But please please please do NOT pull his adhesions back! You just need to leave them alone.
Please read thru the threads here on CAC...you will learn alot. Please also search for a foreskin friendly ped in your Finding Your Tribe forum.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave the adhesions alone. We used to pull them apart as well at the instructions of our physician. We got the same story you have heard about the first nighttime erection. (Do we have the same pedi?)
Pulling the adhesions apart can lead to permanent scarring and nerve damage. They are a result of the remaining foreskin attempting to act as an intact foreskin would. They will loosen the same way an intact male becomes retractable over time.
You can PM me if you need any further info about the adhesions.
"Well, we won't do that again!"
Thank you for the support here.
Back in High School [ which wasn`t that long ago, seeing as I am just 22 years old ], I dated a guy for a couple years who was not circumcised. It was one thing he never forgave his parents for. He told me several times of his embarassment "in the locker room", and how when he turned 18 he was going to have it done himself. Because of this, it was dwelled in my head that a boy would be better off being circumcised. But honestly, I never really put much thought into it..
Years later, my husband and I discover we are pregnant. Circumcision never crossed my mind, nor did my husband and I ever discuss it. When I was admitted into the hospital and was signing papers, the question of circumcision came up. I looked at Thomas, who shrugged, and told me it was up to me [ my husband is circ'd ]. I then ask my nurse what she thought and she told me she suggested I do so. So there you have it, I agreed to it.
The next day, Tommy [ my son ] is taken into the nursery for his "routine circ". Thomas went with him to see it be done. I walked into the nursery directly after it was performed to a screaming baby and a husband with tear-filled eyes. His words were "Brandi, I didn't think it would be like that". I looked at my son and just bawled along with him. I picked him up, walked into the breastfeeding room, and nursed him til his heart's content, the whole time beating myself up in my head over this. What did I put him through? And why? So he could be like everyone else?
This moment still lingers in my mind. So many times I have apologized to my now 11 month old for what I allowed him to be put through, even if he doesn't remember it. Thomas and I decided together that from this point forward, any other baby boy we give birth to, will remain INTACT.
Wife to Thomas (03/05) Mama to Tommy (04/06) & Emma (01/10)
SAHMlovin' fan to DD 10/00 & DS 10/04 If your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumCirc, a personal choice, Your sons11/986/99anti-tobaccoThyroid cancer survivor. With & & (Boxer) wishing 4 &
There will come a time where he may question our decision and we will be honest, we took something that wasn't ours to take, but he will always know how perfect he is and how sorry we are that we made that decision.
Reading this forum made me sad to hear all the mothers who live with such deep guilt for something most of them did with good intentions. Although I am regretful, I am not guilty, our decision came from the purest part of our hearts.
I just left the choice up to my husband and said "What do I know? I'm not a man!" How awful of me!!
I was the one that had to take him to the pediatrician for the circ itself and sit alone in the waiting room CRYING. I should have realized that something was wrong if I was crying!!!
I can't even read half of the stuff about why it's bad ... I already feel bad enough as it is. I just know if we have anymore sons, it will not be happening.
I feel like I failed my son as a parent for not getting all the information before making such a big choice like that, but now I am way more cautious about other things. This is why I hate it when people say it's so bad to make FF'ing moms feel guilty - I wish someone would have actually TOLD me this from the medical field. I wish someone would have made me feel guilty so I could have spent a little more time considering the decision I was making.
Anyway . . . . I just really needed to vent all that out!! It's a subject that kind of makes me sad to think of... but it's been on my mind on and off since realizing what a mistake I made....
I wish someone would have actually TOLD me this from the medical field. I wish someone would have made me feel guilty so I could have spent a little more time considering the decision I was making...
or that ultrasounds during pregnancy ARE harmful for the baby (I had tons of them with my first one )
But we all learn and do better when we know. It eases my pain to know that our second baby will NEVER receive any shots and had just one u/s . We need to learn how to forgive ourselves. It's extremely hard though .
I get so upset that this is even still allowed to happen. I get upset when I think about all the little boys that are going to go through this, and the moms who might regret it later, and angry at the ones who don't. I know a lot of little boys on the way IRL & on the net that will be cut, and I feel helpless because I know the parents won't listen to any info I share.
I wish I could live my life over again so I can do right what I did wrong.
Please forgive yourselves - the medical profession is VERY culpable in perpetuating circumcision (and the pain it causes for all involved ).
Some of the best advocates for little boys are regretful parents...people who wouldn't listen to anyone/anything else will often take on board the comments of someone who has been there and is warning them.
