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#1 of 66 Old 12-14-2009, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am due with my third baby in late January. I dont know if its a boy or a girl. I have two girls already. I am already considering if its a boy and the question of whether to circumcise or not. I am a RN and about a month or two ago i assisted a pediatrician with a circ on a baby. Since I had never done that before I took that as possibly a sign that I should be getting prepared for this event. This particular baby seemed to do fine under the circumstances. My job was to sooth him with sugar water on a paci and he seemed to sleep most of the time, with the exception of a couple squeeks.

Since I have been researching and after a talk with my pediatrician recently, he said it is now considered a "cosmetic procedure" and he seemed to not be in support of it, although he will perform it. From all I've heard, this seems to be the consensus.

My husband is adamant(sp?) about about having it done, if it is a boy. He states many reasons, but probably most importantly because he wants his boy to look like him and the boy to know he looks like Daddy. Other reasons are biblical ones and also he states higher risk for infection, which I know isn't true.

We even got in a fight last night where he started swearing when i told him I was the one who had to consent to it, and I wouldn't. THat really set him off, because he feels like he has no control and no say over his own children. I can imagine how that sucks.

I have been crying when i think about it. If it were only up to me, I would not get it done for sure.

I feel like my choice is 1) Refuse to get it done and risk further negative feelings between my husband and me. I have heard this can risk marriages. I dont want that. or 2)Get it done, cry and cry and try to pretend it never happened and make myself think it is ok.

Husband says it is temporary- the pain, the healing.

I have gut feelings about my children and I always follow them, but I dont want to alienate and lose my husband. I guess this has a lot to do with our relationship and the fact that he feels left out and feels like he doesn't have any control with me. I do almost all the child rearing and decision making re: the children. I am the one who does all the research.

Bottom line, its like a gamble. Lose my husband-I dont know if literally (that wouldn't work for the benefit of the child!!!!!!), but at least more of his respect for me, or put my child under the knife for no good reason- just to please my husband. Again, I dont even know if it is a boy, but there is a 50/50 chance.

Long story, I could go on and on.

Do any of you have any practical advice for me.

Is there anyone on this site who has circumcised their son in the same situation and everything turned out ok???

Thanks.

Super mom to a 5 1/2 year old girl, almost 4 yr old girl, and 2 year old boy.

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#2 of 66 Old 12-14-2009, 11:40 PM
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MLtxCwdMv0

Take time to watch a few Youtube videos on the procedure. It isn't always as calm an experience as you witnessed. Research shows quiet babies sometimes go into shock from the pain. Try not to fight with your husband over it...approach it more as a learning experience for both of you. Agree to look into it with him and consider both sides.

I seriously doubt that you or he will be willing to cut your baby after thoroughly examining both sides.

Loving mother, Devoted Wife
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#3 of 66 Old 12-14-2009, 11:47 PM
 
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also watch "cut" the film at www.cutthefilm.com
that certainly changed my mind

Legal Mama to TWO homebirthed, unschooled, unvaxed, cloth diapered, mei tei loving, still breastfeeding baby girl 1/14/07 and an intact 8 pound 10 ouncer baby boy 4/5/10.
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#4 of 66 Old 12-14-2009, 11:51 PM
 
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If your husband is that serious about wanting it done, then I think he needs to do some more research and get all the facts. Once you both have done your research you can come together and make an informed decision.

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#5 of 66 Old 12-14-2009, 11:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mymary View Post
Husband says it is temporary- the pain, the healing.
As my husband and I are on the same side on this subject I don't have a lot of advice in that arena-- but I wanted to address the above.

Being circumsised is not just a question of temporary pain; even in circumstances where there are not complications.

I don't want to get in to to many tmi details, but the foreskin *does* serve a purpose. foreskins are fun! Being circed decreases sexual feeling and function. I think I read somewhere that's why they were started, to discourage self pleasuring. Anyways-- being circed shortchanges your son for a lifetime-- it's not just a temporary decison. As mama's, don't we want our kiddos to have the best of everything (even if it means that it's better than what we have now?)

Texmati-- Knitter, Hindu, vegetarian, WOHM. Wife to superdadsuperhero.gif and mom to DS babyf.gif24 months, and DD boc.gif 8 months! .

