now, to my question: to put my own mind at ease (our due date is less than a month away), will it be enough that i (the mom) declines/refuses the circ.? i recall being asked about it when i delivered our daughter. if i sign a refusal, will that be the end of it, or do i need to live in eternal vigilance for the duration of our hospital stay -- and fear that they will pester my husband to do it too, and that somehow it could be done while i'm sleeping or something?
I personally would try to approach the issue with your DH again and do whatever you can (use the resources in the stickies here) to make sure he is on the same page with you about not circ'ing. I would also keep baby in the room with me as much as possible (but I would do this anyway), and if he did have to go to the nursery, I have read some good ideas on here about putting "do not circumcise" or something to that effect on his bassinet.
I never had to sign a refusal form just as a general FYI. They only had consent forms, which is why putting notification on his bassinet may be a good idea. I wasn't an intactivist when my son was born so I didn't, but had I known all I do now, I definitely would have.
HTH and GL!
in any case, it is silly to think of my husband worrying that his son's penis doesn't have the head permanently exposed. i think it is a case of old habits die hard, *and* probably a bit of defensiveness (i.e., *my penis* is fine the way it is, are you saying that there is something wrong with being cir'd?) -- in which case, (not that this would ever be verbalized by him), this is so not about his penis. it's about our son-to-be's personal autonomy over his own anatomy and specifically making a choice to not surgically alter him on day two of his life. his penis will be perfect the way it is when he is born, thank you very much, are you saying there is something wrong with him being the way God created him, or the way my body produced him?
ugh, just trying to stay strong. didn't really expect this challenge. on the other hand, trying not to obsess too much over it, b/c i don't want to make the prelude worse than it is. i do believe i can "win" this one. heck, i'm willing to "give him" naming rights of this child if he wants to "win" something. plus, i've been "giving in" on other little things around the house, so it doesn't become a thing where "i always have to be right."
There are many things you can do to prevent it in hospital. Once you leave however your dh can take him to any ped and have it done with his siggy only. So if you think that is a possibility you need to make sure your dh takes him no where until he is at least a year.
Only seen 2-3 stories where the father has tried to do this with the baby after he is home but it did happen and had the mom's not found out about it before hand their ds would have came home after an outing with dad to let mom rest cut.
I think you need to sit down with your dh talk to him about this and let him know that circing is not happening and find out what he knows about the intact penis and about his 2 grown sons.
SAHMlovin' fan to DD 10/00 & DS 10/04 If your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumCirc, a personal choice, Your sons11/986/99anti-tobaccoThyroid cancer survivor. With & & (Boxer) wishing 4 &
i think this can be a tricky situation for a lot of mothers opposed to circ., whose own husbands *are* circ'd. it's the whole thing of deciding something different for your own child, than your husband's parents decided for him... and to do it without "judging" those other people's choices.
i can also say to my husband, that he got to have two of his sons cir'd... but not this one!
rest assured, ladies, that i am NOT going to cave in and let this happen to my baby... the only way it would happen would be totally against my will, i will not sign off on the procedure, the hospital would have to be totally liable for damages if they went ahead and did it. and i will reiterate no circ. to my husband when the topic comes up again, and/or when the baby is born. (in my husband's case, a lot of "power" shifts to the mom who just gave birth. he has said so much as i "am giving birth to him, i can name the baby," even though he has some preferences on that, too.)
in other words, i WILL win this... i'm just trying to minimize the cost of victory. it would be nice to eventually get him on board with feeling good about sparing our son this nasty procedure.
thanks for your thoughts!
I have had to explain circumcision to them(very simply) because my stepsis had a baby in May who she got circed . They asked if we did that to them, or if we were going to do that to them and we explained no we did not/will not and they said good.
Its strange, it seems even at a young age that they know cutting a penis is wrong. And as far as your dh's comment about an adult not wanting to go through a circ, tell him if his baby could say the word no, he would not want to go through a circ either. But all a baby can do is scream and unfortunately for the baby, that scream more times than not, falls on deaf ears.
