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#1 of 25 Old 08-14-2009, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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An acquaintance of mine who I gave tons of info about circ decided to do it anyway. She posted on her status on her blog that "K just got circumcised today!!! I'm so proud. He's such a little trooper!" Then proceeded to talk about how dad walked out because he couldn't bear to watch! It's on thing to circ. It's another to talk about how PROUD you are that your son just had part of he penis cut off for no good reason! It just makes me sick! I sooooo want to tell the dad that if he couldn't watch maybe thats a sign he shouldn't have let his son's genital get chopped up!!!!! i don't think I am going to say anything to them, just coming here for moral support because most ppl irl don't understand the whole circ issue and I have no one else to vent to.

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#2 of 25 Old 08-14-2009, 02:49 PM
 
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I'm so sorry That's such a hard thing to watch happen... but at least you tried!

Honestly, I think that someone saying that they're "proud" of their son's reaction to circumcision is really just a way of distancing themselves from the act itself. It's perhaps not as bad to think about if they can think of it as their son "being a man" or "a little trooper" about it. After all, if they don't think about it in that way then they have to think about the bloody wound and about the pain their new son went through because of their personal preferences.

So, I think it's more of a coping mechanism than a, "I'm so proud I circumcised my son" sort of thing. When viewed in that light... it seems to me to be less sadistic and more pitiful.

The dad not being able to watch shows, IMO, that he knew at some level (obviously not consciously) that what was happening (what he CHOSE to have happen) to his son was wrong. The mom distancing herself from the act itself and focusing on how "trooper-like" her son was with handling it makes me think that she knows on some level that it was wrong also.

I'm not sure that you should say anything to them anytime soon, but it might help you to view that blog post in the way I've discussed even if only for your own comfort in the short term. In the long term, keeping in mind that they both know at some level that it wasn't the right thing to do, you might be able to plant some more seeds or help the seeds you've already planted to germinate before they cut up any more sons.

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: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#3 of 25 Old 08-14-2009, 05:59 PM
 
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I'm so sorry. At least you tried. Sometimes the cultural conditioning is too strong.

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#4 of 25 Old 08-14-2009, 06:30 PM
 
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Maybe with the dad walking out of the circ room because he couldn't stand to see it happening.
maybe if he has another boy he won't allow it to happen again because he saw how bad it really was even at the beginning. that has happened before so we can hope maybe a better future for the rest of the boys if they have any more.

i agree that many times treats circumcision as a "needed surgical procedure' but in reality it's not a needed one and they know that but they make themselves believe it's a needed surgical procedure. it's like saying oh he's a trooper because he had to get ear tubes, get tonsils out, get a cast on his legs.
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#5 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 08:25 AM
 
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Ugg, sick. I'm sorry. I don't understand how people can know the facts and still choose to circ. I would probably lose a lot of respect for that person irl--not intentionally or to be a snob but just coz yuck! How could you act like mutilating your son is "oh so cute, I'm just so proud of our little boy" bleh, that's horrible.

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#6 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 10:49 AM
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At least you tried educating her. Good for you! Don't give up. I would definitely say something to the mom, probably in person. If you prefer, can you comment to her anonomously on her blog? Maybe, just maybe, she might change her position on circ. before having another son circed in the future.
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#7 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 11:52 AM
 
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Good for you for trying - I'm sure it hurts to know that they paid no heed to you, and sliced up their precious son anyway, but who knows, next time you may be successfull. Be proud of yourself !!
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#8 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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for you for trying. Some people just will never get it. I am going to have to deal with my sister on this one and it makes me so ill. I hope and pray every night that they only have girls

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#9 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 12:23 PM
 
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Proud? I'm sorry, that makes me ill.
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#10 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 12:29 PM
 
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This is so sickening...It reminds of the story (I think it was last year) about the mother who was so proud that the larger version of the Plstibell was too small for her son and they had to do it freehand:Puke

Victim of Birth Rape & Coerced ribboncesarean.gifUnnecesareanribboncesarean.gif What makes people think they can cut up someone else's genitals? nocirc.gif
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#11 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 02:48 PM
 
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Thanks for trying! Poor little guy.

