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#31 of 51 Old 04-09-2009, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
What helped my dh to realize just how wrong circ is is it's sick history. He was shocked beyond believe when he learned that circumcision started in North America in the Puritan 1870s as a cure for masturbation. Masturbation was considered to be evil and sinful and was blamed for all sort of illnesses including blindness, paralysis and mental retardation http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm .

As late as the 1970's medical books were claiming that desensitizing the boy was good medicine as well as good morality. The idea of that, touted openly by medical scholarship with notable pride, was carefully tucked away when the sexual revolution permitted sexual pleasure.
Don't forget alcoholism and adultery!!

Exactly. This was my original reason for deciding never to circ any boys I have. And that was in high school! Luckily DP doesn't care too much about it. He said he wants his boys to look like him and that he has no idea how to care for an intact penis (neither do I ... yet) but that he understands why I refuse to do it and agrees with me.

Another thing I like to say is "If you are going to circumcise your boys then you might as well circumcise your girls, too. Don't want to appear sexist, do you?"

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#32 of 51 Old 04-09-2009, 03:54 PM
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How come nobody cared about baby looking different from daddy when they first started chopping up baby genitals in the US?

There was a first generation of mutilated babies with intact dads...

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#33 of 51 Old 04-09-2009, 04:09 PM
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My dp is circed and our son is not. I don't feel it will be an issue. Before I was better informed, it was my dp who didn't want to circ our son because he saw no sense in it. Once I learned more about it, and found this forum, I quickly jumped to his side and am soooo thankful I did.

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#34 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 12:11 PM
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Another poster here that has a circ husband and intact son:

I've never been with an intact guy before but from what I've seen in pictures (of adult intact men) in comparason to my son I'd say there is just as huge a differance even if father and son are both intact

My husband never knew that his dad was intact either!
It came up with my MIL after our son was born and she learned that we were leaving him intact...
She said "that's just what they did" back when my dh was born and mentioned that his dad was intact...
When I told dh that his dad was uncut it completely floored him LOL!
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#35 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 12:41 PM
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As a woman who grew up in an enviroment where it is really unusual for men to be circumcised unless it's for medical reasons, I can say with certainty that when intact boys grow into intact men... well... lets just say everything works just as well unaltered!
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#36 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 01:12 PM
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I think it's such a silly argument. There are so many differences and kids are open to that and one thing they won't notice and feel bad about is foreskin or not. Older kids who can retract their foreskin might wonder why their father doesn't have one if they see his glans out but usually it can be simply explained. Tell a kid it used to be thought a good thing to cut that skin off to babies and I guarantee no boy will say "oh no! why didn't you put me through that!" they will all say "yikes! glad that didn't happen to me"

Anyway my boyfriend is intact and doesn't know if his father is circumcised or not (they used to bathe together occasionally apparently, yet clearly he didn't notice, realise or remember). He thinks his father is circumcised (and it makes sense as it was routine in his father's generation) but clearly never had a problem with the difference. He's also very pro-intact.
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#37 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 07:33 PM
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I was circ'd as an infant. I have two sons, both with their original foreskins. While I cannot say why I felt strongly that they should not be circumcised, as I knew nothing about the value of a foreskin, I was. And that was the argument used by our doctor at my first son's birth. And he gave me the impression he was sincere.

But it is a totally bogus argument. I wear glasses, my new born son did not. I have a full beard, not to mention pubic hair, my son did not. I am 6 feet tall, my son was not even 2 feet tall. And I could go on and on...

And there was no issue at all. Geesh, it's like he looks up at his towering father with a full beard, hairy arms and legs, and wonders why his penis is covered? Not even on his radar screen.

And when the question came up, it was as simply as anything else. "How come your face is hairy?" "Well, because I am older and when men get older they get hair on their face." And he is off to the next subject.

It is such a non issue it really is not worth the time it took to type this.

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#38 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 08:32 PM
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Yes, my dh is circed and our two sons are not. Actually almost everyone I know who has left their sons whole the dad was circed.
Like someone mentioned already my sons' penises do not match even though they are both intact.

If you really think about this concept it just doesn't make sense. I have never met anyone who compares their genitals to that of their same sex parent.

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#39 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kidspiration View Post
Back when we were pregnant, DH and I had this conversation and the "looking like Daddy" issue came up. The look on his face after I asked him if he remembers comparing penises with his dad was priceless. He was like "eew, no!", and I was like "yeah, exactly!"

