The case FOR circumcision - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 114 Old 01-06-2016, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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The case FOR circumcision

This forum is about the case 'against' cutting, yet I am interested to understand the case FOR.

When I look down at myself in the shower, I wonder, why would anyone have a foreskin cut off willingly ?

I would very much appreciate suggestions as to why my not having a foreskin is better then when I did have a perfectly good one.

Please, to those of you who cut your sons or who are yourselves cut, be frank and honest. My own experience is very negative, but I really would appreciate insight into why it could be positive, what am I missing ? (so to speak). Am not looking to preach my experience, just to understand how others see it or live it in a good way. I could do with seeing some upside.

And as I have just come from the shower, please dont chant 'hygene' at me. To someone who can clean himself as and when he wants, that just doesnt wash !

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#2 of 114 Old 01-06-2016, 08:15 AM
 
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My hubby had BXO and it would not heal. It was very painful. He enjoyed having a foreskin before things went wrong with it in his 30s. It was not a decision he made lightly. He now enjoys sex without pain BUT there is decreased sensation. We have a son now and there is no way he would ever do that to a baby.
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#3 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 07:39 AM
 
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My hubby had BXO and it would not heal. It was very painful. He enjoyed having a foreskin before things went wrong with it in his 30s. It was not a decision he made lightly. He now enjoys sex without pain BUT there is decreased sensation. We have a son now and there is no way he would ever do that to a baby.
BXO has generally been the one condition that did warrant a circumcision because it is apparently quite difficult to treat. I have read that success has been achieved through the use of Carbon Dioxide lasers. Was your hubby offered this option to try?

The good news is that BXO is quite rare.
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#4 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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To the 2 posters above : Any upside or positive news to report on being cut ?
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#5 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hakunangovi View Post
BXO has generally been the one condition that did warrant a circumcision because it is apparently quite difficult to treat. I have read that success has been achieved through the use of Carbon Dioxide lasers. Was your hubby offered this option to try?

The good news is that BXO is quite rare.
We live in a fairly isolated community so we did not have to ability to access this treatment.

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#6 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 01:31 PM
 
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To the 2 posters above : Any upside or positive news to report on being cut ?
I asked my husband and he says no. He would rather have his foreskin back. The only upside is that it cured his condition. As for me his partner, I prefer the way it was as well. A foreskin moves during sex which is more comfortable for me, so we need a lot more lube than we used to. I realize as far as north american women go I am rare but most European women feel the same way I do.
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#7 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 01:49 PM
 
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To the 2 posters above : Any upside or positive news to report on being cut ?
I asked my husband and he says no. He would rather have his foreskin back. The only upside is that it cured his condition. As for me his partner, I prefer the way it was as well. A foreskin moves during sex which is more comfortable for me, so we need a lot more lube than we used to. I realize as far as north american women go I am rare but most European women feel the same way I do.

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#8 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 06:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JLUK View Post
This forum is about the case 'against' cutting, yet I am interested to understand the case FOR.

When I look down at myself in the shower, I wonder, why would anyone have a foreskin cut off willingly ?
If they're suffering from something that someone has convinced them circumcision will fix, then they'd be willing and perhaps grateful to be cut. Often, there exist less destructive alternatives that are not shared with patients.

One thing circumcision can cure is taunting from ignorant or non-compassionate folks, but the less-destructive alternative in that case would likely be to just cut those folks out of your life.
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HIS body, HIS decision.

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#9 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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ps, sympathise with the comment on lube. Never had to use it when complete, often need to now to avoid the feeling of rawness, really dont enjoy the stuff. The natural foreskin glide is just awesome for a man.
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#10 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 08:38 PM
 
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I personally am anti-circumcision that being said it can be a hygiene/health concern. I'll give 3 examples ranging from gross to medically valid.

1. In college, a friend called me freaking out about her uncircumsized bf. Post-sex and post-shower they were messing around again and he still had "funk" under the foreskin. Clearly no one had taught him or emphasized highly enough proper hygiene.