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#6 of 66 Old 12-14-2009, 11:57 PM
 
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Your dh is a grown man he will get over it. Your ds depends on you to protect him from harm and that is what would be happening. He would loose a valuable part of his anatomy just so your dh wouldnt pout? My dh wanted it done but ds is intact and dh is over it now for the most part.

Woman are given the opportunity to feel sex as it should be men deserve the same opportunity.

About the boy looking like the dad ask your dh how often he compared his penis to his dad's. I would bet he didnt see him much if any.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#7 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 12:25 AM
 
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Just because the baby during the circ you watched seemed to be sleeping doesn't mean he wasn't in pain.

The fact that he slept through it tells me that he was most likely in shock. When a baby is in pain they go to sleep.

From Dr. Sears:http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t101500.asp#T101504

Quote:
The myth that newborns do not feel pain came from the observation that newborns sometimes withdraw into a deep sleep toward the end of the operation. This does not mean that they do not feel pain. Falling into a deep sleep is a retreat mechanism, a withdrawal reaction as a consequence of overwhelming pain. Not only does circumcision cause pain in the penis, the rest of the newborn's overall physiology is upset. During unanesthetized circumcision, stress hormones rise, the heart rate speeds, and valuable blood oxygen diminishes.

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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#8 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 01:14 AM
 
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Before you make your decision, I hope that you will read this thread. http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1158645

This is by a mother who was in a similar situation to the one you are in. Please remember that this is real surgery and that there is a real potential for complications.

Single mom to the Crunchy Froglets, Keith and Carlin, twin boys born 1/30/09. Frozen for 10 years, now unleashed on the world.
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#9 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 02:01 AM
 
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What if you take yourselves out of the equation and let your son decide when he grows up? It is, after all, his genitalia.
I never understood why some fathers are adament about surgically reducing the size of their infant son's penis.
And he won't look exactly like dad anyway because he's half you
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#10 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 02:29 AM
 
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about "looking like Daddy"

An adult penis will always look different. And they're probably not going to be comparing genitalia once the son is older. I have two sons: one cut, the other intact. They are 6 & 3. They regularly take baths together and have never asked me why their penises are different. I don't know if they've even noticed. To them, a penis is a penis, and they chalk up any differences to them being individuals (just like one has blond hair, the other brown).
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#11 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 03:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BugMacGee View Post
And he won't look exactly like dad anyway because he's half you
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanMom View Post
about "looking like Daddy"

An adult penis will always look different. And they're probably not going to be comparing genitalia once the son is older.
Pointing out the above obvious facts to the dad will not help. Because it isn't really about how the son's penis ends up looking. It's about the dad KNOWING that the son IS circumcised, even if he never once even changes a diaper or for any other reason ever sees the son's penis or the son never ever sees the father's penis. It is the dad's desperate attempt to justify his own circumcision by having it done to his son. Circumcising the son "proves" that circumcision is right and good and therefore that Dad's penis is good. Not circumcising the boy makes Dad think there could maybe be something wrong with circumcision - that he could be missing something. (and sadly, he is. But who would want to face that knowledge head-on?)
In other words, it is all about the man's issues. And his issues are his problem. You can't go around hurting your kids just to make yourself feel good about what was done to you in the past.

As for the baloney about feeling left out of all the decisions on child care, and just wanting this "one" thing to be "theirs"? Absolute BS and you should call them on it. First of all, if the wife is doing all the research, then why isn't the husband? Is anything stopping him from researching child care issues? No, he is simply letting his wife do all the work. Secondly, once presented with the research, most guys agree that their wife's decisions are right anyway (on the breastfeeding, cosleeping, etc..) So if they are perfectly happy to sit back and let the wife do all the research, and happy to go along with her well-researched decisions, then why all of a sudden the "oh poor me, I never get to have any say in raising our children..." card? Because it is emotional blackmail, that is why, just a ploy to try to get the wife to let him take a knife to a baby's penis (because he feels a primal compulsion to do this in order to protect his own ego.) If you don't believe me that the "You get to make all the decisions, all I want is this one little thing" argument is baloney, then try turning it around on him. Say, "okay, fine. From here on out you make every single decision there is. It is all up to you. I will be the perfectly submissive wife. You are the husband, you are the king. The kids will be fed what and how and when you decide, they'll get the vaccinations you feel are appropriate, they'll sleep where and on what schedule you decide, you decide if they get pacifiers or not, go in a sling or a stroller, where they go to school, how we will discipline, whether they go to daycare or have a stay at home parent or nanny, and so on. You can make EVERY decision in their whole entire childhood and I will go along with it. EXCEPT we leave the foreskin alone." Think any guys will take their wives up on the offer? I think not, because the real point of the argument is not that they want more clout on all the other decisions, it is because they just want to get the kid circumcised.
"Who, me, issues? No, I don't have any issues! I just really, really need to cut off part of my son's penis! Now just let me, already!"

