Does anyone here have a firstborn circumsized son, and a secondborn son not circ'd? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Our firstboy is circ'd.
He is 4 and has adhesions.

I am pregnant with our 4th child, and if it's a boy, I don't know that I'd circ again(doing research as we speak).
Does anyone here have a circ'd son AND intact sons?
Just curious, because I know one of my husbands arguments will be that he doesn't want them to be different.
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#2 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 02:12 PM
 
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My first son, 6, was circ'ed; I didn't really think about it or question it at the time. Then when I was pregnant with my second son, I discovered Mothering.com, and the rest, they say, is history! I don't really think the question of them being "different" is a big deal; when they get old enough to start asking questions I'll explain it honestly.

T You're in Crystal? I was born and raised in Robbinsdale! I live "Up North" now.
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#3 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 03:16 PM
 
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My first son, 12, is circed. My second son, 10 weeks (and my fourth child) is not circed. At 35, I realize its more important to do what's right (or not do, in the case of circumcision) than to care about what people think (like I did at 22). And I live in Nebraska and according to statistics, 80% of the people in the Midwest still circ .
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#4 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 03:59 PM
 
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Yes. They bathe together everyday so they see each other naked all the time, but my older (circ'ed) son, who would be the one to notice and ask questions, has never mentioned it. My husband was a little put off at first that I insisted on leaving the baby intact but 8 months later it has become a total non-issue.

And I'm far more concerned about how I am going to explain to my firstborn what I allowed to happen to him than I am concerned that the baby will feel "different."
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#5 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 06:02 PM
 
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My oldest is 4 and circumcised but my youngest is 4 months and is intact. Mostly, the issue was a money thing but now that I've done my research I'm very glad we didn't go through with it. Our insurance would not cover the cost of the circumcision and it was $150 we didn't have at the time.
My oldest has seen the younger one's penis and he has asked, but I explained to him a little bit about the procedure (without being terribly graphic) and I told him we had decided it was wrong to do and that I was sorry I'd had him circumcised.
My SO disagreed with my initial desire not to circumcise the baby and was actually pretty adamant about it but I talked to him about it a little and it's become pretty much a non-issue.
Actually, my mother gives me more grief about it than anyone.
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#6 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 06:38 PM
 
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I only have one (intact) son, but I have a good friend whose first two little boys were circed, but whose third (just born this month) was left intact.

She got some grief about it from her family, but seems comfortable with their decision.

Her dh has two brothers - of the three of them, one is intact and two are circed. And it was never an issue growing up.

I have two adopted little brothers (ages 11 and 8 now) - one is circed and one is intact, and again - it's never been an issue (the circed one was circed by the birth mom).
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#7 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 06:51 PM
 
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nak

my oldest was circed at age 7, younger two are not (dh is)

no issues with looking different any more than other ways they are different eg ds1 is anaphylactic to nuts, ds2 loves nuts, they are different, no big deal

the looking different argument is the most trivial argument for circ i can think of
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#8 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 07:15 PM
 
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We had it done with our first because we weren't educated. I hated the experience and felt like a traitor to my brand new baby for allowing it to be done and said I would never allow it again and we didn't. Since our first is and my husband, we didn't know much about uncirc. and thought it might be hard to care for or whatever but couldn't be further from the truth. Each parent has to do their own searching with this, but we are really happy and grateful for our decision to no longer allow it.

Best wishes with your research!

Krista

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
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#9 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 07:23 PM
 
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I've replied on previous threads like this. ds1 is 5, circ'd. Ds2 is 21 mo, intact.

Here's a reply from an earlier thread:

_________________________________

A few things that changed DH's mind:

1. Fewer than 50% of boys in our area (New England) are circ'd, so circ'd kids for ds's generation are the exception, not the rule. For someone who wants their boy to "conform" then leaving him intact will make him more "normal". This didn't really influence DH much, but it showed that many, many other parents are choosing to break the cycle and leave their boys intact.

2. I went through a LOT to prepare for a drug-free labor to leave ds in his natural state when born. Why would I then turn him over at day 1 to be altered and filled with pain?

