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#1 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Pretty much since the day DH and I found out we were expecting a boy we've been butting heads about circumcision. I'm adamantly against it, while he is all for it. Now that I"m nearly 36 weeks pregnant, it's getting down the wire and we still have yet to come to an agreement. The idea of circumcising my son breaks my heart and makes me feel completely sick to my stomach.

I've tried everything to persuade him to reconsider his stance. The worst part is that he is so uninterested in facts. As far as I have heard, his biggest argument for doing it is, "it's normal" and not doing it is "weird," and has no interest in the actual percentage of circumcised men being far less than uncircumcised men.

Worse yet, is that his mom is a nurse and is for circumcision. DH, being the giant mama's boy that he is, takes everything she says as gospel. So now, when I attempt to discuss this all with him, all I get is, "My mom is a nurse, I think she knows what she's talking about more than you."

I'm going insane. This is causing me so much unneeded stress and I just want him to LISTEN. Any ideas? :
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#2 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 08:37 PM
 
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You will get plenty of advice here but the main things seem to be: make him do the research to prove to you why it needs to be done and refuse to discuss it until he can make a convincing argument.

Also, don't give permission at the hospital. They can't do it without your say-so and they sure as heck don't want a lawsuit on their hands. Have "no circumcision" all over your file and mention it to everyone there.

Also, his mother really has no business with the state of your son's penis. Remind him of that.
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#3 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 09:13 PM
 
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I don't have any words of wisdom. I just want to say do whatever you have to do to protect your son. He has a right to his foreskin! Just b/c your dh thinks a foreskin is weird doesn't mean your son won't appreciate you fighting to keep him intact.

Janel ~ wife and mother of 4, L&D RN, midwifery student
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#4 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 09:18 PM
 
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You know what? If he is not willing to do some research and educate himself, then he doesnt get a say. You can't make such a HUGE life altering decision based on ignorance.
-he also cannot get the baby circ'd without your conset, so he is going to get over it.

Decluttering 500/2010
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#5 of 31 Old 04-23-2009, 10:07 PM
 
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Dont sign the concent do not let your ds out of your sight.

In most hospitals you have to sign the consent if the hospital allows for dh's to sign then you make a big stink about it. They will bring you the paper work and you put on every single pay DO NOT CIRC no matter if it is a consent or not. Tell anyone who comes into the room that he is not to be circed.

Once you leave the hospital it is possible for your dh to take your ds and have it done without you so I wouldnt allow him to take him anywhere for the first year. He would have to go under GA by that point so it couldnt be done easily.

Tell your MIL to butt out about your ds's penis and tell your dh that this is one thing you are not backing down on and it will be over your dead body that he is circed.

You have tried everything to change his mind so at this point mama bear needs to come out and just say NO.

Your dh is a grown man he will get over it but your ds will never get over the loss of his foreskin.

 
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#6 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 12:20 AM
 
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ditto to the above. and change your attitude -- circumcision is surgery and there has to be a compelling reason to do surgery on a newborn. take your wind out of his sails. it is not your job to convince him -- it's his job to convince you, with compelling medical evidence, that your son's healthy, normal penis needs surgery.

i really think you can reduce the stress on yourself by just taking a step back, and realizing that YOU have the power in this situation. not your dh. YOU. just become the rock, the immovable object, and know that YOU can and will protect your son. your dh's feelings may be hurt -- but he's a big boy and he can deal with it. better to have hurt feelings than a hurt penis.

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#7 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 05:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stori View Post
... all I get is, "My mom is a nurse, I think she knows what she's talking about more than you."
Hi there! While I'm not your DH's mom, I am a mom, a nurse (an OB RN who has been around plenty of circs) and my ds was left intact. The truth is, if your MIL has been out of nursing school for more than a couple of years, she probably doesn't know much about circumcision, the risks, the AAP stance on infant circ, or that many babies are now left intact (especially in your state of WA). Circumcision wasn't discussed in depth in nursing school years ago (still isn't in many schools) and doctors used to recommend circ and believed babies felt no pain. It is now known otherwise. So if your DH's only argument is that his mom is a nurse and knows more than you do about it, quiz him and her and dispel their myths and bring them up to date with current facts and trend.
In the end, do what the others have suggested - don't sign the consent form in the hospital and make it known to the Dr. & nursing staff that your child is not to be circed or retracted.
Good luck!

