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#31 of 48 Old 05-19-2010, 10:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie View Post
I think that often, braces are used cosmetically, but because of the problems we have created with teeth and jaw development due to lack of natural length nursing, we as a society have brought on the need for a lot of this. We're not doing anything new with a penis that would cause a large percentage of men's foreskins to grow wrong and cause debilitating problems.
That's a very good point.

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#32 of 48 Old 05-19-2010, 12:04 PM
 
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I have also heard the whole "it's more painful and more difficult when you older argument". I am having 2 impacted wisdom teeth removed tomorrow. The oral surgeon has explained to me the reason it's more difficult-if you can't have someone stay with you during the procedure in the office it will be done in a hospital and you have to stay longer(because there is no one to help you as you are groggy). Children will have a parent who will stay where adults may not have someone. The reason for the more painful argument-The procedure is not necessarily more painful but the problems can be extremely painful-in my case infections and if I don't take care of this later on could cause problems with the molars due to positioning.

With the way he described these to me it just makes the point that removing the wisdom teeth young is a preventative procedure.
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#33 of 48 Old 05-19-2010, 03:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jessjgh1 View Post
I guess we all go by what has happened to those around us, but I know one person in college who didn't get them out- till they suddenly started to inflame and another older person who suddenly developed problems too. That leads me to think the dentists are not totally crazy to offer this...
But any tooth can have issues, why are the wisdom teeth the ones that should be removed? I have needed root canal in two of my molars. I have a crown on one molars and a partial crown on another. Many of my other molars have regular fillings. I have cracks in some of my front teeth.

My wisdom teeth however, are all fine. Yes, they are far back there and some what hard to clean. They are a wee bit crooked since they came in after my orthodontics were complete and never got straightened, but other than that they have been my most trouble free teeth.

Removal of wisdom teeth should be held to the same standards as other teeth are, and treated with the same level of care. If the problem is something you would consider pulling a six year molar for, then maybe it's worth pulling the wisdom tooth for. However, if the problem is minor and you would just treat it in a 6 year molar, then the wisdom tooth should also be treated.



This is also why I suggested the "toe standard" to determined if a problem with the foreskin warrants circ. If the problem is bad enough that you would get toe amputated for a similar problem (say gangrene) then it is reasonable to get circ'd for it. However, if the problem is something you wouldn't have a toe amputated over (say athlete's foot/yeast infection) then it isn't something one should get circ'd over.

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#34 of 48 Old 05-19-2010, 05:17 PM
 
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Interesting comparison. I barely made it out of the military with my wisdom teeth. It is a matter of procedure to remove them. I argued it (I have only two wisdom teeth, and they both came in straight, no crowding, no cavities, no issues) and I eventually found the exact regulations pertaining to it. I don't remember the details now, but basically you weren't considered deployable unless you had a particular dental status, and that status typically involved the removal of wisdom teeth. I was able to find a loophole and keep my teeth (I'm out of the military now).

I know of many people who have theirs out, probably more than those who still have theirs. Some are legitimate reasons (impaction, infection, crowding, etc) some are not so legitimate (cosmetic, potential issues later, about to lose their parents' dental coverage and want it done so they don't have to pay later...)

I'm keeping my teeth, thankyouverymuch!

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#35 of 48 Old 05-19-2010, 06:25 PM
 
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But any tooth can have issues, why are the wisdom teeth the ones that should be removed?
We were talking about wisdom teeth that haven't erupted yet in some cases, but wisdom teeth definitely seem more prone to drastic problems.... Or maybe that is what the dentists want us to think? Wisdom teeth are farther back, harder to clean, and are not being used like they were designed to be... I guess it makes sense to me that they might be more problematic than the other teeth.

I agree that this might be a problem, but I'm not so sure it really is a deceptive dental practice, I'd really need to look into it more (and I'm not saying I will). It is just as possible that the dentist are right- that preventative extraction is less risky because the wisdom teeth are problematic.
Now do most dental insurance companies cover preventative removal (or removal if a dentist authorizes/suggests it). If so, and it is not an expensive out of pocket expense then I'd also be more likely to believe that it is likely a logical procedure- since the insurance companies would not want to pay for something that is not a necessity.
Of course, individuals should be able to choose whatever they feel is best for them.
I also think that dentisty- (ie. improving our 'smiles) is a very American privilege and social value that is almost always unnecessary. So I'm not sure where to draw the line on the whole
Anyways, it is not something nearly as important to me as ending cosmetic circumcision.... I see some parallels but on the other hand, no one has even posted that they had their wisdom teeth out and regretted it either (unless I missed that, if so I apologize, I realize there are complications that could come about). Seems that most of the extractions have really helped some problems and some people even wish they had done it sooner-- or had the option that their insurance covered it.

I'm not trying to be a pita either, just was a bit intriguing and somehow I got caught a few times with a toddler nursing (or asleep) on my lap so I was, you might say, a captive audience.

