May I pepper out a few questions? Making sure I am solid in my stance.... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 17 Old 01-01-2012, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We have 3 girls and are pregnant with #4, don't know the sex.  We have found out with the other 3, so we never made it far down the circ road discussion.  We live in a decently small Kansas town, so our circ rate here, last I dug, was still 85%-ish.  DH is circ-ed.  In the back of my head, without any real research, I always kind of thought I wouldn't if I had a boy.  This was based on no other knowledge that cutting or sticking needles or anything on my new baby is not something I can comprehend.  I also figured I would have a battle with my quite conservative DH.  So we decided to wait with this one.  I have done some research and after not really finding a reason to circ, was pretty well set that I would take a stand.  Tonight I brought it up with DH, who said he does not feel strongly either way, but also cannot really imagine anyone taking a knife to his son's penis without a damn good reason and agrees with me that the "reasons" out there are are not worthwhile.  So I was pleasantly surprised that he was on board and actually agreed.  Yea DH!

 

So now I am thinking through it.  Our area circ, for the most part.  So obviously I need to make sure our wishes are known at the hospital.  But what do I need to make sure our Ped knows?  I have read a lot on here about Peds not really knowing what to do with an uncirced penis, and want to make sure I have a good set of knowledge.  Should I preemptively dump that on her, or wait until something arises that makes me concerned she will try to prematurely retract?  Our Ped is pretty mainstream, BUT has been a friend of ours for 20 yrs and is Very respectful of our decisions.  Our youngest two have health conditions that are autoimmune related.  I told her we were thinking of delaying/selectively vaxing this next one and she gave me all of the reasons she thinks vaxing would be good and why we should, but finished with..."all that said, you are the mom and you are researching and have good judgment, so if your mom gut tells you to wait or not to vax in order to sleep at night, I will totally respect and support you".  So that is the type of Dr she is.  I just want to make sure she knows what not to do.  Do most peds know how to manage a non circed penis now, or is it still not general info? 

 

Does anyone know what the current circ rates are per region?  I am just curious how our area is coming along.  I feel oddly nervous not circing, but confident it is the right thing.  I have never dealt with an infant penis before since we have girls.  I never knew I had a paranoia of doing it "right"  I have this odd fear of my insane conservative inlaws trying to retract when babysitting for no reason than they will think we are nuts for not circing.

 

All this said, it may be a girl, lol.  If nothing else, I have a new respect for DH as a dad. :)

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#2 of 17 Old 01-01-2012, 10:32 PM
 
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just wash it like a finger.

i'd wait to discuss this with the ped. make sure you have a boy, first.

and focus on getting through the hurdle of the hospital birth (assuming you are having a hospital birth). THIS is where you need to let *everyone* know you do NOT consent to circumcision. tell the OB, tell the other OBs, tell all the nurses. keep your new baby with you, accompany him to all "weigh ins" and other "visits" down the hall. you can tell the hospital staff not to retract, if you think they would be that uninformed (i don't know that they would be... but that's where i would start... rather than worrying about WBVs at this point).

it's funny that it's actually considered "assulative" to retract a newborn baby's foreskin. yet it is culturally normal to retract and *remove* it.

circumcision is weird, weird stuff.

simply stand your ground and it will be fine.

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#3 of 17 Old 01-01-2012, 10:54 PM
 
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I agree with PP about staying with your new baby and making sure it is well known you are choosing to keep your [theoretical] boy intact. Our son is as whole as the day he was born and we haven't had to care for his penis in any "different" way. Once he is older and starting to PL, we will teach him to dab the tip of his penis with toilet paper after peeing. [Like we do with our folds of skin.] That is all.
 

And here is a great post from DrMomma/Peaceful Parenting that many people don't talk about - how circumcision affects women and families. [NSFW. Warning- photos of adult penises.]

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#4 of 17 Old 01-02-2012, 12:02 AM
 
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Agree with pp's about waiting to talk to her after he is born. The only thing you need to make sure of with her is that she is not to manipulate his penis and if there is any issues you will let her know but otherwise leave it alone.

At the hospital you or someone you trust should stay with him if possible. If something happens where he has to be there without someone like my dd did because she was under the bili lights then you should make a little card in big letters that says "Do not Circ or retract" so that no mistakes are made. While very rare it can and has happened that a baby was circed without consent. Not something I would loose sleep over but I would take steps to make sure my ds wasnt one of the few rare cases.




 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#5 of 17 Old 01-03-2012, 10:57 AM
 
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Hooray for you and DH! You sound like us - we didn't have strong feelings either way, but couldn't really think of a good reason TO do it (17 years ago, before we Internet access). It was more of a question of "Why should we?", when folks too often ask "Why shouldn't we?".

 

Often it's the OB who does circumcisions (this varies by hospital), so talk to whoever will be at delivery.

 

If you do pre-registration at the hospital, go through the forms carefully - often the circumcision constent form is automatically in the pile. I would write "NO CIRCUMCISION" in big letters across the top of the form (rather than just throw it away). That should take care of you at the hospital.

