My son is not circumcised. The night he was born, my father came in to my room after the birth and questioned me on whether or not DS was to be circumcised. I told him we were not doing it. He turned irate and began screaming at me because we weren't circumcising OUR son. He accused DH of brainwashing me. He went down the whole list of why we should do it and that we were setting DS up for lifelong agony and lifelong medical problems. I sat in my hospital bed in shock. I was 6 hours out of major surgery. I had a C-section and had my tubes tied. More importantly, my son was in the NICU. He had a medical emergency two minutes after his birth and got whisked away to the NICU. At that point in time, I had no idea what was wrong with him. So, there was my dad screaming at me for not circumcising my son while I lay in my hospital bed recovering from major surgery, and scared to death about my son and not knowing what was wrong with him. What an asshole, right? The irony is that my father is a doctor and is not circumcised!!!! Anyway, I got enough energy to tell him to back off, DS is not HIS child, and DH and I make the decisions, not him. END OF STORY. I will never forget that and will never forgive him for that. I almost cut him out of my life over that. I know the OP was much gentler in her approach and our situations are complete opposites, but the idea is the same. You have to know where to draw the line with people, especially family. Honestly, it is not her business what her brother and SIL decide to do about their son's penis. I don't agree with it either, but it's THEIR decision. OP, I don't think there is anything more you should do. If your brother and SIL wanted you to be part of the decision-making process, you would have been. Unsolicited advice, preaching, whatever you want to call it does not come across well, and usually makes people want to get away from those folks who do that kind of thing. I don't like that or those types of people, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I am sorry for what you went through.
However, normal rational debate does happen between individuals all the time and nothing like that happens.
That's not what I am trying to do, nor have I been doing that. In the past this was all a random series of hypothetical conversations and sometimes among groups. I was now trying to get creative about one conversation now that they are actually having a boy. One that has a shred of a chance of being effective because it will be the only time I bring it up.
If his primary issue is the looks and how that will affect his son, here are a few ways to apporach it:
If RIC having a difference is so much of a problem, how in the world did it ever become common? The first few circumcised men must have had an awful time back when the norm was intact...
RIC is not that common these days, so his son will have many intact and circumcised peers...
Does he think violating his son's human rights is outweighed by what he specualtes his son will want when he is a man?
If he pulls the silly but I am circumcised so heneeds to be argument, then you might point out that your brother is taller, has more pubic hair, has a large penis, etc, yest he is not suggesting that he shave his pubes or glue hair on his sons pubes, is he? Further, suppose your brother had lost an arm...would he propose to amputate his son's arm to save him from whatever he is worried about?
If being the same is important to your brother, suggest that he has another, better alternative that will not violate his son's human rights...your brother can restore his foreskin.
This is very telling:
As you say he is not willing to discuss this rationally and you have a tough job. to help with that tough job, a great set of tools can be found in the book, Crucial Conversations. I highly recommend it.
Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, it is a how far does one go kind of question. I am only going to go so far. I have tried with other relatives. It seems my entire extended family are pretty unsympathetic to human rights. :(
So if the chances are high that it is not going to work, is it worth my stress to even bother at this point... Ah well.
Moon Jelly, I'm sorry you are going through this. It's so hard when people we love have children and make decisions we feel personally are not in the best interests of their child. I don't have any advice, just empathy for you and for the baby.
I don't know if my brother's kids are circed or not (he kind of checked out of the family when he was married to his now ex wife and we didn't see them much as babies) but I know she didn't breastfeed. I got, "My kids are all lactose intolerant." And as a lactivist and LC, this was very difficult for me to see those poor babies (two of whom where eventually put on predigested formula because they were puking up all their regular formula and not gaining weight, loaded with body wide eczema and sick all the time) being given this brown stuff in a bottle. I did talk to my SIL gently and briefly before the first of their children were born, and she shrugged and said, "I couldn't with my first kid, I probably won't be able to with them." When I offered her free lactation consults, no limit any time she needed me, if she wanted, she never took me up on it, and the next time I saw the first baby, I got the "The kid's lactose intolerant, I can't breastfeed." (Even though I wasn't going to ask, as I had already been told by my mother, who was also upset by the decision.) It's hard to see. I can empathize. (My brother's kids now all drink cow milk and eat cheese like its going out of style (isn't it?) and lactose intolerance from birth is not only always lifelong, but is still not a reason not to breastfeed. I just wish my SIL had owned her decision.) Your brother can't give an excuse, though, if he circs that baby. He'll have to own the decision. It's still so sad to see.
I wish I had advice, but I don't. I just know how hard it is.
I am sorry but I have to ask why you are here and why you felt the need to post a reply to me in this thread.
This forum is ANTI-CIRC. Where else am I supposed to discuss my frustrations about this practice? People have different degrees of how strongly they feel about the issue, and that is OK, but that doesn't mean you have to come in here simply for the purpose of saying that while you have appropriate level of anti-circ, mine is too much.
This just makes you seem as if either 1) you actually support the practice, or 2) you don't care about circ one way or the other, you just want to go around and stop discussion and debate about things.
If you actually want to debate whether circ is OK or not, this is a strange way of going about it.
I am here because I wanted to offer you advice that tended to be towards saying your piece and washing your hands of it. The rest of my posts wound up being in reply to another poster's response to me. I sincerely apologize for a derailing of your thread.
Now, if you would look at the other posts from me in this thread, I did give you advice. The first was, yes, a call to consider backing off now that you had said all you had to say to your brother and sister-in-law. Later I was humbled and tried to be more helpful.
So, your claim that I came here SIMPLY to argue is extremely far off and suggests you didn't bother reading any of my other posts but the one you quoted here.
And... your situation has been on my mind. The idea of bribery has come up many a time in this thread.
I think, if you have enough money you can part with, you should. If they have no real moral/emotional commitment to circing and are just going with the flow, bribery really ought to do the trick. Maybe won't immediately change mindsets, but it will make sure the basic goal here is reached.
|8 members and 8,270 guests|
|Albertomrogers , jamesmorrow , katelove , lisak1234 , mary10 , thefragile7393 , vanerubio416 , zebra15|
|Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.|