Jessica

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#36 of 48 Old 05-19-2010, 06:33 PM
 
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I've never met anyone who had them removed for no reason. My DH had his removed at 21 due to impaction and severe headaches and they thought that might be the cause (it worked, so they must of been right)...

I was SUPPOSED to get mine out at 14, 18, 25...but I'm a wimp and canceled it all 3 times. The reason being over crowding...and, yea, I bite my cheeks while eating at least once a day since there isn't enough room in my mouth for all my teeth, and all my orthodontic work on the bottom was ruined once they came in...but, yea.

My grandma had hers removed in her 50's due to infections.

My mom, brother, cousins, aunts and uncles all still have theirs and all are over 20.

Jillian wife to Ryan and mommy to Janelle Ashlynn (9/09/2002), Kincaid Chance (3/29/2004), Travis Neil (8/13/2007) and River Anderson (5/02/2009).
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#37 of 48 Old 05-19-2010, 07:40 PM
 
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Mine were impacted............so I had a very good reason. I hurted so much.
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#38 of 48 Old 05-20-2010, 02:12 AM
 
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I can see your connection for sure! But since it's done when we're teenagers at least we have some say in it. As opposed to newborn boys who have none.

I had mine out when I was 17. They were impacted and I just had my braces removed a few months prior. I had those bad boys on for almost 2 years- ouch! So I had mine removed because they were crowding my newly straight teeth. I was put under. Coming out of that was NOT fun!

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#39 of 48 Old 05-20-2010, 05:29 AM
 
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I had one removed, which had a cavity in it, when I was 25. It was such a terrible procedure that I opted to have another one drilled, rather than pulled, when I had another cavity at 30.

My husband had the "pre-emptive" removal, which was proposed to both of us by our dentists when we were in our teens, and had a much more complicated recovery as they had to cut into his gum to find the not-yet-erupted teeth. I thought what I went through was bad, but when he told me about his ordeal, I was shocked. And there was nothing wrong with his teeth!

I remember my dentist saying, "We'll let you keep your wisdom teeth if you keep them clean," like it was their choice, when I was a teenager. I walked right out of that office and never went back.

I see a lot of parallels with circ and always have.
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#40 of 48 Old 05-20-2010, 10:30 AM
 
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I had mine out when I was 19; in my case two of the teeth were starting to impact their neighbors. My dentist had no problems with me keeping them as long as they weren't causing problems.

Kelly, a man who is proud to be intact!
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#41 of 48 Old 05-20-2010, 01:51 PM
 
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I still have all of mine, but I really should have at least two of them removed. I'm getting repeat infections and I bite my own cheek all the time.

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#42 of 48 Old 05-20-2010, 03:45 PM
 
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When my wisdom teeth were pulled they were horizontal. The docs showed me an xray and said "see this line?" ... "yeah" ... "that's a nerve" .. "ok" ... "see this?" ... "yeah" ... "that's your tooth" ... "ok" ... "what we're going to TRY to do is get your teeth out of there without hitting that nerve" ... "good luck" ... "exactly, the chances of this actually happening as planned are about 0% ... likely you're going to have some minor discomfort" ... "for how long?" ... "forever" ... "$%^#" ... "but if we don't do this your teeth will grow into that nerve anyway, and that will really suck" .. "*$(@" ...

They were right. Permanent discomfort. Aggravated by a few things, ironically, newcastle brown ale being about the worst (and I drink quite a few other beers none of them do this but newcastle always wakes up that nerve) 20 years later I still can't ignore that pain. I've lived with it half my life now, but it isn't very fun.

It didn't really seem very "elective" to me at the time. My mouth had been totally re-arranged by that point with braces, which may have contributed to the way my wisdom teeth came in, but by the time I had them pulled I think they really did need to get yanked.

"I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!" - Dr. Seuss
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#43 of 48 Old 05-20-2010, 05:40 PM
 
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I think the routineness of it depends a lot on your dentist. I do know a lot of people who had them removed without reason from age 16-18, but kept mine until they started causing trouble when I was 23 (all four impacted and never came through the gum, two causing repeat infections and the other two pushing adjacent teeth out of alignment). Granted my dentist had suggested I have them removed around 16 when it was evident they were eventually going to be an issue, but since they weren't causing trouble at the time we ignored it and moved on. If they had come in normally I would still have them, although part of the reason a lot of people have them removed is that they truly don't have room for them and it's evident from an x-ray that they are going to be problematic. My brother's came in normally and he still has them at 25, same dentist that recommended extraction for me in high school did not recommend extracting his, so at least some dentists do evaluate it on a case by case basis.

I do think wisdom teeth have a rather high rate of being truly problematic, versus something like circumcision where having an intact penis is very rarely a problem.

Full-time RVing wifey, TTC #1 and working towards living debt-free!
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#44 of 48 Old 05-20-2010, 06:05 PM
 
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I had one removed, which had a cavity in it, when I was 25. It was such a terrible procedure that I opted to have another one drilled, rather than pulled, when I had another cavity at 30.