Good luck, op!

Jen
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#12 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 05:12 AM
 
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Make it less about you and DH and more about your son. Whose body is it? Your son's. Whose penis is it? Your son's. Who is the one who will be using the penis for the rest of his life? Your son. Who should get to decide what it looks like and how it functions? Your son.

If you make it about YOUR SON and HIS BODY and HIS DECISION, rather than a battle of who is right and who is wrong, it'll likely go over better, because that way your hubby won't feel like you don't support him or like his body as it is.
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#13 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 05:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mymary View Post

Do any of you have any practical advice for me.
I'm so sorry you are going through this difficult time with your husband over all of this. It sounds stressful, especially for a pregnant mama.
Simply speaking, it shouldn't be a matter of if you or your husband "win" or "lose" this argument. If the child, the owner of the penis, doesn't get a choice, that child is the one who loses. So leaving him intact and allowing him the choice of cosmetic surgery when he's old enough if he wants it (chances are high he will not) is the only outcome that will allow anyone to win.
It's highly possible your husband feels insecure or has some psychological issues with his own circ or any possibility of his son looking different than him. My husband is circed but our son is not. It's NEVER been an issue. For starters, they don't sit around comparing genitals. And as others have said, there is the whole pubic hair and size issue that makes them different anyway. How will your dh feel if your son is born with only one testicle? Or different hair color? Please read this link (it's for you to read, not your dh) and maybe it will help you understand your dh's insecurity:
http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

You asked:
Quote:
Is there anyone on this site who has circumcised their son in the same situation and everything turned out ok???
What I can say is we have pages and pages of moms who did circ their sons but later regretted it. Please read this thread for more info:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=112410


If your nursing school was anything like mine, it never taught the value and biological function of the foreskin. But it does have a legitimate function and there is importance in keeping it.
I don't think we are allowed to link to anything about it (due to the sexual nature of it), but you can google "foreskin function".

I truly don't think you refusing to circ your son will destroy your marriage. Most men just need some time to digest the idea of their son being intact and different from them (and to digest what was done to their own body). Many men even become intactivist after having an intact son. Somewhere on here is a thread where some mamas talk about their partners feelings and disagreements. A few mamas said their partners were not happy with leaving the baby intact but it didn't cause a marital strain and certainly not a divorce. But most dads become very accepting and it becomes a moot point.

And when your dh says the pain of circ is temporary, he's only partially correct. If everything goes smoothly, chances are high he'll be healed with 7 - 10 days. But often circs get botched and require additional surgery, or blood transfusions. Sometimes meatal stenosis occurs. Sometimes boys grown into men with painful erections due to a bad circ. And then there could be psychological stress that some men have over their circs. Maybe your son will have some of these issues, maybe he won't. But is it worth it to take that chance over a non-medically necessary procedure?

Please don't circumcise your son.

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#14 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 06:30 AM
 
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The way I figure, intact is the "default" state. HE needs to do research on why a boy should be circumcised. Read the studies, learn about the procedure. 80-90% of boys worldwide are NOT circ'd. About 50% in most of the US. The first generation of dads to get their baby boys cut didn't worry about their sons "matching" penises. There is a pretty good chance that your husband's father or grandfather was intact.
I understand a man feeling a lack of control in his family life, but the more he learns about circ' the more he will hopefully realize that this is an area he needs to let his SON control!

