Originally Posted by Hunter
Is your family Jewish? The matter is quite simple to me. No rationalizations or "complexity" matter. It's condescending of you to suggest that my great ignorance of Judaism shelters my mind from some deeper understanding of how Jews tear apart infant penises and the great contemplations that led them there.
Here's a shocker, reform Jews circumcise their boys in secular facilities. Maybe the complexity is in why that matters.
As they say in that episode of that sitcom "Community" when Chevy Chase's character (a friendly but slightly racist character says "jew" the response is "use the full word"- Jewish.
My family is Catholic, but I grew up around a lot of Jewish families (and Catholic, and Protestants for that matter). Not really religious myself. But Jewish people have a very diverse set of beliefs, and I know this because thats been my experience being around Jewish communities. They certainly hold a united front when they need to, but there is CERTAINLY debate and discussion going on internally- just as there is in America.
I responded to you like I did, because I have to admit your response seemed overly forcibly focused on Trumps connections to the Jewish community, if him being American wasn't far more proof in itself. So it just seems odd, like you WANT to mark that as the negative element.
I don't know your intent, I don't know your experience with Jewish people, and I am sorry if I presumed anything. But the reality as we fight this fight for genital integrity we are dealing with a lot of complex issues of identity as well. We want to create our own label for this movement and not have one placed on us. Needlessly bringing up connections to Judaism just so you can point it out is a great way to gain the anti- semitic label placed on what is actually a human rights issue. We banned female circumcision without getting the anti islamic label, but that was through careful work.
But the truth of the matter in my experience is this- although its true that Jewish people use circumcision as a whole as a form of identity, I have seen far more Jewish people contribute to meaningful conversations on the topic then most other Americans who circumcise. The Jewish people view circumcision as a sacrifice, in a way they at the very least admit value in what the forcibly mutilate. While most Americans use their culture to devalue the very male bodily identity- they mark it as worthless, then they mutilate and THEN make money off that "worthless" foreskin in face creams.
As a man who was circumcised against my will, one of the worst parts is having your community, your family tell you indirectly through action that YOUR body does not have a value to them, to admit how you feel gets a response that YOU are the crazy one. The first time I felt sympathy and support for how I felt was from a Jewish person. "of course it has value! If it didn't have value, why would we sacrifice it to God!!"
I highly disagree with ANY culture that forcibly mutilates the bodies of children. No cutting culture is better or worse, and we shouldn't respond like it is. But for people who actually have been mutilated, having a culture or individual confirm the value you see in yourself is HUGE. Maybe thats something you just cant understand because you are whole.