can baby be circumsized if mom says no? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-26-2009, 11:13 AM
 
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but we agreed to stop discussing until we talk with some of the doctors we see for my OB care. i'll let you guys know how it goes on friday...
my mind is made up.
Quick question...why on earth would an OB's opinion matter. They deal with female body parts. What do they know about intact male babies or adults?

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Old 08-26-2009, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quick question...why on earth would an OB's opinion matter. They deal with female body parts. What do they know about intact male babies or adults?
true that. but we are dealing with an irrational man right now, and he wants a "doctor's opinion" on whether it is "medically necessary." i have a feeling this is going to come out right in the end. i also googled "is circumcision medically necessary" and got three decent articles that cite the American Academy of Family Physicians and the American Academy of Pediatrics and explicitly state that it is "not medically necessary." i saved the links to my email address and when i get to the library (perhaps later today), i'm going to print the articles. they also state that "circumcision is painful for babies." the articles are good b/c they do acknowledge the "medical" reasons people sometimes do the procedures, and the only one that comes out slightly positive is for UTIs, and even in that case, it's only a 1 percent advantage -- thus not "medically necessary."

here are the links i'm going to use:

http://familydoctor.org/online/famdo...ctive/042.html

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/lab...cumcision.html

http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/c...cumcision.html

we're going to talk to the OBs b/c that's who (doctor-wise) that we are seeing these days... and i'm seeing a lot of them. frankly i'm more comfortable for some reason than asking a pediatrician at this point. we still need to find a good ped. our daughter's pediatricians seem a little... conventional.

still confident i can win this one.

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Old 08-26-2009, 04:41 PM
 
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As far as medically necessary....in Europe and developed countries on other continents, circumcision is the exception as opposed to the rule.

If he needs a doctor's opinion, he can call our pediatrician. I'll even give you his phone number. He's from Poland, and told me, (when I answered his question that no, I had no intentions of circumcising my son) that he was not circumcised, and most men in the WORLD aren't. It is, for the most part, completely unneccessary. A foreskin is not a birth defect.

Gee, guess doctors in other countries must be stupid.

In our state, most insurances are moving to classifying circumcision as plastic surgery, and no longer cover it. Might also want to check into that.

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Old 08-26-2009, 06:02 PM
 
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I've never actually heard of a boy asking that question, but if it comes up, it's not like saying "Your daddy is circumsized, you aren't." is a hard thing to say.
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Also, Ask him if he can picture his own Dad's penis and of he cares at all about whether his looks like it
Exactly.

When they WOULD be interested in that stuff (ages 5-9 or whatever), they're going to notice the obvious stuff...bigger arms, legs, etc.

When the child learns about circumcision, he'll be grossed out at the thought of his dad's penis.

This whole "circ so it looks like dad" is one of the biggest piles of bullhonkey ever.
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:52 PM
 
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Would it be possible for you to talk to the dr first and get a feel before you bring in your dh and the dr goes on and on about how great circ is and all the infections he/she has seen due to not circing?

It would really put you in a bad spot if that happened.

 
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:15 AM
 
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When I had DS, I had to sign refusal of consent for vit K and erythromycin ointment, and there was an "other" box on the page, so I added Hep B and circumcision to it. DS was with us (thankfully we were in a hospital that let you do everything in the room) the whole time, and DH was on board. GL!

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Old 08-27-2009, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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today i printed out the articles from respected medical associations (American Medical Association, American Academy of Pediatrics and American Academy of Family Physicians) for my husband, and he is starting to read through them. the information i found is medically sound, and not just opinions or emotions, which is what he wanted. if he wants to ask the doctors he sees with me tomorrow, it's fine with me. the articles state that circumcision is not medically necessary.

also today i saw my midwife, told her that i definitely do not want our son circumcised, and that my husband still needs some convincing in that regard. she said it's the OBs who perform the procedure at our hospital, and that i should make sure to not sign the permission for the procedure. also she marked my file "do not circumcise" and said that it will not be done. she said *i* am their patient. so, while it may be technically possible for my husband to go around me by taking our son elsewhere to be circumcised later, it will not be happening at our hospital after his birth.