Mom of 4 aspiring midwife "Friend"ly seeker
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#15 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 08:26 AM
 
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You have gotten a lot of good replies, and I won't simply repeat them. But I will add a few thoughts. First, here is something that you and he can read:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...yStatement.pdf

It has references, so can be a good starting point for more discussion.

Second, he is using fear and irrational arguments. Keep trying to move back to rational decision making, rather than fear based arguments.

And you will be more successful at moving the discussion form fear based arguments to informed decision making by keeping that full set of issues on the table. When people are afraid, they focus on only one issue and let that overwhelm them.

Instead, make sure that all the advantages and disadvantages of either choice get included in the discussion. Sometime writing it down on paper is helpful. For instance:

Circumcise him:

Advantages:

He will be amputated like his dad.

He will have some very small decrease in UTIs, though even if he were intact, his chance of UTIs would be well below that of girls.

If his condom breaks, or he chooses to use unsafe sexual practices, he will have to have more encounters with HIV positive females in order to contract HIV.

Disadvantages:

Intense pain during the procedure, with some research suggesting that the pain could have long lasting effects. At a minimum, it seems well documented to interfere with breast feeding, bonding, and pain thresholds in his early years.

Risk of infection.

Risk of complications. There are many, and some cannot be known until he reaches puberty or later.

You will be taking away his options. While he can always be circumcised when he is older, he cannot save his foreskin and reattach it later if he finds that is his preference. And the results are likely to be more predictable and risk of complications much less if he has himself circumcised when he is an adult.

Dramatic loss of sexual function. He simply will not have a foreskin to move up and down on his shaft. This makes a huge difference in comfort and how one has to go about masturbating and having intercourse. With a foreskin, lubricant is not needed.

Dramatic loss of sexual feelings. Your husband cannot know this. He may well not be able to accept it. He simply does not have the equipment to understand. The foreskin itself has nerves that respond to its movement. these nerves add sensations different than waht you husband can feel. And they are the major sexual sensory input for a man. If you don't have them, you can't feel them.

Violation of your son's human rights. There is widely held acceptance of this, legally and philosophically.

As far as your husband's points, I cannot fit them into this as clear advantages of disadvantages. Your son won't look like your husband in many ways. Is that good or bad? And your son may find that many of his peers are intact, so that cood go either way. And by the time he is ready for sex, he may be glad he has his foreskin. Again, you can argue either way.

The key is not to focus on just one issue, but understand the tradeoffs. What are you "buying" for the pain caused? Do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? All of them?

Regards
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#16 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 10:38 AM
 
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Regarding his own most "important" reason to circ. Looking like his father.

I'd have to ask him how often he has spent time comparing his penis with his father's.
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#17 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 11:48 AM
 
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My understanding is that we are allowed to discuss/link to the sexual function of the foreskin, so long as we're not engaging in graphic sexual discussion. After all, it would be almost impossible to discuss the Case Against Circumcision without discussing the penis' sexual function!

This link is one of my favorites for explaining what the foreskin is and what it does:

http://research.cirp.org

It's based on the research of several pathologists into the foreskin's structures and functions that's been published in the British Journal of Urology.

The risks of circumcision go far beyond infection, bleeding, adhesions, meatal stenosis, etc. -- the 100% complication of circumcision is the loss of the foreskin and all of its specialized sensory structures.

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#18 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 12:39 PM
 
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I can assure you that boys do NOT care if Dad is circumcised and they are not. My twin sons are intact, and they learned about circumcision when they were 8 years old - during a church sermon, of all places. They asked what the word meant, and we explained in simple, non-emotional terms. One said "Ouch! Why would anyone want to do that?" I went on to explain that most men don't choose it for themselves, but their parents have it done when they are babies. I told them that their sitter's baby was circumcised, and the felt horrible for hom.

Finally we explained that their Dad was cicumcised when he was a baby. One of our sons said "Poor Dad! He's missing the best part!" The other said "I just thought Dad always kept his foreksin pulled back". It never occured to either one of them that his foreskin had been cut off - why would it, if you've never heard of that before? Since my boys could retract their foreskins, they could make theirs look like Dad's.

