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#1 of 14 Old 12-19-2003, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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who chose to circ even after being "fully" informed and researching circ?
Why did they/you make that choice (barring religion)?

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#2 of 14 Old 12-19-2003, 09:14 AM
 
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yes. one of my best friends circed her son.
when i asked about it, i did not know if she had or not, and i asked her if she did any research on it and what she had decided because i was really upset with another friend for saying that "circ was never a question."

she told me that she did a lot of research and it didn't seem to her that either side had a compelling case, that her dh was worried about explaining why his penis was different, that there was a lowered risk of cancer and since she has a jewish heritage, so they cut him.

now, you and i know that all those reasons are bogus, except maybe the jewish one, but since they are not active in any religion and it was an in-hospital circ, it doesn't hold water for me. not to mention the fact that in our decade of friendship her jewish heritage never came up.

anyway, i think it was really her dh's idea and she found reasons to validate him.

another couple is due any day now with a boy and i gave them the fleiss book so we shall see what they decide. if they actually read the book, or even part of it, i don't see how they can decide in favor of it.

anyone else i know of that did research left their son intact.
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#3 of 14 Old 12-19-2003, 05:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elphaba
that her dh was worried about explaining why his penis was different,
In other words, her husband was a coward! Rather than face the uncertainty, he had his son's penis cut to avoid any appearance that Dad is not all knowing and wise. Right?




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#4 of 14 Old 12-19-2003, 09:22 PM
 
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Well, my friend, who I was talking about on another thread (she has two circed boys, is pregnant with boy #3, and I've tried to talk her out of circing him) - she said that her doctor's practice went over both sides of the circumcision argument - pros and cons, and didn't push either side.

So I think she feels that she researched before making a decision.

But I don't think the pros and cons she heard ever included anything about the proper function of a man's foreskin, as everything I've told her about that seemed to be news to her.

So - did she research or not? I think she did, but she didnt' find all the facts before making their decision (her fault? or her doctor's fault?).

It's an interesting question, though. I can't quite imagine anyone reading all of the information in Fleiss' book and still choosing to circumcise. :
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#5 of 14 Old 12-19-2003, 09:52 PM
 
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Well, this isn't exactly the topic, but it's related. When I was pregnant with my ds we weren't sure of the sex, but I decided we should talk about it just in case. I was against circ and my husband was for it. And when I say he was for it I mean he was emotionally attached to it. He was almost impossible to talk to about it because it brought up such intense emotions. I told him all about why not to search and approached it from every angle. His response was that boys are really mean and locker room jokes about someones manhood could scar him for life and he didn't want to be responsible for that. I mean, he had his mind made up and there was no compromising. So what I said was that since we were interested in peaceful birth (we had a home birth) lets was 60 days after he is born and then talk about it again. Just to give him a peaceful start to life. My dh agreed to that. However 6 days after he was born my husband was so in love with ds that he said he could never send him off towards that kind of pain and that he trusted my decision not to circ and that if he wants it when he's older we'll pay for it.

So, I guess how this relates is that my husband had ALL of the information and he didn't care. He knew that his thinking was irrational, but that was his stance anyways.
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#6 of 14 Old 12-19-2003, 10:12 PM
 
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I have a friend who was a member of Nocirc and went ahead and circ'd because of pressure from her husband.

The only explanation I can come up with is that she was pregnant and emotionally vulnerable to pressure. I know she regrets it. The poor kid suffered adhesions.

I *wish* somebody gave me anti-circ info... because if I had that, then I'd have the ammo to counter my ignorant DH.

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#7 of 14 Old 12-19-2003, 10:53 PM
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double-post
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#8 of 14 Old 12-19-2003, 10:53 PM
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Well, I was going to say Yes, because there have been people, to whom I've given info, who have still decided to circ. (Because they are afraid of going against what they perceive to be the norm.) But, then I decided that these people weren't fully informed; they were fully misinformed. No one who truly let the information sink in could ever do that to their babe.