Thanks for sharing your stories. I think this thread is very powerful and has saved many little boys.
I happened to catch this yesterday and I thought it was relevant because this man directed his anger at the medical community and the 'system'-- and although angry that his mother had him circumcised, he was not angry at her.
From: They Cut Babies, Don't They?
Posted by: MGMbill
Dh, Joshua Rebeccaand . for Laura
Come to terms with the past
Reflect on your misjudgement/mistake/wrongdoing
Make ammends with yourself and your child
Go forward with an differnet approach (i.e., if I ever have another son, I will NOT do this)
Make attempts to speak out honestly to friends and the public siting the unecessity of circumsicion
I have gone through all these points personally in the last year and a half. My son will soon be turning 3. I know I made a mistake even though I didnt' want to do it. I let others "reassure" me that this was the right thing. I second guessed myself, but I learned an important mothering lesson. Never, ever to give away my power of maternal instincts. It was an awful, heavy price to pay, but my son has had other ongoing medical issues (reflux, autism) that forced me to move forward. You need to cry to someone, apologize, defend your actions, whatever it is that will help you come to "big terms" with the circ. I hate it every time I think about how friggin stupid I was, but you have to move forward. One day, when your boys are big, you can discuss this with them...Hopefully even convince them against male circumcision
I circumcised my 8 year old too.
We didn't want to circumcise our 5 year old, but we weren't prepared with research and weren't prepared for the bullying from the doctor. Against my better instincts, he was circumcised.
I do regret them all.
Should this fourth baby be a boy, he will not be circumcised, even though he has a dad and three brothers who are (as well as friends and family who might be shocked). He will stay intact.
We live and we learn and sometimes we live to regret.
"Well behaved women rarely make history"
When we had our third son-- fourth child-- I was considerably older (29! Hah!) and even better educated. From even before his (deliberate) conception, I was emphatic and firm that I would not circumcise another boy. We could choose not to conceive another child if my husband wanted, but if we did have one and the child was a boy, I would not circ him. I still maintained a sensitivity to my husband's feelings-- made it clear that it wasn't a value judgment on him, just that it was an unnecessary practice. I talked to my father-in-law, who was intact, and asked him why he'd chosen to circ his sons (his answer: he hadn't. The doctors just did it back in 1973, or only asked the mother). I took that info to my husband. I asked my OB for his *personal* opinion as a medical professional and extracted from him that he's very much opposed to the practice for medical reasons. I took *that* info to my husband, presenting it strictly as medical info rather than in a "me and the OB are ganging up on you" kind of way.
When Luke was born and they asked if I wanted him circumcised, I cannot tell you how *light* I felt, how victorious, when I said "no." I had gone against a lot of pressure to have him circ'ed-- less from my husband at that point than from my mother and from friends who were dubious about whether my sons really wouldn't care that they looked "different". I felt I had broken the cycle of this practice in our family, and done something good.
Luke just turned 1, and he hasn't had any urinary tract infections or any of the other spooky problems they warn you about, like swelling or redness or whatever. When I was expecting him I'd hoped for a girl (I admit), so I could have an "even set" between my 4 kids, but one highlight of having a boy was proving to myself that I really *had* changed, that I wouldn't just *say* I'd make a different decision if I had it to do over, but that I really would (and did!).
I think what I'd want to tell other moms who had this experience or are considering what to do in the future, is the following... that first, it's not productive to actively regret, or feel guilty about, having your earlier sons circumcised. You made the choice you did with the information and emotional reasoning you had available to you at that time-- it wasn't a malicious act, and it won't ruin your son's life. People may balk at my saying that, but there are plenty of circumcised men out there walking around perfectly content with their bodies and their sex lives. As women we've spent way too much time trying to convince men that the world doesn't revolve around their penises to turn past circumcision decisions into a central issue of guilt as mothers.
Secondly, I would want to say that it *is* possible to turn a balky husband around on this issue. Mine *never* got to the point where he actually agreed with me about the decision, only to the point where he could see that I felt strongly enough that it wasn't worth it to him to argue. When the baby was very young he said a couple things like "it would look better snipped"... but now that the baby's a year old, he couldn't care less. I think it helped my husband to know that the decision made for *him* as a newborn was an arbitrary one based on outdated information. Meaning no offense to anyone, the "a son should look like his father" thing is a silly argument. If a son's penis looks anything like his father's during the next 14 years, the child has a glandular problem. Past that point, it shouldn't be much of a challenge to explain the difference in foreskin. I can understand that it can be difficult for a man not to validate the decision his parents made at his own birth, but still-- what man wouldn't want to give his son an extra half inch of penis? It's the gift that keeps on giving... (ugh... no, I guess I didn't have to say that :-) )
If others are researching on here (as I did, on the internet generally, before I had Luke), I wish you luck in making that decision. Choosing not to circ a son after you've already circ'ed in the past is definitely not the path of least resistance, but in the end it's very easy in that you take no action and, in most cases, reap no repercussions. And you can know you went to bat for your kid, and that you were brave and strong.