Once they learned about circumcision, they had NO desire to get circumcised themselves, to "match" their Dad. The don't match in eye color, hair color, or shape of nose or ears (they look like me). He has a mustache; they don't. None of these differences are troublesome in any way - why should they worry about "matching" a body part that no one ever sees? We aren't prudes at our house, but we don't spend a lot of time naked either.

Finally, my DH and his brother (both circumcised) were in their 40s before they learned that their own Dad had been intact (their Mom told us). They had no idea. Obviously "matching Dad" is not a big deal AT ALL to children - as stated so well in a previous post, "matching" is only important to the Dad who is threatened by the idea of his son having something he doesn't have.

Best wishes to you, MyMary - I do not envy you this conflict in your marriage. I agree with the poster who said that baby boys come with a foreskin as standard equipment - the person who wants to authorize an operation on a normal, healthy infant is the one who needs to come up ith a valid *medical* justification, sufficient to outweigh the risks and harms of the surgery. Trust me, he won't be able to do it.

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#19 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 12:53 PM
 
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Here's another tool - it's a list of questions that should be asked before any operation.

http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu.../questions.cfm

Since circumcision is often regarded as "just a snip", or a minor procedure, just highlighting the fact that it is sugery might help change your DH's mond. If not, at least you will have the opportunity to have a doctor (or two, if you take the advice of getting a second opinion) explain that the foreskin is normal, natural, and not a condition that needs immediate treatment.

If you can find a doctor in advance that is opposed to circumcision, so much the better! Though any doctor worth his/her credientials should answer all of those questions truthfully.

If the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

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#20 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 12:58 PM
 
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As the intact son of a circumcised man, I can say that, the few times I saw his penis as a child, I noticed the differences having to do with age--ie size and hair--much more than his glans being exposed and mine not. I do remembering noticing the difference but I figured it was part of the "older penis=different penis" trend I had noticed. I thought for awhile that my foreskin might disapear as I got older, and remember being relieved when I learned more about circumcision and realized that I was gonna get to hang onto it, after all.
-Sam
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#21 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 01:40 PM
 
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Is there anyone on this site who has circumcised their son in the same situation and everything turned out ok???
No, it didn't turn out ok. I have regretted it every single day since my son was born. The two sons that are arriving in January will be intact. If you would like to read my story, please let me know.

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#22 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 02:32 PM
 
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My dh was circed as an infant and has suffered sexual consequences (which I'm no longer able to discuss freely on this board) his entire adult life. For him, and for many others who have similar problems, the consequences of circumcision are far from "temporary." Just because it heals fine in a few days doesn't always guarantee it's going to work fine in adulthood. Yes, the majority do just fine, but why is it up to your husband to take the chance just so it looks like his?
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#23 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 03:08 PM
 
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My son is intact but would have been circumcised had he been my first child. I am thankful every day that I learned the truth about circ before I had a baby boy.

My heart goes out to all of the mothers on this board who struggle with a decision they made or those who are fighting the battle with their husbands.

OP--you have received some wonderful responses... I can only echo what others have said, please keep the focus on your son. It is his body, and your husband should not be allowed to bargain away part of it to make himself feel better. Don't be afraid to stand up for your son...that is something I doubt you will ever regret.

Meghan : Kayla~ 10/19/04 Jack~ 5/27/07
Evelyn~ 10/9/10

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#24 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 07:19 PM
 
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My Brother is intact and our father was circumcised. I think my brother could care less about his dad's penis, but my brother is very grateful my mother and father left him intact. My own son is intact and his father is also. I asked DH one day how he thinks he would feel about circ if he himself was circumcised - he told me he would feel "a lot more screwed up about it". I think it is hard for some men to come to terms with circumcision being non beneficial and even harmful when they themselves were circumcised and had no choice in the matter.

On another note - I really have a hard time hearing about doctors who dont recommend circumcision and understand it is a cosmetic surgery but still preform them. How hard is it for a doctor to simply refuse preforming this procedure? Or at the very least refer the parents to someone else who will preform it? If I were in medical school, there is no way, knowing what I know, that I could have anything to do with circumcising a non consenting person.

