it is even done.

My REAL problem is that he thinks that I am WAY out there on ALL this "Stuff" and should just go with with the flow on some things with child rearing!!!
It gets me SO mad!!


I do all the reserach and critical thinking and all he can do is criticize!

I am trying to be open minded about this issue. Thanks for the thoughts!
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Old 11-30-2003, 12:36 AM
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I am eternally grateful that this was never a fight with my dh. I just said, "we're not circ'ing him," and that was that!
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Old 11-30-2003, 02:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Julie you are lucky!
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