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#1 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, DH isn't totally on board with no circ. He's not vehemently PRO on the subject either. Maybe I'll just share some disjointed thoughts:

For awhile he was getting upset because *I* was getting upset and coming across as attacking. I've since worked on that. Last night I shared some random bits of info I was finding...and then came across Dr. Sears (a doc he actually KNOWS OF and respects) and mentioned he was against circ. DH said, "You can stop bombarding me with info now." I froze because that is NOT AT ALL what I was trying to do. In fact, I was trying to seem as matter of fact as possible. After a pause he said, "I know that's not how you intend it to come across, but that's how it all sounds right now." He went on to explain that, for some reason he hasn't discovered within himself, he has a deep rooted belief that boys need to be circumcised. He said he's totally for looking at it but he'll have to get past whatever is going on in his brain first. We've already decided to shell out and have a mohel do it IF it comes down to do (30sec procedure by someone that's done tons of them instead of a 30min procedure by a resident or something...it's our middle ground) I did tell him that I'm still not okay with it and have mentioned more than once that I can't look at photos of the procedure or read about what happens or anything like that...it's too hard.

So, all I can do at this point is wait and pray right? We have until January to decide.

Kas (24), Helpmeet to Stefan (25), Mom to Franklin Gaudelio 4/15/09, Jonathan Boswell 1/2/11
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#2 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 08:49 PM
 
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no time to type...this is for YOU:

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

sus

Baby the babies while they're babies so they don't need babying for a lifetime.
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#3 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 08:52 PM
 
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Not to be snarky - but why should his deep-rooted belief that boys should be circumcised override your deep-rooted belief that they should be intact? Why should his feelings override your need to protect our baby boy from pain and trauma?
It's good that he recognizes that the issue is with him, and that he is willing to think about it. Perhaps instead of compromising on the method of circumcising, you could compromise on the time frame. Even if you decide to circumcise your son, it does not have to be done right away. You could ask your Dh to wait for a moth, a year, 10 years. Obviously, it would be better to leave the choice to your son when he is old enough to make such a choice.
In any case, no decision should be made until he addresses this issue that has solely to do with him and nothing to do with your son.
Yes, wait and pray - and stand your ground. If he cannot provide sound medical reasons that a son should be circumcised then he doesn't get to make the decision!
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#4 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Not to be snarky - but why should his deep-rooted belief that boys should be circumcised override your deep-rooted belief that they should be intact? Why should his feelings override your need to protect our baby boy from pain and trauma?
It's good that he recognizes that the issue is with him, and that he is willing to think about it. Perhaps instead of compromising on the method of circumcising, you could compromise on the time frame. Even if you decide to circumcise your son, it does not have to be done right away. You could ask your Dh to wait for a moth, a year, 10 years. Obviously, it would be better to leave the choice to your son when he is old enough to make such a choice.
In any case, no decision should be made until he addresses this issue that has solely to do with him and nothing to do with your son.
Yes, wait and pray - and stand your ground. If he cannot provide sound medical reasons that a son should be circumcised then he doesn't get to make the decision!
My feelings are fairly new...so not really as deep rooted to be fair.

And, if we do it, we would be waiting at least a couple of weeks...so I'd have that.

Kas (24), Helpmeet to Stefan (25), Mom to Franklin Gaudelio 4/15/09, Jonathan Boswell 1/2/11
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#5 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:07 PM
 
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I would give him the latest figures of circumcised infants (2009), which is reported to be at 34%, and tell him, "What if, when our son grows up and is in the minority, he has a deep rooted belief that boys are supposed to be intact, with all their parts, and wonders why we took something away from him that didn't belong to us."
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#6 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would give him the latest figures of circumcised infants (2009), which is reported to be at 34%, and tell him, "What if, when our son grows up and is in the minority, he has a deep rooted belief that boys are supposed to be intact, with all their parts, and wonders why we took something away from him that didn't belong to us."
I can try...however, statistics aren't really a good selling point because there are studies with good numbers on both sides. He knows this and will go search for the other side to compare.

