"The locker room will be really tough on him" - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Three men have told me this. Thoughts?

I'm new at this, but I kind of think since it's becoming so much more common these days, when my LO is in the locker room in 2020 it won't really be a big deal anymore?

Anyone know the circ rate in the US today?

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#2 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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I heard that it is 52% circumcised as of 2006. I think I have the year correct.

This is such a false argument. So many men have posted about this here saying that a boy will catch a great deal of flack for commenting/teasing about another boy's penis...because that would mean that he was looking at another's penis and being accused of looking at another's penis would lead to accusations that you were interested in it...which is not something boys like to be accused of.

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#3 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 04:02 PM
 
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Circ rates vary across the country but they all are declining. The current circ rate is so much lower than it was when any man who is telling you the "locker room theory" was in school. Many insurance companies and state Medicaids don't even cover it anymore. Plus, some parents are declining circ as they find out it's unnecessary, risky, painful, the benefits of foreskin, etc. So chances are extremely high that your son will not be the only intact guy in the locker room. And if you are on the west coast, a circed boy would be in the minority.

Plus, kids all have differences. Why would their genitals be different? Even if your son was the only intact kid in school, circing him just to match his peers would be silly.

Plus, and I certainly don't condone making fun of gay people at all and I hope this wouldn't happen at school, but I've been told by men (and read online) that no boys are looking at each others genitals in the locker room (or if they do they do NOT comment on it) because they would fear being called gay.

I really don't think those advising you with the "locker room" argument have done nearly as much research on circ as you have. I think it's a bogus reason to circ (but I also think that about any other non-medical reason for circ).
Good luck to you!

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#4 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 04:05 PM
 
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Even when the cir rate was high, I think that was bogus. When I was a kid, circ rates were high. I know a few intact men and none were teased at all.

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#5 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vegasgrl View Post
Three men have told me this. Thoughts?

I'm new at this, but I kind of think since it's becoming so much more common these days, when my LO is in the locker room in 2020 it won't really be a big deal anymore?

Anyone know the circ rate in the US today?
How old were these men? As a younger guy (who just finished the "forced locker room" stage of life) I can say what these guys are imagining is no longer the traditional locker room. Things are more private now, boys in general have been taught their should be a greater level of privacy to their body then to their peers in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's.

Also there is the "gay fear" that has been subplanted in the minds of teenage boys lately, no one would dare about how they were looking at another guys penis, I dont care if your whole penis has been cut off, no boy is going to be taunted more then the one who is being called gay. Besides, kids bully kids to feel better about themselves, and there are a lot of "safer" features to make fun of, (like the shorter boy, or the skinnier one, or the one that just acts anti social)

If that was not enough, increasingly intact boys are being more and more common. Enough so that even in many high school locker rooms of today (and the recent past) the foreskin is nothing to make fun of, because too many guys have one.
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#6 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 05:51 PM
 
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It's pretty rare for people to go naked in front of each other in locker rooms nowadays anyway.

Where I live (AZ) only about 25% or boys are circed, so if anything it would be the circed guys facing that issue.

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#7 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 05:53 PM
 
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I always find this a strange arguement since here no one took a shower after gym. I would have been appaled had we done that.

Dh said that even though other guys will notice each other in passing they wouldnt be caught dead staring at another guys privates for fear of being caught.

I see it this way. I plan to teach my ds to be proud of his intact body and teach him that others are often jealous of what they dont have or upset by differences. It is their problem not ds's.

Teaching a child about his intact body will go a long way to giving him the confidence he needs to just shrug off something like this IF it happens.

I dont condone making fun of any one for any reason in this case a come back of well at least it is all there and not half chopped off like yours would be appropriate I think.

It might even get the other guy thinking about what was done to him and make him think twice about doing it to a child of his.