2. It is my understanding that the risk of contracting certain STI's like HIV/AIDS is increased slightly by having foreskin due to fluids being trapped in or small tears more likely. Something like that.

3. I personally know 2 families who had sons who had to undergo circumcision later in their youth due to recurrent infections. So not only did they end up undergoing circumcision anyway but they also had to deal with recurrent infections (frequent and severe).

I suspect for the vast majority of boys/men who practice good hygiene/safe sex it isn't an issue, but since you asked for reasons, I am throwing those out there.
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#11 of 114 Old 01-07-2016, 10:59 PM
 
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I don't know if this adds to your conversation or not, but circumcision is an integral element of a boy being welcomed into the Jewish community ( the bris ). I cannot imagine breaking with thousands of years of cultural tradition for my own sons, and frankly, I don't think it is a big deal when done young. I understand that it is a shock to go through as an adult. I'm sorry if my callousness hurts anyone's feelings, but I just don't see the magnitude of this issue compared, say, to the unnaturally high American C-section rates and accompanying health risks. If you're against it, don't do it. Why do you want to be convinced otherwise?
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#12 of 114 Old 01-08-2016, 03:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Why do you want to be convinced otherwise?

Am looking for some natural reasons why my not having a foreskin is better then when I had a perfectly good one. Religion is an aside, I'm not applying to get into a mosque or synagogue.


Hygene : America has high cut rates, and high STD rates compared to other developed countries. Somethings odd. For example Europeans, for all their foreskins, have Chlamydia rates 40 times lower than the US - what goes on over there ?


As I started with, hygene just doesnt seem to wash as a natural upside reason for cutting off a healthy foreskin, as other developed countries have evolved to accept medically, culturally and socially over the last 50 years (religious influences on those excluded). You are either a consciously clean person or you dont give a damn. If it isnt clean down there, then fingernails etc are probably in the same state. And when you see the rows of female intimacy hygene products in the shops, keeping that area clean is a challenge both sides share. Both sexes have bad odour etc experiences with the other. My wife is not perfect, but I dont send her off to the surgeon to remove her loose skin which does occasionally trap 'gunk'.


Or is the upside message that I really dont need to be so careful in my cleaning anymore, or use protection since there is less risk of infection (to me) ? by the way, I am more susceptible to tears now, given the reduced foreskin movement and increased friction/rawness. I am more exposed and feel more at risk.


The above posts are the classic social for/against arguments when looking down at a baby boy, and well versed. I was hoping for something with a bit more "happy man" upside, as I look down at myself - and then look to my future.


Telling me it would have been easier to get used to if I had it done young does not help much either - for example one would get used to the discomfort and handicap of growing up say without a thumb too if it had been cut off when a baby. I dont see the upside as a man in getting used to something which is less, whatever time in life it was removed. "Getting used to it" is consolation, not upside, it does not offer any "yippeee" factor.


'its no big deal' ? I magine the response to a thread from a man giving that view on female cutting, even the lowest grade (just labia removal), for hygene, religion or whatever. The pages of stories of 'regret' in this forum are testament to it being a big deal. I am far from being alone in seeking upside.
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#13 of 114 Old 01-08-2016, 07:02 AM
 
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To the 2 posters above : Any upside or positive news to report on being cut ?
I can't offer any upside at all. I was circumcised in infancy and the only time that I was ever totally at peace with it was prior to the age of six when I was oblivious to what had been done to me.
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#14 of 114 Old 01-08-2016, 07:27 AM
 
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I personally am anti-circumcision that being said it can be a hygiene/health concern. I'll give 3 examples ranging from gross to medically valid.

1. In college, a friend called me freaking out about her uncircumsized bf. Post-sex and post-shower they were messing around again and he still had "funk" under the foreskin. Clearly no one had taught him or emphasized highly enough proper hygiene.

2. It is my understanding that the risk of contracting certain STI's like HIV/AIDS is increased slightly by having foreskin due to fluids being trapped in or small tears more likely. Something like that.

3. I personally know 2 families who had sons who had to undergo circumcision later in their youth due to recurrent infections. So not only did they end up undergoing circumcision anyway but they also had to deal with recurrent infections (frequent and severe).

