Feeling so much pain and I need to vent I guess.... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am the mother of an intact one year old boy. When we found out we were expecting, my husband said "There is no question, he's  getting circ'd" - and we fought and went round and round...well, in the end, I won and we're SO glad. Now that I look back, I realize that there was never a chance that we were going to do something like that to any kid of ours...but at the time it felt really real, like I really was the only thing standing between my son and the knife.

 

Flash forward to present day. My sister is expecting. Oh god...I get tears in my eyes as I'm typing this. She is expecting a boy and is due toward the end of March. They're going to circ him. She hasn't said so outright, but when I saw them this past weekend and asked if they'd reviewed all the info I sent her...they said "Yes, but Robert (her DH) has both uncirc'd and circ'd men in the family so he knows all about it and it's a personal choice" and they went on, just saying more stuff like that...not saying outright that they;d do it...but his face, the things he was saying, etc were saying "There is no way my son won't be circ'd".

 

I know it's none of my business...but I also know my sister wouldn't be doing it if it were just her. She doesn't really stand up to him I don't think and their relationship is so new. They will only have been dating a year or so when this child is BORN...and I know they are trying to hard to be good parents, to make the right choices...but they are also young and I think scared and I don't know...just trying to do "what they think they should".  I can tell they care and I know that no kid can ask for more than that, for more than parents who care really intensely about doing right by them....but damn it they are going to cut this kids penis and I can't get over it.

 

 

 

So, the reason I'm here....

 

How do you handle the deep pain you feel when someone close to you is going to make this choice and you know there is nothing you can do about it? They don't realize what they are doing, they just have no idea...I have nightmares about my poor, loving, wonderful sister, looking down into the bloody diaper of her precious son and wondering why it was so damned important to cut his penis. I don't want her to feel regret..I don't want her to feel pain and more than anything, I feel like I'm fighting for my poor nephew, who has no voice in this matter even though it's his penis.

 

I feel anguish, I feel deep remorse for not being able to do anything. I feel powerless to help this child. What do I do? How do I get over this? I've tried EVERYTHING...the MDC stuff, the really great, concise lists, link to the "regret" thread, articles, etc. Nothing penetrates the wall of "it's our choice". They aren't circing for any reason...they just ARE. Because it's their choice. ???? What does that mean? :( :( :(

 

My last ditch effort was sending her a message tonight that was basically me begging her...BEGGING, outright, to reconsider. I even sent her a circ video...not the really bad one, I'm not trying to traumatize her or guilt her...I'm just trying to make her SEE.

 

How do I get past this. How do I let this go. It's choking me, the knowledge that she's going to do this...it's choking me and making me feel a desperate, crazy feeling. I want to scream, I want to cry....I hold my own son and am just so glad he's intact....

 

How do I let go and move on happily, supporting my sister and loving my nephew without feeling guilt that I couldn't save his penis? Because that's what I need to do....if I push this any further, I'll be hurting my relationship with my sister and I don't want that, she really needs her sister in all of this, she's in way over her head, she's going to have to send this baby to daycare at less than six weeks old and the whole thing is just going to be really stressful..I want to be there for her, I don't want to alienate her...how do I do this?

 

 

Thanks for reading this far....it feels good to get this off my chest. I'm just so torn inside...I feel such heartache.


Me and DH ...lovin' DD dust.gif(6/08) and DS kid.gif(11/09) Plus NEW BABY!! DD baby.gif (UC-5/12) We heartbeat.gif Water Birth/Homebirth/No Vax or Circ/BF/BW/Country Livin'! chicken3.gif

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#2 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 04:58 PM
 
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"Hugs" I am so worried I might be in this same situation. My sister is due in April with a boy. I haven't had a chance to talk to her yet. She lives in a different province. I have been thinking all week about how to bring up the subject. She isn't a research type of person and will defer to her partner. She actually really hates to use the computer. I've been contemplating sending her a Saving Penises info pack. http://www.savingpenises.org/our-information-packs.html and then talking to her later. I hate that this is even a worry.


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#3 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post

"Hugs" I am so worried I might be in this same situation. My sister is due in April with a boy. I haven't had a chance to talk to her yet. She lives in a different province. I have been thinking all week about how to bring up the subject. She isn't a research type of person and will defer to her partner. She actually really hates to use the computer. I've been contemplating sending her a Saving Penises info pack. http://www.savingpenises.org/our-information-packs.html and then talking to her later. I hate that this is even a worry.



I'm sorry you're in the same boat. It feels so crappy to be all up in somebodies life...but it's just, THIS ISSUE....I can't let it go in my head. I'm going to have to, but I don't know how.