 


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#6 of 17 Old 01-05-2012, 06:18 PM
 
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I am in Ohio, and I believe that our circumcision rate here is still about 90%.  I have 3 sons who are all intact ages 9,7, and 1, and I can tell you with our oldest, we were absolutely badgered in the hospital about getting it done.  I had it in my chart that we were not circumcising, but still got asked by everyone who came into the room.  With my 2nd son, we were not asked as much, but the resident who was going to discharge us made it seem like he needed to be circumcised as a condition of being discharged, which was ridiculous.  With our 3rd son, we were never even asked.  So I feel like even though the rate is high that the tide is slowly turning.  That being said, I have never had any issues with bad advice from pediatricians in the area or trying to retract at appointments, so you might be pleasantly surprised.  I would have it clearly written in the chart when you deliver, and I like the idea of writing NO CIRCUMCISION if they try to give you a consent form for it.  BTW, none of my sons has ever had an issue at all with having an intact penis, and my older 2 sons do know that most of their friends are probably circumcised, but they just feel sorry for them.  I think that they will grow up to be proud of their whole bodies.

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#7 of 17 Old 01-08-2012, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I brought it up with our ped and was a little bummed by the discussion.  I really like our ped....while she is very conservative, she also is very respectful of our decisions.  She firmly believes in vaxing, but firmly supports our decisions to delay/selectively vax, etc.  I asked her if there was a medical benefit to circing, she said no. I was thinking great.  I said, good, because we are thinking we will not circ this baby if it a boy.  I told her we just could not find a compelling reason to, so doing it if we were neutral seemed silly.  I was just trying to keep it light, since her opinion realllly didn't matter since we knew we woulnd't circ, but I was just curious her stance I guess.  So she replied with...."well if you are neutral, my advice is always to make them look like their daddy's".  I told her we really didn't care, were pretty firm in our decision then, and after having 2 kids with a mess of painful medical issues, the thought of doing one that was not needed was just not something we felt good about.  Her reply..."if you are making the decision based on pain to the baby, don't.  I use a local anesthetic, it is fast, I do a great circ, we give baby a paci with sugar water, and literally, maybe 1-2% even cry...don't even let that be a factor".  DAMN no wonder people listen to Drs.  I had to leave and shake that off for 30 minutes before I retalked myself into not circing.  She went on about how it is the norm here, etc.  We aren't circing, she is ultimately just fine with is, and I am not concerned in the long run.  I was just hoping she wouldn't be so, i dunno, like that i guess.

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#8 of 17 Old 01-08-2012, 08:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeChRi View Post

I brought it up with our ped and was a little bummed by the discussion.  I really like our ped....while she is very conservative, she also is very respectful of our decisions.  She firmly believes in vaxing, but firmly supports our decisions to delay/selectively vax, etc.  I asked her if there was a medical benefit to circing, she said no. I was thinking great.  I said, good, because we are thinking we will not circ this baby if it a boy.  I told her we just could not find a compelling reason to, so doing it if we were neutral seemed silly.  I was just trying to keep it light, since her opinion realllly didn't matter since we knew we woulnd't circ, but I was just curious her stance I guess.  So she replied with...."well if you are neutral, my advice is always to make them look like their daddy's".  I told her we really didn't care, were pretty firm in our decision then, and after having 2 kids with a mess of painful medical issues, the thought of doing one that was not needed was just not something we felt good about.  Her reply..."if you are making the decision based on pain to the baby, don't.  I use a local anesthetic, it is fast, I do a great circ, we give baby a paci with sugar water, and literally, maybe 1-2% even cry...don't even let that be a factor".  DAMN no wonder people listen to Drs.  I had to leave and shake that off for 30 minutes before I retalked myself into not circing.  She went on about how it is the norm here, etc.  We aren't circing, she is ultimately just fine with is, and I am not concerned in the long run.  I was just hoping she wouldn't be so, i dunno, like that i guess.

right, because there's no money to be made from leaving the kid looking like himself censored.gif.  You're right - no wonder people listen to docs.  She's pretty convincing angry.gif.

 

Sus

 


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#9 of 17 Old 01-08-2012, 08:48 PM
 
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now you know why doctors talk people in to it.

she does a "great circ"? pretty proud of her work, and gets, what, $300 for each one.

"make him" look like daddy? "make him"?? uh, probably already does if it's a biological child. "make him" undergo plastic surgery as a neonate, just like happened to his father.

and do it because "it's the norm", everybody else is getting talked into it by their kids doctor, too.

blech. may i just say "yuck" that SOME doctors are so pushy about circumcision. THIS is the harm they do!!

 

part of me -- a big huge part -- says that you brought on this whole conversation yourself by bringing this up with the doctor in the first place, when there was no need to discuss it.

 

but the other part of me says good for you to have uncovered your doctor's true motivations here. 

 

and the cynic in me, in large part informed by reading the CAC forum here on MDC, would warn you to watch out for this doctor to do a retraction on your son, recommend retraction to "wash" or otherwise mess with his genitalia in such a way that causes infection, thus "proving" the "need" for circumcision after all. i hope not. but i would watch out for it, especially if she thinks that by your bringing up this topic with her, you are still "on the fence" and could be persuaded.