I suspect for the vast majority of boys/men who practice good hygiene/safe sex it isn't an issue, but since you asked for reasons, I am throwing those out there.
I have to comment on your last two reasons, since they are typically what the pro circ crowd throw out to validate their position.

2. All those so called studies that profess to prove that circumcision protects against HIV etc have been disproven. The sad fact is that, among first world countries, the U.S. has by far the highest percentage of circumcised males, yet also the highest incidence of HIV etc.

3. Infections in children are most often caused by bad advice from the medical profession. A foreskin is a self cleaning organ, and until at least puberty does not need to be retracted and "cleaned" underneath. It is perfectly designed to keep contaminants out and the preputial cavity is flushed out each time the boy pees. Urine is sterile until it exits the body. Retraction is only for sex. So I would be willing to bet that both those boys who "had to be circumcised" were victims of bad advice given to their parents. Also, like girls, the introduction of soap in the genitalia will often disrupt the normal balance of flora and cause irritation and odours. This, then often illicits more vigorous "cleaning" and the situation gets worse until some doctor advises them to amputate the unfortunate boy's foreskin. If they had left it alone in the first place, he would have been fine.

I like to quote the statistic from Finland, a non circumcising nation with exceptional health records: Only one man in over 16,600 will die without his foreskin. Clearly something is seriously amiss in the U.S. with such a high rate of 'medically indicated" circumcisions.
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#15 of 114 Old 01-10-2016, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Over 600 viewers have nothing positive to report ? I was expecting at least a little glimmer that there is something good in this for me

Post note : Delete request made - my sarcastic frustration to lack of response was pompous and inappropriate provocation
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#16 of 114 Old 01-11-2016, 09:47 PM
 
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Decreases the rates for STD transmission, penile cancer, and UTIs in men. I can't tell you how many foreskins I've retracted in a hospital setting to insert catheters, both 6 days old and 90 years old, and discovered prevalent smegma. Your tone is pompous, yet you could have googled these things and researched yourself. Instead you take 12 responses and 700 views as a universal answer. And truth is, there isn't. It's a cultural, religious, preference type of thing. My dad was circumcised after birth and so was I. My wife thinks uncircumcised penises are disgusting and completely unattractive. If I have a boy one day you can bet he'll be circumcised. I sure don't not have a good time with sex. Foreskin certainly has nothing to do with female lubrication and readiness when it comes to sex unless she has a specific preference. The idea of thrusting in my own inexistent foreskin to stimulate myself sounds gross and like I'm cheating myself when the entire time I'm rubbing on her with every thrust instead of a skin tube (Because I have no foreskin).

In the end it comes down to cleanliness. One man is not like the other 3,500,000,000 others.
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#17 of 114 Old 01-11-2016, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I have Googled STDs, just to get an approximate picture of hygene results. As you can see below, the off-the-scale rates in the US compared to other developed countries, despite its exceptionally high circumcision rates must suggest strongly that there is indeed a cleanliness issue going on, but that cutting is not helping, or protecting anyone effectively. US has a chlamydia rate of 1 per 250 persons, in Europe the average is around 1 per 10/15.000 despite its having a whole load more foreskins. Gonorrhea is also around 20 times more prevelant. Those arent small numbers or minor differences. Whatever the reason, people clearly arnt getting very good information or advice, and 50 yrs of cutting has not resolved much.


If you are poking around infected STD territory, its going to get into your penis pee-tube, where it sits and avoids cleaning, thats the main problem and it happens with or without a foreskin. And if you have washed after you poke, any infection bits on the outside are largely cleaned off, with or without a foreskin. Not being clean is the issue. Or what have I missed, in practical terms ? its a misleading and false sense of security to suggest cutting keeps you safer, as the stats, and common sense, point to.

Most women take time to keep their private parts clean. Its not that hard, if you respect yourself and your partner.

Is removing your foreskin, and still not cleaning, any better at keeping a man hygenic? is it OK for me to now say, "darling, I havnt washed, but its OK, as I dont have a foreskin".