The next 2 boys, born at home are not circumcised. My midwife opened the door to many things about pregnancy, birth and babies!!!
Do your homework before deciding!!!
And it is not an issue in our house. Many people have asked me that. Boys are just happy to have something hanging and don't pay attention to extral skin on the end.
Any other sons I have will NOT be circumsized.
Hi. I posted a request in the above link. ITs on the circ board here. :-) I think you're supposed to paste a link not post duplicate posts, so that's why I did it this way.
As a ps, if you'd like re: permission, let me know if I can just use any posts here, in addition. TIA!
With our first born, Evan, I am ashamed to say that we hardly discussed it beyond answering the hospital staff’s question of "When would you like your son circumcised here?" It was just a given that Evan would be circumcised because his dad was circumcised. At that point, I had never seen an uncircumcised penis, not even Evan’s. I never changed his diapers in the hospital. Today I regret that, I should have changed his diapers and seen what he looked like naturally. I feel like even more of an idiot when I remember that neither one of us accompanied our son to his surgery. We let our defenseless, one-day-old baby be taken away from us to be mutilated; yet, we wouldn’t let him make one trip to the nursery alone...horribly ironic! As for the effects after the circumcision, Evan was only one day old and I think it sent him into "shell-shock". He did not nurse very well at all and he slept constantly. Owen changed all of his diapers for a good long while so I can’t say much about the immediate physical damage. Later when he was a few months old the pediatrician noticed his skin was sort of growing down or attaching to the head of his penis (now I know it is a problem called “adhesions”) so during 2 separate visits he grabbed that skin and literally ripped it back.
Evan screamed, as you can imagine, and his penis was bleeding and raw.
Our second son, Colby, was born in a birthing center so the atmosphere was definitely different, more accepting of what’s natural. However, in my prenatal care, the subject of circumcision again hardly came up. My midwife did not even delve into the subject. The only time it was discussed was when we were trying to decide the risks and benefits of the vitamin K shot and whether we would subject our baby to that shot. Again, devastatingly ironic! Here we were laboring over the decision of a shot, but when it came to the mutilation of our boy, we just said quickly “Well if the baby is a boy, we’re going to circumcise him because his dad and brother are circumcised.” After Colby was born, I was able to see what an uncircumcised penis looked like. My boy was so beautiful, so peaceful. He was not in the shell-shocked state that Evan was in - after all that Evan had to endure in the hospital. I changed Colby’s diapers for a week. The gravity of what we were about to do was starting to set in. Every time I looked at Colby’s penis, I felt sad for Evan and for how we had altered him. I cried. I talked to his dad about it and wondered how can we do this to our beautiful baby? Time was running out. His circumcision appointment with the pediatrician was drawing near. I tried to engage other people around us in conversation about it to see if I could garner any support for the idea of not circumcising Colby. Some did not want to talk about it. Most gave all kinds of reasons why we should circumcise him. Only one friend told me the truth about circumcision. I listened to her, but I was too passive and I let the circumcision happen anyway.
At least this time I had the guts to watch it. I felt like it was my responsibility to watch Colby’s circumcision since it was half my decision (half Owen’s) and it would be cowardly for me to hide in another room to distance myself from it. It was brutal! If anyone out there is considering circumcision for their baby, please look at pictures or video of a baby being circumcised. If I had seen Evan’s circumcision ¬ I NEVER would have subjected Colby to it, too. The horrible reality of the procedure being forced upon my child is seared into my brain. I have dreams about stepping in (when the doctor is suiting up and strapping Colby down) and saying “stop this, don’t do it!” and snatching him away and protecting him. Unfortunately, that’s just a dream. (Maybe by sharing this with you and other people who may read it, I can make that dream a reality for some other baby boy.) As for the after-effects, he was so sleepy afterward. He would go 6 hours before nursing, instead of his usual 2-3 hours. And his penis and scrotum were so swollen and bruised for many, many days. He would cry when we touched the area. And he also developed a hidden or “buried” penis. His traumatized penis receded up into his body and is rarely seen on the outside. Perhaps it is caused by too much shaft skin being removed. Potty training now is tricky because when he stands to pee, it doesn’t come out in a stream, it dribbles all down his front unless you make his penis come out. But, it also causes him discomfort when we push on the area to make it come out.