nevertheless, i know from reading here that accidents do happen, so i will be vigilant about keeping him in the room with me the entire time, even for baths and anything else he needs.

but i'm resting a little easier now that my file is marked "do not circumcise." also i told my doula that i'm having this disagreement with my husband that i did not anticipate, and asked her to help me make sure of what forms i'm signing when they are shoving them in my face during labor. also i spoke with my mom, who will be around, taking care of our daughter, when i'm having the baby (and afterwards too for the duration of our hospital stay), told her about where i'm at, (i.e., i'm definitely not circumcising him, and DH is needing to get educated about how it is cosmetic, not a medically needed surgery), and asked her to help watch out for him (i.e. if for some reason i'm incapacitated, and the nurses take him out of the room, to watch to make sure he's not getting circumcised without my permission).

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Old 08-28-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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Here in Arizona it is not deemed medically necessary, and most insurance will not cover it. With my 1st ds now alost 16, he was a preemie, and the Dr refused to do it saying the trauma could severly harm him. I new nothing about it and thought thats just what you did to little boys. Then I heard that, and though NO WAY will I ever do that to my sons. We refused with next ds who is 8 now, and the hospital didnt make any kind of deal out of it. The nurse told us she sees more intact boys, then cut ones lately.

My husband is not intact, and his family is Jewish. I guess he had quite the party when they cut him. LOL They were not happy when they found out were not following that tradition.

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Old 09-12-2009, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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he was born very early tuesday morning. he is perfect and still intact!

made it through the hospital stay. had a number of nurses keep asking if we were going to circumcise... at one point i complained to someone about having to keep saying no. (shouldn't one "no" be enough?)

i kept DS in my room 24/7 and got up in the middle of the night to walk to the nursery when they needed overnight weighs, etc.

we survived!

ps: the ped. (who is foreskin friendly) pointed out that his is pretty loose. does anyone know what that means?

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Old 09-13-2009, 12:09 AM
 
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YAY! Congrats on your healthy, happy, whole baby boy!

No, one time should not even have to happen...it's a cosmetic procedure and my understanding is that it's unethical to solicit cosmetic surgery. I'm sorry you had to deal with that and I would follow up your complaint with a letter chastising them for the solicitation!

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Old 09-13-2009, 12:27 AM
 
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Congratulations on the arrival of your beautiful baby boy! I am so happy that he is here and happy, healthy and whole.

Ad for the "pretty loose" comment, it could be that his foreskin is longer than "average" what ever that means. Some babies have longer fingers, some shorter, some have shorter eye lashes, some longer. Rest assured, your baby has the right foreskin for his penis and the right penis for his body!

I just love this video for it's technical yet understandable presentation:
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...o/prepuce.html

This might be perfect for your dh if he likes scientific stuff.

Again, congtatulation! And if you want to post a link to a picture of this little angel, we won't complain one bit!

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ElliesMomma View Post
he was born very early tuesday morning. he is perfect and still intact!
YAAYYY!!!

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made it through the hospital stay. had a number of nurses keep asking if we were going to circumcise... at one point i complained to someone about having to keep saying no. (shouldn't one "no" be enough?)
Yes. One "no" should be enough. It's awful the way they'll hassle new moms about stuff...and this one is really bad.

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YAY! Congrats on your healthy, happy, whole baby boy!

No, one time should not even have to happen...it's a cosmetic procedure and my understanding is that it's unethical to solicit cosmetic surgery. I'm sorry you had to deal with that and I would follow up your complaint with a letter chastising them for the solicitation!
I agree. Repeatedly soliciting cosmetic surgery is really disgusting.

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Old 09-13-2009, 01:26 AM
 
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If you have the energy for it, please also send a letter of complaint to the state medical board on the harassment of solicitation of cosmetic surgery.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:52 AM
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Congratulations on your baby!