 
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#8 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 06:04 PM
 
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Just some of my thoughts, as an intact guy, though, I think most of what I'll say has mostly been covered.
  1. At least in our school we never were made to shower or were naked changing for gym. I hear it's this way in most places now and has been for a long time.
  2. It is probably different for some school sports though I didn't participate there were other activities that I was involved in outside school that required the use of 'gang' 'locker' type showers and I never had a problem with anyone personally.
  3. I currently use a gym about 4 or 5 times a week and I've never gotten a comment there.
  4. There are way more intact boys today plus tons of information and even if there aren't as many where you live, most will have knowledge of that and it won't be a surprise even there.
  5. If this whole locker room thing ever was a problem those days are long over, though I have my doubts it was ever an actual problem.
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#9 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
I see it this way. I plan to teach my ds to be proud of his intact body and teach him that others are often jealous of what they dont have or upset by differences.
I think its better to just focus on self confidence then to say the cut boys might be jealous. You don't want to make the kid too cocky.(pun totally intended)

But seriously I think one of the most important element of this movement is to make guys feel self confident in themselves, be that cut or intact. If a guy is proud to be intact or cut, thats great, as long as THEY are the ones that made that choice for themselves.
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#10 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 07:02 PM
 
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As I have said before. My husband grew up in central Tennessee during a time when the circ rate was MUCH higher. He was on swim team, wrestling team in HS and showered in front of all his peers. In college he was the naked guy at the parties. No one ever commented on his intact penis. He only knew one other intact boy and neither of them ever felt insecure or received any negative comments. It just isn't an issue. If someone does look your son should ask why they are staring at his penis.

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#11 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 07:50 PM
 
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Through twelve years of boarding school, with totaly open communal shower rooms, I do not recal one single instance of teasing based on circumcision status. Elementary school children are pretty innocent. I'm sure we all looked - but it made no difference - it was just accepted that some were different (the ratio was about 1/3 intact, 2/3 circ'd). The notion of homophobia did not appear on anyone's radar until part way through high school.

From my experience the locker room teasing thing is just a myth - or maybe just an unfounded tactic by pro-circs to enhance their agenda.
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#12 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 07:57 PM
 
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DP is 30 and intact and he's never had a "locker room" experience that I hear so much about from everyone. Both my son's are intact and many of their peers are as well, I certainly don't think it will be a problem.l Men don't just stand around naked checking out each other's junk.

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#13 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 09:41 PM
 
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My dh calls myth too -- born in 1967, in MA, where most were circed but some remained intact, had lots and lots and LOTS of locker room experience from middle school through college on swim teams and as a personal trainer -- and the rules are 1) IF you look make darned sure you don't get caught looking and 2) never, never, never say a word. In fact, the best policy is maintaining eye contact with anyone you're talking to!

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#14 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 09:52 PM
 
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I have b/g twins, so my daughter is only used to seeing little boys who are intact. In the showers at the Y the other day she say a circ'd boy & said (in her penetrating 3 y.o. voice), "Mummy, why does his penis look so funny? And why is it so little?" So it can go both ways in the locker room!
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#15 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 09:56 PM
 
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This is a ridiculous myth. I am an intact guy, and I have been in plenty of locker rooms. Back in HS, I had absolutely no clue who was cut, who was not because first off, few people ever got naked, and secondly, when they did, nobody wanted to get caught looking. To put this myth into context, you would not consent for your baby daughter to have a breast augmentation procedure performed because somebody might tease her 14, 15 years down the line. No, it's probably better to instill in her a sense of self esteem and a good body image. The same holds true for a boy.
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#16 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 10:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by the_lissa View Post
Even when the cir rate was high, I think that was bogus. When I was a kid, circ rates were high. I know a few intact men and none were teased at all.
OMG yes. I've posted a lot that my DH and BIL are both intact (and 26 and 24 years old) both played baseball, football, and ran track and cross country from 8th-12th grade. They probably spent more time in the locker room than anywhere else. Neither of them was ever teased about being intact. Ever.

And that whole "no one takes showers after gym" thing only works if your kids don't do sports. Heck, even for the years I wasn't in sports we still showered after particularly heavy workouts (I'm 24). My sister is in sports in high school NOW and everyone still showers after. No one wants to be the smelly kid. The truth is that it just.doesn't.matter.