Owen and I have been talking about it a lot lately. I was able to finally do the research and back up what my instincts were telling me during that one week when Colby was intact. After much explanation, and many tears, he was able to feel it too. He now realizes we made a mistake and feels so bad for our sons. We can never take it back. All we can do now is apologize. Some days I feel like I’ve made peace with it. However, some days my guilt is overwhelming and I feel angry at everyone; the medical community who never asked us the tough questions, my OB, my pediatrician, my midwife, my husband for talking me into it, our families, my sister (I never got one inkling that she supported my idea to leave Colby intact) insurance companies that still cover it, but most of my anger is at myself. I am responsible.
Circumcision strained my relationship with my sister too. When she told me that her 3rd son (born just 6 months after Colby) would be the first in the family to NOT be circumcised, my knee-jerk, competitive, selfish reaction was: “What?! How can you do that? Where were you when I needed your support with that same decision? I felt like you were talking me into circumcision? Now you and your 3rd son get to reap the benefits of my torture.” Now, I know that it’s hateful and selfish, and I never said these things out loud to her. But I had to actively and consciously allow my joy (and relief) for her baby boy to take over. But I am still angry with her because she remembers our interactions differently, she thinks that she was anti-circ but that she didn’t want to pressure me because I had already decided to have it done.
When I was trying to talk to people about whether to circumcise or not, people said things like;
•It’s better to do it when he’s a baby and can’t remember it.
•His genitals will look weird, like an anteater.
•His self-esteem, self-image will be damaged.
•He’s going to grow up with a complex about looking different.
•He’ll resent you for not doing it when he’s a baby.
•He should be circumcised because his dad (brother) is.
•How will you possible explain why you circumcised Evan but not Colby? (It was a conversation that my husband did not want to have with the boys.)
•My sister talked about how old uncircumcised men in nursing homes get penis infections all the time, and that a male nurse she works with says uncircumcised Mexican boys come into the hospital all the time with penis infections.
•One guy told my sister that he always wondered what was wrong with the Mexicans in school and why they looked different. Also, he would have been pissed if his mother would not have done it when he was a baby because he would have had to do it as an adult and then he’d feel the pain and remember it. (I’m sorry, I know the reference to Mexicans will offend, as it offends me too, but I HAD to include it because those were the things I heard. These whacked social ideas exist and still lead to boys being circumcised.)
Now I see the errors of the statements above. All those people were making assumptions based on growing up when being circumcised was the norm in America. They imagine their resentment at being left intact, but they can never know that for sure. However, plenty of men now feel resentment for being circumcised, there’s no mistaking that once you start reading their stories. If your grown-up son resents you for not cutting him, at least he’ll be old enough at that point to make the decision for himself. He can go ahead and do it (if he feels that strongly about it.) But you can never go back and put it back on. Plus, with the falling numbers of circumcisions happening in this country, chances are by the time our babies are in school, half or more of the boys will be intact...so an intact son will be more “normal” than many people realize.
Consider, if you will, how ridiculous the following statements sound:
•"I hope you’re not considering letting your daughter go uncircumcised."
•"The clitoris and outer lips serve no function, she won’t miss them."
•"Plus all that extra skin down there just looks so weird."
•"It’s gross! And you know she’ll just have infections all the time. She won’t be able to keep herself clean."
•"You know, when she gets to school and all the girls are comparing their vulvas in PE or in the bathroom, she’ll be teased unmercifully."
•"I think I heard that girls don’t even feel pain when they cut it off. But even if they do, she won’t remember the pain of it if done when she’s a baby."
•"She’ll resent you for not getting her circumcised when she was a baby. It will be more expensive and painful to get circumcised when she wants to have it done as an adult."
We obviously view female circumcision as "female genital mutilation." I have known about female genital mutilation in other countries for many years and it always sickened me to hear or read about it. I feel so damned stupid for never making that connection when it came to the boys. It is time that we regard the circumcision of boys as "genital mutilation" as well. I had thought that I was such an open-minded, natural kind of gal, but I missed the boat by such a long shot when it came to circumcision. I think because it is never discussed, or it is just dismissed as the norm, in mainstream information. Now I have come to realize that I trust nature in so many other aspects of life...I should have trusted nature when it came to my boy’s anatomy. If a boy is not supposed to have foreskin on his penis, then boys would have evolved that way.
