Talked with my friend... - Mothering Forums

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Old 12-18-2003, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just thought I'd post - today I talked with my friend who is expecting her third boy soon (first two are circumcised). She was very open to my sending her Fleiss' book (What your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision), so that has been ordered from Amazon and sent.

She also said that she was planning to talk with her sister in law (whose husband is intact) before they make any decisions.

She's obviously talked a bit with her husband about it since our last conversation, as she said that her dh wasn't happy when she said (essentially) that their first two boys had been circed because that's what he wanted - he told her that he didn't want that kind of responsibility.

Of course, she was also honest with me that she'd read everything I sent, but they may circ anyway. I think she'll read, and please pray/send good vibes/etc that they change their mind - I really think that neither of them are very happy with the decision to circ, but yet they might repeat it?! :

I really don't understand, but there is some hope, as she's promised to read and at least consider their decision.

Still - so hard to understand...
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:59 PM
 
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I think the book will really help. I just found out that one of my friends who just had her second son did not circ the baby even though they did circ their older son, and it was because of dr. fleiss's articles in mothering. their bradley teacher handed the articles out, and it changed their stance.

so it can happen! you've done great!
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Old 12-19-2003, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, Elphaba - I was a bit nervous mentioning it to her (since they'd already circed their older two boys), but I'm glad I did. I hope the book changes their mind, but we shall see.

At least I feel that I did what I could...
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Old 12-19-2003, 10:54 AM
 
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"She's obviously talked a bit with her husband about it since our last conversation, as she said that her dh wasn't happy when she said (essentially) that their first two boys had been circed because that's what he wanted - he told her that he didn't want that kind of responsibility."

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean here...

he wants to cut the baby, but not be responsible for making the decision to cut the baby? or the esponsibility of caring for an intact boy? or the responsibility of what happened in the past?

He does not want his older sons to ever think that they were circumcised because of HIM?

Why- aren't they going to be HAPPY and give him CREDIT? Wouldn't a normal reaction want to be PPROUD to own up to doing something wonderful?

If he does not feel happy about taking the sole responsibility for a genital cutting... maybe that should give him sone insight to the fact that he really does not think that what HE IS CHOOSING is a good thing to do to the body of another man.

Love Sarah
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Old 12-19-2003, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, she meant what you thought she meant - her dh didn't want to accept responsibility for it being his wishes that resulted in their older sons being circumcised. I think he's more comfortable with the idea that it was a joint decision (share the blame, I guess).

I know - I agree with you. DH and I were talking last night about how terribly, terribly sad (and so very hard to understand) it is that neither my friend nor her husband seem very comfortable with circumcision, yet both of their boys are circumcised. I guess it just shows you how entrenched it is in American society.


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Old 12-19-2003, 07:41 PM
 
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As someone who made the mistake of circ'ing my first two boys, but finally didn't to my third I thought I'd chime in.

What started to change my mind was I read somewhere on these boards a person question, "If you had a girl would you ever consider cutting off any part of her body? Would you even pierce her ears without her consent?" Which for me was no to both. "Why then would you feel okay with cutting off such an important part of your boys body without his consent?"

This really started me thinking.

Also someone else mentioned to me why I would feel that my boy would be born with foreskin if it wasn't necessary.

Another good point to think about.

Lastly, I think these boards are invaluable and I would mention them to your friend. Because I think a lot of why I agree to circ the first two was out of fear that I had no idea how to care for an intact boy. I think the message out there is foreskin is dirty and gross and hard to care for. I honestly hadn't even ever seen an intact man before. (sorry if that's TMI )

I'm glad to know now that if I ever have any questions at all about what's normal, how to care for it, etc I can come here and ask and be given an intelligent answer.

I hope your friend decides to leave her ds intact!
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Old 12-20-2003, 11:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by dotcommama
"Why then would you feel okay with cutting off such an important part of your boys body without his consent?"

This really started me thinking.

Also someone else mentioned to me why I would feel that my boy would be born with foreskin if it wasn't necessary.

Through myth and misinformation, Americans came to see the foreskin as a birth defect that had to be resolved at birth. Males do not need a repair at birth. Mother Nature/God is far wiser than we can ever hope to be.




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Old 01-11-2004, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to update you on my friend - she had her baby January 5th - an 11 lb 12.5 oz little boy (born naturally)! And he's named the same thing my son is named...

He's also like my son, in that they left him intact!

She said she didn't like the Fleiss book I sent, as she felt it was very slanted, but after talking to me, she also talked to her European sil, who thought circ was awful. Talked to another sil, whose husband witnessed a RIC on a hospital chaplaincy rotation, and came home telling his wife that they were NEVER doing that to any of their children.

And her own sister is married to a man who is intact, and they will not circ.

So - she and her husband decided that just to make ds3 'the same' as dad and his two brothers was not a good enough reason to circ.

It sounds like it's been a difficult decision, as at least one close family member was quite upset by their decision. My friend said that she isn't as adamantly against circ as I am, but yet she and her dh stood their ground, and their son is intact. I'm so happy for their baby, and I really am impressed with them for being able to make this decision for their third son, especially since they've run into some opposition.

I checked, and her pediatrician is German and was glad they didn't circumcise - so her ds3 sounds like he is in good hands between his parents and his doctor.
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Old 01-11-2004, 10:13 PM
 
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Carolyn- What excellent news! That's great that you spoke up and added your voice with all those other people in defense of that baby boy! Congratulations to their family on his birth!

I'll be honest and tell you that I agree with your friend and don't like the Fleiss book all that much either in terms of approaching someone with a "sales pitch" but for some people it works for them, they like it- I guess differet people like to get it in different ways, I like to figure it out for myslf, some people like it spelled out clearly- the book that I think makes the best points (that I have seen so far) without seeming over the top is by David Gollaher... this one... just in case you would like to share it as well with your friend to reinforce to her that this was a good sound decision... and also if you ever have the need to pass a book onto another friend. Check the used book sales to get a bargain... the book most likely will be new with a discount mark on it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Don't get me wrong- I'm not knocking Fleiss.. it's just that some of the arguments he presents are very over the top scare tactic like issues (like the gory details of complications) that he does not have "locked tight" debate board style because it's a book where he does not have to worry about a pro-circ smartiepants can point out the open gaping hole he left which he could have closed with finesse. The plain old facts about the history of uncomplicated "normal" circumcisions (Gollaher Style) should slow down a person's eagerness to take part in it.

Love Sarah
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