Simple graph summary :


Europe - most men have foreskins, but STDs very low
USA - most men over the same period didnt have foreskins, but STDs abnormally high
Does the claim that cutting reduces STDs really stand, in practical terms ?



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#18 of 114 Old 01-12-2016, 10:07 AM
 
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Decreases the rates for STD transmission, penile cancer, and UTIs in men. It's a cultural, religious, preference type of thing. My dad was circumcised after birth and so was I. My wife thinks uncircumcised penises are disgusting and completely unattractive. If I have a boy one day you can bet he'll be circumcised. I sure don't not have a good time with sex.
Circumcision has nothing to to do with a decrease in rates for STDs etc. That is all hogwash propagated by a ignorant (of normal, intact male genitalia) medical profession in the U.S. in order to perpetuate a 1.5 billion cash cow.

You should watch the video "The Elephant in the Hospital", available on Youtube in order to understand that a foreskin is not "just skin", but a valuable organ in it's own right. It is rather arrogant to suggest that Nature/God (depending on your view of creation) made a mistake.

I hope your future son forgives you for what are planning to subject him to. You will not have the luxury of claiming ignorance as was the case in previous generations prior to the internet.

Your sex life might seem great now, but you have no idea what it might have been like had you been left whole, and studies have shown that, on average, an intact man's sex life extends 10 years longer that that of a circumcised man.

Culture is a powerful thing!
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#19 of 114 Old 01-12-2016, 11:46 AM
 
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To address the original question: As an American woman born in a generation when nearly all boys were circumcised, all of my sexual experience has been with circumcised men. I have generally found their penises visually and texturally appealing and sexually satisfying. That doesn't mean I think circumcision is a good idea (and I didn't do it to my son) or that I have purposely avoided uncut men, but my lovers' being circumcised has not been a problem for me except for the one poor guy who'd been cut too tightly. That's about as positive as I can get, and it doesn't give a good reason for removing a healthy foreskin--I don't think there IS a good reason for that--but I'm saying that the typical circumcised penis is an attractive and useful item.

JLUK: Washing your genitals after sex--male or female, intact or cut--has little to no effect in reducing the odds of catching an STD if you've just had sex with an infected partner. The difference in STD prevalence in the U.S. vs. Europe has much more to do with American attitudes that foster cheating and lying in sexual relationships and under-use of condoms, and with higher prevalence of STDs on this continent that began when our troops brought home new cases and new strains of bacteria to mix into the population after the world wars and Vietnam. I agree that comparing STD rates and circumcision rates in the U.S. and Europe sure doesn't show a benefit for circumcision, but that doesn't mean it proves the opposite case, any more than Europe's lower rates of teen motherhood prove that European women become fertile at a later age--they don't; they are more conscientious and better educated about safe sex than American women on average. The studies about STDs and circumcision that may have a valid point were conducted in Africa, which has high rates of both. It may be true that foreskin somewhat increases STD risk. Still, I'd rather teach my son to choose partners carefully and practice safe sex than have a healthy part of his body amputated, and I think that would be a wiser approach to public health in general.

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Is removing your foreskin, and still not cleaning, any better at keeping a man hygenic?
During recovery from the surgery, I'm absolutely certain it makes things worse. I shudder to think what it must be like to change the diaper of a newly circumcised boy. But once it's healed, yes, I would think it must be easier to clean just one layer of skin than to clean in between two layers. Again, I have no direct experience, as the only intact penis I've handled is my son's and only before he was retractable. But when I have watched intact men clean themselves in the shower, it looks simple to get really clean, and most of the process is accomplished simply by letting water run over the penis--so yes, I think the level of hygiene that could be achieved without really trying would be higher.

Overall, I don't think that there's much of a case FOR circumcision, but I also don't think you started this thread to be open to hearing about what case anyone might be willing to make, because you're slamming back hard at everyone who's said anything positive. I'm sorry you were circumcised.