My husband had the "pre-emptive" removal, which was proposed to both of us by our dentists when we were in our teens, and had a much more complicated recovery as they had to cut into his gum to find the not-yet-erupted teeth. I thought what I went through was bad, but when he told me about his ordeal, I was shocked. And there was nothing wrong with his teeth!

I remember my dentist saying, "We'll let you keep your wisdom teeth if you keep them clean," like it was their choice, when I was a teenager. I walked right out of that office and never went back.

I see a lot of parallels with circ and always have.
This is what my dh had done except due to pain, and the reason they weren't in yet was impaction, not age...without anesthesia due to some weird metabolic issues (he also had a vasectomy last week under the same conditions ). His recovery was non-existant...he took 1 pain pill (motrin, nothing rx) and was eating steak that night... so not a big deal at all. So I think if vastly differs from person to person, but I personally haven't met anyone who had a hard time with recovery.

It doesn't make me brave enough to let them take out mine though, even though they do cause issues.

Jillian wife to Ryan and mommy to Janelle Ashlynn (9/09/2002), Kincaid Chance (3/29/2004), Travis Neil (8/13/2007) and River Anderson (5/02/2009).
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#45 of 48 Old 05-21-2010, 01:18 AM
 
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.. that Americans routinely remove healthy wisdom teeth from people.

Asking on Twitter about this after seeing a tweet about it, and several people tweeted back that yes, it is a routine thing that is done to most teens, without any evidence of a problem, as prophylaxis.
...

I live in the UK, and wisdom teeth only tend to be removed here if there is a problem with them. ....

Anyway, slightly digressing from the forum topic, but thought it was an interesting comparison.
I agree--interesting comparison!

I know that to join the Peace Corps you are *required* to get your wisdom teeth removed (at least that was the case when I was in college) because "something might go wrong with them while you are on the field, and the Peace Corps doesn't want to have to pay to send you back to the USA to have it dealt with."

I had my wisdom teeth removed because I did have a problem--they were pushing forward on my other teeth and un-doing all the straightening I'd had done with braces. And to think that I had 4 molars removed before even getting the braces on! In my case, the recovery was not all that bad. I had it done first thing in the morning, and was actually out getting dinner at a restaurant when the oral surgeon called to check up on me that evening. LOL.
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#46 of 48 Old 05-21-2010, 01:43 AM
 
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I'm in my forties and have repeatedly had dentists try and remove my wisdom teeth for no valid reason. I did have one removed because it did become impacted when it was coming in and was excrutiatingly painful. I still have my others, even though every dentist I've been to has recommended I have them removed.
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#47 of 48 Old 05-21-2010, 01:45 AM
 
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i had mine cut out, they were coming in crooked and i already had my teeth fixed with braces. recovery wasn't bad at all. my little sister had all 4 of hers come in just fine so she is keeping them! i also had a very crowded mouth, i had 4 other molars pulled.

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#48 of 48 Old 05-21-2010, 04:08 AM
 
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I still have mine, but only because I fought for them. Everyone I knew had them removed in high school prophylactically, including all of my younger sisters. They did take awhile to fully come in and "settle" - a period of years, but they're fine now.

I did get one removed, and may need another removed. But I consider that an iatrogenic problem- they got cavities and rather than FILL them, like you would with any other cavity in a young, healthy 20 something, every dentist I saw insisted on wanting to pull them. I refused and kept looking. Unfortunately, by the time I found a dentist willing to fill them for me, and had the money to get it done, the cavities had grown considerably larger. One got filled, the other was deemed unfillable and I left it until it got so large that the tooth was literally breaking apart. When I went to get it pulled the brought me a consent form to pull all four- and when I refused to sign it the attendant actually tried to convince me it was "just in case you want the other three pulled later on". Needless to say, I made her redo the form and consented to ONLY the bad tooth being removed. The pulling wasn't bad at all, I went in, he yanked, and out it came. I didn't even fill the painkiller prescription he gave me, ibuprofen took care of it. The dentist who referred me asked why I didn't want it out, and I pointed out it would leave a big gap where my tooth used to be and he tried to argue that there would be no such gap? Sorry, but its been a few years and there is definitely a gap there.

My other tooth the filling is not holding, it got refilled earlier this year (and the dentist whined the whole time about what a bad patient I was to make him do such a difficult filling- um, thats your JOB) I'm hoping it holds now, but it doesn't seem likely. If it doesn't, they've already told me they cannot fill it again, there's not enough tooth left.

I'm convinced though, that if they'd both been filled when the cavities where small, both teeth would still be good today. It really irritates me that it took so much effort to find someone to get them filled because most dentists refuse to do anything but pull them.

The other two (both bottom) teeth are fine. I'm sure if the last upper goes, they'll try to convince me to have the bottoms out as well- they tried to pull it last time because they seem to think every tooth needs to have a correlating upper tooth. But its not happening. I'm sure that if they were pulling, say a regular molar, they wouldn't be so eager to pull its corresponding upper or lower at the same time, and I expect my wisdom teeth to get the same consideration.
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