 

If she told me that she was going to elect to have a c/s at 37 weeks and didn't plan to breastfeed for even a day....I'd have an easier time letting go of all of that, than I'm having letting go of this. It's just so unfair...I don't understand why all these people talk about "it's our choice" - a kid is only YOUR little kid for a short while, for most of the time they are on this planet, they will not be a baby, they will be an adult...and you are going to make a choice for them when they are days old, which will go on to effect a major part of their life for the REST of their life? I just can't understand that thinking.

 

I'm just hurt in my heart, knowing that I can't save this baby boy. I can't get the images of the circ videos out of my head, it's such nightmarish, gruesome stuff. My own mother, who went along with the circ of my brother because everyone was standing there telling her to do it, has told my sister how deeply she regrets having done it. There is nothing else we can do. Now, we just have to move on.

 

GL with your sister...those penis packs look AMAZING!

 


Me and DH ...lovin' DD dust.gif(6/08) and DS kid.gif(11/09) Plus NEW BABY!! DD baby.gif (UC-5/12) We heartbeat.gif Water Birth/Homebirth/No Vax or Circ/BF/BW/Country Livin'! chicken3.gif

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#4 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 09:19 PM
 
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i hope it's not a UAV to suggest that you can pray or meditate about it. not even specific to circumcision, but when some issue is driving you batty, it's always good to find a way to let it go and for some people prayer can do that.

 

as for finding some peace, you are personalizing this because it's your sister and your nephew. but EVERY baby boy who is circumcised feels the pain and loses the foreskin and its sensation for all of his life. you make an excellent point that it's not the parents' choice to take that away from their adult offspring... but that is effectively what happens when they choose to circumcise.

 

it's possible that by posting your thoughts and anguish here, you will reach other parents who are on the fence with this decision, and help spare their sons instead. which, while not necessarily helping your own family per se, are still worthy and righteous accomplishments.


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#5 of 28 Old 01-10-2011, 10:54 PM
 
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as an aside, there is a really amazing letter on this board somewhere that someone wrote to their sister as a last ditch effort. search for it. it talked about how since they are doing it they should research methods and pain relief and etc. 

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#6 of 28 Old 01-11-2011, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks ladies....thank you so much for your replies.

 

I have searched my heart on this/prayed/meditated on my feelings and what I come up with is the thought that, like many boys who are circ'd, my nephew is going to grow up to be strong and healthy and happy with enormous potential for doing and experiencing good. I just feel heartbroken. That's all. I know it will get better...I just wish it would get better now, because I'm really seriously bummed. I feel like, if I give up on trying to convince her, I'm giving up on this baby boy....and that doesn't feel right. But what can I do? It REALLY IS her baby...and to her, that means it's her choice. :(


Me and DH ...lovin' DD dust.gif(6/08) and DS kid.gif(11/09) Plus NEW BABY!! DD baby.gif (UC-5/12) We heartbeat.gif Water Birth/Homebirth/No Vax or Circ/BF/BW/Country Livin'! chicken3.gif

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#7 of 28 Old 01-11-2011, 02:28 PM
 
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This may be unorthodox but if my brother and SIL ever have a boy I plan to bribe them with college money if it comes to that.  My brother is very pro-circ. 

 

I am 0 for 5 with various cousins and in-laws and it's awful so I feel your pain.  There was a line at a certain point that I could not cross since they weren't siblings or whatever.  But if it's my brother we're talking about, I am prepared to put up a serious fight.  And if it comes to bribery or something like that I will do it.  I will have no shame. 

 

I am convinced that these fathers just need to be told how it's going to go down (or not go down in this case ;) and they can get over it later.  They would all get over it eventually if mothers just did whatever they had to do to stop the circs.  People get over stuff.  The human brain can only stay mad for so long.  I mean how long does one fixate on their child's genitals?  For how many years?  By the time a boy is a pre-teen how often is Dad or Mom going to be checking out his penis? 


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#8 of 28 Old 01-13-2011, 10:14 AM
 
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Perhaps I am an abnormal person and go all the way about things I feel strongly about, but they would have to call the hospital's security to drug me out of the hospital while I would be still trying to get sense into my sibling's head and warn the doctors that when this baby grows up I would be there to encourage and support him in getting the hospital's b*** sued.

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#9 of 28 Old 01-14-2011, 07:48 PM
 
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Perhaps I am an abnormal person and go all the way about things I feel strongly about, but they would have to call the hospital's security to drug me out of the hospital while I would be still trying to get sense into my sibling's head and warn the doctors that when this baby grows up I would be there to encourage and support him in getting the hospital's b*** sued.