Momma to DS (2/08) and #2 due 10/11.
 
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#12 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes it did nearly make me sick. I was flabbergasted. I knew she was going to do it, but I didn't think she thought it was like the cutest coolest thing! I just don't understand. It makes sense that it could be a coping mechanism, I never thought of it like that before. The only reason they could come up with for doing it is that they "prefer" a circumcised penis. They KNEW it had no medical benefit. That in and of itself seems kinda twisted. Like why look at your baby's penis and decide that you would "prefer" it look different? Its a baby. Why couldn't they let him decide for himself if that was his preference?

Student and aspiring midwife mama to Angel: and Iris. Expecting a new sometime near Halloween! I am a all the way!!!!!
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#13 of 25 Old 08-15-2009, 08:07 PM
 
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Thank you! I just went through the same thing. A good friend of mine (who's in the medical industry) just had a boy and we did have a good long discussion about it before she even knew it was a boy. Then her husband flippantly remarked about staying in the hospital until he was circ'ed.

I couldn't even go see them before it was done- I know myself too well and I guess I'm not ready to lose a friendship over it. But she does the scheduling BF and the CIO too.... oh we'll see how long we can go.

Anyway, I'm just glad to see someone else that understands! And if I do say anything, it will probably be along the lines of not wanting to change the poor boy's diaper because I'm uncomfortable with it. Just like she would be about changing my daughter's diaper if I had her circumcised!

I mean, it's just disturbing!

Doula and SAHM to Xander (4) and Lorelei (1.5). EC gave me courage to CD! Our children are intact. Our surprise 1st bio baby due Dec 2010!
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#14 of 25 Old 08-16-2009, 01:54 AM
 
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Isn't it sad that when a baby girl is held down and sexually mutilated she is a victim but when it happens to a boy he is a "trooper".
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#15 of 25 Old 08-16-2009, 03:32 AM
 
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that is aweful. Why does the attidude towards a penis reduction surgery resemble the same spirit of the mother who took a knife (she did this herself) to remove her sons entire penis because she wanted so badly to have him circumcised against the father of the boys wishes?

Somedays I feel like our country is getting worse. We're going backwards.
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#16 of 25 Old 08-16-2009, 03:42 AM
 
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Isn't it sad that when a baby girl is held down and sexually mutilated she is a victim but when it happens to a boy he is a "trooper".
Yes, the language is just another way of normalizing the act.

I just want to show these people videos of female "circumcision" and then be like, oh how do you feel about what you did to your son now? how can you be proud to do that to your infant son, but when it's a girl, it's horrendous? How can you believe that what's happening is justified just based on your baby's gender?

When I had my daughter, I didn't know any better, and I'm so glad that I had a girl because I probably would have just "gone with it" like I did before I started questioning vaccinations. I can understand people not knowing the truth and going thru with it because it's normalized in their culture.

Then I did a controversial speech on the topic of "circumcision" and equated FGM and MGM. After becoming informed, there's no way I could EVER choose to let that happen to my child! I don't understand how someone can know the facts and still perpetrate the act on their baby. It's very sad.

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#17 of 25 Old 08-16-2009, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by craft_media_hero View Post
Yes, the language is just another way of normalizing the act.

I just want to show these people videos of female "circumcision" and then be like, oh how do you feel about what you did to your son now? how can you be proud to do that to your infant son, but when it's a girl, it's horrendous? How can you believe that what's happening is justified just based on your baby's gender?

When I had my daughter, I didn't know any better, and I'm so glad that I had a girl because I probably would have just "gone with it" like I did before I started questioning vaccinations. I can understand people not knowing the truth and going thru with it because it's normalized in their culture.