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#25 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 07:30 PM
 
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My kids come first. I don't think I could ever look my son in the eye if I knew I hurt him to appease my husband. I also don't think I could look myself in the eye. A child's body is not a bargaining chip.
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#26 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by jenP View Post
Pointing out the above obvious facts to the dad will not help. Because it isn't really about how the son's penis ends up looking. It's about the dad KNOWING that the son IS circumcised, even if he never once even changes a diaper or for any other reason ever sees the son's penis or the son never ever sees the father's penis. It is the dad's desperate attempt to justify his own circumcision by having it done to his son. Circumcising the son "proves" that circumcision is right and good and therefore that Dad's penis is good. Not circumcising the boy makes Dad think there could maybe be something wrong with circumcision - that he could be missing something. (and sadly, he is. But who would want to face that knowledge head-on?)
In other words, it is all about the man's issues. And his issues are his problem. You can't go around hurting your kids just to make yourself feel good about what was done to you in the past.

As for the baloney about feeling left out of all the decisions on child care, and just wanting this "one" thing to be "theirs"? Absolute BS and you should call them on it. First of all, if the wife is doing all the research, then why isn't the husband? Is anything stopping him from researching child care issues? No, he is simply letting his wife do all the work. Secondly, once presented with the research, most guys agree that their wife's decisions are right anyway (on the breastfeeding, cosleeping, etc..) So if they are perfectly happy to sit back and let the wife do all the research, and happy to go along with her well-researched decisions, then why all of a sudden the "oh poor me, I never get to have any say in raising our children..." card? Because it is emotional blackmail, that is why, just a ploy to try to get the wife to let him take a knife to a baby's penis (because he feels a primal compulsion to do this in order to protect his own ego.) If you don't believe me that the "You get to make all the decisions, all I want is this one little thing" argument is baloney, then try turning it around on him. Say, "okay, fine. From here on out you make every single decision there is. It is all up to you. I will be the perfectly submissive wife. You are the husband, you are the king. The kids will be fed what and how and when you decide, they'll get the vaccinations you feel are appropriate, they'll sleep where and on what schedule you decide, you decide if they get pacifiers or not, go in a sling or a stroller, where they go to school, how we will discipline, whether they go to daycare or have a stay at home parent or nanny, and so on. You can make EVERY decision in their whole entire childhood and I will go along with it. EXCEPT we leave the foreskin alone." Think any guys will take their wives up on the offer? I think not, because the real point of the argument is not that they want more clout on all the other decisions, it is because they just want to get the kid circumcised.
"Who, me, issues? No, I don't have any issues! I just really, really need to cut off part of my son's penis! Now just let me, already!"

Good luck, op!

Jen
Very interesting. We have talked about it more, and I am exploring HIS true motives for wanting this done. I keep asking him, WHY? and but WHY? Well, we got down to it, it is a personal want of his. He wants the possible boy to be like him. He also told me a story about a step-cousin or something like that, that he had exposure to growing up. The boy was uncircumcised and had all these problems according to my husband. He kept getting crystallized urine stuck in his foreskin or something like that and had to have surgery or something (you know when you are a kid and you REALLY dont know what the real story is). Anyways, I think that had an effect on him. Also, he told me he has been talking to his co-workers, one close one of his is uncirc. and so is his son, stating the reason of wanting him to be like Dad. The co-worker did say that the first erection his son had was very painful and he cried. Im assuming because the end of the foreskin(I read) is really like a sphincter. But they are happy heing uncirc.

Anyways, yes that makes sense that my husband only wants it because he wants it. We have been looking at pics of uncirc. males and he gets grossed out. Whats up with that? I dont think its gross. His co-workers also said that you get made fun of, they called it an anteater. I'm not afraid of my child getting made fun of though, if its not one thing, its another for teasing. I know it would make him stronger.

Oh, his other BIG reason is that I am a woman and I dont have a penis, so why would I be making a decision about a penis. Basically, leave the male stuff to males. He questions why most of the anti circ people are women. What IS the ratio of anti-circ advocates male to female anyways.

By the way, the recent circ I participated in is not the only one I have witnessed and I sure know that it is painful and looks horrible.

Thanks for listening. It helps to work this out by writing it.

Super mom to a 5 1/2 year old girl, almost 4 yr old girl, and 2 year old boy.