Kas (24), Helpmeet to Stefan (25), Mom to Franklin Gaudelio 4/15/09, Jonathan Boswell 1/2/11
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#7 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:23 PM
 
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FYI, if you decide to circ and to use a mohel, many mohels will only circ a newborn, not an older baby.
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#8 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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FYI, if you decide to circ and to use a mohel, many mohels will only circ a newborn, not an older baby.
I figured as much. We'd probably do it after a week (that whole "8 days" thing and all) not anything past a week and half.

That's still a big IF because it will come out of pocket...

Kas (24), Helpmeet to Stefan (25), Mom to Franklin Gaudelio 4/15/09, Jonathan Boswell 1/2/11
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#9 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:32 PM
 
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FYI, if you decide to circ and to use a mohel, many mohels will only circ a newborn, not an older baby.
yeah, bc after a certain age, you must legally provide anesthesia, it has to be done in a medical facility. that should tell you something right there, no?

Bring back the old MDC
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#10 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:35 PM
 
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Be aware that the '30 seconds' leaves no time for any pain control. While it takes seconds to cut off a body part there's going to be days, if not weeks, of post operative pain.

Personally, I'd take a 30 minute operation with pain control vs. a 30 second operation without.

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#11 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:37 PM
 
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He feels that boys need to be circumcised because he wants, no, NEEDS to believe that his own circumcision was Good and Right and Served a purpose. Deep down he may feel wounded or somehow inadequate or helpless and violated...but those feelings are too hard too drag into the open and deal with for so many men. Their "out" is to circumcise their sons in order to prove that circumcision is good and necessary.
I wish I had answers on how to deal with feelings like that! It is a very emotional issue for men, which explains to us perplexed wives who are giving them very factual, logical data, why they can get so crazy and illogical.

As for a having a mohel do it, if you see the movie "Cut" there is an up-close, detailed, real-time segment showing a mohelet performing a circumcision. Though it is relatively quick, it was well over thirty seconds (maybe 5 minutes?), and appeared to be very painful to the person to whom it was done. If you don't have access to the movie, PM me, I have an extra copy I could loan. (Also interesting to note that earlier in the movie this woman went on about how circumcision doesn't hurt, the baby only cries because he doesn't like having his diaper off and being cold, etc. Then when she is doing it, there is not a peep from the baby as she removes his clothes and diaper, straps his legs down, wipes a cold gel over his groin, etc. He ONLY begins to make any noise at all at the moment she puts one side of a hemostat inside his foreskin and the other on the outside and clamps it closed. As SOON as it is closed down, the formerly completely quiet baby begins to SHRIEK. So I'm thinking she was lying or deluded when she was saying it was all about having the clothes off and such.)
Another thing to consider is, when the kid is 40 and wishing he had a foreskin, will it really matter to him if the procedure that took this part of his anatomy from him 40 years ago took 3 or 10 or 30 minutes?
And, the week or two of painful healing (in a wet/dirty diaper) is unchanged regardless of how fast the circumcision was done.

Jen
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#12 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:40 PM
 
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Be aware that the '30 seconds' leaves no time for any pain control. While it takes seconds to cut off a body part there's going to be days, if not weeks, of post operative pain.

Personally, I'd take a 30 minute operation with pain control vs. a 30 second operation without.
Not like there's going to be any pain control with the circumcision done in the hospital, anyway.
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#13 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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He feels that boys need to be circumcised because he wants, no, NEEDS to believe that his own circumcision was Good and Right and Served a purpose. Deep down he may feel wounded or somehow inadequate or helpless and violated...but those feelings are too hard too drag into the open and deal with for so many men. Their "out" is to circumcise their sons in order to prove that circumcision is good and necessary.
I wish I had answers on how to deal with feelings like that! It is a very emotional issue for men, which explains to us perplexed wives who are giving them very factual, logical data, why they can get so crazy and illogical.

Jen
I really appreciate this. We've also had some, uh, marital stuff going on lately that *might* play into his feeling inadequate or whatever. I don't know what to do.

It probably makes me very un-MDC and will get me horribly flamed...but I don't want this to be a major source of argument with our marriage. We're already under strain because of other stuff. If we can find a sort of common ground with this then I think I can deal.



Ugh, I'm regretting this thread.

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#14 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 09:42 PM
 
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How does his unidentifiable "deep seated belief" influence decisions? I mean, to make any major decisions in my house, you have to have identified why you feel the way you do...

"just because" is not good enough... especially when it comes to something that involves someone elses body...