Then I did a controversial speech on the topic of "circumcision" and equated FGM and MGM. After becoming informed, there's no way I could EVER choose to let that happen to my child! I don't understand how someone can know the facts and still perpetrate the act on their baby. It's very sad.
I don't get why people think MGM is better than FGM either. A common friend of myself and the lady mentioned in the OP said, "well at least they can still have an orgasm unlike female circumcision"

Student and aspiring midwife mama to Angel: and Iris. Expecting a new sometime near Halloween! I am a all the way!!!!!
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#18 of 25 Old 08-16-2009, 10:38 AM
 
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I don't get why people think MGM is better than FGM either. A common friend of myself and the lady mentioned in the OP said, "well at least they can still have an orgasm unlike female circumcision"
Many pro-FGM will argue that they do have orgasms and they're circ'd and "just fine". I've seen several infant female circumcisions and they really do only remove the prepuce aka female foreskin, leaving the clitoris intact. The ones I've seen is honestly very quick and the baby doesn't scream like she is being murdered. Their moms also use the "She is such a trooper" language.

It doesn't justify it. Its still wrong to take a knife near any child's genitals.

I will say this, there is a lot more involved in a MGM type 1 than there is FGM type 1. Not to derail this thread as this can be an entirely different subject on the merits of infant circumcision.
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#19 of 25 Old 08-16-2009, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes I am aware of those facts. I was just demonstrating the ignorance surrounding the subject. I agree that even if it did not affect sexual function it would still be horrendous to cut off part of any child's genitals without a medical reason.

Student and aspiring midwife mama to Angel: and Iris. Expecting a new sometime near Halloween! I am a all the way!!!!!
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#20 of 25 Old 08-17-2009, 02:01 PM
 
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Just back to the original "trooper" language....I was thinking today that that is a way of dehumanizing the baby or de-infantilizing him. In other words, instead of thinking -- I have a newborn baby (a thought that generally triggers protective instincts because newborns are totally helpless) -- by making the baby into a "trooper" -- i.e. a soldier -- we make the baby strong, someone who who doesn't need our protection, someone who is expected to take pain "like a man."

Very much in line with what trmpetplaya was saying -- it's a way of distancing themselves from the reality of circ because they didn't do it to their tiny little baby -- their "trooper," their "little man" experienced it instead. They had to make their baby into a non-baby for the circ.

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#21 of 25 Old 08-18-2009, 08:30 PM
 
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Proud? A "trooper"? He's a newborn. He was defenseless. He was stripped and restrained. He had no choice. People amaze me.
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#22 of 25 Old 08-18-2009, 09:49 PM
 
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You may want to recommend the book Real Boys (Pollack) to this family - it talks about how we raise boys emotionally in our culture, he's a Harvard psychologist and it's based on a ton of actual research.

The 'trooper' comment is what made me think of the book - he talks extensively about how we train little boys not to feel emotions other than happiness or anger, that sadness etc. are not 'boy' enough.

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#23 of 25 Old 08-18-2009, 11:20 PM
 
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you tried your best! That happened to me with a very good friend of mine and her boys are circ'ed I just looked at it like I did my part by informing her.

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#24 of 25 Old 08-19-2009, 12:57 AM
 
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you tried your best! That happened to me with a very good friend of mine and her boys are circ'ed I just looked at it like I did my part by informing her.
Exactly! You can lead a horse to water...
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#25 of 25 Old 08-19-2009, 02:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You may want to recommend the book Real Boys (Pollack) to this family - it talks about how we raise boys emotionally in our culture, he's a Harvard psychologist and it's based on a ton of actual research.

The 'trooper' comment is what made me think of the book - he talks extensively about how we train little boys not to feel emotions other than happiness or anger, that sadness etc. are not 'boy' enough.
Thank you for the book recommendation. I will definitely look into that!

Student and aspiring midwife mama to Angel: and Iris. Expecting a new sometime near Halloween! I am a all the way!!!!!
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