Good luck with the birth of your new ds and good for you for protecting him
It's not just circ issue when allowing your baby to be in the nursery; it's also making sure no one (especially doctors) retracts your baby foreskin (make sure to read as Worning for Parents of Intact Sons thread), it's also that a nursery is REALLY a bad stressful place for the baby to be. And yes, there can be always mistakes, babies whose parents refused to circ DO get circ'd by mistake (it's rare but it is possible).
Have your research vaccines yet? If no, I highly advise to do so (another reason to watch for vaccines that you have declined)
I just wouldn't let him out of my sight. I DOES happen, although hopefully it's rare.
When I had my son, a doctor tried to come and take him in the middle of the night. I was *exhausted* and passed out. He asked my MOM if I wanted him circ'ed. She of course said no, but I do wonder what would have happened if she said yes. Everyone there thought I was very young (like 16...I was actually 21) and in that case, he might have made the mistake of getting my mom to consent. Of course it would have been completely illegal, but they kept asking if I had my parent's permission for other crap so I'm sure it could have happened.
It sounds like you are on the right track with your DH. Explain to him that it's NOT that painful in adults and it IS very painful in babies and babies may not consciously remember it but their bodies remember it. At least adults get pain relief, know what's going on, and don't have to have feces and urine on an open wound. Aside from that, there are SO many complications from circ than can last a lifetime. And looking like dad is NOT important. My kid is 4 and hasn't even noticed. When he does, I'll tell it like it is. Most kids are horrified that anyone would cut off that part. I don't think it will be an issue.
You will need to check with your hospital. Writing DO NOT CIRCUMCISE) on paperwork shoved under your nose during labor would be a good start and also, never let the baby out of your sight.
I am not sure how legally binding it is, but much better than nothing I really think your husband will come around to the idea of having an intact baby.
Regarding the "looking like Daddy" issue, consider other types of cosmetic surgery. If Dad had a chin implant or a nose job, would he request the same for his newborn son? If Mom had breast implants, would she request the same for her newborn daughter? There are a lot of moral problems with cosmetic surgery for infants!
Regarding hospital protocol, I suggest packing a permanent black pen in your hospital bag so that you can write "NO CIRCUMCISION" or "DO NOT TOUCH BABY'S PENIS" on the baby's hospital bracelet & name tag in the crib. You can write, "NO CIRCUMCISION" on your hospital registration form, too, and sign your name. You can tell the admitting nurse to write "NO CIRCUMCISION" on your admissions papers. You get the idea.
My better answer if DH had asked that question of me would have been, "So when we have a DD and her breasts don't look exactly like mine you're going to pay for the boob job to 'fix' that, too?"
Apparently it was done automatically back then...my mom was rather horrified. And, to top it off he came home with an infected penis and my mom had to give him antibiotics.
As to not give him a complex my parents never said anything. But, through all of those years, my brother never knew that our dad was intact! I don't think that he knows still!
And, after all of this--my mom only told me about my dad and 'the story' of my brother's circ because I announced to her that we were keeping our DS whole. She looked at me and said she was relieved...then went to tell me the story. And, then told me that she wouldn't have told me it except for Dad had passed on. : Which irked me a bit, because my older brother might have thought twice about it when he had boys.
If they're going to notice a difference they notice the hair generally. It's not like my daughters have to look exactly like me (I don't see my girls getting upset that I have giant boobs, hair down there and i my armpits). And, when he tells you that your DS would have issues with looking the same, in reality it's him having issues with dealing that DS would have something he didn't have. Anyhow, if you do some research, share it with DH, and most definitely the only logical thing that will come out of it is that he will be most definitely be supportive of keeping him intact.
Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!
Maybe he would be more understanding to not circ if he knew more facts about it?
My first was circed when he wasn't supposed to be but that is because I was in active labor when they had me sign papers and they told me that they were taking Ds to get a bath when in fact they took him to get cut so one thing is to NOT sign anything what so ever until you are out of laboring and delivery! this bean will not be going anywhere with out me right there or my STBDH right there!