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#8 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 05:22 AM
 
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i really think you can reduce the stress on yourself by just taking a step back, and realizing that YOU have the power in this situation. not your dh. YOU. just become the rock, the immovable object, and know that YOU can and will protect your son.
:

Circ'd men of course have issues. Penis issues. They know something was cut away from them, and may deep down feel they are diminished. But since they can tell themselves that what is missing was gross anyway and that they are now better and cleaner and more desirable they can deny those doubts and fears. If a man feeling like that has to face facts that foreskin is good, circumcision is not "cleaner" or "healthier" and it is wrong to cut a baby, then their fears have to come out. As in, if foreskin is not gross then maybe there is something wrong with me? Am I missing out on something sexually? Would my parents really have let me go through something so painful when I was just a baby if it wasn't medically necessary?
Naturally these thoughts can be very disturbing and upsetting. So the response is to shove them back down and assert that OF COURSE circumcised is better, of course it must be done to my son.
BUT what your husband does not realize is that when he decides to face facts and deal with his own feelings and put his son first, and protect his son and let his son grow into a man with his whole body and his human rights and his choices intact, THEN the father goes through an incredible maturation. He has faced his insecurities and not let them win. He is a MAN, he is a FATHER. He doesn't have to be worried or insecure anymore; his penis is how it is, what happened to him happened, but he realizes it doesn't control him. It is so empowering for a man to say, "The cycle of violence ENDS here. I will not put my son through it." It is like he is taking back control, the control that was taken from him as a baby.
And when a man puts his son's rights first like this, over his own issues, he usually becomes a HERO in the eyes of his wife. I know I see my own husband as so much more MANLY than the scared little men who cut their sons to make themselves feel good. My husband is strong, confident, courageous. Manly. I feel bad for guys who cut their sons and miss out on all that!

So, even if your husband does not get on board, you can definitely protect your son and keep him whole. How your husband chooses to deal with an intact son is up to him. He can go around in a snit, asserting that you denying your son the medical aesthetic benefits that he himself was the beneficiary of (because he needs to believe that to feel good about himself.) Or, he can face the fact that his own circumcision was just an unfortunate thing that was done to him because he happened to be born in mid- to late-twentieth century America when it was "the thing to do," and deal with that - and in the end he'll feel better about himself and have better relationships with his wife and son.
Good luck to you, and to him!

Jen
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#9 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 08:20 AM
 
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So his mom is a nurse. You can up the anti and give him a consensus statement from Doctors:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...yStatement.pdf

That way it is all laid out for him and his mom to refute if they want, point by point, with references. If they won't do that, they are simply using emotion to support their argument, something that goes against our Society's laws and philosophy for an issue like this.

Be strong, your son will thank you later.

Regards
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#10 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 10:59 AM
 
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Tell him you will not do it. Seriously, DO NOT DO IT. I went along with what my husband wanted against my own feelings with my first two sons and I regret it. You do not have to cut your son if you do not want to.

This is an emotional issue for your husband. But it is not about his emotions, it is about your son's body.

I think you should tell your husband that you will not do it. Then you can listen to his feelings, he will be disappointed, but you can reassure him that your son will be happy and healthy and wonderful without having his genitals cut.

Your husband does not have to agree that circ is horrible, and that may be too difficult for him to have to face. The goal is for him to be OK with having a son who is intact .

My husband used to think circ is better, but now he says, circ is OK and intact is OK. (He is circed, I think he has to say circ is OK for his own psyche.) But -- he says intact is OK, and our third son is intact.

You do not sign the papers. Your husband will be OK. So will your son!!! You may hear griping, but they will get over it.

ETA: The only reason my third son is intact is because I decided that I was going to refuse it, and that it is OK for me to refuse circumcision. I can't tell you how important it is to me that I got it right and refused circumcision for my new son. It is one of the best things I have done in my life.

You can do it, too. Please feel free to contact me if you need support. I'm happy to give you lots of encouragement.
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#11 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 11:09 AM
 
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I am so sorry you're in this position. I was there. I wish I could fix it for you.. it is gut wrenching in an awful, awful way.

But... I would (and did) absolutely put my foot down. You are now mama first, wife second, in that you have to protect this child, even if it be from his own father.

Once you hold him in all his goopy purple screaming glory, omigosh.... that huge hormone wave you get? Ride it. Don't let ANYONE hurt him. He depends on you, you're his mother. And he... he will be precious and perfect from his head to his tiny toes. Don't let anyone try to convince you some part of his perfect little body needs altering.

Channel that mama grizzly. She's there for a reason.
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#12 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 02:56 PM
 
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You need to make that your sig

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#13 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 03:11 PM
 
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Yes I was in the same boat.


There was "NO convincing DH"

I told him " OVER MY DEAD BODY would my sons genitals be mutilated. " he " would have to RIP HIM FROM MY ARMS " to do such a thing.

discussion over.

Some things are non negotiable. That is one of them :A Knife on my sons Penis.
Bear your teeth and your claws, it'll be over.