I'm Kellie :, married to Chris , and mom to one baby girl (7/12/09).
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#17 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 10:17 PM
 
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I just wanted to add that locker rooms have changed. Yes, people still shower after sports, but not that often, and many simply do it at home. I remember that in my HS all the new showers were private stalls. I think today there is a much greater concern for privacy than before. In any case, it does not really matter. Medical decisions should not be based on hypothetical ridicule from a immature 14 year old a decade and half from now.
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#18 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 10:29 PM
 
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My youngest was still in high school when I started posting to this forum. After reading about intact boys who were supposedly teased in the locker room, I asked him if he'd ever been teased for being intact. His answer? "H*ll, no!"

He said that the person making the comment would be the one being teased because he'd looked at another male's equipment. That is a FAR bigger taboo than being intact! My sons grew up in a high-circ. area, too. It doesn't bother them a bit that they're not circumcised. In fact, the youngest has thanked me for leaving him as nature intended him.

So, I totally agree that this a bogus argument.
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#19 of 45 Old 04-24-2009, 10:34 PM
 
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Since only circumcised men seem to give warnings about being teased in locker rooms because of being intact, does that mean that being circumcised causes some men to want to ogle and comment on other men's penises?
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#20 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 01:59 AM
 
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Since only circumcised men seem to give warnings about being teased in locker rooms because of being intact, does that mean that being circumcised causes some men to want to ogle and comment on other men's penises?
GREAT hypothesis, Sapphire..! THAT response to anyone making such an assumption about intact persons being teased should surely put them on the defensive. And how come we never hear of any intact boys teasing a circumcised boy because of his status..?? Logically it should go both ways if the first supposition were true...
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#21 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 02:06 AM
 
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I've never been in a boy's locker room, but i asked both my brothers about this when I was trying to decide whether to have DS circumcised. They said guys don't talk about each other's penises in the locker room! It's virtually unheard of. They "sneak a peek" but leave it at that. They consider it to be off the table in terms of what can be discussed. They don't really want it to be known that they're checking out other guys' parts!

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#22 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 02:21 AM
 
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The circ/intact rate is close to 50/50 in the US. Nobody has taken off their underwear in a highschool locker in around 30 or 40 years.

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#23 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 03:23 AM
 
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Oh, gosh who takes off their underwear in the locker room? The middle school where I work won't pay for hot water so there are no showers happening.
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#24 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 10:52 AM
 
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This is truely the stupidest of the pro-circ myths.

Boys would rather be caught dead openly talking about checking out another guy's penis.

And as many pointed out, most schools don't have the kids shower after gym class anyway. When I was in school you didn't see anyone get naked.
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#25 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 11:26 AM
 
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I haven't read the other comments, but what a stupid argument. FTR, my DH is close to turning 40 (so before uncirc became more popular) and grew up attending Catholic school and playing lots of sports. Even more interesting he went to an all boys Catholic high school. He said NEVER was he ever teased for being uncirc'd. In fact, he said that if some guy would have started to tease him about it, then everyone else probably would have gotten on the other guy's case of looking at another guy's penis to begin with, lol. So, my DH is living proof that the whole locker room thing is more of a scare tactic/myth, than anything...
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#26 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 11:34 AM
 
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I believe my son has had the opposite experience.

He is in daycare one day a week and the boys run in and use the bathroom pretty independently. While he was peeing, one of his buddies noted that his penis was different than ds. Ds apparently explained that this is how boys are born. The poor little boy started telling ds that his own penis was broken. It made me sad that the little boy felt that way about himself, but it was clear he had no experience seeing an uncircumcised penis until he Ds were both peeing.
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#27 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 02:26 PM
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"I refuse to let potential future bullies dictate how I raise my child."

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#28 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 02:37 PM
 
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My DP is 22 and intact. He never had any issues with being made fun of for it. He has told me stories about people talking about foreskins and he would simply say "You got a problem with me?" They would always say "No." And then he would tell them that he still has his foreskin. It would shut them up.
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#29 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 03:35 PM
 
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I would think that an uncircumcised boy would actually have a lot to brag about!
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#30 of 45 Old 04-25-2009, 05:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisdude23 View Post
Medical decisions should not be based on hypothetical ridicule from a immature 14 year old a decade and half from now.
Highlighting this line because it really hits the center of this discussion.
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