Mom at center of circumcision battle is arrested after months in hiding - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 29 Old 05-15-2015, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Mom at center of circumcision battle is arrested after months in hiding

http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_25805.shtml
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#2 of 29 Old 05-15-2015, 12:03 PM
 
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OMG - I am so sorry to hear that. If that idiot judge forces the issue , that poor child will be traumatized for ever. I feel so sad for his Mom. So much for the law and justice.
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#3 of 29 Old 05-15-2015, 05:45 PM
 
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I can't believe that a judge would order that on a 4.5 year old boy. That's SO disgusting. That poor poor woman and poor boy
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#4 of 29 Old 05-16-2015, 05:34 AM
 
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Perhaps she ought to challenge the ruling on the basis that the FGM laws do not provide equal protection to boys and protecting only one sex from genital mutilation is unconstitutional.

Kelly, a man who is proud to be intact!
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#5 of 29 Old 05-16-2015, 11:14 AM
 
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Sure, but a constitutional legal battle takes years. Meanwhile, dad now has custody of the kid and will likely get him cut before any court can decide on anything.
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#6 of 29 Old 05-17-2015, 04:35 AM
 
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well,That's SO disgusting. That poor poor woman and poor boy,thank you
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#7 of 29 Old 05-17-2015, 03:30 PM
 
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What kind of father willingly and knowingly hurts his child out of spite? That's what it is. I'm sure if you asked the boy, "Would you like part of your penis cut off?" he'd say no. But that a father would do this to a child he says he purports to love...
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#8 of 29 Old 05-18-2015, 04:46 PM
 
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What kind of father willingly and knowingly hurts his child out of spite? That's what it is. I'm sure if you asked the boy, "Would you like part of your penis cut off?" he'd say no. But that a father would do this to a child he says he purports to love...

I know !! Apparently the boy already knows what his father plans to do to him and has stated that does not want it. The poor tyke is likely terrified. I also have to ask what kind of judge would force this? Not a sane one, that's for sure.
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#9 of 29 Old 05-18-2015, 06:38 PM
 
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I just saw this issue today and came straight to Mothering to see if anyone had posted about it. Here's what I read: http://www.phillyvoice.com/heather-h...federal-court/

That's messed up that a judge would allow a father to cut the son to spite the mother. It makes no sense.

I don't have sons, but my husband is intact, so it has been interesting for me to research about the issue through the years. I remember the first time I asked him what if we had a son, and he was like, why would we do that? I'm intact. He was the only one I'd ever been with, so I never noticed (or knew the difference...), lol!

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#10 of 29 Old 05-21-2015, 11:05 AM
 
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It is unfortunate to hear of what happened. I was truly hoping that she would have left Florida as there was no further legal action that could have been taken in that state after the final verdict. If she was beyond state boundaries then Florida authorities would almost have never been able to touch her or Chance.

It does not have to be over. Many surgeons have backed out of doing the procedure so the best opportunity to stop it from occurring now is through the people of Florida themselves putting pressure on anyone who attempts to commit this act against Chance to stop them.
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#11 of 29 Old 05-21-2015, 12:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Renai View Post
I just saw this issue today and came straight to Mothering to see if anyone had posted about it. Here's what I read: http://www.phillyvoice.com/heather-h...federal-court/

That's messed up that a judge would allow a father to cut the son to spite the mother. It makes no sense.

I don't have sons, but my husband is intact, so it has been interesting for me to research about the issue through the years. I remember the first time I asked him what if we had a son, and he was like, why would we do that? I'm intact. He was the only one I'd ever been with, so I never noticed (or knew the difference...), lol!
Same situation. I follow circumcision stories because I know someday stories because if I ever have a boy my whole side of the family will act like I'm crazy for leaving him whole. I really can't imagine someone suggesting my daughter needs a body part cut off. I would freak out! Why would it be any different than my son. Especially after my dh is intact and in perfect health?
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#12 of 29 Old 05-21-2015, 02:44 PM
 
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You're right, it really doesnt make sense. Its horrifying.

Makes me glad I'm a single mother, and had noone trying to force a genital cut on a unconsenting minor with an unconsenting parent when my boys were 4....absolutely horrifying.

Im not hearing much from the intactivists though-no protests or anything...has anyone else?
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#13 of 29 Old 05-22-2015, 08:22 AM
 
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Im not hearing much from the intactivists though-no protests or anything...has anyone else?
I checked at Intact America - ( www.intactamerica.org ) who are on top of this. The last news story is dated 18th May. However there is a note that they don't want to jeopardize Heather Hironimus situation , being that she is in jail.
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#14 of 29 Old 05-22-2015, 11:10 AM
 
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Sadly, she just gave her consent whilst in shackles. She was threatened with indefinite imprisonment otherwise....(sorry, no link...)

(surely this counts as 'under duress'?)
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#15 of 29 Old 05-22-2015, 03:54 PM
 
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Typed out a more substantive reply this morning & my phone ate it. Here's a link: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/pa...522-story.html

Consent. She did not consent. This is madness. No other way to describe it.

Sus
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#16 of 29 Old 05-22-2015, 07:21 PM
 
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She looks very hungry and weak. I think this has been a horrible ordeal for her.
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#17 of 29 Old 05-23-2015, 02:33 PM
 
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Eventually the boy will be old enough to hold the father and the justice system accountable for what they did. Maybe he will be able to sue the father? I wonder if the father's lawyers have advised him of that risk. It seems negligent of the father to do this on an unconsenting minor, surely at this stage he has been made very aware of the risks of psychological injury. I smell a large lawsuit coming down the road.