ELY -Mommy to many

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#14 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 03:42 PM
 
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do you have a pediatrician picked out? if so what is hiss/her position on circ? i know our doctor doesnt reccommend it.

i might be inclined to have a heart to heart with MIL for a couple of reasons. first of all you need to establish boundaries with her. this is none of her business and nosy pushy MILs dont generally confine their opinions (often presented to their victims as irrefutable fact) to one subject matter and its better to establish boundaries now before her opinion is factored into every decision you make about your child.

the second reason i would talk to her is because she is playing the nursse card and giving advice that is not supported by most of the medical world. that is completely inappropriate. not to mention she is not your babies nurse and most nurses that wor with babies dont support circ. i might tell her that all medical decisions will be between you, your dh and doctor... she should relax and enjoy being granmom

btw your dh is being ridiculous... maybe ask him why he is trying to force you to do something you are very opposed to. i would also put a stop to him using his mother to gang up on you.
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#15 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 04:32 PM
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Dearest Stori -
Stay Strong Mama! Don’t Ever give in and sacrifice what you know is not right! Your Maternal Instincts to protect your perfectly created son from harmful genital cutting trumps your husband’s cultural eagerness to circumcise. As a male, I appreciate all you moms who don’t give in to their circumcised husbands demands to circumcise their sons. It can be extremely difficult I'm sure. Far too many moms give in for the sake of not wanting to argue and fight a long battle. They fool themselves into believing their circumcised husbands probably know better, Bull*$#* !

Here is a link to a wonderful essay written in 2003 by a woman who correctly asserts that moms must be empowered to protect their sons from circumcision when the culture they live in promotes and encourages it. Reading it will empower you more as will you reaching out to all these spectacular moms (others too) on MDC.
Best regards, Devin.
http://www.wnc-woman.com/0405circumcise.html
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#16 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 05:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jenP View Post
:

Circ'd men of course have issues. Penis issues. They know something was cut away from them, and may deep down feel they are diminished. But since they can tell themselves that what is missing was gross anyway and that they are now better and cleaner and more desirable they can deny those doubts and fears. If a man feeling like that has to face facts that foreskin is good, circumcision is not "cleaner" or "healthier" and it is wrong to cut a baby, then their fears have to come out. As in, if foreskin is not gross then maybe there is something wrong with me? Am I missing out on something sexually? Would my parents really have let me go through something so painful when I was just a baby if it wasn't medically necessary?
Naturally these thoughts can be very disturbing and upsetting. So the response is to shove them back down and assert that OF COURSE circumcised is better, of course it must be done to my son.
BUT what your husband does not realize is that when he decides to face facts and deal with his own feelings and put his son first, and protect his son and let his son grow into a man with his whole body and his human rights and his choices intact, THEN the father goes through an incredible maturation. He has faced his insecurities and not let them win. He is a MAN, he is a FATHER. He doesn't have to be worried or insecure anymore; his penis is how it is, what happened to him happened, but he realizes it doesn't control him. It is so empowering for a man to say, "The cycle of violence ENDS here. I will not put my son through it." It is like he is taking back control, the control that was taken from him as a baby.
And when a man puts his son's rights first like this, over his own issues, he usually becomes a HERO in the eyes of his wife. I know I see my own husband as so much more MANLY than the scared little men who cut their sons to make themselves feel good. My husband is strong, confident, courageous. Manly. I feel bad for guys who cut their sons and miss out on all that!

So, even if your husband does not get on board, you can definitely protect your son and keep him whole. How your husband chooses to deal with an intact son is up to him. He can go around in a snit, asserting that you denying your son the medical aesthetic benefits that he himself was the beneficiary of (because he needs to believe that to feel good about himself.) Or, he can face the fact that his own circumcision was just an unfortunate thing that was done to him because he happened to be born in mid- to late-twentieth century America when it was "the thing to do," and deal with that - and in the end he'll feel better about himself and have better relationships with his wife and son.
Good luck to you, and to him!

Jen
This is one of the most articulate things I've seen posted here in YEARS!

You have to realize any man circumcised as an infant is a victim. If he's not aware/willing/able to see that he was a victim, he can't easily change the path. I think it takes first acknowledging this on some level in order to break the cycle.

If you refuse to circ and your husband is forced to deal with an intact son, he'll realize it's not terrible and I suspect that he'll begin to think about his circumcision and the awareness will begin for him.

Imagine learning as an adult that you were sexually cut?

