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#1 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I was talking to another mom today who has a 10 month old boy. He had oral surgery to remove some kind of lump in his mouth that wasn't going away.

She said: "People say babies don't remember pain, but he remembered! His circumcision, though - he wouldn't remember that since he was only 2 days old. But this, he'll remember!"

:

Ironically, years from now, the surgery he "doesn't remember" will be the one that's still affecting his life. (FTR, she didn't do it for religious reasons. I don't know why she did.)

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#2 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 12:56 AM
 
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I fully believe that babies remember circumcision.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#3 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 01:22 AM
 
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I do to Puppy. Every single thing that happens to us through our life from the time our brain forms until the day we die I firmly believe is stored in our brains. Not having a conscious memory of it makes no difference it affects who we are and will become.

 
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#4 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 01:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer View Post
I fully believe that babies remember circumcision.
In one way or another.
They can't see what's going on, but they can hear voices, smell smells and, of course, feel pain.
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#5 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 03:10 AM
 
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In one way or another.
They can't see what's going on, but they can hear voices, smell smells and, of course, feel pain.
Plus they'll have a circumcision scar and a distinct lack of foreskin to remind them should they ever forget.
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#6 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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Most of the time whenever I'm around a kid who gets hurt and is a boy . They let out a Huge screeching, panic , screaming cry and with brendan when he did get hurt his cry was more of a 'relaxed' but still sad, scared cry . Now kids his age still have the screaming cry when they get hurt but he's like I'm okay momma or if he's not he will say momma kiss my owie.

I wonder if everytime a kid got a pain would remember their pain from their circumcision cause them to really overreact to the now pain ?
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#7 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 04:09 PM
 
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Most of the time whenever I'm around a kid who gets hurt and is a boy . They let out a Huge screeching, panic , screaming cry and with brendan when he did get hurt his cry was more of a 'relaxed' but still sad, scared cry . Now kids his age still have the screaming cry when they get hurt but he's like I'm okay momma or if he's not he will say momma kiss my owie.

I wonder if everytime a kid got a pain would remember their pain from their circumcision cause them to really overreact to the now pain ?
There have been studies showing that the pain of curcumcision DOES affect their response to painful stimuli afterwards. They definitely appear to have a greater response to pain if they've been circumcised.

Another thing I've noticed, all the moms who seem to 'insist' that their boy babies were so different from thier girl babies seem to be circumcised. And, I'm talking as babies. Honestly, as a mom to all intact kiddos both girls and boys I don't see much of a gender difference until a couple of years. Just speculation on this one. No doubt the moms I know who had it done to their boys had little boys who had a tremendous amount of pain/discomfort and that would alter their potential to be happy contented babies.

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#8 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 04:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BamaDude View Post
Plus they'll have a circumcision scar and a distinct lack of foreskin to remind them should they ever forget.
It most definitely alters things permanently, even if they don't realize it.

I've had my experiences here with someone who had a typical midwestern tight circ and thought discomfort, skin splitting apart, injuries during masturbation were all 'normal' parts of being a man.

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#9 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 05:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MommytoB View Post
Most of the time whenever I'm around a kid who gets hurt and is a boy . They let out a Huge screeching, panic , screaming cry and with brendan when he did get hurt his cry was more of a 'relaxed' but still sad, scared cry . Now kids his age still have the screaming cry when they get hurt but he's like I'm okay momma or if he's not he will say momma kiss my owie.

I wonder if everytime a kid got a pain would remember their pain from their circumcision cause them to really overreact to the now pain ?
I'm not sure about this. My intact son screams like a hyena whenever he gets hurt. I think he could shatter glass. I have heard, however, about the studies that show circ'd babies have lower pain thresholds than intact ones.
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#10 of 31 Old 08-05-2009, 05:14 PM
 
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I just posted a few days ago in another thread, studies showing that cortisol levels go up during circumcision and don't return to base levels for weeks, possibly months.

Mind you this is happening in the very early newborn stage when the brain is still trying to make all the connections. Anyone who thinks this has no long term effects on behavior and neurodevelopement is seriously deceiving themselves.

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#11 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 12:46 PM
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A few of the studies on circumcision pain


Study shows that infants feel and remember circumcision pain


http://www.sickkids.ca/aboutsickkids...sion-pain.html


Circumcision study halted due to trauma


http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/ci...on.anesthetic/



Study supports easing circumcision pain


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Study+...pain-a06519277
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#12 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 02:53 PM
 
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Study supports easing circumcision pain


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Study+...pain-a06519277
Too bad they didn't include intact babies in this study to show crying time and cortisol levels on a true control group.

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#13 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 03:25 PM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!
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#14 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 03:34 PM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!
By medicalized intervention heavy hospital birth? YES!

By a peaceful intervention free birth? NO

Have you seen videos of home water births...the babies in most cases are NOT crying...they seem very peaceful.

Either way, it's no excuse to heap on more trauma!

Let's see, I accidentally cut myself with a sharp knife. It's traumatic...should I then go slam it in a car door for fun?