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#40 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 09:51 PM
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I've always thought "son and father matching" argument is just the strangest thing ever. Look at females: a little girl vulva looks nothing like an adult woman's vulva: not in size, shape, or color, not to mention hair. And yet we don't wonder about trauma for our little girls not matching their mamas. The same should be for men and boys. There is enough difference in size and shape of child vs grown penises that the foreskin is just the tip of the ice burg. Papa having a foreskin and a little boy not having one isn't any big deal at all.
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#41 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 09:58 PM
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My DH has no idea if his dad is circ'd or not. Plus seriously a little boy's genitalia looks absolutely nothing like an adult's. Your son will not look like his dad. He may have a different hair or eye color, be a different height. Have a smaller/larger penis. He may be born with one testicle. Your Dh may have his nipples pierced or have had cosmetic surgery to alter his nose/eyes. None of these things would be expected to be altered on your child to make him look like Daddy, nor should they. Your son will be perfect the way he is and putting him through a painful and unnecessary procedure to avoid a rare potential conversation about why you didn't do it is pretty silly.
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#42 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 10:08 PM
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My dh was circ'd at birth and we have an intact 19 month old wonderful ds.

After learning about the horrors of circ, neither one of us wanted that for our son. Also, since learning about restoring the foreskin, my dh has slowly been working on that (do a google search for foreskin restoration if you are interested).

So maybe my ds will end up looking like daddy anyway lol.

me, dh and 2 boys = our family (oh and a cat...who is also a male...lol)
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#43 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 10:22 PM
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My oldest son is 10 and intact. He has never seen or commented on my husband's circumcision. If he was to notice any differences I'm sure it would be with the more obvious size or hair issues.
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#44 of 51 Old 04-10-2009, 10:54 PM
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I agree wit what everyone else before has said, hands down. But also...

IMHO, that argument is really weird. Lol.
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#45 of 51 Old 04-11-2009, 03:19 AM
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My husband is American (and from the mid-west...AND so..yeah...circ'ed) I am English, where it is very rare. When my husband bought up the topic at my birthing class everyone sat open-mouthed and said 'OMG...why on earth would you do that?'

anyway, I have actually educated my husband, I gave him websites to read and my English midwife spoke to him. Now he has gone from being pro-circ to VERY VERY anti circ. He feels violated now that his mother made that choice for him, especially when he learned how many nerve endings he lost

He spreads the word now anyway, so yeah, after my educating him the issue of 'looking like Daddy' just became completely unimportant. They look different in many other ways anyway...and, I have yet to compare my vagina to my mothers

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#46 of 51 Old 04-11-2009, 12:06 PM
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As Fyrestorm pointed out, there were a whole lot of intact fathers with circumcised sons in past generations. I have never seen one mention of the trauma that custom caused those little boys. This is a question I would love to put to anyone promoting the "look like Dad " argument. As in , "So what happened with all the cir'd boys with intact Dads?".
As an aside, I would much rather have explain why junior's penis is natural, than come up with a reason why we cut part of it off !!!!
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#47 of 51 Old 04-11-2009, 12:08 PM
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My dh is circ'd and my three boys are not. They do, however, know what circ. is, because they heard me discussing it with a friend. So I told them what it was and why dh and I chose not to do it. They never even asked if dh had been circ'd and I sincerely think they never will. So, yeah, that line of thinking is really weird.

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#48 of 51 Old 04-11-2009, 12:19 PM
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My older two children (dd and ds1, ds2 is a toddler) know what circumcision is. They are both appalled anyone would choose to do that to a baby. And that's with out knowing all the gory details even.

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#49 of 51 Old 04-11-2009, 03:06 PM
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I don't understand the "looking like Daddy" argument. We are talking about a cosmetic surgery. If Dad had a nose job or chin implants, would he automatically order those surgeries on his newborn son? If Mom had breast implants, would she demand the same for her daughter? Do parents typically dye their children's hair or give children colored contact lenses so that they look like their parents? If the answer to these questions is no, then the answer to circ is no.

"Isn't life a series of images that change as they repeat themselves?" - Andy Warhol
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#50 of 51 Old 04-11-2009, 04:29 PM
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Some of you have touched on this, but I want to go a little further into it. Why is it that when an Intact father wants to circ his son no doctor will say "DS needs to look like you." Yet, they do when circ father wants to leave ds intact. In fact, I had this experience. With ds1, his father is intact. When we said we' were leaving him intact, someone at the hospital said don't you want him to look like daddy? I said, sure so don't circ WHoever it was shut up.

Really the only slightly positive thing I can say about that hospital is that I wasn't really questioned alot about circ. But like I said that is is. I had 2 births there, adn the emotional trauma form the first........I digresss.

This "look like daddy" argument is so idiotic. I don't know if my father is or isn't (i assume he is, though) (i'm a girl...lol) I know that all my brothers are : BUT my sons are NOT. My nephews are. All my bf's family's kids are. What I want to know is WHY is this still allowed in our country? All I can guess is that America is scared to question authority. Plus a lot of men would have to acknowledge that their parents and doctors (mostly docs) made a mistake and they paid the ultimate price for it.

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#51 of 51 Old 04-11-2009, 05:52 PM
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Hair, size difference. More noticeable than foreskin.

Also, you could always use the rationale, I have breasts, my daughters do not at birth, we did not give them implants to look like me (another cosmetic surgery). I say that in all seriousness. I think that comment makes people think about what cosmetic really means. HTH!

Glad you found us here and I hope you honor your future sons right to healthy, intact, genetalia. Everyone deserves that right. :
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