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The Case Against Circumcision > So Sad
Justice2's Avatar Justice2 06:49 PM 12-08-2003
I am a memeber of another board and a woman is preggo. Well, she asked "the" question...would you or wouldn't you circ. Well, I listed my personal experience with circing and it being the reason that I will not circ any future sons and then I began reading some of the other responses....Lord, I almost threw up at some of the reasons that these women would circ their sons...One woman said that her son was circed and that they strapped him to a table, numbed him and gave him a paci and that he didn't feel a thing :, that he would have no scars as an adult and that he wouldn't be picked on in the locker room. Another woman said that she would because she heard that it was best to have her son look like his daddy. I don't understand people. Yes, I know that I have a circ'd son. I did so out of ignorance. I did no research. To me and dh, it was just something that one did to their sons. Now, after the fact, I KNOW BETTER. I did my research, I lurked on this board and know that I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. I don't even care if it causes a divorce, I will not sign the papers to have it done to my next way, no how. Why won't other people, people who have the subject brought up and have the opportunity to gain knowledge do any research on the subject? IF ONE PERSON HAD SAID TO ME...YOU KNOW, THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE...YOU DON'T HAVE TO CIRC... my son would be intact...It's kind of like breastfeeding, noone bothered to mention it to me, so I didn't do any research on it. My mother said it was nasty and that was that....when I found this board, did my own research....I relactated at 9 weeks and now my son gets some of mama's milk. I just wish I c ould give my son his foreskin back. Some things you can't fix though.

I wanted to say thank you to you all for giving my thoughts (especially after my week of hell when my ds was healing) validation.

Frankly Speaking's Avatar Frankly Speaking 07:11 PM 12-08-2003
Having a brain and having intelligence don't necessarily go together. Some people really don't want to learn and will avoid it at all costs.

teniprice's Avatar teniprice 11:16 PM 12-08-2003
I totally hear ya.
I am also a member of another board where circ was brought up. Almost every single mama said they would circ or did circ. Their reasons were all "I wanted him to look his Dad" and "to prevent infection". Neither is a good reason.
Then something was brought up about having your... um...clitoris pierced...and the same women were like "WHY would I let someone stick something down THERE?" Like *their* parts were more important than their ds's. It totally blew my mind.
I have a circ'd dh and an intact ds. It has not been an issue for us.
Congrats to you for being able to continue bf'ing. I bf ds for one year until he self weaned. I wish I could have gone longer.

I do believe that most people do not research because they just do not want to know the facts. That way, THEY don't have to make the decision. It is made for them.
house elf's Avatar house elf 01:28 AM 12-09-2003
I know exactly what you mean. The women on my "Due In" board are great and I love them but so many always give the same reasons for circ...

"... he'll look like his daddy"
"... he won't be teased in the locker room"
"... his daddy has a penis and I don't, so I let him decide [insert laughter emoticon here]"

It's so tempting to say something, but I never do because I don't want to start anything. During an ear piercing thread someone commented something like, "I find it strange that many of you say you would not pierce your DD's ears because it was her choice, but you would circumcise your sons." I replied to that comment "Yes, and circumcision takes away so much more than holes in the ears," and I was positively attacked by a circ'ing mom. I apologized to her but I got a lot of private messages in my support. It was pretty crazy. I don't speak up about circ there anymore unless someone specifically says they are on the fence about it.
TigerTail's Avatar TigerTail 03:22 AM 12-09-2003
yes, but silence is interpreted as condoning. i am no longer silent. it is *not* ok, it is *not* someone's personal choice (unless they are intact adult males with good medical info to combat cut-happy urologists.) if people get offended by plain presentation of the facts with no soft-peddling, that's their problem and they need to educate themselves. more people should get vocal and the people who support this because 'everyone does it' may have to rethink their positions.

Frankly Speaking's Avatar Frankly Speaking 01:13 PM 12-09-2003
Infant male circumcision has survived and thrived on secrecy and silence. By continuing the secrecy and silence, we will insure it will survive.

Discussion and openess combined with the power of peer influence will be the magic bullet that ends it. This was shown in a study at a military hospital in Hawaii. Expectant parents were given detailed information about circumcision and the circumcsiion rate dropped drastically. The rate continued at the lower rate for another two years after the end of the study because of peer influence.

We have an opportunity to speak to the world through the internet and sites like this. Seize the opportunity! A man's sexual future depends on it. This is no time to be a shrinking violet.