This is a tree on fire with love, but it's still scary since most people think love only looks like one thing instead of the whole world. *
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#15 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 10:08 PM
 
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It sounds like you are in a really tough position. I'm really sorry that your marriage is under strain right now. But, I think that your son's body shouldn't be a bargaining chip in a marriage. What happens when things do work out in your marriage? Is the fact that your son was put through a very painful unnecessary surgery going to be what saves it? What about if things don't work out in your marriage and you end up separated? Is having your son circ'd against your better judgement going to make that any better? I just don't want to see you do something irreparable to your son under circumstances that have nothing to do with your actual son, the person who will have to live with your decision for the rest of his life.

 
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#16 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 10:46 PM
 
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I really appreciate this. We've also had some, uh, marital stuff going on lately that *might* play into his feeling inadequate or whatever. I don't know what to do.

It probably makes me very un-MDC and will get me horribly flamed...but I don't want this to be a major source of argument with our marriage. We're already under strain because of other stuff. If we can find a sort of common ground with this then I think I can deal.



Ugh, I'm regretting this thread.
AFWife, I just wanted to offer you so me support. I stumbled across this board years before I had, DS-- before I met DH even I think. At the beginning I didn't realize what everyone was so worked up about. I just didn't think it was that big of a deal. I certainly couldn't imagine divorcing someone over it.

Then, slowly, slowly after years, and finally having DS, I've come to the point where I feel very strongly about it.

I feel like you and your husband are just in the beginning of your journey of figuring out how you feel about RIC. I can't imagine that once your eyes have been opened to the truth of it; that you will every go back to feeling ok about having it done to your son. Don't do this and have regrets later. Don't let your husband have regrets later. If you don't have it done; that option will always be there for you, your dh, or your son.

Texmati-- Knitter, Hindu, vegetarian, WOHM. Wife to superdadsuperhero.gif and mom to DS babyf.gif24 months, and DD boc.gif 8 months! .

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#17 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 11:14 PM
 
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Having a Mohel do it, there is still a chance of complications such as bleeding and even hemorrhaging. At least if you are in a hospital or doctor's office they are equipped to handle an emergency right away... plus, it is possible to demand and get anesthesia before the procedure.

Since your DH is feeling like circ'ing is the way to go, and you almost seem on the fence (or at least not adamant about it not being a consideration) why not wait for longer than 8 days or a few weeks? You can always have it done later on, but once the foreskin is gone, there's no going back.

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#18 of 72 Old 08-31-2010, 11:20 PM
 
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...but I don't want this to be a major source of argument with our marriage. We're already under strain because of other stuff. If we can find a sort of common ground with this then I think I can deal.
Kas, I think that if you did give in to your DH on this issue, you will end up resenting him over it for ever. You already know that circumcision does a lot of harm, causes a lot of pain, and essentialy has no benefits but carries a lot of risk. You are going to feel that you were forced into making a choice that you did not wish to make - and really it is not a choice that any parent should make - that should be the sole right of the owner of the penis in question - your son.
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#19 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 12:52 AM
 
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Not like there's going to be any pain control with the circumcision done in the hospital, anyway.
Not that it makes circ okay or less evil but many, though not nearly enough, hospitals do offer pain control. Of course the Dr then has to choose to use it. And having needles in ones penis needs pain control on itself.

It's frustrating to see that something so wrong and harmful is portrayed as lesser if a certain practioner does it.

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#20 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 03:16 AM
 
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OK, so there's one vote for circ and one vote against. Let your son cast the deciding ballot.

Besides, HIS (your son's) vote is really the only one that counts. His body, his choice.

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#21 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 04:14 AM
 
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Do check out that earlier link. It will help you understand a lot of what your dh is thinking (and subconsciously thinking).

When I was first really finding out the nitty-gritty about circumcision, we were in a bit of a different situation than you (dh and I had already decided we didn't want to circ, but hadn't researched it). Dh did get defensive as I would read something and tell him about it. It's difficult for a man to learn what's really happened; it's hard for them to hear and realize that their parents acceded to something which had such permanent, long-term negative impacts on them. It's not just 'new information,' it's dropping a bomb on what they always 'knew' before about their circumcision.