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#20 of 114 Old 01-12-2016, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Please be assured there is plenty of lying and cheating going on over here too. Living in France, I sometimes wonder if its considered rude not to try.

i accept my inexperienced and frustrated posting tone can be inappropriate, but I am just trying to highlight painful inconsistencies between what I am told and what I am now seeing for myself. so I have tried to edit/delete my earlier responses accordingly, being credible with the time I invest discussing this issue is important to me.

From the OP start I specifically asked to avoid the hygene related discussion (ie smells, STDs, other later in life medical issues etc) as for me it did not really 'wash much' as an upside to a person who already had good hygene. I was very open that I was interested in alternative positive feedback. Accept the scold on my tone, but not my intentions, I was upfront and repeated the request.

But since hygene related issues have been more or less the only points raised so far, may I give my general observation : I just think its obvious that its not a particularly interesting benefit if you know from childhood that you have to clean yourself maticulously, foreskin or no foreskin. Thats how I was raised. you knew that if you dont look after it, you pay a hygene price in various forms in life, including losing it (the ultimate threat) and believe me after 45 yrs I confirm that its not that difficult to look after, if you are taught to care - for yourself, and your partner. And cutting it off does not remove or even reduce the need to care down there either.


I will agree that a dirty man with a foreskin is worse than a dirty man without one and will suffer or inflict hygene issues more - its obvious, but both are trouble as a partner. However a clean responsible man is just that, foreskin or no foreskin, with the right attitude and respect to himself and his partner, .

As a practical observation : since being cut I definitely sense I am lazier in cleaning myself down there and much less inclined to use a condom (since being cut I feel very little when I wear one now). Is my standard of hygene/sex care actually dropping, even though I thought I was pretty good ? Am I becoming subconsciously more distant in my relationship with my penis, and carefree ? I am certainly not closer to it. If thats common with some men cut from birth, its not a good practical result.


The parallels above between recent high STD rates and high cut rates in the active males over the same period cant be ignored or swept away lightly. So I wonder :
- do some men think 'Im cut, Im OK, no worries down there', resulting in an element of hygene carefreeness ?
- could this end up in being less responsible in sex too?
- is the low condom use levels you suggest linked, like it is for me, to reduced sensitivity ? note that I buy condoms extra thin, marketed as extra sensitive and optmised for circumcised men, so its a recognised issue.
- Does being around a cut penis give a girl a false sense of security?

Its just speculation, as I am far away and just looking at numbers. But the stats really raise the question that the hygene case from the Drs office - particularly the sexual hygene upside - is not translating into good sexual practice by cut men out in the field. Whats gone wrong ? It clearly questions mind sets. My thought is that its better for a boy to understand that he is responsible for cleaning his foreskin, because its really worth keeping, rather then taking it away. Its good general hygene and sexual awareness learning, which may be lost between boy and parent if they think they have dealt with the issue/conversation simply by cutting it off. Total speculation, I had girls. But between natural schoolboys, we all knew what we had to do down there. If cut men are also less inclined to use condoms, thats not good either. Bottom line, hygene is an obvious personal responsibility not to be compromised - foreskin or no foreskin, there should be no difference. Hence my request not to raise it in this thread.

Aesthetics ? : appreciate the goodwill behind the thought. Careful with your message, a well cut vagina with the loose skin removed may be much prettier too. Genital aesthetics is questionable social pressure for either sex. For the record, I felt I looked magnificent, sleek and mobile before, much praised by my wife - compared to the kinda chopped up and more fixed stump I now have. Its not been a pretty trade up, for me, and I really miss that full length glide.

Feel sorry for the "poor guy cut too tight". It would seem having an aesthetically pleasing and hygenic cut will be of little consolation to him. Its a real risk and unrepairable. Its a huge and unspoken negative.

So back to the beginning please: other than the highly personal hygene related stuff, is there anything else I can look to as upside ? and as I said in my OP, its a question loaded with doubt, based on what Ive experienced so far. But Im open, for my own sake.