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#27 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 07:55 PM
 
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Im English were circumcision is very rare, dh is American where circumcision is very common. When we 1st found out that our 1st was a boy, he told me 'we would be getting him done' I said 'well I have to disagree' it was SO important to me that I said it would literally be over my dead body. I told him I would leave him before I chopped a piece of my darling healthy baby boy. No way, no how was I EVER, EVER going to do it. He just couldnt understand me, he thought, im sure I was a weirdo English hippie girl.

So he raised the subject at our local birthing class in England and everyones jaws hit the floor, he was the object of 20 peoples stares as the more vocal members of the group said 'OMG...why would you even consider that??' once he knew it wasnt just me, he went home and 'Googled' it, I made him read about it, watch videos of it being done and showed him the table they strap those little boys to. He couldnt believe it. He was sickened and called his mother to ask why she'd consented to mutulating him. It made her cry.

Now he he a complete 'intactivist' a complete 180 to his views 2 years ago. He tells people to come here to MDC and read this forum, he 'sells' the facts about how easy our intact son is to 'care' for (yeah...we dont have to do anything ) he tells people how proud he is that we took our 'whole baby' home from the hospital, how we didnt inflict needless surgery on a perfect little newborn.

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#28 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 08:01 PM
 
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The co-worker did say that the first erection his son had was very painful and he cried.
This one is bothering me because boys have erections from the time they are in utero on. There are many u/s pics with boys having an erection. If this boy was in pain due to an erection it may have been because he was starting the seperation process or the dad is not being 100% truthful.

For a few boys the seperation process is anywhere from a little painful to very painful. Not sure why it happens but then I am not sure why some girls have very painful periods and some dont or some have extremely painful breast buds while others do not. It is an individual thing.

Many boys who had issues with being intact way back when was because the parents where told to retract from birth and clean with soap and wash cloth. This is very damaging and lead to many circs later on because of it. If the intact penis is left alone to do what it is supposed to and retract when it is ready the odds of the boy having problems are very small.

Yes sometimes infections do happen they are treatable just like they are for girls without cutting anything off. Most boys never have a single issue at all though.

As of 2004 the circ rate stood at only 21% in Cali. and that number has dropped every year since so your ds would be in the minority if he where circed. http://www.cirp.org/library/statisti...taterates2004/

I wish I could give you more up to date numbers but circ isnt something they keep up with much.

 
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#29 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 08:21 PM
 
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Regarding his own most "important" reason to circ. Looking like his father.

I'd have to ask him how often he has spent time comparing his penis with his father's.
This was the kicker for my dh. It was his main argument until I asked him how many times he sat around 'comparing swords' with his dad. Then I left out literature about the myths vs facts of circ (in the restroom where he was sure to see it ). Ds is now 14 months (and intact) and it is a non-issue. I'd stick to your guns mama, your dh will get over it.

Mama to Ahnna-Bella (Dec 05) dust.gif, Harrison (Oct 08) kid.gif, and Kellan Wilder (Jan '12) baby.gif

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#30 of 66 Old 12-15-2009, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The more I read, the more I get convicted. The one poster who said she really had a problem with MD's who dont support circ but will still perform them and how could he perform it with an unconsenting parent? Yeah, how can he. It's not like my gut feeling is going to change and if I sit there and tell him that I dont want my son to be circ. and my husband is there too in the room telling him he does, I would imagine he cant do it.

I trust my gut, I trust myself and my decisions for my children. I know the feeling of going against my gut. When my first daughter was born, and the peds talked me into the first round of vac's. She was 2 months old. I was a first time mom and I didn't feel good about it, but the pressure was SO strong. After that, no more vaccines for any of them. Wow, that feeling sucked, the feeling of being pressured into something you feel is wrong.

I spoke with my mom today and she wonders why we are even arguing about this now. First of all, she thinks its 95% a girl(theres not been any boys in our side of fam for the last 3 generations.) And she says just wait, and if it happens to be a boy in Jan, then it will be easier to make that decision because it will be right in front of you. She also agrees with my husband that this is a "male" decision.

Super mom to a 5 1/2 year old girl, almost 4 yr old girl, and 2 year old boy.

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