DH was actually glad to know how his circ had been impacting some of our intimacy issues -- but he did not like the fact that I was so sad about it (there was a time when I really would feel very sorrowful for him; I still do but I'm more used to it and don't mention it to him anymore because he's moving on).

But this really is a big paradigm shift. I think it's natural for a man to view it on some levels as a rejection of HIM and of how his body is, even though he didn't have any control over how his body came to be that way.

You are right; you do have time. Do keep thinking about this and posting about it -- you're going to need support and advice as you process through this as a couple. It's not always comfortable, especially while there are other marital issues on the plate at the same time.

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#22 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 04:21 AM
 
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I really appreciate this. We've also had some, uh, marital stuff going on lately that *might* play into his feeling inadequate or whatever. I don't know what to do.

It probably makes me very un-MDC and will get me horribly flamed...but I don't want this to be a major source of argument with our marriage. We're already under strain because of other stuff. If we can find a sort of common ground with this then I think I can deal.



Ugh, I'm regretting this thread.
My immediate thought when I read this was that if you do allow him to do this, you will have a far greater source of argument within your marriage. If I were to witness my baby boy being cut, and then had to deal with the reality of dealing with the damaged penis on a daily basis, I would sure as heck have an issue with my husband.

I am not saying this because I want to save your baby boy. I just honestly think that you will have a far greater issue if you let him make this choice, and it may well be the one that breaks the camel's back. It would be for me, if I were in your shoes.

HTH.
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#23 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 08:40 AM
 
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My feelings are fairly new...so not really as deep rooted to be fair.

And, if we do it, we would be waiting at least a couple of weeks...so I'd have that.
Well, with all due respect, I imagine that you do believe that newborns should be protected from pain, trauma, and unnecessary surgery, and that we all have the right to bodily integrity and to decide what happens to our own bodies.

You should not regret this thread or the fact that you will hear strong opinions. Circumcision is not something you can be wishy-washy about. If you believe it is wrong, then the only thing that matters is protecting your son. As others have said, you cannot use your baby as a bargaining chip to perhaps save a marriage that is on shaky grounds. It is up to your husband to figure out what his feelings are about, not for you to pussy-foot around and try to make things better for him or find a "more acceptable" way to inflict harm on a newborn. You need to hear the strong opinions to strengthen your resolve and be able to tell your DH that you understand where he is coming from, that you realize that his own circumcision may be hard to come to grips with, that you empathize with him and you are not trying to disregard his feelings or opinions, but that you cannot and will not do that to your son.
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#24 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 09:14 AM
 
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I really appreciate this. We've also had some, uh, marital stuff going on lately that *might* play into his feeling inadequate or whatever. I don't know what to do.

It probably makes me very un-MDC and will get me horribly flamed...but I don't want this to be a major source of argument with our marriage. We're already under strain because of other stuff. If we can find a sort of common ground with this then I think I can deal.



Ugh, I'm regretting this thread.
I'm sorry to hear that you are regretting posting. Also sorry to hear you are having marital issues.
I completely understand and sympathize for you just wanting to find peace in your marriage.
However, I think that would only happen if you really, truly, 100% believed that circumcision was the best thing for your son. It seems that you are already doubting that and have some understanding of the pain involved in the operation and the healing phase, and of the lifelong difference in sexual function. Knowing what you know, if you go along with it to keep peace, it is very likely that, as other posters have pointed out, you would end up resenting your husband for making you go against your instincts and your logical knowledge. (You could read some of the stories in the thread "If you regret circumcising...") That usually isn't good for a marriage and you can never go back and undo it.
Also as another poster has pointed out, this new information is like a bomb being dropped on your husband. All of his life he has known his body the way it is, and all of his life his entire culture has told him that circumcised is cleaner, healthier, more pleasing aesthetically, and perfectly functional. This is what he has known all his life. If he ever had any brief thought of wondering what was cut away, it was likely laid to rest by his knowledge that having his foreskin cut off only made his penis better and saved him from a myriad of problems, and surely he was also glad to know that it was fast and painless when it was done to him as a baby, far better than him having it done as an adult when it would be so very painful - but of course necessary, for again he surely knew as we've all been told that if you don't have it done as a baby you will surely have to have it done later.

