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#1 of 22 Old 11-23-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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In need of help.

Hi there,

I am a mom of three, soon to be four. My first child was a boy. I was ignorant and had him circumcised. A decision I regret greatly. He suffered penile adhesions, numerous meatal ulcers, and meatal stenosis. I swore I would never subject another boy to this surgery. Thankfully my next two babies were girls prior to my divorce. I am now remarried and having another little one. This is my husband's first child. I am literally due any minute and just waiting to go into labor. We had discussed circumcision briefly early on in my pregnancy and he didn't say much and basically just acted as if he wouldn't have much to say on the subject either way. Then he brought it up again 2 days ago and said he felt it was just "something that should be done and gotten over with".
I am an ICU nurse and he is an attorney. I presented him with all of the medical facts that debunk many of the myths that support circumcision verbally. However, I do not have all of my links and research that I used to have years ago. My son is now almost 10. This morning he brought it up to me and apparently he has been doing some research of his own on the internet. His reasons for wanting this done are 1.He read that little boys who are intact have a higher risk of UTI and 2. He read that they have an increased risk of penile cancer. I again verbally told him what I know to be true in regards to those myths.
However, he is an attorney, research is his bread and butter. He is going to need to see facts from some reputable medical journals/studies not just a blog or opinion site. I am going to protect my little boy no matter what but I don't want this to be a huge issue between the two of us. If anyone has time to link me to some information that I can show him this afternoon it would be greatly appreciated. I could go into labor at any point and I don't want to have to fight with my husband during what should be such a happy time. Also, he will not watch a video.
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#2 of 22 Old 11-23-2014, 03:51 PM
 
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I'm so sorry mama. I've heard of situations like this. Just stand your ground, as hard as that seems to be. He should have to prove to you why something should be done not you prove why he should be left alone. Also, I've read of fathers who were mad about it not happening, that they eventually get over it.

Would he listen to other attorneys? arclaw.org
Www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org
I've heard some moms say they'll put on a circ video with the volume all the way up when a person they want to know how horrible it is won't budge, when your husband is close by.

He's cut, yes? Here's an piece that will help you understand why he wants his kid cut too (it's not for him): http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

From a jewish doctor? http://www.west-info.eu/the-jewish-d...-circumcision/

Ok, that's all I have time for.

Best wishes,
Sus
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#3 of 22 Old 11-23-2014, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you. He disagrees with me but has agreed not to have him circumcised at birth and to revisit it when he is old enough to have true anesthesia and pain meds. I did a ton of research this morning and pulled up numerous medical journals disproving the studies that had him concerned. Unfortunately all he kept seizing on in them was that they didn't prove or disprove the link between circumcision and penile cancer or UTI. He adamantly refused to watch a circ video. I told him no, that if he was going to subject his innocent newborn to a procedure he was going to watch it. I turned on the video and turned the volume up so he could hear the poor baby crying and choking. I told him that it was a cosmetic procedure and that doing this to his son at 2 days old without anesthesia was akin to torture. So he finally backed down and agreed to revisit it when he is old enough for true anesthia. I sincerely hope that once he realizes what a non-issue his son being intact is that he will let it go.
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#4 of 22 Old 11-23-2014, 04:58 PM
 
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If a girl might get UTIs is it a good idea to cut off her clitoral hood?
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#5 of 22 Old 11-23-2014, 05:02 PM
 
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And yeah, after looking at an intact penis hopefully he'll have my same experience of looking at it and being able to not even imagine that it's a good idea to cut off half its skin. It will look perfect, just as was intended.

He probably would feel defensive of himself or his parents if he heard about how it was actually performed or the sexual functions that are lost with circ. Best just to leave it alone for now, I think.
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#6 of 22 Old 11-23-2014, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If a girl might get UTIs is it a good idea to cut off her clitoral hood?
Oh I know. I also asked him if he was a girl would he have her breasts removed at birth to prevent breast cancer later in life. It is ridiculous and cosmetic and absolutely without merit.

However, you have to understand that I am arguing with a man who argues for a living. I have to state my case and back it up and present it as one would in court. He won't listen to emotion or anything other than cold hard facts.