Glenn 11*09 Joe 4*04 Me & Hubby
now, as for the hospital and delivering OBs, etc. -- i am going to start by talking with the midwife i am scheduled to see for my appointment on friday and see what the protocol is at our hospital, and ask her advice on what i need to do to make sure my son is not circumcised. depending on what i learn from that conversation, i may also go into the hospital's maternity unit and ask the same question. i think that i will write "no circumcision" on every form i sign. i am considering sending a registered letter to the hospital and OB group stating that my son should not be circumcised. and from what i've learned, it is possible to request that every single thing done to the newborn (from bath to heel prick) be done in our own room, that he needn't be taken away at all for any reason, and i think i will request that as well.
it's setting up for a not very relaxing time, those first 24 hours after birth, to have to be eternally vigilant about keeping watch over my son. my three year old daughter will be with us as well -- and i can almost see not getting any sleep myself in order to 1) protect him and 2) watch over her. i'm really going to need my husband's support in this! the part of protecting our son from circumcision.
thanks for all of the information, everybody! although i don't feel like i'm going to rest any easier tonight, at least i guess i'm grateful that i got an "early wake up call" on this matter so that i can take the steps i need to make sure he is protected.
Have a great birth!
Keep in mind that if your husband takes your child to any ped visits and you aren't there, as the child's parent, he does have the authority to sign for a circumcision.
I also really don't get the "you don't want to get circ'd later" thing. That makes no sense to me at all. Why on earth would anyone think it's better to do that when 1) the person being circ'd has absolutely no understanding of what's causing all that pain, and 2) the foreskin is still fused to the glans? There's obviously no way for me to know for sure (maybe if they did brain scans during circs?), but I'd think the pain for a newborn would be considerably worse, even aside from the anesthesia issue.
Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) , Emma (5/03) , Evan (7/05) , & Jenna (6/09)
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing Aaron Ambrose (11/07)
(maybe if they did brain scans during circs?), but I'd think the pain for a newborn would be considerably worse, even aside from the anesthesia issue.
and at least half of this:
DH and i discussed/argued about this a little today. it was not a pleasant conversation. i told him that i am dead set against it, and will not sign the consent for it. i tried to explain some of my reasons... but he wants to talk to a *doctor* and has *no respect* for any of my research b/c it comes from "the internet". (he is 59 and not exactly internet savvy... plus he has had two sons -- now adults -- from his previous marriage... whatever choices he/his ex wife made was 30 year ago...) i told him let's ask the doctor(s) if it is "medically necessary" for our newborn to be circumcised. he said however i want to word it is fine. i'm pretty confident that the answer is going to be that it is not "medically necessary" and if for some reason one of the doctors he asks comes back with various reasoning that could be construed as endorsement for circumcision, i think i know enough to question the doctor intelligently on the spot re: why it is *necessary* to circumcise them as *newborns* versus later in life, if/when any "trouble" would arise.
to me, the fact that they can't give general anaestesia (sp) to babies and use a "topical" for this major (gruesome) procedure is compelling. and especially as the foreskin is so attached in a newborn, versus retractable in an older child/adult -- that would be the time to cut it, if/when a "problem" arised, versus pre-emptively-- when doing so only because of the convenience that newborn babies can't talk and "they cry about everything anyway" (which is what my husband actually rationalized tonight).
but i think i made some progress in so far as my husband said that since i'm the mother, what i say goes... and of course he was not happy about this, and feels that his viewpoint is not respected, and asked why i even bring it up when my mind is already made up.
but we agreed to stop discussing until we talk with some of the doctors we see for my OB care. i'll let you guys know how it goes on friday...
thanks again for your support and suggestions. he did not see the youtube video, and i didn't either frankly. my husband said he doesn't want to see or read stuff off the internet, as "obviously they are presenting the worst case scenarios" -- and as for me, i've looked at some pictures and it was disturbing enough for me. i started to look at a video and had to click it off for myself. i'm not the kind of person who needs reminding that it is gruesome. and unnecessary.
my mind is made up.
Mom & RN
Pardon the typos - CWOK (cat walking on keyboard)