It really is absolutely disgusting. Basically they're planning on strapping down, gassing, and performing a medically unnecessary surgery on an unconsenting minor.

Don't worry everyone. 4 year olds remember. This is all over the Internet. He will know the truth one day, he will understand it, and the father will be held to account.
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#18 of 29 Old 05-24-2015, 04:39 PM
 
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There's a petition at Change.org Please sign it!


https://www.change.org/p/florida-gov...t_created=true
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#19 of 29 Old 05-25-2015, 11:51 AM
 
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Thankyou for this link. The change.org petition summarizes the issues thoroughly and succinctly.

I was not aware that the boy himself, is actively against having the procedure. (hardly surprising, but you can imagine that he may have been brainwashed to believe this was actually in his interests)

Ie. the boy himself does not consent.

Someone asked the same question before, but I wonder why he does not have a lawyer?

I asked "where are the intactivists in all of this", in an earlier post.
It seems they have been behind the whole thing all along.
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#20 of 29 Old 05-25-2015, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thankyou for this link. The change.org petition summarizes the issues thoroughly and succinctly.

I was not aware that the boy himself, is actively against having the procedure. (hardly surprising, but you can imagine that he may have been brainwashed to believe this was actually in his interests)

Ie. the boy himself does not consent.

Someone asked the same question before, but I wonder why he does not have a lawyer?

I asked "where are the intactivists in all of this", in an earlier post.
It seems they have been behind the whole thing all along.
1) Does he not consent because he lives with his mom and she told him that the procedure would be awful and painful?
2) Does the law say that a 4 year old can "consent" or not consent to circumcision?
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#21 of 29 Old 05-25-2015, 04:41 PM
 
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A healthy child deserves all his body parts. A foreskin is standard issue for all human males... to be born without one is considered a birth defect. If you travel anywhere in the world, men are whole.

Welcome to Mothering! We are all for keeping children whole here!
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#22 of 29 Old 05-25-2015, 04:52 PM
 
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Why wasn't this child given a guardian ad litem? Poor baby.

Bring back the old MDC
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#23 of 29 Old 05-26-2015, 12:02 PM
 
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1) Does he not consent because he lives with his mom and she told him that the procedure would be awful and painful?
2) Does the law say that a 4 year old can "consent" or not consent to circumcision?

I admit that i dont know the law, but i can see that it needs to change when it comes to this particular case.

From the perspective of ethics, upon which all laws ought to be based (perhaps you disagree with that premise), any person ought to have the right to refuse a non medically necessary procedure, regardless of age. This especially in the case of dispute between the mother and father.

I believe that parents dont have the right to make this decision regarding a child's body in the first place.

Where do you draw the line? What other parts of a child's body do you think a parent should cut off if they so desire?

Which parts of the child's body do you think should remain intact?

Why dont you give us a list?
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#24 of 29 Old 05-26-2015, 12:04 PM
 
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Why wasn't this child given a guardian ad litem? Poor baby.
Apparently intactivists were behind much of this fight, and funded the mothers' lawyers. I dont know why they didnt push for this.
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#25 of 29 Old 05-26-2015, 12:37 PM
 
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In terms of the legal aspect i think that parents do have the right to make decisions about their child's medical care. This is why parents can decide whether to vaccinate, how to treat a child's cold, etc... What's unique about this situation is that the procedure is medically unnecessary. So, for example, if a 4 year old needed a life saving blood transfusion then the parents could consent on that child's behalf - even if the child was objecting - and to me this would be morally ok. But, in this situation, the procedure is medically unnecessary and the child is objecting, so i really don't see how it's ethical to go ahead. The reason that parents have the right to make medical decisions on behalf of young minor children is because we generally accept that young children aren't competent to assess all the risks/benefits. We need to be able to make these decisions out of respect for the fact that young children aren't capable of making them for themselves - when the treatments are medically necessary.
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#26 of 29 Old 05-29-2015, 11:16 AM
 
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I read a quote somewhere (sorry I don't have the link) that the judge said it was going to be done with a local anesthetic.
Current discussions in court only involve general anesthesia being used and not local.

"This is a potentially life-and-death situation," Hunker said, arguing the child doesn't respond well to general anesthesia and is prone to scarring that could further harm his genitals if he survives. He said the removal of the foreskin from the boy's penis is not "reversible" and violates his right to bodily "integrity."
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#27 of 29 Old 05-29-2015, 11:35 AM
 
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I read a quote somewhere (sorry I don't have the link) that the judge said it was going to be done with a local anesthetic.
That is even more disgusting. I can't believe this is the world we live in. That is so wrong.
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#28 of 29 Old 05-29-2015, 12:15 PM
 
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From what I've read, it seems they're holding her to this agreement, no matter what. New evidence that it could be more harmful than to most, doesn't matter. She changed her mind, doesn't matter. All that matters is she signed the agreement years ago. When cut men preside over such agreements, there seems to be little hope.

Sus
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#29 of 29 Old 05-31-2015, 10:48 AM
 
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1) Does he not consent because he lives with his mom and she told him that the procedure would be awful and painful?
2) Does the law say that a 4 year old can "consent" or not consent to circumcision?
The law does not say that amputating the foreskin from a child is legal. Nowhere in the world beyond Germany (as a result of legislative action following their supreme court declaring it illegal) is it legal to amputate the foreskin from a healthy child. As the law is based on technicalities cutting off the foreskin from an infant or child is no different then amputating their ear lobes or any other part of their body.Technically this is a very illegal thing to do, but practically it is not enforced in any meaningful way as a result of cultural pressures at this point.
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