Justice2's Avatar Justice2 01:51 PM 12-09-2003
Frank...well said. Like myself, if people don't know their options, they go with what they perceive (sp) as the norm. It takes a strong person to stand up and say..."wait just a damn wana do what with your son's foreskin"...which is exactly what I will say in the future.

Suse...I completely agree with you. I really don't give a flip if I offend someone or not. Somebody has to stand up for a newborn males rights. I do not go in trying to offend someone, but I usually do anyway. *sigh*
MelissaEvans's Avatar MelissaEvans 10:05 PM 12-09-2003
I do not go in trying to offend someone, but I usually do anyway.
My guess is this is because they are actually deffensive and in their hearts they know it can't be right. How can a mother honestly deffend the idea of abandoning her child to have him strapped down to have part of his penis removed? It can't be done logically, so they attack you instead. How dare you question them, how dare you not follow suite and tell them it's ok, how dare you tell them their husbands are missing something. Just my guess.
acystay's Avatar acystay 11:54 PM 12-09-2003
On my expecting board I brought up circing as well. Many moms will do it, and I too was shocked at some of the reponses. A few were on the infection factor and that a circ'ed penis is easier for a boy to care for. I realyed my stance that it's my job to teach him proper cleaning just as I do w/ my dd. I then was told that at 9 yrs old he's not going to welcome me into the bathroom to check that he's cleaned himself. So that was why I should circ. him. UGH!!! My dd won't welcome me either to examine her throughly to for proper cleaning!!!! What is it w/ people. I just said as a parent it's my job to teach her proper body care now (teeth brushing, nutirtion, cleaning, etc) and rely on my proper parenting skills now to carry on through. Another mom said that she wanted to avoid her son being embrassed on his wedding night when his wife would see him for the first time (she's religious). Dh just laughed at that one and said he hoped it wasing the wedding night! Isn't also our job as parents to have our children be proud of their bodies? And, if she's wanting him to carry his religious life in adulthood I would think she wouldn't want him w/ a woman who had seen a naked man before so how would his wife know the difference? OH, this just gets me going! I don't understand why it has to continue and why so many moms/dads feel that it should. Our western way of life is clean and sanitary. Just kills me that so many babies must be tortued so early in life.
Linda in OZ's Avatar Linda in OZ 05:48 AM 12-10-2003
I mentioned to dh, the "i want him to look like his father speil" his response was "WHAT??? Ya f***en kiddin' aren't ya, what kind of S**t is that?" Dh is circed and didn't really have an opinion/choice when the boys were born. I simply said that no son of mine was going to be cut and that was that. I often wonder how those parents respond if or when their son asks why they have curly hair and daddy doesn't. I approached some mothers from ds' class and out of 10 DS#1's mates, only 1 has been circed, so that blows the "locker room" excuse out the window.
On the very rare occasion they have redness, I make up a mix of lavendar oil in water and they dunk in that. Apart from that we have never really stressed about it.

Some parents do get very defensive, a very dear friend of mine said she was circing her son, I opened my mouth to comment and she started on me before I got a word out, none of my business, religious reasons, dh is in the army and what if ds wants to enlist etc etc.

teniprice's Avatar teniprice 01:25 PM 12-10-2003
Since when is it required to be circ'd to join the military?

My dh was in the military and he tried to use that excuse when we were "discussing" circ. He said he wanted ds to be circ'd because he saw one of his soldiers get an infection in the field (who was intact). I said that is crap. What if ds decides never to join the military? I'm not going to circ him "just in case".
Super Pickle's Avatar Super Pickle 02:08 PM 12-10-2003
A friend of mine, an older woman in her 60's, told me that when her uncut brother went into the army years ago, he got (as she put it) "a clip and a snip," meaning a buzz cut and a circumcision.

Wouldn't surprise me if it were more of a psychological tactic than anything.
MamaChel's Avatar MamaChel 03:23 PM 12-10-2003
My dh was in the military and he's intact. In fact he was absolutely tterrified that I'd want to do "that horrible thing" to his son that he told me no way from the beginning. I didnb't start researching until after my son was born- I really had no opinion either way so I am very grateful that my dh stood up for my son's right to an intact penis. (My family on the other hand thinks we're insane, "It's easier to get it done when they're babies, he's just going to HAVE to do it when he's older, why torture him? ) Ugh, I'm surprized I lived to adulthood surrounded by such idiocy.