3. Circumcision can be done any time. It is NOT "easier" to do when they're a baby--they just can't complain and voice their opinion. Leaving him alone until we could both cool off and decide at a later date, or even let him decide as a young adult/adult for himself, is an option many don't consider, because doctors push it at birth because of myths about how babies "need" it sooner rather than later.

4. DS1 had horrible wound care. It was probably no worse than "normal", but he didn't nurse for 12 hours after the procedure, screamed whenever he peed for the first 10 days, and in addition to being sleep deprived we had to have vaseline, gauze, and surgical tape on hand to construct a bandage for the wound when we changed his diaper. Hello! I was lucky to put the diaper on in the right direction those first few weeks, much less construct a complex bandage. PLus he was in so much pain, and they don't tell you to do anything for the pain post-circ, do they? I was never told to give him tylenol after the circumcision, but can you imagine if you had your eyelid cut off in a surgery and got NO pain meds afterwards? Yuck.

5. I refused to sign the paperwork. I told DH I would refuse, and that if he wanted this to escalate into something worse (possible leaving) I would stand my ground. It was THAT important, and DH and I have an outstanding, mature, deep relationship. But nobody, not even the father, messes with my kid.

6. You learn with each kid. Some people formula-feed their first then learn about breastfeeding and bf the second. Should you NOT breastfeed your second solely for consistency? Of course not.

Have him read Paul Fleiss's book.
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#10 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 07:26 PM
 
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I just had our second boy and my dh thinking that it was a girl had agreed after hearing my arguments to let me make the decision this time around. He was quite adamant about our first. Even I had had doubts re: the usual arguments about not looking like his father, his brother, lockerroom, etc etc. I'm sure the same ones that you have thought about. However I was the only one in the hospital the hours before we left when our midwife came in to ask me one last time if we would have ds#2 circ'd.

He had so much poking and prodding that I just couldnt' do it to him just so that he would look like his brother. After I decided to not do it I felt such a relief. It just felt so right and I've felt better and better about it ever since. I feel more and more strongly that it really is his decision to make not mine. He can always be circ'd later and I will fully support him in that decision but he can't be uncirc'd. Also my concerns about circ'ing him with a 50% non-circ'd rate now that will continue, I believe, to decline is that what if he's the odd guy out being circ'd? I'd much rather let him make the decision. And as my midwife brought up, a little boy doesn't look like his father anyway at that age. For her two boys by the time that they were in the locker room situation they were in HS in soccer and 1/2 the other kids on the team were from other countries and weren't circ'd either. We live in teh DC area and I feel confident that the intact rate is higher here.

Incidentally my first hasn't noticed yet and my dh has forgotten about it. Give it time.
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#11 of 25 Old 01-27-2004, 07:45 PM
 
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And I'm far more concerned about how I am going to explain to my firstborn what I allowed to happen to him than I am concerned that the baby will feel "different."

That's my view exactly Super pickle!
Ds1 is 4 and circed, ds2 is 19 mo and intact. I don't care if they look alike or not, and neither will they. Think about it, what kid would ever say " Mom why didn't you cut the end off my d*** so it would be the same as my big brothers? C'mon, why'd ya leave it alone? Less pain, more pleasure, bigger erections, no pubic hair on the shaft...Geez I can't believe you didn't realize how much time big brother and I would spend comparing them."
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#12 of 25 Old 01-28-2004, 12:12 AM
 
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Adam is circ'd, Luke isn't. With Adam, we just did what (I thought) everyone else did. With Luke, we did a lot more research and decided that it wasn't in the best interest of our son to cut off a functioning part of his penis. In fact, when Luke was born, he had to be put under general anesthesia to have a testicle removed (it had twisted, lost blood supply, and died) and when the pediatric urologist asked us if we wanted to circ him during the testicle procedure, we adamantly refused. (And the doctor was relieved to hear our decision. Yay for enlightened doctors!)

Proud Catholic, homeschooling, RN-student mama of
DS 10 reading.gif  DS 8 fencing.gif DS 5, DD 3 energy.gif and a new DS  belly.gif 3/2011
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#13 of 25 Old 01-28-2004, 02:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks so much for the response!
I brought it up to DH tonight, and to my surprise, he wasn't even concerned with them not looking the same!
He was more concerned with why our first son's penis seems so small and weird, and if the circ was the problem, he doesn't want another one.
That's a good first step, I guess!
Off to show him some facts.