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#17 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 05:30 PM
 
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In the end, I just quit talking about it because it always led to a fight. I simply decided in my heart that it wasn't going to happen. And when the hospital staff presented me with the consent form, I said "No" and didn't sign. And my hubby got over it--rather quickly, actually, for someone who had been putting up such a big fight during the pregnancy! He didn't even get upset when he realized in the hospital that it wasn't happening.

My advice: Decide it's not happening, stop bringing it up, and hope that your husband feels relieved once he sees his precious son and his strong woman protecting him.
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#18 of 31 Old 04-24-2009, 06:05 PM
 
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jenP, That was great!

You don't have to prove anything to him, the burden of proof lies with him. Make him do his own research into why his son should be circumcised. Since he has up until this point refused to do any research why would you perform elective surgery on an infant with no research whatsoever. Once he does any sort of research on the topic he will discover that his son will be just fine with a foreskin.

As to grandma being a nurse, most nurses I have met are adamantly opposed to circumcision, not the other way around. Unusual.

Heather Mike Married 8/1/99 Mom to Charlotte Aug 04, Nov 06, and Katherine Oct 07
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#19 of 31 Old 01-07-2010, 11:44 PM
 
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Another good thread on working with a husband who wants to circ when the wife does not:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1173015
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#20 of 31 Old 01-08-2010, 12:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama2Jesse View Post
Once you hold him in all his goopy purple screaming glory, omigosh.... that huge hormone wave you get? Ride it. Don't let ANYONE hurt him. He depends on you, you're his mother. And he... he will be precious and perfect from his head to his tiny toes. Don't let anyone try to convince you some part of his perfect little body needs altering.

Channel that mama grizzly. She's there for a reason.
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#21 of 31 Old 01-08-2010, 12:17 AM
 
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See if he will read "Would you circumcise your daughter?" and "Pieces of Adam: How your circumcised son may feel in a few years"

They might help put things in a new perspective for him. Good luck!

http://womanuncensored.blogspot.com/...-daughter.html

http://womanuncensored.blogspot.com/...l-someday.html
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#22 of 31 Old 01-08-2010, 10:08 PM
 
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I see this is a pretty old thread. How did things turn out for you OP?

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#23 of 31 Old 01-09-2010, 08:52 PM
 
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I had a partner who was difficult to convince when having my first son. The NO CIRC newsletter had perspectives on the situation from MEN, which made him more open to looking at what they had to say about it. But nothing fully convinced him until they made everyone in our chilbirth class who was considering circumcision watch a video with sound on of one being done, and explained that it is not cut off, but CRUSHED OFF! I have never seen anything so horrifying as watching them strap that baby down, and crush his most sensitive parts. But the worst part was hearing the baby scream so loud and long that he finally choked himself, ran out of air, and couldn't even make any more sound (while still making the physical motions of screaming). It fully changed my partners view on it immediately, and my son is uncirced. Not a single eye in the room (male or female) was dry by the end of the video, and it was enough to make me feel nauseous.

Homeschooling, homebirthing, co-sleeping, breastfeeding, cloth diapering, APing, UC, super crunchy mom to Ezra(9), Adrian(5), and Lily(May 15) : Non-vaxed mom and babes
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#24 of 31 Old 01-10-2010, 12:47 AM
 
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I've probably said that before on some thread but your posts make me thankful that I'm European - one thing less to argue about. The homebirth "issue" with the extended family was bad enough.
to all those Momma Bears!

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#25 of 31 Old 06-07-2011, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know this post has been long dead, but I wanted to come back to thank all the mamas that gave me WONDERFUL advice. I put my foot down and absolutely refused to circ my son, and I have never regretted it. My husband got over it pretty quickly once he realized I wouldn't budge. In fact, just two days ago he told me he wished he hadn't been circ'ed and thanked me for not letting him do it to our son. So thanks, mamas!

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#26 of 31 Old 06-07-2011, 02:37 PM
 
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joy.gif that is such a great update and thank you so much for posting it orngbiggrin.gif

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#27 of 31 Old 06-07-2011, 04:38 PM
 
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Great news, Mama! Congratulations on your new baby!

 


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#28 of 31 Old 06-07-2011, 06:13 PM
 
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Hey we always love an update like that! Congratulation, what a lucky boy. :)

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#29 of 31 Old 06-07-2011, 06:52 PM
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yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#30 of 31 Old 06-07-2011, 07:03 PM
 
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Before I was able to convince my husband I first struck a deal with him.
That I would consent to a circumcision if it didn't take place until the foreskin had retracted on its own, since I could ever get past that part when trying to view a circumcision.
He agreed, and now actually 100% agrees with me.
He says that he just feels like he had to agree with circumcision being best, or that it meant there was something wrong with him...circumcision has such long term effects over their emotions as well

lol, oops didn't see that this was an update haha


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