 I really like that - it does create a wonderful visual !!   However I doubt that I would actualy carry through!

 

To the OP:   I would be very tempted to ask just how this is their choice, given that the penis in question belongs to their son, not them.  I often wonder how parents with this mindset plan to answer their son, when he grows up and asks why they had the best part of his penis whacked off.

 


 

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#10 of 28 Old 01-15-2011, 03:30 PM
 
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Oh, I so feel your pain on this!  I wrote a thread kind of similar to this in September (you can search for it if you like).  The gist of it was that my sister didn't want to circ my nephew and her dh never expressed an interest until she was basically in full blown labor.  Then he pressured her to have it done.  She called me crying.  She cried and cried and he didn't even care.

 

The fact that she let it happen will forever color how I view her (to be sure I still love her, she's my best friend, but she just let it happen), but I will never be able to forgive my BIL for not only what he put my DN through, but for how he treated my sister as well.  She used to be the selected guardian for my kids if dh and I passed away, but I can't turn them over to her so long as she's married to him.

 

All that to say, I understand.  And I'm so sorry.


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#11 of 28 Old 01-15-2011, 04:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post
Because it's their choice. ???? What does that mean? :( :( :(


I don't get that.  I really don't.  Why isn't it their son's choice?  They can do anything they want to her dh's penis...that's THEIRS.  Their son's penis is HIS.  I'd ask her that...  And then try to let it go.  As for dealing with the emotional pain, I don't know.  I still feel weird about my SIL because she chose to circ my nephews.


Mama to Nell (11/15/06) and Maggie (10/9/10) . AFTER 2.5 YEARS, I AM AN AUNTIE!!! joy.gifHOORAY TEAR78 and welcome Anika and Brand New Baby Boy!!!!  Circumcision: the more you know, the worse it is; please leave the decision up to your son!

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#12 of 28 Old 01-15-2011, 05:20 PM
 
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I'm married to a very much intact 47 year old man - and the first thing he said when I first became pregnant was "there is no way we are having the baby circ'd if it's a boy." At the time, I really had never given much thought to the whole issue, I had never had children of my own and was not equipped with a penis, so the thought never came to my mind. My husband, who is about as bearishly manly as they come has no problem telling anyone who asks his feelings on this - how he was so lucky to come from a family (Irish Canadian Maritimers) who kept all their boys intact (and by the way, that's a total of 18 boys). The sensitivity issue is the biggest to him - he's a man, of course that's important to him! And it should be.....

 

I think it all boils down to what has become the "norm" throughout certain parts of history, and things like this go in waves. There has been a long period in recent history that supports the idea that circumcision is almost a given - along with other unsavory practices like routine induction and scheduled "convenience" c-sections and handing out formula to new mothers instead of breast pumps.

 

I really feel for you - it is quite obvious that this is weighing down on you in a huge way. Sadly, all you can do is attempt to educate you sister, give her the tools to educate her husband and offer answers and guidance if asked.

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#13 of 28 Old 01-15-2011, 10:48 PM
 
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Why don't you send her this letter word for word? Tell her it is a journal entry or something if she would get upset about it being posted on a forum. It quite eloquently describes your feelings and sorrow. Then you will have told her everything you can about how it makes you feel. Just a thought, but I was moved by your post, and she may be able to feel your true thoughts with it. Anyway... I agree it is not her choice, and it never should be anyone's choice.... maybe someday...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post

I am the mother of an intact one year old boy. When we found out we were expecting, my husband said "There is no question, he's  getting circ'd" - and we fought and went round and round...well, in the end, I won and we're SO glad. Now that I look back, I realize that there was never a chance that we were going to do something like that to any kid of ours...but at the time it felt really real, like I really was the only thing standing between my son and the knife.

 

Flash forward to present day. My sister is expecting. Oh god...I get tears in my eyes as I'm typing this. She is expecting a boy and is due toward the end of March. They're going to circ him. She hasn't said so outright, but when I saw them this past weekend and asked if they'd reviewed all the info I sent her...they said "Yes, but Robert (her DH) has both uncirc'd and circ'd men in the family so he knows all about it and it's a personal choice" and they went on, just saying more stuff like that...not saying outright that they;d do it...but his face, the things he was saying, etc were saying "There is no way my son won't be circ'd".