I'm glad that I bought myself and baby boy some time at the very least. He will be coming home intact and hopefully his Daddy will let it go and not continue to push the issue.
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#7 of 22 Old 11-24-2014, 03:03 PM
 
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I know you know. It's frustrating isn't it? I hope he lets it go too. Maybe he will since you keep showing him those facts. Then he can save face by just saying nothing. I mean, if it's about facts only this whole deal would be taken care of in about 15 minutes of reading on his part. Hang in there. Peaceful vibes to you, and thank you for protecting your son. He's a lucky boy.
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#8 of 22 Old 11-24-2014, 07:20 PM
 
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I got UTIs as a child. You can take antibiotics for them. They suck but they're not that big a deal. Kids get ear infections and the flu and other inconvenient but ultimately minor medical problems.

Surely he can agree that cutting off a whole body part is a pretty drastic way of preventing a possible (still rare) infection when a few days of penicillin can fix the problem just as well.
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#9 of 22 Old 11-24-2014, 08:04 PM
 
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Well, as much as he might want to believe it's not an emotion based decision on his part, it actually is. The facts he is researching support the fear based mentality that you must prevent all bad things from happening even if it's at the expense of losing something else. Most of us women have had a uti, sure they aren't fun, but i don't think any of us would voluntarily have a female circumcision to prevent a couple uti's throughout our life. Look up the age of diagnosis for penile cancer....its not the kiddos getting it. By the time hes old enough to know the facts and consent to removing a part of his body with anaesthesia, i highly doubt he will do it. Lastly, as an attorney, he has to watch the video. You can't make a judgment without witnessing the facts available and that's exactly what the video provides. If he's worried about what others will think, just tell him to blame out on you. No one in their right mind will cross a mamma bear with her newborn baby😊. Best wishes for your delivery, and you are doing the right thing advocating for your son's right to choose.
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#10 of 22 Old 11-25-2014, 03:35 AM
 
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He might also find this compelling:


http://rjolpi.richmond.edu/archive/Adler_Formatted.pdf


Best wishes. Remember, a lawyers job is to win, not sort out the facts. So be strong, he may have more skills in winning, but you have the logic and facts on your side.


Best
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#11 of 22 Old 11-25-2014, 05:54 AM
 
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Penile cancer is extremely rare - approx one in 100,000 - and as a PP it stated affects elderly men , who succumb to other ailments long before the cancer can have much affect. There is likely a link at www.cirp.org , but I don't have anything handy.

I'm glad that he has agreed to wait a bit - it should be until your son turns 18 and can decide for himself. You might consider to offer to pay for it at that time as a concession? It is extremely unlikely that he would choose to do it, and at least it would be his decision, not one forced on him by someone else. His penis, his choice.

Kudos to you for keeping your son whole!
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#12 of 22 Old 11-25-2014, 09:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 4timesamommy View Post
His reasons for wanting this done are 1.He read that little boys who are intact have a higher risk of UTI
That supposed risk has NEVER been demonstrated in a population where the parents and caregivers knew not to fiddle with the foreskin. The AAP now says only the owner should ever retract a foreskin. "Only clean what is seen" is in one of their pamphlets.

And UTI happen to girls 5 to 10 times as often. Why are antibiotics ok for girls, but for boys we should impose risky pleasure-reducing surgery? Meatal stenosis is a complication in up to a third of circumcised boys, pretty much unheard of in intact boys.

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He read that they have an increased risk of penile cancer.
Poorly controlled studies and incorrectly reported results suggest that. But the ones who get cancer almost always have phimosis, which again can be caused by fiddling with a child's foreskin. Smoking is a greater risk factor for penile cancer, and cancer occurs in old men with poor hygiene who have presumably at least enjoyed their normal penis for many decades. Why should a child suffer for something that good behavior can prevent and that HE can decide HIMSELF about in plenty of time to have an impact (if he's someday persuaded by the dubious links or new research)?

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He is going to need to see facts from some reputable medical journals/studies not just a blog or opinion site.
Make him read the enitre well-footnoted policy statement of the Dutch Medical Society: http://knmg.artsennet.nl/Publicaties...inors-2010.htm

"circumcision of male minors is a violation of children’s rights to autonomy and physical integrity. Contrary to popular belief, circumcision can cause complications – bleeding, infection, urethral stricture and panic attacks are particularly common. KNMG is therefore urging a strong policy of deterrence. KNMG is calling upon doctors to actively and insistently inform parents who are considering the procedure of the absence of medical benefits and the danger of complications."