My husband has come around and feels remorse for his decisions, and sadness at the decision of his parents for having circumcised him. One morning, he told me he was on the internet all night researching it. Many adult men still carry the psychological scar of being circumcised as a baby. The feelings of learned helplessness and passivity are directly connected to the time when they were strapped down and subjected to excruciating pain and they could neither fight nor flee. How could it not make a deep imprint on his spirit? This is primal stuff. It started to click with us. My husband has been struggling with feelings of passivity his whole life. What if his struggle to make decisions comes from the fact that one of the most important decisions was literally ripped from him when he was hours or days old? It makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? Why did it take 30 years to come to the realization? Why did doctors in the past just want to prescribe lithium and anti-depressants with no thought to the underlying cause? AGGGHHHH! The madness of it all!
Listen to your heart and protect your children the way they’ll be born into this world. Until you are 100% satisfied that the necessity, the safety, and the benefits of the procedure outweigh the risks...don’t do it. You can always put it off until later, but you can never take it back once it is done. Your decision should not be quick or flippant because it will last his whole life, and yours. I will forever regret my decisions to circumcise my 2 boys. It haunts me.
SAHMlovin' fan to DD 10/00 & DS 10/04 If your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumCirc, a personal choice, Your sons11/986/99anti-tobaccoThyroid cancer survivor. With & & (Boxer) wishing 4 &
He was released from the NICU on Saturday, December 9, and had a follow-up appointment with the pediatrician on Tuesday. At that appointment, another was made for the circ to be done on December 19. I had asked my husband before he was born if he thought we should circ him, and he said, "OF COURSE!" Of course, my husband is circed.
I didn't research it. Almost every man I know or have ever known has been circed. Only one I knew hadn't been, and he told me it had taken him years to get over the "shame" he felt at being "different" than everyone else. So, I didn't research it. I didn't bother to find out what is really done, or what is taken, and what a crime it is.
I tried so hard to be the best mommy in the world to my baby. I EBF him, even though that meant Epumping for almost a month while he was in the NICU and after, until he learned to latch on to the breast after being used to the bottle in the NICU. I sleep with him, I hold him all the time, I never let him cry. I never would want him to feel a moment of sadness or pain. So, why, why, why did I not look for the truth? I listened to everyone who told me "you have to do it!" I listened to my husband, to my mom and grandmother, to the pediatrician, to the visiting nurse who was assigned to come and check on my baby after we came home from the hospital. Deep inside, I now know my mama intuition was trying to tell me it wasn't right. I kept saying, "Are you sure we have to?" And EVERYWHERE, I was told, "YES!" But, I don't blame anyone who told me, "You have to!" I am not the sort of person who will normally accept stuff at face value. This is why it kills me even more that I just went ahead and let this happen to my baby.
December 19 came and we took him to his appointment. As we sat in the room waiting for the doctor, I remember the fear I felt, and I kept saying to my husband, "Are you sure he HAS to have this done? Are you SO HAPPY that you're circumsized?" and things like that. He kept telling me, "YES, stop it, calm down, this is going to happen no matter what." The doctor came in, and I left the room, but I made my husband stay. I paced up and down the hallway. I heard my son cry once, but that was all. Later my husband told me he only cried when they injected him with the pain killer or whatever it was. That does not make me feel any better, though.
When it was over I came back in. My baby's foreskin was there on the table and the doctor asked us if we wanted to keep it. Yes I wanted to keep it...on my baby. I can still picture it now in my head. I am fighting back tears as I am writing this...it seemed like so much skin. How could I have let this happen? I knew it was wrong, but still I was in denial. It wasn't until I found MDC that I began to realize the true horror of what I had stood by and allowed to happen to my precious, innocent baby boy. Way too late.
I looked at his pictures last night from when he was born and he was so perfect then. I have been dreaming at night that I am there in the doctor's office again, but this time I grab my baby and leave before it can happen to him. I only wish that were true. I hope with all my heart my son will forgive me for not protecting him and keeping him whole, because I am sorrier for it than I have ever been about anything else in the entire 31 years I have been on this planet.
Mommy is so, so sorry, Jackson. I know that is not enough, that nothing will ever bring back what was taken from you. I should have protected you better. But I hope you know that I love you more than anything in the world and I never would have let this happen if I had known then what I know now.