Now you come along and start talking about things like, it isn't really necessary; intact boys don't actually have all those awful problems and infections and sexual rejections that he thought his circumcision saved him from. You're telling him that it is incredibly painful for a baby. You're telling him that the foreskin actually contributes greatly to the sexual experience for a man and his partner.
You are of course talking about the pros and cons of doing it to your son, but to your husband's ears I'll bet it sounds like you are telling him: "You were put through great pain when you were most vulnerable, it served NO purpose as far as giving you any health or hygiene benefit, and you lost out on sexual feelings for both of us."
Whoa, who would want to hear that??? And hearing it, who wouldn't choose to NOT believe it?? So he tells himself, "No, that's a load of bull. Circumcision is a good thing. It was good for me, and I must do it for my son."


But but but but but.. the problem with that is, pushing away those scary feelings he is having, denying them, is NOT going to make them go away. He might circumcise your son and think that all is well again, but once those doubts have been planted they aren't going away. They'll still be there around the edges. Along with your own doubts and possibly resentments.

Now, I don't mean to sound all doom and gloom. I just want to give the background for what I've seen in my own situation and with friends as a more lasting and real solution. Painful though it may be, the only way to truly put those bad feelings to rest is to drag them out into the open and deal with them. Own the feelings, realize they are his and have nothing to do with his son, work though them. Then he can heal and feel whole again and confident and happy, rather than the more unstable happiness of denial which relies on never letting the subject surface.
For many men, NOT circumcising their sons is a huge part of the process of healing from their own painful thoughts about what was done to them.
And for many wives, seeing their husband be so brave and strong as to face all those awful feelings, and work through them, and step to the plate to protect his son, elevates the husband to Hero status in their eyes.

Now, which would be better for a marriage: a man who hides from his feelings and cuts his son to try to feel better about himself and a wife who resents him for it every time she changes the baby's diaper (and a son who may well grow up to resent both of them for taking the decision from him?)
Or, a man who has the inner strength and quiet confidence that comes from working through a tough thing, and who feels a resurgence of that strength and deep connection of fatherliness every time he sees the baby that he helped make and helped to keep whole and healthy; with a wife who sees her husband as a smart, strong, sensitive, caring HERO and whose knees turn to jelly when she sees him with his son and realizes what an amazing father he is for putting his son's well-being ahead of his own feelings?
(I know that is how I feel about my husband!)

I wish the best for all of you. I know this is a difficult thing.
(and isn't it maddening that so many of us have to go through it, because of what doctors decided so many years ago to do to all the male babies, often even without parental consent? I see it as, that doctor who took your baby husband from your mother-in-law, HE is the one who is now causing you pain in your marriage at what should be a most happy time for you.)

Sorry for the novel, hope it helps some. Sending healing and peaceful thoughts your way.

Jen
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#25 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 09:26 AM
 
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Give it a rest for at LEAST a month. Don't even mention it aloud. Let him process it. He has asked you for space, give him space.

I'm not saying to give in. Of course not. Just let him think about it a while, especially since you have at least a couple of more months here.

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#26 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 10:39 AM
 
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I agree with the pp and give this a rest for at least a month. Give him time to really process the info you have sent him, and really think this through.

I sent my husband some detailed links about 2 months ago on circ - and we just talked about it last night. This is such a tough subject for men that have never thought about what might have been done to them, their own loss.

I also have a son that was circ'd as an infant and I knew then and there I had made a mistake and what was done to him was wrong. I wish I had protected him .. but I didn't think twice about it, I thought it was just what you were supposed to do. There is no way in HELL I will allow another son to experience that pain, to go through that as a tiny helpless infant I am supposed to protect.

And you can sure bet if for whatever reason I circ'd to appease dh .. I would resent him for it. I'm pretty sure you would as well - or you never would have posted here in the first place. Speaking from experience, it's hard to watch your baby boy go through that pain, retreat into a semi-coma to deal with it, refuse to nurse, etc .. and know it's all for what? Cosmetics? To make Dad feel better about his own penis? No way.

Just give him some time to take in all the info you've given him. He knows how important this is to you, so revisit talking about it in a month or two. You've got time. I'm 33 weeks and we just really spoke about this last night.