I really hope my son doesn't have any further long term issues with his penis! He has been through so much trauma in that area anyways. A couple months ago, he had a freak accident involving a fall, and ripped a hole in his scrotum that required 17 stitches. The poor baby!
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#14 of 25 Old 01-28-2004, 04:24 PM
 
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thanks everyone for sharing thoughts. So glad someone else asked the question!

our first IS circ (I feel I regret) and is 21 mons. our new addition is 3 weeks and we've been on the fence. the only reason we could think of to do it is so that they would be the same, and then we would not have to explain how we made a mistake the first time. But they are ridiculous excuses and we will not do it this time around.

What ever we tell them later, it certainly won't be negative and all about our regret or that what we did was a mistake (though we may feel that way now). I'd rather it be postitive and more about 'everyone is different' and need not be the same. I'd rather say we were less aware or not as well informed the first time. And to look either way is OK. We will want both our boys to feel good about how they look, and that their P's need not be the same.

we had no medical probs w/ the first son's circ and we are fortunate. i hope our decision will help others realize that it is such an unnecessary thing to do.
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#15 of 25 Old 01-28-2004, 11:41 PM
 
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DS is circ'd, but we won't circ any future boys. We plan to just explain to DS that when he was born we thought it was best, but by the time DS#2 was born we had learned it was best to leave things the way God created them. I don't expect it to be a huge issue. Good luck in your research!
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#16 of 25 Old 01-30-2004, 02:12 PM
 
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Both my ds's are circ'd and I wouldn't do it again. Our only argument for it would so they wouldn't look different. I finally realized that that's a bunch of hooey! My dh and oldest ds both have glasses. I wouldn't make any of my other kids get glasses so they'd look the same--why would I have a part of their body cut off? I only wish I'd have come to that realization before I had ds #2 circ'd.
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#17 of 25 Old 01-31-2004, 08:46 PM
 
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3under3- Another great perk in being in the community we are in as far as our "tribe" or all of the AP parents you and I are both involved with, is that no-one circumcises!

wife - mother - midwife

CIRCUMCISION

The more you know, the worse it gets.

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#18 of 25 Old 02-03-2004, 01:42 AM
 
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Yep! Ds1 is circed, which I deeply regret; ds2 isn't. It was actually a great teaching experience, as I was able to talk to ds1 about what happened to him; and why (ignorance).

Kristi

"Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen." Ralph Marston

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#19 of 25 Old 02-03-2004, 11:19 AM
 
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I have 3 sons, and the oldest two are circumcised. My youngest is intact. With ds1 we didn't know anything about circ except that "everybody else" (dh included) was, and ds2 was circ'd at the hospital w/o consent. Our youngest son is intact--as will be any other sons who may come along. I did struggle with whether or not to circ ds3, but only until I realized that there is no other area of my parenting where I would do something wrong just b/c that was how I did it with my last child. When you know better you do better. Also, all 3 of my children have different color eyes--this is not a problem. It's ok for them to be different from each other. Circumsion is not necessary--why not let your son decide when he is grown.
Peace,
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#20 of 25 Old 02-03-2004, 11:35 AM
 
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we circ'ed our older ds (now 6 1/2yo) out of ignorance, and the assumption that it was 'what was done'.
after his circ healed, we thought there seemed to be a lot of skin left - and in the following year, he had a growth of scar tissue that was beginning to impede his urine stream.
at 2 1/2, we took him to a urologist, who advised that we re-circ due to the overgrowth.
ds had to be put under for the operation, and dh couldn't get out of work, so i went to the hospital alone. i sat through an hour of guilt and worry while my only baby (at the time) was under anesthesia and being cut again...
between his first and second circ's i did a lot of reading and research, and felt terribly guilty that i had even consented to the procedure the first time - especially since as a result, my son had to be put through it a second time.
when i became pregnant with our third child, a son, i had told dh i had no intention of circ'ing again. we talked a lot about it, and i gave him all the information i had - he somewhat reluctantly agreed (he was circ'ed at birth as well, and was still somewhat under the impression that it was "healthier")
when ds was born we accompanied him down to the nursery for his hearing test, and while there, we heard a baby crying - screaming its lungs out. looking up into the adjoining room, we saw my ob performing a circumcision.
dh asked "is he doing what i think he's doing??!"
on the way back to the room after ds hearing check, dh, who was pushing the bassinet down the hall, leaned over ds and whispered "no one is ever getting anywhere near your penis with anything sharp!!"
he's a convert