But, if you're trying to convince someone, Dr. Fleiss is your best shot, I think. (Either his article or his book.) I ESPECIALLY like ordering the article from Mothering, rather than just downloading it from the MDC link, because, when you order it, it comes with a beautiful picture of a babe asking, "Where's my foreskin?" I think that says as much, if not more, as the entire article itself.
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#9 of 14 Old 12-20-2003, 02:36 AM
 
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Yes. We have a friend who had a son last summer...while they were pregnant, my dh was doing a research paper on religious circumcision and he discussed it with the father, who was very vocal about thinking it was mutilation, against human rights, no medical reason, etc.
I babysat the son when he was about a month old and was very, very shocked to see his sad little circumsized penis
I have no idea what changed. I was too sad about the whole thing to ask.
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#10 of 14 Old 12-20-2003, 10:32 AM
 
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Carolyn:

I suspect what happened is that the doctor(s) presented some pro and some con but their own opinion was the controlling factor in all of the talks she got. Esentially, what she did was conduct an opinion survey that agreed with her opinion and that was good enough for her. That certainly is not research.


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#11 of 14 Old 12-22-2003, 09:19 PM
 
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Yes. Not only did I give them many many reasons why it shouldn't be done, so did their doula. And the two peds who were recommended refuse to do the operation. They went out of their way to have it done and not be there when it happened. I know most people may not know they can be there with their son during the procedure, but in their birth plan they made it clear they didn't want to be there for it. I've pretty well cut ties with them, they aren't the type of parents I want to be around. It breaks my heart. They were over at my house last month or so and changed their son's diaper in my living room (in general, I don't find that offending, I change DS's there all the time), but I had to make an excuse to leave the room so I didn't throw up and/or cry. Their "reasons" were "so he'd look like dad" (but dad didn't look like grandpa) and grandpa had a hard time with his foreskin when he was old and needed care and a coworker's son had to have it done when he was 13 or so.

Another friend said she did the research, but it consisted of her doctor telling her "it didn't matter either way." I'm confused because I'm sure as h*ll that it mattered to their son when it happened, and after when it threw off nursing and made diaper changes harder and it'll matter again when he realizes most of the boys in the area have something he's missing and it'll matter again when he becomes sexually active. Even if she didn't know that, she did know it hurt and knew that it didn't have any medical, religious, or social rationalizations. I was pretty upset. That would be abuse as far as I can tell. I don't seek her out any more either. =(
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#12 of 14 Old 12-25-2003, 04:10 AM
 
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I'm posting very delicately/tentatively here. Please be respectful if you feel the need to reply.
We circed ds#1 after being FULLY informed, well read, watched videos, knew all three different techniques... I somehow caved to dh about a week after ds was born, after fighting like the powerful person I am for the months preceding his birth. I still don't know how I let it happen. Postpartum emotions? I just wanted dh and I to stop arguing... Regrets regrets... It takes less than 24 hours to schedule it and have it done.
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#13 of 14 Old 12-25-2003, 04:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ja mama
I still don't know how I let it happen. Postpartum emotions? I just wanted dh and I to stop arguing... Regrets regrets... It takes less than 24 hours to schedule it and have it done.
That really sucks. I know regret. If I am blessed with another boy, he will remain intact. DH accepts that now. Consenting to my son's circ is the biggest regret of my life. I'm sure others would think "what's the big freakin' deal?" Well, they weren't there. They didn't see what I saw.

Anyway, pregnancy and the PPD is a very vulnerable time for mothers (and their babies). So I do understand and I don't think you should be beaten up over it either.

What I'd like to know (in a general sense) is what could have helped you stay strong? A supportive family member? A pro-intact Mother or MIL? of Father or FIL? A friend?

How can we support mothers who want to protect their sons through this (who are fighting their DHs)?

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#14 of 14 Old 12-25-2003, 05:52 PM
 
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My SIL is having a boy in a few weeks and they are going to circ . Their "research" includes Wiswell and Schoen. I had rebuttles for every point they made but it didn't work. This is what I don't understand: I had a friend whose baby was born with an extra set of thumbs. I told my bro and SIL how they are going to have them removed while the baby is an infant. My brother and SIL think that is horrible! They think they should let the baby decide! and if their son is born with extra fingers they would wait and see what he wants to do when he is older. How does it make sense to remove the foreskin which is natural and supposed to be there and to let the child decide on a birth defect???
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