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#21 of 114 Old 01-13-2016, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sorry you were circumcised.
Side note, to share a lesson from my toils : ladies please dont try pushing an erect penis downwards (towards his knees). Its not designed to go that way - under that pressure, it can 'pop' a vein. Its very very rare, but worth skipping some acrobatics to avoid.

Appreciate the sorry. I got unlucky one lazy afternoon with my lifelong partner. Im not looking for pity tho, I just want my bewilderment at my trip from one state to another to serve a useful informative purpose on this forum and to add some reality to a discussion that to me so often seems detached from it, full of theoretical misconceptions, easy maintenance of a baby and little on the longer term considerations.

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#22 of 114 Old 01-14-2016, 05:11 PM
 
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I have a friend who circumcised- there's a specific medical condition that causes hte need for circumcision as an adult that runs in both her and her husband's family. Because there's almost 100% certainty that their son will need to be circumcised, they decided it was a kindness to do it sooner.

There absolutely are medical conditions where circumcising is necessary, or that it reduces other problems.

But, yeah, don't get why they'd cut a healthy body part off a healthy body. Any other part and it sounds barbaric.

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#23 of 114 Old 01-14-2016, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sillysapling View Post
they decided it was a kindness to do it sooner.
Parents with past experience know best on such a tough call. The romantic in me thinks "its better to have loved and lost then never loved at all " (yeah, I loved my foreskin), but have to warn of the risk of the 'WTF?' confusion and mourning in your head once lost. That mourning is greatest if the foreskin was perfectly healthy and not giving any problems, as was my case. In the very few cases that it causes adult problems, like being too tight/causing repeated infections, the men I know have been OK with getting rid of it and digest the consequences fine.

This is off topic, but since its raised, may I share my experience :

Some men seem to have the ability to 'get over it' - especially if they gave consent. Other men less so. Looking back, thats been the painful part of the procedure, more so than the surgery itself. Most women I speak with, even in Europe, tend not to understand why it can be difficult - which adds to the frustration. "Its no big deal" to quote an earlier post. They do get it when you suggest it can feel, to the man, like the female emotional equivalent of having your nose cut short. Its there, in front of you, every goddam day.

Once you get used to the daily discomfort of having your gland exposed all the time (which is not fun, and contributes to it becoming numb with sensitivity loss) your are left to deal with the reality that having sex can become a whole different ball game - and underwhelming by comparison. For me that was the real loss. This thread was started in the hope of finding upside compensation for that.

The discussion between 'those that have' and 'those that never had' is also kinda blocked. When I had a foreskin I certainly avoided the conversation, for fear of upsetting. The discussion is usually rather futile anyway, each side tends to think theirs is best and neither side really knowing what the other is talking about. Its like 2 parallel universes.

The most revealing discussion on the subject would be between men who share the experience of being cut as adults. I am sure the whole issue would take a huge leap forward - if only in the sharing of relevant and credible information gathered from experience in both universes. But there are not many of us. And we tend to keep our heads down, the discussion with the outside world is rarely welcome, and always provocative. I applaud this forum for offering the opportunity to speak and share. I wish there were more cut-as-adult men, or partners of, on this forum to exchange with.

Last edited by JLUK; 01-15-2016 at 09:49 PM.
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#24 of 114 Old 01-15-2016, 01:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sillysapling View Post
I have a friend who circumcised- there's a specific medical condition that causes hte need for circumcision as an adult that runs in both her and her husband's family. Because there's almost 100% certainty that their son will need to be circumcised, they decided it was a kindness to do it sooner.

But, yeah, don't get why they'd cut a healthy body part off a healthy body. Any other part and it sounds barbaric.
Just curious what the condition was? Previous to your post I was never aware of a condition that affected foreskins that was hereditary.

Your last sentence typifies the general opinion in the U.S. What I don't understand is why cutting off a foreskin does not seem barbaric to most, if not all people. Once one steps back and views circumcision for what it is - cosmetic surgery on the genitalia of a baby - it can only be seen as bizarre.
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#25 of 114 Old 01-15-2016, 09:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sillysapling View Post
I have a friend who circumcised- there's a specific medical condition that causes hte need for circumcision as an adult that runs in both her and her husband's family. Because there's almost 100% certainty that their son will need to be circumcised, they decided it was a kindness to do it sooner.