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#15 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 07:27 PM
 
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I do think birth is traumatic in a way but it is a way nature intended it to be. While circ is in no way shape or form natural.

There is a huge difference between the births I have watched online between the reaction of a baby born in the hospital with lots of pulling and tugging to the babies born where no one touches them until they are sliding out.

 
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#16 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 08:00 PM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!
My daughter didn't make a sound when she was born. She just, kinda looked at us, LOL

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#17 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 09:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MommytoB View Post
Most of the time whenever I'm around a kid who gets hurt and is a boy . They let out a Huge screeching, panic , screaming cry and with brendan when he did get hurt his cry was more of a 'relaxed' but still sad, scared cry . Now kids his age still have the screaming cry when they get hurt but he's like I'm okay momma or if he's not he will say momma kiss my owie.

I wonder if everytime a kid got a pain would remember their pain from their circumcision cause them to really overreact to the now pain ?

That would make sense I believe that is what happens to Ds I actually said something along those lines to a friend of mine! My ds when he gets a cut mostly he will literally act as though he has been beaten and hold the area and shake even though it may be a tiny scratch! poor boy maybe if the hospital didn't circ him with out my consent he may not get nutty when he gets a cut!

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#18 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 09:57 PM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!

Of course it is, it is the most traumatic event in everyones life. Ds did not come out screaming though. He was also a hospital birth but he only whined a little then just wide eyed looked at everything he actually didn't cry hard for about 4 days but made up for it for 2 days

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#19 of 31 Old 08-06-2009, 11:26 PM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!
Dd1 was born in a hospital. She didn't cry at first. She just looked around peacefully and took things in. Because of this she was torn from my arms and traumatized until she did.

Dd2 was born at home. She, like her sister, didn't cry. Unlike her sister, she wasn't forced to.

Perhaps this is why Dd1 is a very needy child and Dd2 is pretty mellow.

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#20 of 31 Old 08-07-2009, 11:52 AM
 
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My DP remembers his newborn genital mutilation

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#21 of 31 Old 08-07-2009, 01:34 PM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!
My daughter didn't cry. She was born at home in the water, lights low, no one talking but me. I don't believe my daughter was "traumatized" by birth. It was probably work for her, just as it was for me, but "trauma"? No.
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#22 of 31 Old 08-07-2009, 03:28 PM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!
DD2 didn't cry until the pediatrician took her.

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#23 of 31 Old 08-07-2009, 03:54 PM
 
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Only my ds1 cried at birth bc they took him away from me in the hospital. My ds2 and ds3 were born at home and no screaming or crying. I don't believe that natural, gentle birth is traumatic at all.

Those studies are very interesting. I def believe that every experience, esp one so traumatic and painful as circ on a newborn, stays w/that person for the rest of their lives.

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#24 of 31 Old 08-07-2009, 04:09 PM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!
My daughter didn't come out crying either. She came out with her eyes open, looking around. She didn't cry till she got the shots - vit k and hep b (I don't vax anymore).
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#25 of 31 Old 08-10-2009, 01:58 AM
 
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Would you all then believe that babies are traumatized by birth, as well?

That's a pretty huge traumatic event. Every one of them comes out screaming and crying!
My babies didn't come out screaming and crying. Why would they when dh caught them and handed them up to their mama to nurse and snuggle under the covers?
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#26 of 31 Old 08-10-2009, 06:36 PM
 
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ds had a very peaceful birth but he came out mad and screaming. He's just that type of person I think. He's also intact but screams and gets very mad when he gets hurt.


I think a lot is based on personality, but I also agree that traumatic events effect people their entire life, no matter when in their life they experienced it.

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#27 of 31 Old 08-10-2009, 06:55 PM
 
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ds had a very peaceful birth but he came out mad and screaming. He's just that type of person I think. He's also intact but screams and gets very mad when he gets hurt.


I think a lot is based on personality, but I also agree that traumatic events effect people their entire life, no matter when in their life they experienced it.
That's funny! Dd was born nearly 3 weeks before her due date, and almost in the car. I totally chalk that up to her personality. She's about as impatient as one can be.
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#28 of 31 Old 08-11-2009, 03:37 PM
 
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I don't know for sure about circ' pain. But at 14mnths my brother required major cranial surgery. The last thing they did before the anesthesia, was shave his head. He had major panic reactions to the sound of electric clippers until he was about 12. I personally believe babies can't NOT be effected in some way by genital surgery with no pain meds.

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#29 of 31 Old 08-12-2009, 05:35 PM
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I do to Puppy. Every single thing that happens to us through our life from the time our brain forms until the day we die I firmly believe is stored in our brains. Not having a conscious memory of it makes no difference it affects who we are and will become.
The part of the brain called the amygdala remembers the associated emotions of every experience. So even if you don't have a "memory" of the event, per se, part of your brain still remembers what it felt like.

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#30 of 31 Old 08-12-2009, 05:52 PM
 
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Have any of you read the book Babies Remember Birth by Chamberlain? I read it when pregnant with my first, about 8 years ago. Interesting book. He didn't discuss circumcision but I wonder if he has any research on the topic.

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