Wishing you the best

Candacepeace.gif, Married to dh   guitar.gif, Mom to ds (8) biggrinbounce.gif , Gavin candle.gif (9/30/10 - 12/19/10) and cautiously expecting our rainbow1284.gif 4-29-12

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#27 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 10:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise View Post
Give it a rest for at LEAST a month. Don't even mention it aloud. Let him process it. He has asked you for space, give him space.

I'm not saying to give in. Of course not. Just let him think about it a while, especially since you have at least a couple of more months here.
Excellent advice.
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#28 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 11:09 AM
 
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Well, with all due respect, I imagine that you do believe that newborns should be protected from pain, trauma, and unnecessary surgery, and that we all have the right to bodily integrity and to decide what happens to our own bodies.

You should not regret this thread or the fact that you will hear strong opinions. Circumcision is not something you can be wishy-washy about. If you believe it is wrong, then the only thing that matters is protecting your son. As others have said, you cannot use your baby as a bargaining chip to perhaps save a marriage that is on shaky grounds. It is up to your husband to figure out what his feelings are about, not for you to pussy-foot around and try to make things better for him or find a "more acceptable" way to inflict harm on a newborn. You need to hear the strong opinions to strengthen your resolve and be able to tell your DH that you understand where he is coming from, that you realize that his own circumcision may be hard to come to grips with, that you empathize with him and you are not trying to disregard his feelings or opinions, but that you cannot and will not do that to your son.
I agree 100%, and I also agree with the pp's who have advised a hiatus in speaking about this for at least a month. Respectfully, and with no snark intended, there is not a lot of common ground on this issue. He can't be halfway circ'd. No matter how it happens, in the end he'll either be circ'd or he won't. So, there really isn't much room for bargaining, kwim?

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#29 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Kas, I think that if you did give in to your DH on this issue, you will end up resenting him over it for ever.
That's what he said. He went on to say that if he gives in to my way of thinking and hasn't totally changed his way of thinking then he's afraid he'll end up resenting ME because he had to compromise his feelings...and part of our marital crap right now is that it wouldn't be the first time he'd sacrificed and I didn't.



The guy I emailed said 30 seconds or so, that he's done hundreds and been doing it a LONG time (I forget number of years), and that a topical anesthetic is totally an option. He doesn't use clamps or anything like that. I have yet to call and get the full details of how it's done...I was going to have DH do it honestly.



If nothing else I'll be following the advice to not talk about it because I just CAN'T. Everything is so emotionally effed up for me right now. This just adds sprinkles to the icing that's already on the cake.

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#30 of 72 Old 09-01-2010, 11:43 AM
 
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That's what he said. He went on to say that if he gives in to my way of thinking and hasn't totally changed his way of thinking then he's afraid he'll end up resenting ME because he had to compromise his feelings...and part of our marital crap right now is that it wouldn't be the first time he'd sacrificed and I didn't.
That's true, many times when a husband doesn't "get his way" on the circumcision issue, he is resentful for some time.
However, the differences are:
1-many times, this resentfulness evaporates when the father sees his perfect son, or over the next few weeks as he interacts with his son and becomes SO GLAD that he didn't get his way, because now he couldn't imagine hurting this perfect little baby for even a second.
On the other hand, I have never once heard of a wife who went against her own conviction and cut a son who ever for a second stopped regretting it.
2-if the child is left intact, it always leaves open the option of later circumcision. Even if you decide to wait until he is old enough to participate in the decision himself, the door is never actually shut on the possibility of his being circumcised.
On the other hand, once it is done it is done and it can never be reversed.

Also, you should be aware that every man I've ever heard of who wanted to circumcise his son has used that same argument. "But you get your way about everything else!! I give in on everything! All I want is this one little thing, how can you be so mean as to not give me just this? You are so selfish..." and so on. Seriously. Every guy. It's just their desperation talking, using anything, even the old guilt trip, to just get you to say yes. Because pretty much their whole psychological life right now depends on getting you to say yes. So I wouldn't put much, if any, time, effort, or emotion into arguing about the details of all those "other" sacrifices he made. They are just red herrings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFWife View Post
Everything is so emotionally effed up for me right now. This just adds sprinkles to the icing that's already on the cake.
I'm so sorry to hear things are so tough now.
I hope that dropping this issue will help things to calm down and for you to reconnect and find your joy.

Best to you

Jen
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