There absolutely are medical conditions where circumcising is necessary
A) I would certainly want more details about such an exceedingly rare condition, and I'm flabbergasted that by sheer chance it happens to run in both the families of two people who just happened to marry.

B) Assuming the condition exists, one must question whether circumcision is in fact the best remedy. Perhaps less-destructive remedies were never investigated due to medical malpractice.

C) Even assuming adult circumcision was the best course in the past, the child has rights. Any decision that can be safely deferred until he can give rational informed input should be deferred.

D) ESPECIALLY in the case where adult circumcision may someday be needed, it is the height of arrogance to assume that no treatment breakthroughs will occur during the time between now and when treatment can no longer be postponed.

I ain't buying it.
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#26 of 114 Old 01-15-2016, 10:04 PM
 
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They do it because they can, and they do it to children on the basis that it will be permanent. These are the only reasons for it. The only way to put an end to this practice is to undue it. This will remove any reason or power associated with it and put the true damage of it in a place that is impossible to deny. I have and will continue to support Foregen to this end.
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Last edited by Mitchell756; 01-15-2016 at 10:10 PM.
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#27 of 114 Old 01-17-2016, 11:46 PM
 
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There are zero reasons for a healthy newborn to have his foreskin removed.
American's do it because:
1)it's what they know. They do it without thought. Some don't even know it's an option not to do.
2) They think it looks better/matches dad. As if what they like in a penis is important. I find it creepy.
3)They believe all the bunkum of so called health benefits which are all based on straw men that people have made up.
4)They do all of the above because they don't know the functions of the foreskin, the benefits it gives and so don't see value in it.

I see nothing positive in it at all only a child deprived of a healthy body part, whose rights have been violated. I guess some woman might iron out a few of their wrinkles using face cream made on baby foreskins, so a positive for them. Then of course the companies and Doctors are making money cutting them off and selling lube and later Viagra so win win win for them. Probably also keeps American urologists in business as they repair the botched ones.

I see American mothers cry over a tongue tie clip but hand their sons over willingly for a circumcision. makes no sense to me.

Last edited by joandsarah77; 01-17-2016 at 11:49 PM.
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#28 of 114 Old 02-09-2016, 08:49 AM
 
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My son is cut. It was something my husband and I agreed on from day one. I read a lot of information and all major medical groups suggest that it is not something the suggest universally for all babies they say it is a personal choice. Basically I found that there is no black or white answer. There are pros and cons to both sides. Contrary to what I was told in parenting groups there are still medical benefits to being cut there are studies to support it. However these issues are not common and can be avoided by proper cleaning. So basically everything lead me back to there is no right or wrong it's a personal choice for parents to make. It's between them and their doctor. At the end of the days it's not something you need to talk about it's a private decision.

The thing I hate is when people just assume I did no research and just went with the flow and that's absolutely not true. Even though my son is cut I did research. My research just found me in a place of the medical community is neutral on it. They don't tell you an answer one way or the other they are clear that it's a personal choice.
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#29 of 114 Old 02-09-2016, 05:59 PM
 
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I agree with the idea of allowing a child to decide. However from what I can tell from observing lots of infant circumcision, and reading up on the technique for adults, it is a more complicated procedure for adults, needing more anesthesia, and thus more risk.
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#30 of 114 Old 02-09-2016, 09:12 PM
 
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I agree with the idea of allowing a child to decide. However from what I can tell from observing lots of infant circumcision, and reading up on the technique for adults, it is a more complicated procedure for adults, needing more anesthesia, and thus more risk.
It only takes a 2.3oz blood loss for an infant to go into shock and potentially die.

Many infants receive no anesthesia or what they do get is inadequate compared to an adult who can be properly anesthetized, even knocked out if needed, and can also take follow up pain relief.

100+ baby boys die each year in the U.S. from circumcisions and circumcision complications. Not sure you can get more risk than that.
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