I hope the doctor didn't try to retract him to find out that he's loose (retraction is a big no-no). Have you read the Warning for Parents of Intact Spns thread yet? If not, I very much recommend reading it.

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Old 09-13-2009, 11:11 AM
 
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: Congrats!
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Old 09-13-2009, 04:17 PM
 
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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no, the ped. did not try to retract him. in fact, she warned me that his penis does *not* need to be retracted until it loosens on its own. i have read the warnings for parents of intact sons, and am choosing a ped. with that advisement. i think she was just pointing it out to me. she said most foreskins are "tighter." i guess my question to this board was whether having "loose foreskin" bodes well for his future ability to retract (on his own of course) versus having a "tight foreskin" that doesn't retract well for a long time (just my speculation -- don't really have a clue).

as a related sidenote, my own brother (third brother -- all three were left intact at birth), had to be circumcised at age 16, after a childhood of repeated infections. turns out (i learned in conversations with my mother re: not circumcising), the ped. they had way back then retracted him at age 6 months. we now know why he got the infections. the doctor caused it.

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Old 09-14-2009, 12:33 AM
 
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no, the ped. did not try to retract him. in fact, she warned me that his penis does *not* need to be retracted until it loosens on its own. i have read the warnings for parents of intact sons, and am choosing a ped. with that advisement. i think she was just pointing it out to me. she said most foreskins are "tighter." i guess my question to this board was whether having "loose foreskin" bodes well for his future ability to retract (on his own of course) versus having a "tight foreskin" that doesn't retract well for a long time (just my speculation -- don't really have a clue).

as a related sidenote, my own brother (third brother -- all three were left intact at birth), had to be circumcised at age 16, after a childhood of repeated infections. turns out (i learned in conversations with my mother re: not circumcising), the ped. they had way back then retracted him at age 6 months. we now know why he got the infections. the doctor caused it.
Generally, it doesn't matter tight or lose as an infant/child. Remember it might not fully retract until his teen years so you may never see it. In addition to simply growing and changing the loosening process is help along by 'exploration' as a child and as he approaches his teen years well... um.. will gradually stretch it.
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:23 AM
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and he said "what will you tell him when he gets a little older and wonders why he doesn't look like his dad" (DH is circed).
What the hell would he be showing his son his penis for? Will hell freeze over if the boy has a different eye or hair color? Kids wonder for a few seconds, then go back to playing.

Also, he's your husband, so legally he has equal right to sign the form (a hospital is violating law by treating a mother with preference over a legal father as both are equal in law, at least on paper in law books). If you're in a state where both must sign, you're in luck. If you're in a state where only one must, you need to keep talking to your husband.

Point out the child will look different in other ways he can see. Tell him he saw his dad have different hair color or length, different eye color, wearing different clothing, and he didn't grow up thinking there was something wrong. So why will a child feel bad that a covered-up body part looks different? Is it going to be a big deal if your husband's pubic hair color is one color and your son, as a teen, has another? No. And promise him that, if your son decides, as a teen, that he "wants to look like dad" in this way, then you'll support a circumcision then.
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:32 AM
 
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Actually most hospitals only the mother has the legal right to sign the form the reason for this is they know 100% for sure the child is hers while even if the mom is married they dont know this without genetic testing. This way they are covered if the mom says that he shouldnt have been allowed to consent because he isnt the father. I actually think the mother should have more rights than the father in certain cases. Depending on situation and other factors.

With the OP's hospital this was the case
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also today i saw my midwife, told her that i definitely do not want our son circumcised, and that my husband still needs some convincing in that regard. she said it's the OBs who perform the procedure at our hospital, and that i should make sure to not sign the permission for the procedure. also she marked my file "do not circumcise" and said that it will not be done. she said *i* am their patient. so, while it may be technically possible for my husband to go around me by taking our son elsewhere to be circumcised later, it will not be happening at our hospital after his birth.
Since her ds is here and intact though it is a moot point.

 
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