when we made the decision not to circ ds2, i talked extensively to ds1 about why we had circ'ed him, how we felt differently about it, and regretted the decision, why we decided against it with ds2; and asked him what he thought about looking diffferent, etc. he said he didn't think it was a big deal at all, and he was glad we decided to leave his brother's penis 'alone':LOL
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#21 of 25 Old 02-03-2004, 01:45 PM
 
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Technically we don't have the second yet but my DH has a son from a previous relationship who is circumcised and we have agreed to not circumcise any future boys we have.

So far we have 4 additional daughters but I am pregnant now.
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#22 of 25 Old 02-04-2004, 02:10 AM
 
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Leigh-Ann:

If your son was circumcised without consent, it was an illegal act performed by your doctor. You can and should bring legal action against that doctor. He/she stole a valuable possession from your son and he/she should reimburse your son for his loss.

There is a statute of limitations of three years in most states and any action must be filed before the third anniversary of your son's circumcsion which I assume would be the day after his third birthday.

There are attorneys who specialize in this area. I will be happy to refer you to some if you would like.




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#23 of 25 Old 02-04-2004, 12:23 PM
 
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Hi Frank,
I wasn't aware that I could sue for this although I guess common sense should have told me that...my Dad is an attorney, but believe it or not the subject has never come up. I will ask him if I can still do anything or if it is too late--my son is 3.5yo now. This is something that both my husband and I are very bitter about. I got out my medical record from my son's birth, and they have listed that we consented to circumsion. We didn't and of course there is no documentation that we did--only a check mark on a box that I assume a nurse marked "for us". Mamas if you don't want your little one circ'd, don't let him out of your sight--or better yet, have a homebirth where no one is lurking around waiting to cut your babe.

Sorry to hijack the thread...

Thank you for your response, Frank. This makes me so sad
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#24 of 25 Old 02-04-2004, 12:56 PM
 
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Leigh-Ann:

Since I don't know what state you are in, I can not address the statute of limitations issue but your father should be able to advise you. Recent court cases have established that your son can bring action on his own when he reaches 18 years old and in fact, an Atlanta man just recently settled a case like this with the doctor and hospital that did a non-consensual circumcision on him about 21 years ago. The attorney that handled that case was David Llewellyn of Atlanta. David has brought many of these cases and is currently working on cases with similar circumstances. He works on these cases throughout the country and is probably the most experienced attorney in this field. I would recommend you contact him to learn exactly what can be done. It is possible that you can bring an action on the behalf of your son.

Consider this your moral and ethical responsibility to mankind. No doctor had any right to just decide to chop parts of your son's body off. Without any rammifications of this unethical and irresponsible act, he/she is likely to continue doing it to other families and boys. You can benefit other families and men from this invasive and destructive violation by making it too costly and too risky to do. Your son also deserves recompense for his loss. Get your son what he deserves!

The main thing to do at this point is to preserve the birth records from your son's birth so that they are available should your son decide to pursue this on his own. I can tell you from experience that these records have a way of disappearing when they find out there is a legal action on the horizon. With a competent attorney guiding you, you can make sure these records are available. I will PM you with the particulars about David Llewellyn.





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#25 of 25 Old 02-04-2004, 02:32 PM
 
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Adding my .02....I would think the hospital would be liable, too, not just the doctor who circed your son. Where was the informed consent form? A check box on a form just doesn't hack it.

I can't imagine how angry you must have been, Leigh-Ann. I agree with Frank, definitely pursue your legal options. Your son was wronged and deserves justice.


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