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Originally Posted by 4timesamommy View Post
he will not watch a video.
Until he watches both a procedure video (with the stomach-curdling sound up) AND The Functions of the Foreskin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_dzeDvx2QA you should withdraw from even discussing it.

-Ron
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-Ron
HIS body, HIS decision.
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#13 of 22 Old 11-26-2014, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Great news! Little man was born on the 24th and today I am taking my WHOLE baby home. Would you believe no one ever even asked us if we wanted him circumcised? There was no solicitation of an unecessary procedure. I actually spoke to one of the nurses in private just to make sure my wishes were known and she said that they very rarely if ever have a circumcision in this hospital anymore. She said maybe 4 a month and that the parents have to go out of their way to have it done. So yay! My sweet baby boy is whole and he is perfect.
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#14 of 22 Old 11-26-2014, 08:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 4timesamommy View Post
Great news! Little man was born on the 24th and today I am taking my WHOLE baby home. Would you believe no one ever even asked us if we wanted him circumcised? There was no solicitation of an unecessary procedure. I actually spoke to one of the nurses in private just to make sure my wishes were known and she said that they very rarely if ever have a circumcision in this hospital anymore. She said maybe 4 a month and that the parents have to go out of their way to have it done. So yay! My sweet baby boy is whole and he is perfect.
Woohoo! Congrats!
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#15 of 22 Old 11-26-2014, 10:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 4timesamommy View Post
Great news! Little man was born on the 24th and today I am taking my WHOLE baby home. Would you believe no one ever even asked us if we wanted him circumcised? There was no solicitation of an unecessary procedure. I actually spoke to one of the nurses in private just to make sure my wishes were known and she said that they very rarely if ever have a circumcision in this hospital anymore. She said maybe 4 a month and that the parents have to go out of their way to have it done. So yay! My sweet baby boy is whole and he is perfect.


Bring back the old MDC
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#16 of 22 Old 11-26-2014, 02:58 PM
 
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Wonderful !! Lucky boy !! And kudos to you for keeping him him whole !!
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#17 of 22 Old 11-27-2014, 04:11 AM
 
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Great!

Great news!


Happy for you and him!


Have a great Thanksgiving!
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#18 of 22 Old 11-29-2014, 07:10 PM
 
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Congratulations! Welcome to the world, lilttle one.

With any luck, his dad will eventually see how normal whole male lasts are will be fine to leave it alone. And that's awesome that you bought yourself & him time. What a lucky boy you have there, with such a strong mama protecting him.

Best wishes & enjoy that sweet baby!
Sus
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#19 of 22 Old 12-01-2014, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Had our first pedi visit today. I was waiting and watching for the diaper check. He didn't fiddle with his foreskin at all. I was breathing a sigh of relief. The next words out of his mouth "Are you planning on having him circumcised?" My response "Definitely not." His response "No problem, I just have to ask." To which so responded "No, you don't HAVE to ask if someone wants surgery done on their newborn's genitals." He didn't say a word and just moved on with the examination.
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#20 of 22 Old 12-02-2014, 07:36 AM
 
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Nice response !! This is one of the things that really annoys me that they feel compelled to solicit surgery on newborn male genitalia. I think that if the medical staff were forbidden to ask, a lot of people would not make the effort, or even think to ask to have their son circumcised and the rate would drop substantially.
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#21 of 22 Old 12-03-2014, 10:14 PM
 
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Congratulations on your baby boy! What state are you in, if you don't mind saying? I'd love to live and work in an area where circ rates are that low!

Mom &  RN   intactivist.gif
Pardon the typos - CWOK (cat walking on keyboard)   signcirc1.gif

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#22 of 22 Old 12-04-2014, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you. I don't think circ rates are that low in my state as a whole. I don't know of a single friend who has left their baby boy intact. I purposefully chose to deliver in a town that is known for its more crunchy vibe/culture. The hospital there has a physician who is known for his VBACs and his support of VBACing moms. He is actually the head of their L&D department. It is the first hospital I've ever been to where the nurses pulled out olive oil to help prevent tearing during delivery. It was well worth the hour and a half drive to deliver there and see my OB for my prenatal care. I think that is what contributes to that hospitals low circ rates and the fact that they don't even ask you about it.
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