 

I know it's none of my business...but I also know my sister wouldn't be doing it if it were just her. She doesn't really stand up to him I don't think and their relationship is so new. They will only have been dating a year or so when this child is BORN...and I know they are trying to hard to be good parents, to make the right choices...but they are also young and I think scared and I don't know...just trying to do "what they think they should".  I can tell they care and I know that no kid can ask for more than that, for more than parents who care really intensely about doing right by them....but damn it they are going to cut this kids penis and I can't get over it.

 

 

 

So, the reason I'm here....

 

How do you handle the deep pain you feel when someone close to you is going to make this choice and you know there is nothing you can do about it? They don't realize what they are doing, they just have no idea...I have nightmares about my poor, loving, wonderful sister, looking down into the bloody diaper of her precious son and wondering why it was so damned important to cut his penis. I don't want her to feel regret..I don't want her to feel pain and more than anything, I feel like I'm fighting for my poor nephew, who has no voice in this matter even though it's his penis.

 

I feel anguish, I feel deep remorse for not being able to do anything. I feel powerless to help this child. What do I do? How do I get over this? I've tried EVERYTHING...the MDC stuff, the really great, concise lists, link to the "regret" thread, articles, etc. Nothing penetrates the wall of "it's our choice". They aren't circing for any reason...they just ARE. Because it's their choice. ???? What does that mean? :( :( :(

 

My last ditch effort was sending her a message tonight that was basically me begging her...BEGGING, outright, to reconsider. I even sent her a circ video...not the really bad one, I'm not trying to traumatize her or guilt her...I'm just trying to make her SEE.

 

How do I get past this. How do I let this go. It's choking me, the knowledge that she's going to do this...it's choking me and making me feel a desperate, crazy feeling. I want to scream, I want to cry....I hold my own son and am just so glad he's intact....

 

How do I let go and move on happily, supporting my sister and loving my nephew without feeling guilt that I couldn't save his penis? Because that's what I need to do....if I push this any further, I'll be hurting my relationship with my sister and I don't want that, she really needs her sister in all of this, she's in way over her head, she's going to have to send this baby to daycare at less than six weeks old and the whole thing is just going to be really stressful..I want to be there for her, I don't want to alienate her...how do I do this?

 

 

Thanks for reading this far....it feels good to get this off my chest. I'm just so torn inside...I feel such heartache.



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#14 of 28 Old 01-16-2011, 12:59 AM
 
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I had the same issue with my best friend. I provided her with all the information I had. I figured being a single mom without having the dad in the picture might make it easier as she was the only one that needed to be informed. She did it anyways, her reason "Iv never seen one and that would just be weird". I cant help but see the hypocrisy as she only buys all natural toys and is not vaccinating. After she had it done I told her I wouldn't be changing his diaper, not because I thought he was gross but because it made me angry at her for having done that to him. It has affected our relationship, I know she knows the biological function and purpose and chose to destroy it because although she had never seen one she thought it would be weird.  I hoped after he was born and she looked at her perfect son she wouldn't be able to do it, I was wrong. 

The only thing that has helped me is time and distance. It still makes me quite sad and angry but I cannot change it. I can only accept what has happened.

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#15 of 28 Old 01-18-2011, 12:00 PM
 
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My sister cut both her sons and frankly I have to just compartmentalize and block it out.  It makes me physically ill if I don't.


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#16 of 28 Old 01-18-2011, 12:33 PM
 
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My sister had her son first, and didn't circ, so there was no issue, and it really helped out when it came time for me to have my son.  So no advice when it comes to family members, but when it comes to others I either don't ask 'cause I don't want to know, or I do what a PP said and compartmentalize and block it out.

 

You've done your best, and now it is on your sister and the baby's father.  I hope you can come to some kind of terms with it and maintain your relationship with your sister as hard as it may be :hug


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#17 of 28 Old 01-18-2011, 12:51 PM
 
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He'll be okay. At least tell her to make sure they give him something to prevent him from being in too much pain. After that I'm sure he'll grow up living in ignorant bliss like most circumcised males.

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#18 of 28 Old 01-18-2011, 01:59 PM
 
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My sister cut both her sons and frankly I have to just compartmentalize and block it out.  It makes me physically ill if I don't.



Yep. My brother has one boy and 3 girls. His one son is cut. And it makes me sick to think about it. I think that is why the universe gave me 4 boys and only 1 girl.


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#19 of 28 Old 01-18-2011, 05:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billikengirl View Post

My sister cut both her sons and frankly I have to just compartmentalize and block it out.  It makes me physically ill if I don't.



Yep. My brother has one boy and 3 girls. His one son is cut. And it makes me sick to think about it. I think that is why the universe gave me 4 boys and only 1 girl.