 

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#10 of 17 Old 01-08-2012, 08:57 PM
 
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If you need to be more firm in your opinion, you might google "sex as nature intended it" (has sexually explicit images) for a good explanation about why the state of being circumcised is bad itself, regardless of how pleasant the actual circumcision process is.
 

 

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#11 of 17 Old 01-08-2012, 09:02 PM
 
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I wouldnt allow this Dr touch touch my ds's penis at all at any time simply because she obviously knows nothing about the intact penis other than cutting it off.

Sugar water as pain relief is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of, yes I have seen the "studies" but I am not buying it. If it was so effective then adult men could have circs done with it and obviously they cannot since they have to go under GA for it. The only difference is a man can fight while a baby is helpless to defend himself.

When she says she does a great circ it sounds bad enough but what she is really saying is that she does a great penis cutting job. :puke

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#12 of 17 Old 01-09-2012, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tropicana View Post


 

part of me -- a big huge part -- says that you brought on this whole conversation yourself by bringing this up with the doctor in the first place, when there was no need to discuss it.

 

but the other part of me says good for you to have uncovered your doctor's true motivations here. 


 



Oh I totally brought it on myself.:)  And kind of knew I would when I brought it up.  I was mostly curious her stance.  And we have worked together long enough that I knew if I said "we are not circing" she would let it go and never say anything buy a-okay.   But I kind of wanted to know how that convo goes with Drs here, if that makes sense? 

 

The convo that followed was her just saying she has never seen a complication from not circing, baby would be fine, just don't retract it. Honestly, in my 2 youngest dd's life, I think she has removed the diaper twice ever.  Once I take a stand on something, she has Never questioned or pushed.  But when asked she will always tell me what she thinks.

 

It mostly makes me sad for most the women that don't research on their own and trust the Dr.  If I wasn't me, I would have been sold.

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#13 of 17 Old 01-09-2012, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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And yes, I left wondering....what the hell is a "great" circ?

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#14 of 17 Old 01-09-2012, 09:13 AM
 
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I don't think I could go to a dr. that did them.  I mean, I'd always be thinking of what to say to try to get them to stop.  Seems like this dr. isn't interested in stopping though.  Maybe at some point you could bring up the ethics of it?  Yeah, I couldn't keep going to them.  I know that its not always that easy & while thinking about this thread, I realzied that the family doc we go to may do them. So, just my ramblings.

 

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#15 of 17 Old 01-09-2012, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think I could go to a dr. that did them.  I mean, I'd always be thinking of what to say to try to get them to stop.  Seems like this dr. isn't interested in stopping though.  Maybe at some point you could bring up the ethics of it?  Yeah, I couldn't keep going to them.  I know that its not always that easy & while thinking about this thread, I realzied that the family doc we go to may do them. So, just my ramblings.

 

Sus



Our ped is our family doc as well.  I did some looking to find a Dr that was non-circing.  Unfortunately, in small town Kansas, we are out of luck. :)  As resigned as it sounds, I feel like our best case is what we have, and that is a Dr that (once we stand firm on something) never questions it and respects the choice.  Part of my loyalty probably also lies there because she saw us through 18 months of a bad health situation with my youngest, during which she went way outside of her comfort level working with a naturopath, a BF/allergy specialist in another state that had Very different views, wrote letters to needed parties regarding a vax debate I was having etc.  I think the reason I was so disappointed by the circ thing is because I had become used to her moving left of center for us, and this kind of blindsided me. 

 

What I really wish, is that we didn't have a nutty 90% circ rate here....blows my mind. 

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#16 of 17 Old 01-09-2012, 03:11 PM
 
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Our ped is our family doc as well.  I did some looking to find a Dr that was non-circing.  Unfortunately, in small town Kansas, we are out of luck. :)  As resigned as it sounds, I feel like our best case is what we have, and that is a Dr that (once we stand firm on something) never questions it and respects the choice.  Part of my loyalty probably also lies there because she saw us through 18 months of a bad health situation with my youngest, during which she went way outside of her comfort level working with a naturopath, a BF/allergy specialist in another state that had Very different views, wrote letters to needed parties regarding a vax debate I was having etc.  I think the reason I was so disappointed by the circ thing is because I had become used to her moving left of center for us, and this kind of blindsided me. 

 

What I really wish, is that we didn't have a nutty 90% circ rate here....blows my mind. 


well, maybe YOU can help change HER mind or at least soften her to the possibilities of intact being BETTER... over time.

good luck with that, though!

 

 

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#17 of 17 Old 01-09-2012, 04:58 PM
 
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Quote:
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What I really wish, is that we didn't have a nutty 90% circ rate here....blows my mind. 


I know it seems a little hard right now to buck the trend and go against what everyone else is telling you is right, but when you do hold that perfect baby in your arms, and then watch him grow up healthy and strong, you are going to not only just be "ok" with going against the grain, you are going to feel damn proud of yourself.  I promise.  :-)

 

Assuming you have a boy of course. LOL

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