Man, if this is the way it works, I hope I get all boys!!!!  I LOVE being a mama to a boy!

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#20 of 28 Old 01-18-2011, 08:09 PM
 
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I understand the pain and anger. My sister-in-law and brother circ'ed their son, one cousin and his wife, now one cousin and her husband are going to. For a good point my sister and her husband didn't, though their Dr. told them to retract to clean (angry face at the Dr.), but she listened to the correct information and stopped.

 

Now, I had started my conviction about circumcision before my son was born. 5 months before he was born. When he was born I didn't even have a choice about it. He was born with Bladder Exstrophy which effected his penis.

So he goes through a super long surgery with another scheduled next month just to put him back to HALF normal. And all these FOLKS are taking a perfectly normal human being and putting them through an unethical, immoral surgery when we are going through grief and pain for a semblance of normal.

And I have all these mad and angry words coupled with the pain of what is happening to these kids.

 

So, as these boys grow up, I am going to be Awesome Auntie AnnieNimIty, best friends, they will play with my kids etc. Then when they are of age, they are going to get information and support and financial backing so that if they want they can sue those who circumcised them/allowed it to happen when their parent's had all the information.

 

And I know they have all the information, because I gave it to them.

 

That is how I can get past the roaring emotions.

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#21 of 28 Old 05-22-2011, 09:37 PM
 
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Just a Happy Update.  I went to visit my sister and my new nephew this weekend and he is staying intact.  Not because she was able to convince her BF to not circ but because he is on unemployment and here in Canada you have to pay for circ out of pocket.  He didn't have the $300 it would cost.


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#22 of 28 Old 05-22-2011, 09:57 PM
 
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joy.gif: I am sorry he is unemployed right now but so thankful that he is staying intact. Hopefully down the road they wont go ahead with it if he can afford it.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#23 of 28 Old 05-23-2011, 09:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post

Just a Happy Update.  I went to visit my sister and my new nephew this weekend and he is staying intact.  Not because she was able to convince her BF to not circ but because he is on unemployment and here in Canada you have to pay for circ out of pocket.  He didn't have the $300 it would cost.


Yay!

 

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#24 of 28 Old 05-24-2011, 10:00 AM
 
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Sorry about your sister's BF's situation, but I am really glad it saved their little guy.  I, too, hope that they get used to his intact status and start to see it as totaly normal.

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#25 of 28 Old 05-26-2011, 04:52 AM
 
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Whoo-hoo! The universe was listening.


Mindie, wife to Mark, not-so-crunchy mom to Dylan (4/04); Devon (6/06); Dorothy (9/07); Derek (12/19/09); Daniel (12/18/10); Newbie D (2/22/12)

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#26 of 28 Old 06-02-2011, 06:03 PM
 
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hi Averysmomma -

I haven't searched the post, but guess that the baby is born and this saga has an ending. I still feel compelled to respond as this is an important subject. If I had it to do I would ask my sister if it would have been OK if our parents had decided to do the genital mutilation of having her clitoris removed at birth. If we quit calling it circumcision and called it genital mutilation, which it is, I think the point would be better made. I'm guessing, sisters response would be that it wouldn't have been OK. Then I would say that you are doing the same thing to your son in having foreskin removed, are you willing to significantly traumatize him and effect the quality of his sex life and is that really yours to have say over? Let him make his own decision when he is old enough to do so.

The sense of helplessness in watching something painful happen without having the sense that you can effect change can be very hard to endure. I hope this had a happier ending than the one you anticipated when you wrote the post.

Mamaoferic

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#27 of 28 Old 06-06-2011, 07:28 AM
 
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You said it in your original post....just hold on tight to your son and thank God you had the wisdom to keep him intact. He is a lucky little boy and you should be proud of yourself.  I sympathize with you.   It's hard.  It's really hard. I feel that way in general about all the sweet little boys in this country who have to undergo the knife. I want to scream too. I want to ask every pregnant mother if she knows better, if she's aware.

 

Someone said something I agree with strongly. It's the women, the mothers, who have to stand up for their sons. You can't rely on men to do it.  It's the only way.   A mother's  instinct to protect her infant must override any fear or intimidation from husbands. They will get over it.  


:
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#28 of 28 Old 06-06-2011, 08:11 AM
 
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Ask her to check out Circumcision Decision-Maker. It will take her through each of her reasons for wanting circumcision one at a time and then give her some expert opinion. It also has a lot of information on penis anatomy, how the foreskin develops, circumcision, and care of the intact penis including washing instructions.

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